Looking for input

[Summer Breeze]

This may be totally legitimate, but I've read enough "Look! See I filed" stories that were a total scam for the MM to go back to cake eating that you have to protect yourself.

 

Point well taken and this is exactly why I wanted to be on here and making myself accountable.

[beenburned]

SB,

 

You are very wise to take everything slowly, as you don't know what all he has been up to in the years you have been apart!

 

As you know my STBXSIL, cheated on my D for 4 years with one OW. Then got greedy and got a second OW! The OW both found out about each other and all the lies they had been told.

 

They both called my D to tell her what all he had been up to for the last 5 years and provided all the evidence. My D kicked him out and filed for divorce, which still is NOT finalized due to him not willing to compromise on anything.

 

During their last year of marriage his drinking got totally out of hand, and soon after their separation he got charged with a DUI and lost his good job. His Dad offered to let him stay in his vacation home at the beach, if he would do some work for him.

 

Well soon after the move to the beach, he found a new girlfriend who has her own place and moved in with her.(he has no job) I feel so sorry for this new girl as she knows nothing about his history of cheating or how bad his drinking is. There is no telling what all lies he is feeding her!

 

When a man can lie to 3 different women for over 5 years, he has major problems!

 

Beware of what your XMM tells you unless you can verify that it is the truth. On the divorce papers you can tell who filed by their titles on the front page.

 

Take care to protect yourself, as there are many men that are total users!

[Summer Breeze]

SB, I think in your shoes I would wonder whether, when seeing (viewing) the guy, I was seeing the old him or the new him. You are both likely to have changed in some ways and it would be easy to feel the 'magic' from before <ducks to miss shoe SB has just thrown at my head> as opposed to starting over. Knowing myself as I do I suspect there would be the danger of a honeymoon period prior to me seeing things a little more clearly HOWEVER you are a savvy kinda gal and I think you'd be aware of such possible factors.

Someone else had said something similar. I think it was WWIU and she was saying to not see us in the A roles anymore. I think this goes hand in hand. Almost blasting past it and then falling into any old patterns.

 

The other thing, again referring to me in your shoes, having 'waited' for him, if I committed to trying the R out I wonder whether I'd then feel, oh I don't know... not obliged as such but maybe like I had to give it the best chance I could, in a 'made your bed....' way.

That is something very much on my mind right now. I think he's being so matter of fact and 'calm' about it to make sure I don't feel that pressure. He!! probably so he doesn't either. It might not be right for him.

 

Right, that's me projecting my own foibles on to you Now to you... I think this sounds really promising. He sounds like he's gone away and quietly sorted his $hit out and not brought any drama to your door. If only more people behaved this way! I would DEFINITELY recommend meeting up with him, and taking it slow and steady. See if he's a man you would like to share your life with. How exciting!

 

Thanks SG. I'm glad I held off a while before I answered him. I think that kind of helped set the tone too.

 

Thanks again

[Summer Breeze]

SB,

 

You are very wise to take everything slowly, as you don't know what all he has been up to in the years you have been apart!

 

As you know my STBXSIL, cheated on my D for 4 years with one OW. Then got greedy and got a second OW! The OW both found out about each other and all the lies they had been told.

 

They both called my D to tell her what all he had been up to for the last 5 years and provided all the evidence. My D kicked him out and filed for divorce, which still is NOT finalized due to him not willing to compromise on anything.

 

During their last year of marriage his drinking got totally out of hand, and soon after their separation he got charged with a DUI and lost his good job. His Dad offered to let him stay in his vacation home at the beach, if he would do some work for him.

 

Well soon after the move to the beach, he found a new girlfriend who has her own place and moved in with her.(he has no job) I feel so sorry for this new girl as she knows nothing about his history of cheating or how bad his drinking is. There is no telling what all lies he is feeding her!

 

When a man can lie to 3 different women for over 5 years, he has major problems!

 

Beware of what your XMM tells you unless you can verify that it is the truth. On the divorce papers you can tell who filed by their titles on the front page.

