Tony & anyone else that has read these articles

[Joe]

Tony i happen to read your response too Why do women go for jerks. I checked out those articles. I found them very interesting but I don't entirely agree with them. I agree that women don't want nice guys, they want challenges,etc. But I don't agree with her statement that nice guys are jerks. Were does that come from. The way she stated that if you are a "nice guy" women have the right to mistreat you, say what? Don't get me wrong I agree with a lot of what she said but not this idea. All this stuff about what girl wants I agree with but the idea that it's the man's responsibility to "know" that this is what women want is not right. She puts all the responsibility on the man, maybe she's trying to get her point across or this what she believes, I don't know. But I think that if a woman has a "nice guy" but doesn't want a nice guy I think there is some responsibility of her to "communicate" how she feels instead of leading the man on and hoping they figure it out. I bet there are a ton of dumped "nice guys" who would have changed for their woman if they would have communicated their feelings to them. God knows I would have changed for my ex, I'm not saying they have to tell you how to act, etc., but just let the man know what is displeasing them. All the time we were together I thought everything was fine and it was what she wanted if I just would have had some idea instead of expecting me to be a professional mind reader. Anyway just wanted to voice my distorted opinion.

 

Joe

[Tony T]

You are talking utopia vs. reality. Reality doesn't have to be any more than what it actually is. Women aren't obligated to do anything but be themselves. It is ABSOLUTELY the responsibility of men to be men and to conduct themselves in such a way as to preserve their dignity, manliness, boundaries, etc. If a man can't do that, in many cases he will get stomped and that is that. It is not a responsibility of women to respond to nice men by loving them and being nice to them. History is full of great, wonderful men being stoned, spat upon, imprisoned, even assasinated.

 

Those articles I referred you to were exagerated in some places for the same reason I exagerate sometimes. People with thick heads often do not understand. But niceguyism is one of the more severe relationship diseases that there is and must be stomped out, not necessarily for the sake of the men who must suffer, but for the sake of women who can't stand to be around the men who are infected.

 

Women crave to be with a strong man who is kind, loving, sincere, generous, honest, etc. but also who is not a pushover, who does not act like she's the only thing he has going, who does not sulk when she is busy and can't see him, who is NOT there every time she snaps her finger....WOMEN WANT A MAN WHO HAS A LIFE. That's not to say that men shouldn't be there for them in crisis. Women like to count on their men during those times.

 

As was pointed out in another response to me below, there are some mature, more emotionally together women...don't know how many...maybe a lot...who really do like nice guys. But I think even those could get sick of a guy who was way too nice. There are ladies who were actually raised to appreciate kindness in heavy doses and they think enough of themselves to expect the best treatment. God bless their parents.

 

I am not here to change reality. I'm just here to present my take on it. My take on reality comes from my background in news reporting. I think I was far more balanced and fair when I was in journalism. But I am not perfect and I am not professing that my personal version of reality is everyone elses...or even anyone elses. You have to decide what your own reality is. When you read, you have to use a bit of your noodle to decide for yourself what it meant and what applies to you based on your own experiences.

 

Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity was doing something the same way repeated but expecting a different result. If your quest for love is coming out the same way each time, I think you should consider other ideas and approaches.

 

YOU WROTE: "The way she stated that if you are a "nice guy" women have the right to mistreat you, say what?"

 

Well, that's pushing it, but people will absolutely treat you whatever way they will. If it's not illegal, I suppose they do have a right. If you don't stand up for yourself, set your boundaries, etc., you are just a simple wimp target and deserve what you get. Hey, bub, this is life and nobody has an obligation to respond to your kindness. As you get along in life, you will find that often your kindness and generosity will be repaid to you with just the OPPOSITE of what you expect. Only those who have been raised property will appreciate you and respect you for your kindness and respond to you in kind. But nobody is obligated to treat you nicely. IT IS NOT THE LAW...it is only a human option.

 

YOU WRITE: ". But I think that if a woman has a "nice guy" but doesn't want a nice guy I think there is some responsibility of her to "communicate" how she feels instead of leading the man on and hoping they figure it out."

