Borderline Personality Disorder?

[Emilia]

As Downtown has said many times we all exhibit some of the symptoms. I want to learn for my future. Learn to be a more emotionally mature man. I also want to be less black and white in the future. Seeing how Black and white my ex is very educational. How she splits, projects, gaslights. I don't want to have a thought process in anyway like she has.

 

I think I can be more flexible in future, if I have a certain understanding behind some of the negative behaviours involved in BPD.

 

Quoted for truth. One thing I take away from dating someone and temporarily being friends with someone who is a BPD sufferer is that I am much more conscious of what another person internalises. I was much more prone to lashing out, stating my opinions without thinking about the other person's motivation behind their behaviour. I recognise that some aspects of my ex's behaviour is linked to his sensitivity, I am much more mindful of what I say and how to say it to someone else. And I think DBT is a great tool for anyone. I've definitely benefited long term, hopefully that will be the case for him too.

[Mack05]

Quoted for truth. One thing I take away from dating someone and temporarily being friends with someone who is a BPD sufferer is that I am much more conscious of what another person internalises. I was much more prone to lashing out, stating my opinions without thinking about the other person's motivation behind their behaviour. I recognise that some aspects of my ex's behaviour is linked to his sensitivity, I am much more mindful of what I say and how to say it to someone else. And I think DBT is a great tool for anyone. I've definitely benefited long term, hopefully that will be the case for him too.

 

See Emilia you are far more articulate than I am . Your entire post above summed up exactly what I was trying to say perfectly. This is one of my weakest area's. I don't always articulate very well and this can lead to poor communication.

 

Going to give the DBT self help website a good view this week.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Mack05

[Emilia]

See Emilia you are far more articulate than I am . Your entire post above summed up exactly what I was trying to say perfectly. This is one of my weakest area's. I don't always articulate very well and this can lead to poor communication.

 

Haha thanks. Wish it were always the case. I think everyone struggles with poor communication and understanding how that affects others at some stage in their life, which is why

 

Going to give the DBT self help website a good view this week.

 

this is such a good idea

[AlexDP]

Jesus, the rocket scientist has posted again.

 

Not that this is any of your business but he got in touch with me a month ago asked to meet up and to get together. I said no. Hence the conversation I had posted about to respond to carhill on the 2nd or 3rd page here.

 

My interest in PDs is related to my ex to a degree but there is something else behind it and you don't know anything about that because I've never posted about it.

 

Your presumption that you know it all is extremely irritating and makes you look less smart.

 

I don't understand how someone as intelligent as you can go on with this nonsense.

 

Either BPD means something and you act accordingly.

 

Or it means nothing and you act accordingly.

 

You guys just mix up elements and use whatever is in your best interest.

 

Either a person with BPD is extemely manipulate and good at sucking you in - which means you should stay away from him and don't think you're "special" and are going to be able to cope

 

OR

 

You don't believe any of it and are free to do what you want.

 

It's not: I believe he has BPD, I am intrigued, I want to know him.

Edited April 3, 2013 by AlexDP

[Emilia]

I don't understand how someone as intelligent as you can go on

 

Because you lack life experience

[Downtown]

Meaning it is a disorder defined by certain traits being on an exaggerated level in comparison to the mean average; right?

Yes, BPD traits (like all other PD traits) are basic human behaviors that generally arise from our primitive ego defenses and survival responses. We all have all nine BPD traits and, even in adulthood, we continue to occasionally exhibit them at an "exaggerated level," e.g., every time we get very angry or infatuated. Given their universal prevalence, we call these symptoms a "pattern of BPD traits" only when they are both strong and persistent.

So then, here is the thing. I have always had a lot of anger pent up inside me.

As you know, strong and persistent anger is one of the symptoms of BPD, not bipolar.

Then one day the dynamic just changed. I was still small and really weird, lol, and dorky looking. The change was in that I no longer ran, instead I responded to almost any threat with overwhelming and immediate force.

All abusive people who have strong BPD traits make that same switch -- just like you did -- at some point in their childhood. They learn how to switch from being defenseless children to being well defended children. They likely have to do this to survive their abusive childhoods.

