Borderline Personality Disorder?

[AlexDP]

I wouldn't wish BPD on my worst enemy.

 

See, I wouldn't wish schizophrenia on my worst enemy. BPD? They do it to themselves, time and time again. They deserve every bit of it.

 

And unless we face that reality, we are just going to let personality disorders grow. BPD doesn't start with a mother abandoning her child. It starts with a mother pampering it.

 

People with schizophrenia can't help themselves. People with BPD can, but blatantly refuse to do so. They should be held accountable. No pity whatsoever.

[M30USA]

See, I wouldn't wish schizophrenia on my worst enemy. BPD? They do it to themselves, time and time again. They deserve every bit of it.

 

And unless we face that reality, we are just going to let personality disorders grow. BPD doesn't start with a mother abandoning her child. It starts with a mother pampering it.

 

People with schizophrenia can't help themselves. People with BPD can, but blatantly refuse to do so. They should be held accountable. No pity whatsoever.

 

As harsh as Alex's opinion sounds, I believe he is right. All of my experiences in life, personal and witnessed, lead me to this conclusion.

 

To those who buy into the academic view which says we need to love them, protect them, and "understand" them...why do the very people who espouse this view (ie, pyschologists and counselors) eved ADMIT that the recovery rate for BPD is abysmally low? Yet they refuse to consider the "harsh" view of Alex. Why? Because there's no money involved and because it's considered "abusive" or "neglectful" by the masses. Well, who cares what you call it if it works and helps the person in the long run. Sometimes a person needs to get a good lesson learned the hard way.

Edited March 26, 2013 by M30USA

[Mack05]

See, I wouldn't wish schizophrenia on my worst enemy. BPD? They do it to themselves, time and time again. They deserve every bit of it.

 

And unless we face that reality, we are just going to let personality disorders grow. BPD doesn't start with a mother abandoning her child. It starts with a mother pampering it.

 

People with schizophrenia can't help themselves. People with BPD can, but blatantly refuse to do so. They should be held accountable. No pity whatsoever.

 

I think this is harsh Alex. If you research BPD, childhood abuse is nearly always mentioned. If their emotions at times are equivalent to big children, it's because that is what they grew up with. My ex had an alcoholic abusive father, a codependent mother and a horrible childhood in general. This is a lot to overcome.

 

She managed to get out of that situation to her credit, but has gotten herself entangled in toxic relationship, after toxic relationship. Can you blame her Alex? She has never been shown proper guidelines.

 

Apparently she has one perfect relationship, but I am very sure the reality is very different from the fantasy.

 

I tried to open her eyes, but that was very stupid of me. Her reactions are what you would expect from someone with BPD (i.e. don't go there). I have huge sympathy for her because the person she doesn't want to be, she is. She hated the abuse dished out by her father, but if she abused me 'I made her do it'. I said to her once, what if your father gave you that same excuse? The person she doesn't want to be, is who she is. That is a very sad irony for me.

 

In her head of someone doesn't annoy/hurt her then there is no problem. If that happens its 'easy'. She is mentally ill. She didn't ask to be this way. Her father came from an abusive background and passed it down to his kids. She has been unable to break the cycle cause it's hard! Very hard. I have never walked a mile in her shoes and because of that she will always have my care, good wishes and sympathies.

[M30USA]

Just stumbled across this article:

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/matter-personality/201109/the-family-dynamics-patients-borderline-personality-disorder

 

It describes the situation with my ex-wife and her family dynamics with pin-point accuracy.

[Mack05]

Just stumbled across this article:

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/matter-personality/201109/the-family-dynamics-patients-borderline-personality-disorder

 

It describes the situation with my ex-wife and her family dynamics with pin-point accuracy.

 

Yep, describes my ex's personality and her family dynamics perfectly too. Every person who has had a relationship with a BPDer just nods along to articles like these.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Mack05

[M30USA]

Yep, describes my ex's personality and her family dynamics perfectly too. Every person who has had a relationship with a BPDer just nods along to articles like these.