 

There are so many poor women with this problem. THEY DO communicate it but any half-way sweet, self-respecting woman does not want to hurt someone she knows likes her by telling him he's too nice, too sweet. It just doesn't sound so great coming out that way. So she communicates nonverbally, and I mean loudly, very loudly. It's the lovesick wimp who just doesn't take the cues. I know because I have been on the receiving end and I didn't take the cues until they became so overwhelming it was a TKO in the eight round.

 

There are a lot of women out there who will use a nice guy for all they can get. For them, finding a nice guy who will do anything for them is like winning the lottery. But when the jackpot is spent, they have no further interest. You still don't seem to get it and I don't want to interfere with the life lessons you seem to have to learn for real instead of reading other's experiences and learning from them.

 

You talk about ladies liking jerks. No, they don't necessarilly like jerks but there are a certain number of women who really go for the bad guys...for the challenge of changing them or taming them. Hey, there are just all kinds. Being with guys who jerk them around keeps things exciting for them. It's like going to amusement park and riding the thrill rides. For them, the predictability of nice guys is NOT at all appealing for them. That is the reality as I see it and there are people who will pay you millions if you can change it.

 

People who post here who disagree with everything I say are absolutely encouraged to do so, they're positively entitled to their opinion. But there is a big population of girls, especially the younger ones, who are repulsed by very sweet, always agreeable guys, and just want to vomit around them. For them, nice guys are almost an annoyance. It's just human nature for them and I understand that. Even grown women don't want to be around wimps. They want men who are confident, sure of themselves, and men who don't constantly shower them with flowers, gifts, trips, perfect harmony, etc. If you ever study psychology, you will learn the most effective tool for teaching behavior is intermittent reinforcement. I would give you some examples here but I don't want to inject laboratory rats into this dicussion. (But if a rat gets food every single time without getting a shock, it will take the food for granted, expect it to be there everytime, and no be very grateful.)

 

Suffice it to say I sincerely hope you can use your own brain power and your own experiences coupled with the most excellent reference materials I have noted for you in my other post to get a handle on this.

[Joe]

Hi Tony.....i get what you are saying. I think I kinda jumped the gun last night after reading those articles, I didn't really think before I wrote. Anyway I did some more reasearch about "nice guys" and I kind am in the middle of being a jerk and nice guy. Yes I am loving, caring, giving, yet passive. I enjoy taking girls out movies & dinner. Also I love to go on vacations with women also. But also I do like my alone time, golfing, geeking on computers..hehe and I don't go nuts when the girl is not around. My major flaw is my passivness but I'm working on it. I'm training myself to stand up and voice my opinion when I don't like something instead of letting it go. My passivness is what got me hurt by my ex. But in no way do I think I got what i deserved! Everyone who knew us my friends and hers think it was wrong what she did and I didn't deserve it. I do agree with your statement of the woman not having any responsibility to a point. I can understand a relationship of a year going sour because he was too nice, she was hoping he would change. But long relationships like 3 yrs. or more I believe that there is some responsibility of the woman to voice she is unsatisfied by her man's behavior. Leading a guy along for that long believing this is the behavior she wants is not right. I know there are women that just thrive on using a man as much as they can. But any decent woman would realize that the more they lead them on the more pain they will cause if a break up occurs, and should voice their dissatisfaction.

 

Joe

You are talking utopia vs. reality. Reality doesn't have to be any more than what it actually is. Women aren't obligated to do anything but be themselves. It is ABSOLUTELY the responsibility of men to be men and to conduct themselves in such a way as to preserve their dignity, manliness, boundaries, etc. If a man can't do that, in many cases he will get stomped and that is that. It is not a responsibility of women to respond to nice men by loving them and being nice to them. History is full of great, wonderful men being stoned, spat upon, imprisoned, even assasinated.