 

I therefore do not think of BPDers as weak people. Rather, I think of them as strong people who are survivors. Unfortunately, the very behaviors and defenses that served them so well during the abusive childhood wreck havoc in their lives when they grow up and try to form healthy relationships outside that abusive home.

About a year ago... I began to experience mixed states for the first time, these from personal experience seem to be SUPER dangerous. Mania seemed to increase in frequency and length of episode. The total change in cycling however is confusing the crap out of me. Does this often occur? Has anyone heard of bipolar cycling doing this so suddenly?

Yes, bipolar-1 can be erratic and change cycles. My foster son, for example, cycled regularly for years and then went for four years without meds and without a problem. Then it started again and he resumed taking medication, which allowed him to be stable for 16 years. He then slipped into mania (which transformed to psychosis) about 2 months ago.

 

It apparently was triggered by his doctor's decision to reduce his meds by a third. But we don't know for fure. Because bipolar arises from changes in body chemistry, it is sensitive to any chemistry changes, such as changes in hormones or stress levels. This, at least, is my understanding, Harmony.

Recently however I have been building up on and anti depressant and a mood stabilizer. For a few months there I had neither. The anti-depressant was a recent addition and a new one since the introduction of lamictal. I must say, I feel way better.

My bipolar-1 foster son has taken lamictal. With that disorder, taking an AD alone can be dangerous because it can make the cycles more severe. It is important that the AD be combined with a mood stabilizer. This is why it is important for the physician to distinguish regular depression from bipolar disorder.

I fit BPD, but before the strange change in my condition, I fit about half. I did fit the criteria for higher functioning, but only barely.

Harmony, if you do suffer from strong BPD traits, it would not be surprising for many of them to be masked at times by your bipolar disorder. Bipolar-1 causes such wild swings between mania and depression that it can make it difficult to see some of the BPD traits.

So the earlier behavior at least was not affected by the diagnosis as they lied about its nature making sound like some sort of bipolar variant.

Perhaps so. It is well known, both inside and outside the psychiatric community, that therapists are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of his disorder (for his own protection). Moreover, when a client has both BPD and bipolar, it can take a long time for therapists to spot the BPD in the 50 minute meetings held once a week.

Basically read about being referred to as the kiss of death. The other popular opinion seemed to be that BPDers where just plain Evil.

That is utter nonsense. IME, many of the people who repeatedly attack BPDers and BPD discussions exhibit some strong BPD traits themselves -- e.g., the black-white thinking, irrational arguments, circular reasoning, and vindictiveness.

So I reasoned that by extension, I too was Evil. No excuse, just an evil worthless waste of flesh.

If you have strong BPD traits -- as you suspect -- that conclusion was not the result of clear reasoning but, rather, of reasoning that is heavily clouded by your intense feelings. BPDers typically are filled with self loathing and shame which have been carried with them since early childhood. This is why BPDers typically are far harder on themselves than on other people.

So why is it that there are one or two things off in BPD diagnosis? Big things, like the level of awareness. Also I am able to feel intimacy for long periods of time, but my behavior usually makes it unavailable.... I can also trust, albeit it literally takes years, but once you have it that is it; I will follow you to hell on a word.

Most people having strong BPD traits -- even those having full blown BPD -- do not exhibit all nine traits at a strong and persistent level. This is why the diagnostic criteria only require that five of the nine traits be present.

[HarmonyInDisonance]

Thank you Downtown. I mean really that had to take a little time to do. I am sorry to here about your son by the way. Slipping into psychosis is not good. I have experienced this during times of extreme mania. These were some of the worst episodes. In that state, I am liable to all out attack anyone trying to help me.

 

Well, then after looking around so far, it looks like I qualify for now.

 

It bugs me. I literally learned Java in a week. As in, I was able to go from "hello world" to server and client side programming in about 5 days. (Go mania right?) It is just frustrating. It is akin to having a car with 4000hp to the road, but it only steers in the direction it chooses. Your there, and you might get to work the throttle a bit, but in the end your just along for the ride.

 

I really appreciate it. I could not find anything on google describing such an abrupt change. This is likely because the engine kept thinking I mean changes in mood associated with bipolar behavior.

 

Just when I thought I at least had a handle on something.