 

Take care to protect yourself, as there are many men that are total users!

 

I've been keeping track of you Ds story BB. I can't even believe what she's going through but I am so glad she's out of it now.

 

That's why he sent me the papers and the letter from his lawyer I think -- he is the plaintiff and actually filed. You're right. There are so many users in the world and sometimes we just don't keep the guard up quite high enough.

 

Thank you very much.

[2sure]

Well, I have a general mistrust of the world currently..but I do know that filing for divorce is a long long way from divorced. I would be skeptically optimistic !

But I wouldn't budge until it was final and here's why:

 

You've come too far. Too far to go back to the worst part of being OW. Too far to be a part of the slow train wreck many divorces turn out to be.

 

You love him, he loves you....wait a little longer. Let this play out.

[jwi71]

It's a normal date really.

 

Guy asks girl to coffee or dinner or tea and crumpets. They talk, exchange witty banter, flirt, it's all a great time really.

 

This date will be none of that.

 

The date hasn't even begun and it's already heavy - skipping the good, fun, memorable aspects of dating and jumping right into the deep end.

 

Questions, answers, excuses, explanations, exagerations, falsifications and enduring ever lasting fate is the theme. The burden of the past and the current of the present (the current D and the talk of the past).

 

This is less date and more therapy session really.

 

I often say the transition from A to "normal R" is brutal - and that's why.

 

The burden of the past, your true beginning with him, is an albatross around your collective necks.

 

Those memories which should be created now - the happy, goofy, self conscious and awkward steps, are replaced by mutual commiseration.

 

Here's my suggestion. Ignore the past. (for now)

 

Be mindful of it yes. Do NOT forget it. But ignore it.

Do NOT speak of it. Do NOT bring it up and stop him of he does.

 

This is a date. A first date. A new beginning. Let's see if the desire to date is there FIRST. See if you can still connect as man and woman. You'll know soon enough.

 

Let that be your first step. The second one comes later and is wholly dependent upon the first.

 

Be you.

[Summer Breeze]

Well, I have a general mistrust of the world currently..but I do know that filing for divorce is a long long way from divorced. I would be skeptically optimistic !

But I wouldn't budge until it was final and here's why:

 

You've come too far. Too far to go back to the worst part of being OW. Too far to be a part of the slow train wreck many divorces turn out to be.

 

You love him, he loves you....wait a little longer. Let this play out.

 

Again it's very good advice. I thank you all. You're right there are so many sad stories here that it's hard to be jumping for joy. I like 'skeptically optimistic'. I may use that !

[Summer Breeze]

It's a normal date really.

 

Guy asks girl to coffee or dinner or tea and crumpets. They talk, exchange witty banter, flirt, it's all a great time really.

 

This date will be none of that.

 

The date hasn't even begun and it's already heavy - skipping the good, fun, memorable aspects of dating and jumping right into the deep end.

 

Questions, answers, excuses, explanations, exagerations, falsifications and enduring ever lasting fate is the theme. The burden of the past and the current of the present (the current D and the talk of the past).

 

This is less date and more therapy session really.

 

I often say the transition from A to "normal R" is brutal - and that's why.

 

The burden of the past, your true beginning with him, is an albatross around your collective necks.

 

Those memories which should be created now - the happy, goofy, self conscious and awkward steps, are replaced by mutual commiseration.

 

Here's my suggestion. Ignore the past. (for now)

 

Be mindful of it yes. Do NOT forget it. But ignore it.

Do NOT speak of it. Do NOT bring it up and stop him of he does.

 

This is a date. A first date. A new beginning. Let's see if the desire to date is there FIRST. See if you can still connect as man and woman. You'll know soon enough.

 

Let that be your first step. The second one comes later and is wholly dependent upon the first.

 

Be you.

 

So true. So lovely. You made me cry.

 

Thank you. Not for making me cry! Thank you for such great advice.