 

Those articles I referred you to were exagerated in some places for the same reason I exagerate sometimes. People with thick heads often do not understand. But niceguyism is one of the more severe relationship diseases that there is and must be stomped out, not necessarily for the sake of the men who must suffer, but for the sake of women who can't stand to be around the men who are infected. Women crave to be with a strong man who is kind, loving, sincere, generous, honest, etc. but also who is not a pushover, who does not act like she's the only thing he has going, who does not sulk when she is busy and can't see him, who is NOT there every time she snaps her finger....WOMEN WANT A MAN WHO HAS A LIFE. That's not to say that men shouldn't be there for them in crisis. Women like to count on their men during those times.

 

As was pointed out in another response to me below, there are some mature, more emotionally together women...don't know how many...maybe a lot...who really do like nice guys. But I think even those could get sick of a guy who was way too nice. There are ladies who were actually raised to appreciate kindness in heavy doses and they think enough of themselves to expect the best treatment. God bless their parents. I am not here to change reality. I'm just here to present my take on it. My take on reality comes from my background in news reporting. I think I was far more balanced and fair when I was in journalism. But I am not perfect and I am not professing that my personal version of reality is everyone elses...or even anyone elses. You have to decide what your own reality is. When you read, you have to use a bit of your noodle to decide for yourself what it meant and what applies to you based on your own experiences.

 

Albert Einstein said the definition of insanity was doing something the same way repeated but expecting a different result. If your quest for love is coming out the same way each time, I think you should consider other ideas and approaches.

 

YOU WROTE: "The way she stated that if you are a "nice guy" women have the right to mistreat you, say what?" Well, that's pushing it, but people will absolutely treat you whatever way they will. If it's not illegal, I suppose they do have a right. If you don't stand up for yourself, set your boundaries, etc., you are just a simple wimp target and deserve what you get. Hey, bub, this is life and nobody has an obligation to respond to your kindness. As you get along in life, you will find that often your kindness and generosity will be repaid to you with just the OPPOSITE of what you expect. Only those who have been raised property will appreciate you and respect you for your kindness and respond to you in kind. But nobody is obligated to treat you nicely. IT IS NOT THE LAW...it is only a human option. YOU WRITE: ". But I think that if a woman has a "nice guy" but doesn't want a nice guy I think there is some responsibility of her to "communicate" how she feels instead of leading the man on and hoping they figure it out." There are so many poor women with this problem. THEY DO communicate it but any half-way sweet, self-respecting woman does not want to hurt someone she knows likes her by telling him he's too nice, too sweet. It just doesn't sound so great coming out that way. So she communicates nonverbally, and I mean loudly, very loudly. It's the lovesick wimp who just doesn't take the cues. I know because I have been on the receiving end and I didn't take the cues until they became so overwhelming it was a TKO in the eight round. There are a lot of women out there who will use a nice guy for all they can get. For them, finding a nice guy who will do anything for them is like winning the lottery. But when the jackpot is spent, they have no further interest. You still don't seem to get it and I don't want to interfere with the life lessons you seem to have to learn for real instead of reading other's experiences and learning from them. You talk about ladies liking jerks. No, they don't necessarilly like jerks but there are a certain number of women who really go for the bad guys...for the challenge of changing them or taming them. Hey, there are just all kinds. Being with guys who jerk them around keeps things exciting for them. It's like going to amusement park and riding the thrill rides. For them, the predictability of nice guys is NOT at all appealing for them. That is the reality as I see it and there are people who will pay you millions if you can change it. People who post here who disagree with everything I say are absolutely encouraged to do so, they're positively entitled to their opinion. But there is a big population of girls, especially the younger ones, who are repulsed by very sweet, always agreeable guys, and just want to vomit around them. For them, nice guys are almost an annoyance. It's just human nature for them and I understand that. Even grown women don't want to be around wimps. They want men who are confident, sure of themselves, and men who don't constantly shower them with flowers, gifts, trips, perfect harmony, etc. If you ever study psychology, you will learn the most effective tool for teaching behavior is intermittent reinforcement. I would give you some examples here but I don't want to inject laboratory rats into this dicussion. (But if a rat gets food every single time without getting a shock, it will take the food for granted, expect it to be there everytime, and no be very grateful.) Suffice it to say I sincerely hope you can use your own brain power and your own experiences coupled with the most excellent reference materials I have noted for you in my other post to get a handle on this.