 

This also explains why, after several years of trying to get her family/parents to "see" what was going on, I realized I was wasting my time. Their whole family unit was acting in sync to preserve the family homeostasis and, thereby, preventing any improvement in her BPD.

[AlexDP]

I think this is harsh Alex. If you research BPD, childhood abuse is nearly always mentioned. If their emotions at times are equivalent to big children, it's because that is what they grew up with. My ex had an alcoholic abusive father, a codependent mother and a horrible childhood in general. This is a lot to overcome.

 

She managed to get out of that situation to her credit, but has gotten herself entangled in toxic relationship, after toxic relationship. Can you blame her Alex? She has never been shown proper guidelines.

 

How do you know she had an alcoholic abusive father? Tell me. Did she tell you? And are you saying that no one has ever overcome an abusive father?

 

No. She does it to herself.

 

The relationships are toxic, because she is toxic. Stop defending her. It's her own damn fault. They are the worst of the worst and should be treated as such until they better themselves.

[Mack05]

How do you know she had an alcoholic abusive father? Tell me. Did she tell you? And are you saying that no one has ever overcome an abusive father?

 

No. She does it to herself.

 

The relationships are toxic, because she is toxic. Stop defending her. It's her own damn fault. They are the worst of the worst and should be treated as such until they better themselves.

 

Of course she told me! What you think I did guess! Dude I will NEVER see the world in a black and white view that you do. To call her the worst of the worst is ridiculous. I wasn't perfect, far from it. It's a two way thing. So if I made mistakes in the relationship does that make me the worst of the worst?

 

I choose to improve myself. I forgave her and hope she ends up really happy. Stuck being bitter about her, what does it achieve? Nothing...

[AlexDP]

Of course she told me! What you think I did guess! Dude I will NEVER see the world in a black and white view that you do. To call her the worst of the worst is ridiculous. I wasn't perfect, far from it. It's a two way thing. So if I made mistakes in the relationship does that make me the worst of the worst?

 

I choose to improve myself. I forgave her and hope she ends up really happy. Stuck being bitter about her, what does it achieve? Nothing...

 

 

So if you know one thing about people with BPD, what is it? That they tell the truth?

 

She told you. It's a 99% chance that she lied. I really wouldn't base my beliefs on the odd chance that she told the truth. She says her father is an abusive drunk, but he could just as well be an angel.

 

I'm not saying you should be bitter about her. You should never be bitter. But it's not a disease. It's barely a disorder. It's just some girl with an entitlement complex who never figured out that the world didn't resolve around her. At some point, people should just tell people with BPD: hey, guess what? Go **** yourself.

 

If we all did that, and in fact there are therapists who do just that, BPD would disappear.

[Mack05]

I know her perception of events is very different to that of a non BPD and I see your point, but I would be stunned if she wasn't telling the truth about her father. I mean if he wasn't an abusive piece of thrash, where did she pick it up from?

[M30USA]

What I found highly interesting in that previous article I posted by Dr. David Allen is that he frequently saw how BPDers were able to "switch on and off" almost all of their behaviors AT WILL. In his professional opinion--and he admits he differs from mainstream psychiatry--he believes that BPDers CHOOSE to behave that way, rather than fall victim to the pathology. If he is correct, then the treatment approach should be completely different than what we currently have; more akin to what Alex has been recommending.

Edited March 26, 2013 by M30USA

[orionboxing]

Here is my brief marriage experience with a woman who met almost all the criteria of a individual with BPD. Please DO NOT be offended by what I'm writing...this does not classify all...

 

1. Intense courtship. We worked together...and she would follow me out of the building each day. Found me online, basically sort of stalked me and asked me out...eventually I gave in to her. Sex was amazing and intense. She seemed to be everything I was looking for. BPD's are exceptionally convincing people and are able to play emotions correctly to get what they want. They prefer nice, wholesome people who they feel they can control.