[Summer Breeze]

Just because divorce papers have been filed, that doesn't mean he's changed or has "sorted his shyt out" in any way. Who knows, maybe he cheated on BW again, and this time she got sick of it.

It is entirely possible that happened. I can only trust it's the truth until something leads me to believe otherwise. But I will absolutely say that I never expected them to be filed at all.

 

Of course, maybe not. Point is, I'd be looking for signs of personal growth and not just excuses. None of this "I was unhappy so I cheated" or "she's a bitch so I cheated" or "I'm entitled to happiness so I cheated" or "I was so enchanted by your magical pu$$y and irresistably drawn to your fairy dust" crap.

He never said he was unhappy and he always said he wouldn't leave. There was a child that has an illness (not going into anything more detailed as need to remain anonymous) and he felt the need to remain in the home. He wasn't unhappy but he wasn't happy either. He never said a bad word about his W and my poor old pu$$y lost its magic many years ago. I do get your point though. What's the nuts and bolts of it all and no lame excuses. What changed it and whatcha gonna do to keep it all together in the future.

 

Does he know why he chose to cheat instead of divorcing or working on his M? Is he a big enough person to understand that it wasn't appropriate and admit it? What's he done to make sure it's not an option for him again?

As above and certainly things we need to talk about when the time does come.

 

Just as love isn't enough, divorce papers aren't enough either.

 

I agree they aren't but they certainly are a good place to start. Especially when they're closer to being signed than filed.

 

Thank you JT. I need these kicks to keep me sharp.

[2sure]

My biggest thing is...even spouses who have become indifferent and both agree to divorce

 

When one or the other starts seeing someone else...they waffle. its hard to see your partner of some years with someone else, no matter your previous feelings. Its natural. If he has filed and his wife is amicable, a lot can change if she were to find out he was seeing you.

 

Leave it.

[Summer Breeze]

But here's the thing Summer - we SEEN it on various boards. One of them files, MM gets an apartment, then he goes looking for OW (and many go on dating sites while courting the OW) . . . but they don't quite finalize that divorce. Something always seems to come up - the STBXwife gets cancer, the STBXwife's father is dying.

 

It's happened to many times to count.

 

I'm not saying things aren't going to move forward, but they may not. That's why you need to stay away from him in person and over the phone.

 

You're going to get hooked. You already have your mouth open over the hook.

 

I totally understand what you're saying and I also agree to some extent. The one thing is that I've seen sight of the papers for almost 9 months now and not reacted to him. I saw the letter from his solicitor about 8 months ago and I didn't react to that. I've not reacted to the flowers he sent for V Day or my B Day. It's been a couple weeks since he sent the email letting me know things were almost done and that he wanted to see me. He hasn't pressured me at all. I do know that I am hooked in to a degree but I also am not willing to let every fear going stop me from trying. My goal is to temper it and to make clear and considered decisions. I feel that so far I've done that. I just need to keep on doing that and that's where everyone here comes in. He's moving mountains now and at some point I need to at least acknowledge that. I am taking yours, and everyones, advice very seriously. I'll go with some of it and I won't go with some. I will keep posting how things are going and I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve so you'll know how it's going.

 

Just because I don't agree 100% with this post of yours please don't stop posting. Keep me honest!

 

Thanks Alice.

[Summer Breeze]

But here's the thing Summer - we SEEN it on various boards. One of them files, MM gets an apartment, then he goes looking for OW (and many go on dating sites while courting the OW) . . . but they don't quite finalize that divorce. Something always seems to come up - the STBXwife gets cancer, the STBXwife's father is dying.

 

It's happened to many times to count.

 

I'm not saying things aren't going to move forward, but they may not. That's why you need to stay away from him in person and over the phone.

 

If he's not legit and you wind up getting hooked again, then the "closer to being signed than filed" thing will be the rationalization that keeps you indefinitely waiting for him like we've seen happen before.

 

Moving and filing out makes no difference. We SEEN them go back. Even after the divorce is final.

 

You already have your mouth open over the hook. Don't bite.