 

I am learning about this as fast as possible, soaking up everything I can like a sponge. I am reading on mindfulness and find it fascinating. Buddhist meditation without the ritualistic or spiritual aspects. NEAT

 

EMDR is going to have to be done by someone else as since learning more about that I've realized that I can get stuck halfway in. Something we all hate am I right fellas? Ahem anywaaays

 

I am also going to take a new spin on that chart. I am going to make my own, as in here shortly. I am going to chart my energy, intellectual, and mood levels. I will use a scale of 1-10 and daily check my score. I will keep this data and at the end of the week plot it on a wave graph.

 

I am considering doing two charts for AM results and PM results.

 

Regardless of what exactly is going on in the old noggin, as someone here stated, sorry no quote in a hurry, everyone would do well to better regulate their emotions.

 

Thanks, real thanks to Downtown, Emilia, Mack, and everyone else. I got real actual information here. I will be honest I really don't know what the heck I was doing there for about 2 weeks. Can't reconnect to my logic process, can't remember the why to anything. Just seems like remembering something that someone else did. I don't shift blame though. I'm smart, I should have figured this out a long time ago. I wasn't looking though, I thought the problem was with the world not me.

 

Some of the most well spoken, written?, whatever, people that I am come across. IF the discussion boards at my old school had nearly this must vested input it would've been a blast instead of such a chore.

 

I can't say it enough thank you all, above all else I respect competence.

Many of you have it in spades as it where.

 

Now then, time for battle, I hear the enemy hosts stirring in their beds. They are about to launch their first wave.... In other words the kids are waking up!

Edited April 3, 2013 by HarmonyInDisonance
spelling, what else?

[Downtown]

I could not find anything on google describing such an abrupt change. This is likely because the engine kept thinking I mean changes in mood associated with bipolar behavior.

Harmony, if you have both BPD and bipolar-1, "mood change" is your middle name. Both of those disorders cause emotional instability. Indeed, BPD is the only PD (of the ten PDs) that is strongly associated with emotional instability. (Narcissists and sociopaths, for example, typically are very stable people.)

 

As I tried to explain above, the slow gradual mood changes generally are attributable to bipolar and the abrupt, event-triggered changes generally are due to BPD. In rare cases, however, bipolar can cause ultra-rapid cycling. My foster son, for example, sometimes would cycle every 15 minutes. That only happened, however, when his mania became so severe that he had transitioned into psychosis.

 

I've been with him through ten psychotic episodes. It always takes him two months to recover enough to be discharged from the hospital -- and several more months for his mind to fully clear. Some bipolar sufferers, however, do recover much faster than that from psychosis.

[Mack05]

Downtown you are awesome man. Seriously..

[HarmonyInDisonance]

Downtown you are awesome man. Seriously..

 

Seriously, if your not in school for this you might want to consider it. If you accumulated this much information without formal study, then, just damn.

 

You said 14 years, so you are probably at least as competent as I am in my own field, possibly more so.

 

Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living any way?

[Downtown]

Downtown you are awesome man.

Mack, thanks for the kind words. Actually, I'm just an excessive caregiver like you and I'm still working on building strong personal boundaries and not ignoring my own needs.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do for a living any way?

Harmony, I will be glad to share that with you in a PM. To discourage spam, the forum gives you PM priviledges only after you've been here a while or posted a certain number of messages -- or immediately if you you choose to be a contributing member. The forum FAQ does not specify how long or how many posts are needed to become "established," but I suspect you won't have to wait long at the rate you are now posting.

[HarmonyInDisonance]

I'll keep that in mind.

[AlexDP]

Because you lack life experience

 

Oh I lack life experience in many ways. Just not when it comes to this. You, Emilia, do.

[Emilia]

Hi Harmony,

 

I have seen your other thread, it will be interesting whether anyone responds but don't be discouraged if they don't. I think anything that complex doesn't usually get a good response rate.

[all_cats_rgray]

I feel alot of people jump on the bandwagon when it comes to this disorder.

 

I'v been to a therapist, and have been told " I could not diagnose you with BP, if I tried" " You have depression, that is all"

 

BUT

 

I live with the constant fear that i am BP. Because my mother was BP, and when I read the description of this disorder, I feel I can place my self as BP.