 

2. Beautiful wedding. I'm still in her idealization phase. Nothing can go wrong...honeymoon phase....bought a brand new home....new cars...got a dog.

 

3. Wants a child immediately to continue the honeymoon phase. I object and stand my ground. It is the first time she has lost control of me leading into a devaluation phase where she suffers from depression, picks fights with me, binge eats, withholds sex for months, and displays wild mood swings. I am blamed, hated, and criticized for such things as drying the dishes improperly.

 

4. I ask for a divorce. 3 year marriage over. In a week I'm immediately painted black, and she treats me now like I do not exist. No emotional connection to me at all...off like a switch...white to black. Will not return emails. This was a person I loved for 5 years and I'm instantly forgotten. I would come to her for closure and sympathy to help us along, but any one-on-one interaction is cruel and a chance for her to inflict pain. She is in relationship with someone 2 months after we are officially divorced, a point she made to tell me when we met face to face for what will probably be the last time. This was her final dagger on the way out.

 

The pain of my divorce was devastating. To be hated so instantly, and for her to rebound so fast showed absolutely no emotional depth or class.

 

Knowing that she will repeat the cycle again....and that she has a mental illness has made my acceptance phase a bit easier. But that still doesn't mask the fact that I really did love her. To her, I was simply an object.

[Mack05]

Yeah they are a bunch of horny devils those BPDers! My ex wanted to take me to strip clubs! Bring a girl back to a hotel, while she hooked up with her and I watched! What's even more nuts, we had never even personally met!

 

She had a sex drive on a completely other level then any other girl I have ever met. I know that there is an explanation for BPD and high sex drive, but I forget what it is..

[Mack05]

To be hated so instantly, and for her to rebound so fast showed absolutely no emotional depth or class.

 

Knowing that she will repeat the cycle again....and that she has a mental illness has made my acceptance phase a bit easier..

 

I think every single person who has even been with a BPD partner can relate to that quote above..

 

What I find incredible is when my ex's current relationship fails (and it's a when) she will just repeat and repeat. It boggles the mind how such a logically intelligent woman can be so emotionally dumb...

 

I am just so happy that I can't relate to or understand the thought process's and behaviours of a BPDer..

Edited March 27, 2013 by Mack05

[M30USA]

It boggles the mind how such a logically intelligent woman can be so emotionally dumb...

 

I always thought the partner of the BPDer becomes numb from the constant chaos and rollercoaster ride--not the BPDer themself. BPDers are usually chock full of emotions. The only problem is they are volotile and unpredictable.

[Downtown]

BPD? They do it to themselves, time and time again. They deserve every bit of it.

No, Alex, they don't. The psychiatric community generally agrees that BPD is a thought distortion that is firmly entrenched in the BPDer's thought process and self image during early childhood, usually before age five. As the Mayo Clinic explains, "Personality is shaped both by inherited tendencies and environmental factors, as well as experiences during childhood." See Borderline personality disorder: Risk factors - MayoClinic.com.

 

The result is that the child is stuck with the emotional development of a 4 year old unless he later undergoes years of therapy to learn the emotional skills that other people have learned in childhood. Hence, it makes no sense to argue that a 3- and 4-year-old children are choosing to "do it to themselves," as you say.

BPD doesn't start with a mother abandoning her child. It starts with a mother pampering it.

No, there is no evidence that "pampering" causes BPD. On the contrary, a recent study of about 35,000 adults (pub. 2008) found that 70% of BPDers report they had been abandoned, emotionally abused, physically abused, or sexually abused during childhood. The study says nothing about "pampering." See Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.

 

Similarly, the Mayo Clinic explains that the general view is that BPD likely is caused by a combination of three factors: hereditary predisposition, childhood abuse, and neglect. (See Mayo Clinic link above.) Significantly, "pampering" is nowhere on that list.