 

 

Remember one other thing. I didn't wait indefinitely for him. I ended it 4 years ago when it had run its course.

 

Thank you!

[Summer Breeze]

My biggest thing is...even spouses who have become indifferent and both agree to divorce

 

When one or the other starts seeing someone else...they waffle. its hard to see your partner of some years with someone else, no matter your previous feelings. Its natural. If he has filed and his wife is amicable, a lot can change if she were to find out he was seeing you.

 

Leave it.

 

Frighteningly true post.

[2sunny]

Take..it..slowly!

 

No sex. No sleepovers. Don't rush back into things as they once were. He can officially take you out on a date, pick you up and drop you at home afterwards.

 

Remember too, even though his D is just about to be final, if not already, he still needs time to adjust and be alone. Things are still fresh and yes, on some level he'll still be grieving that loss, a life he once had with friends, extended family etc.. I assume you want him fully but for him to also be fully ready. Again, take it slowly.

 

I agree - but feel its best to wait until it's FINAL!

 

And it's best too - if he spends some time on his OWN - learning how to be happy on his own. Otherwise he's just showing evidence that he's afraid of being on his own - and that's very unhealthy.

 

Has he done counseling to learn about himself?

[SoleMate]

Some months ago he sent an email and he'd scanned his D papers. Shortly after he scanned a letter from his lawyer confirming they'd been filed. Recently he sent an email telling me that things were just about done and he wanted to take me out.

As other have noted, filing papers is a LONG way from being divorced. Most people don't realize it, but filing a divorce petition with the court does NOT even automatically notify the other party. That requires a separate step of officially serving the spouse via process server. There are MANY steps to finalizing a divorce. If he went from petition to final decree in 6 months or less, that's amazingly fast. Have you seen a final decree?

 

Also, once he is legally divorced, it does provide better assurance for you (from 1% up to 10%), but it is possible the work of emotional divorce is far from final. MM with longstanding A tend to go back and forth with the breeze. And then when he does truly separate from his W in his heart and mind as well as legally, he still as to acknowledge and fix the part of him that made him a happy cake eating MM for years.

 

My best advice is, look only at his actions, not at ANY of his words. And if you need help interpreting his actions, please come to LS for that advice, don't ask him.

 

Lastly, don't make the mistake of thinking you have to be with him because he is divorcing (?). It's still totally your choice, as to whether to put your future happiness in this man's hands.

[Furious]

Four years ago I ended my three year R with MM. I ended it because it eventually caused me to be much more unhappy than happy. I told him I wanted more and gave him the chance to change things. I knew he wouldn't and he didn't. I ended it. It broke my heart and I've never fallen out of love with him but I know it was the right thing to do and it was the right time to do it.

 

Some months ago he sent an email and he'd scanned his D papers. Shortly after he scanned a letter from his lawyer confirming they'd been filed. Recently he sent an email telling me that things were just about done and he wanted to take me out. This morning I responded and told him he could call me this weekend so we could arrange something.

 

I have a huge array of emotions in me right now. I'm excited, scared, amazed, happy and sad. I honestly don't know what to expect. It's been such a long

time. I really don't have any questions for anyone yet. I think I'm just wanting to say it to someone and not sure if I want to tell my friends quite yet.

 

Please fill my head with warnings, questions, comfort and whatever else.

Make me think because right now I'm the deer in the headlights and a little stunned.

 

 

I would wait to see him, filing for divorce is not a divorce.

 

It seems he is the type of man who can never be alone, always needs a

woman at his side, and for three years during your affair he had two women at his side.

 

The ink isn't even dry and he wants to take you on a date, maybe he is giving himself the option that if you and he don't work out and since he is still legally married he still has the option to stay married and woo his wife back.

 

It takes at least a year after a divorce to feel independent and to get your life straightened out before getting serious with someone new. He is

jumping out of one frying pan into another because he is scared to be alone.

 

 

Be careful.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Furious

[2sunny]

Seeing him now - YOU stand a good chance of ALLOWING HIN to bring in his baggage from the M.