 

The only thing that keep's me sure that i'm not BP, is I never have manic episodes.

 

I have to ask the BP's here, what makes you different from a person with depression?

 

It's as if I want everyone here to say "Your not BP" My ex left when I was depressed, I think he feared I was BP, or that I would become BP, gahhh.

 

What's the difference between depression, and BP!

Edited April 4, 2013 by all_cats_rgray

[dreamingoftigers]

Mack, thanks for the kind words. Actually, I'm just an excessive caregiver like you and I'm still working on building strong personal boundaries and not ignoring my own needs.Harmony, I will be glad to share that with you in a PM. To discourage spam, the forum gives you PM priviledges only after you've been here a while or posted a certain number of messages -- or immediately if you you choose to be a contributing member. The forum FAQ does not specify how long or how many posts are needed to become "established," but I suspect you won't have to wait long at the rate you are now posting.

 

PM privileges come at one month AND 50 posts.

[dreamingoftigers]

Do you mean bi-polar or Borderline Personality Disorder?

 

They are quite different.

 

I feel alot of people jump on the bandwagon when it comes to this disorder.

 

I'v been to a therapist, and have been told " I could not diagnose you with BP, if I tried" " You have depression, that is all"

 

BUT

 

I live with the constant fear that i am BP. Because my mother was BP, and when I read the description of this disorder, I feel I can place my self as BP.

 

The only thing that keep's me sure that i'm not BP, is I never have manic episodes.

 

I have to ask the BP's here, what makes you different from a person with depression?

 

It's as if I want everyone here to say "Your not BP" My ex left when I was depressed, I think he feared I was BP, or that I would become BP, gahhh.

 

What's the difference between depression, and BP!

[all_cats_rgray]

Do you mean bi-polar or Borderline Personality Disorder?

 

They are quite different.

 

Im reading up on them and yeah. I didn't know.

 

I can't shake this fear that I have BPD.(not bi-polar) I guess if you have BPD, you would know that you do?

[dreamingoftigers]

Im reading up on them and yeah. I didn't know.

 

I can't shake this fear that I have BPD.(not bi-polar) I guess if you have BPD, you would know that you do?

 

Erm.... Depends on your level of functionality I guess.

 

It resonated with me when I read it.

 

But others can't see themselves with it even though they have the worst cases.

 

I would go to a psychiatrist. Or if you have an extra $2400, the Amen Brain Clinic. They overturn A LOT of errant diagnoses.

 

I wouldn't trust any everyday counselor to make a decision regarding that.

[HarmonyInDisonance]

Oh I lack life experience in many ways. Just not when it comes to this. You, Emilia, do.

 

I've calmed down now, and while I'm sure your going to say something negative in reply, you need to know this.

 

It's not your opinion that annoys people, it's your hardheaded assumption that you cannot be wrong. Or perhaps I assume overmuch. At any rate, you cannot make a bold declaration that you KNOW anything about anyone here. In person maybe your justified, assuming you know the person well enough. It has been my experience, not that you would believe anything I say, that a rounded individual, is just that ROUNDED. Equal portions of compassion, logic, aggression, assertion, physical fitness, understanding, deduction, and about a 100 others things make a balanced person. Being strongest in any one trait does not make you any better, or any more apt to know people's hearts.

 

Life experience ROUNDS people out, BALANCES them. It's the path to realizing the true potential of the human race.

 

In Emilia I see more traits in a more balanced proportion to one another. You however are only displaying that you are going to be right no matter what.

 

I don't understand why people who ride bikes for exercise wear clothing that makes them streamlined when the point is exercise. More resistance covers that without dressing like a space gymnast. I don't think it is wrong though, it's their business.

 

Crazy, a liar, it doesn't matter what I am or what anyone thinks I am, my earlier statement is accurate.

 

You defeat the purpose of this forum. It is a self help forum. In a spiritual category. Are you spiritual in any way. So far I have only seen you stir up strife and discontent.

 

I think your trolling, but I am not just going to force it on you by making bold end all "I am God himself" declarations about it.