 

Studies have shown that childhood sexual abuse is strongly associated with the development of BPD. That is, it greatly raises the child's risk of developing this disorder. My BPDer exW, for example, had been sexually abused by her own father for years in childhood. Both of her two sisters also were sexually abused by him. All three of them exhibit strong BPD traits. When my exW got old enough to fend off her father's sexual advances, he stopped the sexual abuse but started beating her. Yes, this has been verified by many members of that family.

People with schizophrenia can't help themselves. People with BPD can, but blatantly refuse to do so. They should be held accountable. No pity whatsoever.

Alex, I agree that BPDers should be held fully accountable for their own behavior -- by allowing them to suffer the logical consequences of their actions. Otherwise, they will have no incentive to seek therapy and learn how to develop more mature ego defenses.

 

That said, I find your view of BPDers to be so black-white that it would make any BPDer proud. In trying to paint BPDers as all-black -- e.g., claiming they "do it to themselves" and they deserve "every bit of it" and "no pity whatsoever" -- you are exhibiting the same "all-or-nothing thinking" that BPDers are notorious for. This is not to say that you are a BPDer but, rather, that WE ALL have to be ever vigilant to avoid slipping into black-white thinking. It is very easy to do, especially when our feelings on an issue are strong enough to distort our perception of other peoples' intentions.

 

The reality is that BPD is an extremely painful disorder to have -- so painful that many BPDers routinely cut themselves with knives and razors. They find that the external pain provides relief from the far more hurtful internal pain.

[Downtown]

Here is my brief marriage experience with a woman who met almost all the criteria of a individual with BPD.... To her, I was simply an object.

Orion, if you are correct about her having strong BPD traits, it is unlikely she viewed you as "an object." That's what narcissists and sociopaths do because they are incapable of loving anyone and they have no affective empathy. In contrast, BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits) are capable of loving (albeit in an immature way). They also can have strong affective empathy, i.e., the ability to sense what other people are feeling.

 

What BPDers don't have is emotional stability or a strong sense of who they are. They therefore are very intolerant of uncertainties, mixed feelings, and ambiguities. The result is that they will shoehorn everyone into a black or white box so they know how to deal with them. This is why BPDers tend to categorize everyone as "all good" (with me) or "all bad" (against me). And this is why a BPDer will flip back and forth between loving you and devaluing you.

 

This means that, even though a BPDer may love you deeply, she is incapable (absent years of therapy) of being in touch with that love all the time. Indeed, while she is "splitting you black," a BPDer is only in touch with her dislike or hatred of you -- the loving feelings are split off, i.e., put out of reach of the conscious mind.

 

This is why BPDers are capable of being so hateful and vindictive to the very people they love the most. The irony of this situation is especially apparent in the high functioning BPDers, many of whom are caring and generous all day long to strangers and business associates -- and then will go home to abuse the very people who love them.

 

Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD, if their biographers are to be believed. Reportedly, they were very generous and caring of total strangers but were abusive to the people who loved them. This, at least, is my understanding of BPDers, Orion.

[BUBS]

I have just recently began looking into borderline personality disorder and realized as a psychology major that I absolutely have it. It's almost the missing puzzle piece that I've been looking for since I began devoting myself to psychology in order to understand what was wrong with me. I was diagnosed with anxiety when I was younger, but stopped treatment when I ran out of health insurance. I assumed my erratic behavior, and more importantly my issues with over analyzing, holding on, rejection, terrible self image, and failure stemmed from a mix of depression, anxiety and just what all go through in their twenty's and teens... Unfortunately I'm slowly beginning to realize that I do not cope or handle situations like this, and that I have bpd. This throws me for a loop as treatment for it is certainly out of my financial ability. Has anyone learned coping mechanisms for this outside of expensive therapy... or does anyone have any information on coping from it that they learned from therapy?