 

Proper order is key! You've waited this long - why not wait and allow him the time to seek counseling - the help he needs to adjust to being HEALTHY on his own?

 

That way he stands a better chance at bringing his healthier self into dating you! Without that change - he's just offering you his broken self. That's just not a good choice for anyone...

[Silly_Girl]

Just because divorce papers have been filed, that doesn't mean he's changed or has "sorted his shyt out" in any way. Who knows, maybe he cheated on BW again, and this time she got sick of it.

 

Hopefully not. Point is, I'd be looking for signs of personal growth and not just excuses. None of this "I was unhappy so I cheated" or "she's a bitch so I cheated" or "I'm entitled to happiness so I cheated" or "I was so enchanted by your magical pu$$y and irresistably drawn to your fairy dust" crap.

 

Is he able to admit that what he did to his wife and to you was selfish to the nth degree? Does he know why he chose to cheat instead of divorcing or working on his M? Is he a big enough person to understand that it wasn't appropriate and admit it? What's he done to make sure it's not an option for him again?

 

Just as love isn't enough, divorce papers aren't enough either.

 

You don't know he HASN'T sorted his $hit out, either.

 

From SB's previous posts I gathered that he was respectful of her, and treated her well. He was in a prior relationship but otherwise it seemed SB was pretty satisfied - FOR HERSELF - of his character. Lots of questions that she may well already know the answer to, they were together a long time. Not sure why that would change now, and getting to know him again is how she'll find out.

 

I know from experience that a divorce may NOT be an upsetting process and ties might have been long severed. I can't guess at these things, just as you can't. There's lots to be considered, hence the thread. There was also a lot more to my post than one line

[Silly_Girl]

SB, do you feel he's courting you because he can't bear to be alone? What's his R history like?

[MissBee]

Four years ago I ended my three year R with MM. I ended it because it eventually caused me to be much more unhappy than happy. I told him I wanted more and gave him the chance to change things. I knew he wouldn't and he didn't. I ended it. It broke my heart and I've never fallen out of love with him but I know it was the right thing to do and it was the right time to do it.

 

Some months ago he sent an email and he'd scanned his D papers. Shortly after he scanned a letter from his lawyer confirming they'd been filed. Recently he sent an email telling me that things were just about done and he wanted to take me out. This morning I responded and told him he could call me this weekend so we could arrange something.

 

I have a huge array of emotions in me right now. I'm excited, scared, amazed, happy and sad. I honestly don't know what to expect. It's been such a long time. I really don't have any questions for anyone yet. I think I'm just wanting to say it to someone and not sure if I want to tell my friends quite yet.

 

Please fill my head with warnings, questions, comfort and whatever else. Make me think because right now I'm the deer in the headlights and a little stunned.

 

I can only imagine how you feel.

 

While not the same situation, my advice would be what I give people on the second chances forum, when they're gonna meet up with their ex again: Don't get ahead of yourself.

 

You're pretty smart SB, and I doubt you'll simply dive back full on with him. I'd take it as it comes, that is, not trying to plan far into the future but just gauge the situation and your feelings and take things as slow as you want.

 

Are you scared that you are still in love with and that, even though he's divorced, it might not work out anyway? What are your fears/concerns now, since his marriage is seemingly not the issue? I can imagine it's scary to have a chance with "the one that got away"...a real chance. There's more on the line then. With no marriage in the way, you'll both have to put it all on the line and it's scary. It's also scary to bring the past into the present.

 

But I'd just take it slowly as it comes. Meet up and see how you feel about it. See where his head and situation are and see how it feels to you. Stay in the now and try to treat him as I man you're getting to know. If years have passed, people change and I think it's easy to build on nostalgia...which can be dangerous. So I'd think of it as a new chapter and approach the date as a reacquainting yourself and seeing if who he is today, who you are, what you all want etc. are compatible in 2012.

Edited August 10, 2012 by MissBee

[MissBee]

SB, do you feel he's courting you because he can't bear to be alone? What's his R history like?