 

Some people once made bold declarations that flying would never be possible that it was just a nonsense idea, magic so to speak. I for one am glad the Wright brothers we not discouraged by hardliners.

 

Just asking, what EXACTLY is your purpose here?

 

I'll wait to see what brilliant ideas you bring to the discussion this time, then it's ignore for you, unless of course you suddenly come up with a good reason for any of this aside from pissing people off and making them feel shamed.

[HarmonyInDisonance]

Hi Harmony,

 

I have seen your other thread, it will be interesting whether anyone responds but don't be discouraged if they don't. I think anything that complex doesn't usually get a good response rate.

 

Why thank you for your interest. Actually I have some major updating and streamlining to do. I have added much more material since in another forum. I am also running my research thread in several others for diversity of input.

 

Here's the fun part though, it's actually getting a lot of attention. As in I am surprised at the number of useful responses I am getting.

 

I have contacted Dr.Linehan's office as it where. I spoke with her secretary and was told she would pass along my message. I was given her email and told to send in a summary of my thesis.

 

I know she is a verrrrry busy lady, but I will keep trying as long as it takes. Here shortly I must begin contacting local inpatient facilities in order to discuss the possibility of collaboration. It makes sense, inpatient BPDers are all subject to the same diet and daily activities. In addition to this we need pure BPDers, ie no comorbid disorders so as to avoid the metabolic interference caused by certain medications.

 

I'll update it later. I am excited, its going to be a busy day.

 

Thanks again for checking it out. I know this isn't the place for it, but I think the large amount of BPD and non-BPD input will be useful, even if it is not clinically applicable. Okay, I am just stopping myself here lest I end up going into real detail lol.

Edited April 4, 2013 by HarmonyInDisonance

[HarmonyInDisonance]

I added all the new stuff to my research thread if anyone wants to check it out. Shoo, I have been in front of this thing for three days.

[Emilia]

I added all the new stuff to my research thread if anyone wants to check it out. Shoo, I have been in front of this thing for three days.

 

So I see. Will have a read through over the weekend after a strong coffee

[AlexDP]

I've calmed down now, and while I'm sure your going to say something negative in reply, you need to know this.

 

It's not your opinion that annoys people, it's your hardheaded assumption that you cannot be wrong. Or perhaps I assume overmuch. At any rate, you cannot make a bold declaration that you KNOW anything about anyone here. In person maybe your justified, assuming you know the person well enough. It has been my experience, not that you would believe anything I say, that a rounded individual, is just that ROUNDED. Equal portions of compassion, logic, aggression, assertion, physical fitness, understanding, deduction, and about a 100 others things make a balanced person. Being strongest in any one trait does not make you any better, or any more apt to know people's hearts.

 

Life experience ROUNDS people out, BALANCES them. It's the path to realizing the true potential of the human race.

 

In Emilia I see more traits in a more balanced proportion to one another. You however are only displaying that you are going to be right no matter what.

 

Emilia. HID.

 

Read this post. Now read earlier posts of Emilia. Can you both see that this is mirroring? You're fond of him, because he mirrors you, Emilia. He rephrases your opinion and presents it as his own. I'm sure he'll deny this and say that he too thought this, but who knows if he did? And if he has BPD and one symptom of BPD is mirroring people, why assume that he isn't mirroring you now?

 

This is where my problem lies with you folks. You know he has BPD, yet when he displays the behaviour that goes along with it, you just ignore it altogether. Either you say he has BPD and you realise that his behaviour is a direct consequence of this or you just dismiss BPD altogether. Not a match. Never a match. That's what gets you in toxic behaviours.

 

Am I arrogant? Probably. But I also notice that I'm the only on in here who is able to make this distinction.

Edited April 5, 2013 by AlexDP

[Emilia]

Emilia. HID.

 

 

It doesn't matter whether you are right or wrong Alex. This arguing is dysfunctional. Please stop. I ignored your previous post, only read this because I clicked on it without being signed in first, otherwise I wouldn't have read it.

 

I don't like ignoring you because it seems really impolite and rude to do that when you are trying to engage me and I never ignore people in real life.

 

However, it makes me feel uncomfortable that I am arguing with a complete stranger I have never met in my life over - let's face it - non-consequential stuff.

 

Please stop.