[M30USA]

I have just recently began looking into borderline personality disorder and realized as a psychology major that I absolutely have it. It's almost the missing puzzle piece that I've been looking for since I began devoting myself to psychology in order to understand what was wrong with me. I was diagnosed with anxiety when I was younger, but stopped treatment when I ran out of health insurance. I assumed my erratic behavior, and more importantly my issues with over analyzing, holding on, rejection, terrible self image, and failure stemmed from a mix of depression, anxiety and just what all go through in their twenty's and teens... Unfortunately I'm slowly beginning to realize that I do not cope or handle situations like this, and that I have bpd. This throws me for a loop as treatment for it is certainly out of my financial ability. Has anyone learned coping mechanisms for this outside of expensive therapy... or does anyone have any information on coping from it that they learned from therapy?

 

You know what they say about pyschology majors...

 

[orionboxing]

Orion, if you are correct about her having strong BPD traits, it is unlikely she viewed you as "an object." That's what narcissists and sociopaths do because they are incapable of loving anyone and they have no affective empathy. In contrast, BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits) are capable of loving (albeit in an immature way). They also can have strong affective empathy, i.e., the ability to sense what other people are feeling.

 

What BPDers don't have is emotional stability or a strong sense of who they are. They therefore are very intolerant of uncertainties, mixed feelings, and ambiguities. The result is that they will shoehorn everyone into a black or white box so they know how to deal with them. This is why BPDers tend to categorize everyone as "all good" (with me) or "all bad" (against me). And this is why a BPDer will flip back and forth between loving you and devaluing you.

 

This means that, even though a BPDer may love you deeply, she is incapable (absent years of therapy) of being in touch with that love all the time. Indeed, while she is "splitting you black," a BPDer is only in touch with her dislike or hatred of you -- the loving feelings are split off, i.e., put out of reach of the conscious mind.

 

This is why BPDers are capable of being so hateful and vindictive to the very people they love the most. The irony of this situation is especially apparent in the high functioning BPDers, many of whom are caring and generous all day long to strangers and business associates -- and then will go home to abuse the very people who love them.

 

Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD, if their biographers are to be believed. Reportedly, they were very generous and caring of total strangers but were abusive to the people who loved them. This, at least, is my understanding of BPDers, Orion.

 

 

OK, so maybe I wasn't an object to her. But the rest of what you wrote described my ex-wife perfectly.

 

Yes, no real sense of who they are! I believe this is why she jumped to a new relationship so quickly. Another person justifies her reason for existing - she needs this for validation. She never wanted to work on herself, thus an endless cycle of failed relationships, because she cannot contribute anything meaningful herself.

 

No real sense in that she had no real hobbies or interests outside of marriage. Was content just watching TV and staring at Facebook, and couldn't understand my passion for any activity outside of us.

 

I did notice that my wife had very little friends. After years of splitting them white or black and most of them chose not to stick around.

 

Also, her profession was staffing and human resources. She would be on her best behavior at all times in the office and in social situations while greeting and interviewing new hires, and turn into an absolute monster in the comfort of our own home. I always got the very worst of her, where my job always got pretty much the worst of me!

 

What most don't know is that separating from loved one with BPD is one of the toughest things you can possibly do. Your life becomes a constant game of trying to placate someone who can never be truly satisfied. You get completely wrapped up in this game, fully invested in their lives and trying to "fix" the problems. It is a huge emotional investment for the non-BPD, and when it's over it is both relief that you will no longer have to suffer, and extremely painful because they have become your entire life and they leave you feeling like you never meant a thing to them.

[Emilia]

What most don't know is that separating from loved one with BPD is one of the toughest things you can possibly do. Your life becomes a constant game of trying to placate someone who can never be truly satisfied. You get completely wrapped up in this game, fully invested in their lives and trying to "fix" the problems. It is a huge emotional investment for the non-BPD, and when it's over it is both relief that you will no longer have to suffer, and extremely painful because they have become your entire life and they leave you feeling like you never meant a thing to them.

 

Yes we have all experienced this, it is why reactions of former partners of BPD sufferers can be so strong, hence my warning to the original poster in my first post on the thread

 

You are not alone, we have all gone through this: the walking on eggshells, spending months or in some cases years trying to work out what it was that we said or did that shut us out of our partner's life. The answer is that it's all in her mind, her cognition, her thought process, her inability to process ambiguity and shades of grey in the people she is close to.

