USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 This theory was prompted by Wholigan's recent thread regarding how he thought women "smelled" confidence...but my hypothesis is simple: Women aren't necessarily attracted by "confidence." "Confidence" is merely an internal construct that creates a bias for action, and it's the results from a man's tendency to act that women perceive to be an attraction to "confidence." Wholigan stated in part that he started noticing more glances from women than he had before his little tryst. However, many people were quick to point out that more likely than not, women were always looking at him but he just chose not to see it or interpret it as such. The external validation from him having sex changed the way his mind interpreted his surroundings, that is, how his mind interpreted women's behavior towards him. Before, he might have shrugged off a woman glancing at him, perhaps thinking that she was merely staring at a piece of lint on his shirt...but now, his mind processes the same glance as a sign of her attraction towards him. So what changed? In both cases, the woman was attracted enough to look at him, so clearly his "confidence" didn't attract her. It was how he perceived her glance. It was a change in his internal process. Borrowing from Brahmabull's fear of rejection, let's assume for a second that a man prefers to have positive signs of interest/attraction before approaching. The "confident" man views a woman's glance as that very positive sign he needs, so he approaches. Meanwhile, the "unconfident" man views a woman's glance as either a neutral or negative sign, so he does not approach. The woman goes out with the confident man not because she was attracted to confidence, but simply because he acted. In both cases, the woman was already attracted to the surface traits of the men, but only the "confident" man presumed attraction and acted accordingly. I believe that women's belief that they are "attracted" to confidence is simply an after-the-fact, results-based presumption. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
MrCastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I think confidence goes beyond just dating. And I think women are attracted to it. Let's say you have an athlete. I think it's more attractive to say something like "I'm feeling good. Think I'm gonna have a big game tomorrow" before a big game as opposed to "I don't know man. That team is pretty good. Look how strong they are! They are gonna be tough. Man. I hope I do okay." Neither has anything to do with dating, but it's still confidence in your skills vs lack of confidence in your skills. We always talk about having the confidence to approach women or whatever, but I think you can be confident in other areas of your life and women would find it attractive. I think it's a standalone trait that both sexes find attractive. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) I think confidence goes beyond just dating. And I think women are attracted to it. Ok, let's assume for a second that they are attracted to confidence. How do they actually know a guy is confident in other areas of his life? My basic premise is that confidence is not something you can be initially attracted to. You only think you're attracted to it after the fact and based on some sort of result (e.g., a man approaches a woman because he "confidently" believes she is attracted to him...and the woman then thinks she was attracted to his confidence...) Edited August 10, 2012 by USMCHokie Link to post Share on other sites
MrCastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ok, let's assume for a second that they are attracted to confidence. How do they actually know a guy is confident in other areas of his life? My basic premise is that confidence is not something you can be initially attracted to. You only think you're attracted to it after the fact and based on some sort of result (e.g., a man approaches a woman because he "confidently" believes she is attracted to him...and the woman then thinks she was attracted to his confidence...) I think it depends how you're meeting these women. If you're approaching a girl on the street, you already get confidence points just for that, because not a lot of men are brave enough to do that. But if you meet her through your job, school, or other social circles, I think you can show your confidence in other ways. Let's say you're a musician and you invite a girl to your gig. You talk to her before you go on stage, who sounds like they have more confidence? Guy A: Hey! Glad you came. I think you're gonna like my band. We kinda have this blah blah blah sound that's similar to that band you told me you like. Guy B: Hey! Whatsup? Glad you're here haha, I'm like totally freaking out. I go on in a few minutes. Hope I don't mess up haha. That would suck. In both cases, we're just talking about a musician going on stage to perform, nothing at all to do with dating or asking the girl out on a date or whatever. This can also be expressed through body language. If you're on stage not giving a ****, just shredding whatever instrument you're playing, getting into it, you're gonna come across more attractive than if you look like a deer in the headlights when you make eye contact with the crowd, or scared if you don't even make eye contact with the crowd at all. Confidence is as tangible a trait as you can have I think. You can show it through body language, through speech. It's visible. I believe it exists, I believe you can show it in other areas of your life outside of the dating world, and I think no matter where you show it (dating, work, school, hobbies, etc) women will be attracted to it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Sunshine Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Here we go again.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Confidence is as tangible a trait as you can have I think. You can show it through body language, through speech. It's visible. I believe it exists, I believe you can show it in other areas of your life outside of the dating world, and I think no matter where you show it (dating, work, school, hobbies, etc) women will be attracted to it. And this here is the key. Confidence is only tangible if you SHOW it. Like I said, confidence is nothing more than a bias for action, and as such, confidence can only be identified based on observation of an actual action. For example, if I show you a normal picture of someone, I doubt you could identify the areas in which he or she is confident. I beginning to think I'm thinking too abstractly into this...my head is spinning a little... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mesmerized Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I think confidence works for men if let's say they want to ask out a coworker or someone who has known them for a while. In a bar/club settings you don't have time to show that confidence, your looks and style is the most important feature. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MrCastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 And this here is the key. Confidence is only tangible if you SHOW it. Like I said, confidence is nothing more than a bias for action, and as such, confidence can only be identified based on observation of an actual action. For example, if I show you a normal picture of someone, I doubt you could identify the areas in which he or she is confident. I beginning to think I'm thinking too abstractly into this...my head is spinning a little... Well, yeah. But every trait is only tangible if you show it. You can say you're nice. But your actions are what determine if in fact you're a nice person or not. Actions speak louder than words. I can't tell a girl "Yeah, I'm confident" and have her say "Well, ****. I'm sold. I mean the man came out and said it." Your actions speak to who you are. Not just with confidence but with everything. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 How do you know its' confidence that changes your perception or other's perception of you changes when you get confidence? I'd say it's the latter, but for all I know I'm wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 In a bar/club settings you don't have time to show that confidence, your looks and style is the most important feature. Precisely. In such environments, surface traits are king. The only way to break through that limitation is with bias for action. If women truly were attracted solely to confidence, then you could presume that she must say yes to the unattractive homeless guy who approached her. He has to be labeled as confident simply due to his decision to act. Instead, there must be something else that attracts them...something that is not confidence... "Confidence" only creates the opportunity for a woman to find something she could be attracted to in the man. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MrCastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 "Confidence" only creates the opportunity for a woman to find something she could be attracted to in the man. But you can apply that idea to any trait. If a girl is physically attracted to you, and you make a lame joke, she'll laugh her head off and say "see, that's why I like him...he's funny" Your theory can be applied to any characteristic if the physical attraction is there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
miss_jaclynrae Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I must say, as a woman who values confidence, I do agree that it is something that is shown through actions. Believing in one self is an inner trait, but like all inner traits, others can only see the actions that are provoked by it. Because of this, those who look for confidence in a man know what they are trying to see. It goes from small things like posture, to the way they talk, it is noticeable, and because of that it is something that we can indeed visualize and appreciate, even though it is actually a personality trait. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
miss_jaclynrae Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 If women truly were attracted solely to confidence I don't know a single woman who would say she is SOLELY attracted to confidence... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 But you can apply that idea to any trait. If a girl is physically attracted to you, and you make a lame joke, she'll laugh her head off and say "see, that's why I like him...he's funny" Your theory can be applied to any characteristic if the physical attraction is there. If a girl is physically attracted to you, you don't need humor or confidence. Frankly, you need nothing else. You've already won. But seriously though, physical attraction often "creates" perceived qualities in a person, i.e., good looking folks will always be perceived to be more "confident," more funny, more anything... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 I don't know a single woman who would say she is SOLELY attracted to confidence... But it is often the single piece of advice more women give than anything else to men. "Be confident." There simply has to be more to it than that. Sure, confidence will create the opportunities for women to find something to be attracted to, but without some attractive trait(s), you're not going to get very far... Link to post Share on other sites
MrCastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 If a girl is physically attracted to you, you don't need humor or confidence. Frankly, you need nothing else. You've already won. But seriously though, physical attraction often "creates" perceived qualities in a person, i.e., good looking folks will always be perceived to be more "confident," more funny, more anything... Absolutely. But I also think the reverse is true. Meaning, if you're an average looking guy, with confidence; girls who had a general interest in you would find you more attractive. This of course can only work if the girl finds you somewhat good looking. You can't take a girl who isn't physically attracted to you at all and swoon her with confidence. But if she is neutral or slightly positive on your appearance, you can increase attraction with confidence. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MrCastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 But it is often the single piece of advice more women give than anything else to men. "Be confident." When a woman--hell, a member from either gender for that matter, say "I want ____", always be sure to add "physically attractive and" in front of it. "I like men to be (physically attractive and) funny" And so on and so forth. Nothing in your personality will take someone who is physically unattracted to you and make them attracted. That simply does not happen. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 But if she is neutral or slightly positive on your appearance, you can increase attraction with confidence. Right, you can increase attraction with confidence, but it's not the confidence that's attractive. It's that something else that confidence merely enables her to discover and become attracted to. Link to post Share on other sites
miss_jaclynrae Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 But it is often the single piece of advice more women give than anything else to men. "Be confident." There simply has to be more to it than that. Sure, confidence will create the opportunities for women to find something to be attracted to, but without some attractive trait(s), you're not going to get very far... As I said, we love confident men, but that doesn't mean confidence alone will get you anywhere. I love confident anyone, the trait of being confident is something I wish EVERYONE had, it adds so much more to ones life, and is in a way... a booster to living in general. I wouldn't have gotten so far in life if I hadn't of had the confidence, it is an easily readable trait. It is something that comes from within and helps in all aspects of your life. I have never once said, "I just want a man that is confident". No, confidence is something that you build within yourself, and it is that drive that it causes that helps it spill over into other aspects of your life. Dating is merely one of those aspects, and it is something that is sought after individually and in partners as well. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
MrCastle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Right, you can increase attraction with confidence, but it's not the confidence that's attractive. It's that something else that confidence merely enables her to discover and become attracted to. Yeah. But again, this is with any trait. Women like certain traits in men. But looks are a prerequisite. Looks get your foot in the door; then, from there, they decide what traits they find attractive in you. This is why OLD is the way it is. Average guys can get by in real life because, they're not HIDEOUS...they look good ENOUGH, and then their personality carries them the rest of the way. When it comes to OLD, if you're not a stone cold fox, you will have minimal success, because it is based purely on looks. No matter how well written you think your profile is; if you don't look good, girls won't even read it. I don't get why people think witty openers and whatnot are so important in OLD. If your pictures suck, what makes you think a girl is going to bypass that and continue to read your profile 3 Link to post Share on other sites
miss_jaclynrae Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 If a girl is physically attracted to you, you don't need humor or confidence. Frankly, you need nothing else. You've already won. But seriously though, physical attraction often "creates" perceived qualities in a person, i.e., good looking folks will always be perceived to be more "confident," more funny, more anything... True in SHORT TERM though. Long term, lacking such a trait spills over into other areas, just like every other trait out there. Thus, having an impact on the relationship. Short term, in order to get an initial date, SURE, physical attraction is enough. But as it has bee argued before, physical attraction varies immensely for each person. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mesmerized Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 But seriously though, physical attraction often "creates" perceived qualities in a person, i.e., good looking folks will always be perceived to be more "confident," more funny, more anything... I actually don't agree with this. There are a lot of guys I find hilarious, sweet etc and none of them are good looking yet I really enjoy having conversations with them. I still wouldn't sleep with them unless Im attracted to their looks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mycteria Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 The flaw in your argument lies in how you are defining confidence. Confidence is not JUST bias for action, and it's not solely tied to whether a man chooses to approach a girl or not. Confidence is something a man shows every day, not just when he first meets a girl. Confidence is in the way he talks, the way he carries himself. Even when dealing with other men. I understand what you are saying, but the problem is in narrowing the definition of confidence too much. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 I actually don't agree with this. There are a lot of guys I find hilarious, sweet etc and none of them are good looking yet I really enjoy having conversations with them. I still wouldn't sleep with them unless Im attracted to their looks. I was saying more along the lines of giving a person more credit for certain qualities just because he is physically attractive...I was not suggesting someone might be perceived to be more physically attractive because of non-physical qualities...though it could be possible... Link to post Share on other sites
Author USMCHokie Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 The flaw in your argument lies in how you are defining confidence. Confidence is not JUST bias for action, and it's not solely tied to whether a man chooses to approach a girl or not. Confidence is something a man shows every day, not just when he first meets a girl. Confidence is in the way he talks, the way he carries himself. Even when dealing with other men. I understand what you are saying, but the problem is in narrowing the definition of confidence too much. I actually believe that my definition of confidence is as broad and general as you can make it. The characteristics you describe in your second paragraph are not confidence. They are merely behaviors that might suggest confidence...not confidence itself. You can fake all of these behaviors and still not have confidence, so how can it be confidence...? Your turn.... Link to post Share on other sites
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