 

Interesting what you wrote about your ex's lack of hobbies/interests, that was my experience also. I was always very surprised by this considering how bright and generally curious my ex is.

 

Thank you for posting on the thread, hope we can make you feel a little better

 

Sorry OP for hijacking your thread, I know you intended it for BPD sufferers mainly.

[Mack05]

I would love to know of the OP has noticed the behaviours that we are describing in this thread? I would love an explanation to it all from a BPD perspective...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdPuSnP8YY8. This clip more or less states therapy is pointless and you need to seek out a mental health expert. OP did you do this?

 

BPD is so complex it will always divide opinions.

 

This song always reminds me of a BPD ex

 

Somebody That I Used To Know by GotyeHQ - YouTube

Edited March 27, 2013 by Mack05

[Emilia]

I would love to know of the OP has noticed the behaviours that we are describing in this thread? I would love an explanation to it all from a BPD perspective...

 

It would be great to hear more from the OP or others, hope they haven't been scared off.

 

BPD is so complex it will always divide opinions.

 

This song always reminds me of a BPD ex

 

Somebody That I Used To Know by GotyeHQ - YouTube

 

I think it is good to remind yourself though that what you are wistful towards is only one aspect of her fragmented identity. I used to hang on to the childlike, needy, cute-as-button aspect of my ex's personality but the truth is that the vicious side is part of him too. Just like the vicious side is part of your ex. As much as the lovely girl that originally trapped you. They say that codependents want to rescue BPD sufferers because they want that lovely woman to come back, however she comes with the nasty evil one. Who knows what her personality would be like if she didn't have BPD??

[Mack05]

Who knows what her personality would be like if she didn't have BPD??

 

Hmmm dunno while my last ex was simply stunning, she had the personality of a grapefruit. BPD is probably the only thing that makes her remotely interesting. No funny life stories, No sense of humour, didn't know how to have fun or leave her hair down.

 

In truth she was a b!tch. She would comment on so many little things. Like some guys nose hair, or another guy saying he didn't have the body to pull off a tatoo, my wrinkles on my forehead and blaming alcohol for them! She would always make little snide remarks on my appearance and if i objected she would say the problem is your insecurity. I hated how superficial she was.

 

One time, I was in apartment and I was trying on my top. I said I think I look good in this and smiled in the mirror. She scoffs back that's all in your head and walks off..

 

I remember her telling me a story about a work colleague who was quite heavy and she was eating a candy bar. She made some remark to my ex about something that seemed quite innocent and my ex replies in a bitchy way, enjoy your candy bar. The way she told the story, I was saying to myself what a total b!tch you are. If I ever brought it up, everything was simply deflected back straight on to me, or she would make it out that it was my interpretation of events that was the actual problem.

 

It's their perception of events that is truly crazy when you think about it..What's even crazier is, they sometimes make you think you are the crazy one! Just shows we have own issues to ever have gotten involved and stayed with these people.

 

What I will never figure out is she showed a lovely caring side as well. Extremely thoughtful and generous. I guess that's part of the riddle..

 

Thankfully I can't relate to a person like this.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Mack05

[Downtown]

OK, so maybe I wasn't an object to her. But the rest of what you wrote described my ex-wife perfectly.

Orion, my objective in questioning your "I was simply an object" statement was not to correct you. Rather, I wanted you to know that you very likely were loved, albeit in the immature manner of a four year old -- where Daddy is adored when handing her toys and, an hour later, is hated when taking one of them away.

 

When we "Nons" come stumbling out of a BPDer relationship, we typically are very confused and have a hundred questions in trying to achieve some semblance of closure. The question we all want answered the most -- by far -- is "Was I ever loved or was it all only an act?" If you were married to a BPDer, the answer almost certainly is that you were loved -- to the fullest extent she was capable of.