 

Good question too.

 

I'd be weary of being his rebound, and yes, a rebound can be someone you dated before. I would not want him to find himself divorced and single, and simply afraid of loneliness, so reaching for what he feels is "a sure thing" that was in love with him from before.

 

I'd take it with a grain of salt, like you would if an old ex rang you up and you hear that they recently left the person they were with.

[Summer Breeze]

I agree - but feel its best to wait until it's FINAL!

 

And it's best too - if he spends some time on his OWN - learning how to be happy on his own. Otherwise he's just showing evidence that he's afraid of being on his own - and that's very unhealthy.

 

Has he done counseling to learn about himself?

 

In all honesty I don't know because we haven't talked. I have a lot of questions for him and you guys are adding to the list.

[Summer Breeze]

Yes, I read that. I mean now.

 

I meant that since the papers have been filed, should he come up with a "valid" excuse, you're more likely to wait indefinitely because he's filed. Because you feel it's "closer to being signed than filed." Making you more likely to put your life on hold.

 

I'm sorry. I understand now. That is not him at all. He never fought me walking away and he's not pressuring me to see him now. I do understand what you're saying and it is something to definitely keep myself aware of.

[Summer Breeze]

As other have noted, filing papers is a LONG way from being divorced. Most people don't realize it, but filing a divorce petition with the court does NOT even automatically notify the other party. That requires a separate step of officially serving the spouse via process server. There are MANY steps to finalizing a divorce. If he went from petition to final decree in 6 months or less, that's amazingly fast. Have you seen a final decree?

No. He said it should be mid September or so. Again I haven't talked to him so I really don't know a whole lot more than what I've said. The one thing is he introduced me to his family and we do have some common acquaintances. It won't be tough to verify anything I think is amiss. At the start that could be everything.

 

Also, once he is legally divorced, it does provide better assurance for you (from 1% up to 10%), but it is possible the work of emotional divorce is far from final. MM with longstanding A tend to go back and forth with the breeze. And then when he does truly separate from his W in his heart and mind as well as legally, he still as to acknowledge and fix the part of him that made him a happy cake eating MM for years.

 

My best advice is, look only at his actions, not at ANY of his words. And if you need help interpreting his actions, please come to LS for that advice, don't ask him.

I think that's really good advice and I will probably bore you all to death with this.

 

Lastly, don't make the mistake of thinking you have to be with him because he is divorcing (?). It's still totally your choice, as to whether to put your future happiness in this man's hands.

I admit this scares me to death. I think it probably scares him too to be honest. I keep thinking how familiar and how foreign it will be and worry if it might be too foreign.

 

Thanks very much.

[Summer Breeze]

Here's the thing. My guess is that he would have been willing to let the A go on indefinitely if you hadn't ended it.

You're right he would have. But he said from the start that unless we had a natural falling out he wouldn't end it. He always said when I wanted to end it he wouldn't stop me. And he didn't.

 

I know most OW won't agree, but I find affairs to be one of the most disrespectful and insulting things that can happen- not just to the betrayed, but to the OP as well. To me, it's like saying "I love you and I can't be without you, but I only love you enough to keep you my secret." OW focus on the love part, but not so much on the hidden part. To me, that's plain disrespectful and insulting. So, he loved you, but was more than willing to put himself first for as long as you would have allowed it. Even him sending you the flowers was about him, not about you. You may not buy what I'm saying, but you have to admit that you had to go through a lot that you wouldn't have had to had he been single.

Until the end I didn't go through a lot different than if he'd been single. When it was too much (or not enough) I ended it. That's it. He always said he wouldn't leave home. Neither of us did the whole need you and can't be without you thing because we knew we loved each other but none of us NEEDS anyone and we all can live without people. I do get what you're saying but we always knew it was going to end. Not once did it feel disrespectful. If it had I'd a jogged on. I'd have to disagree on the flowers but then again the old saying it's better to give than receive. I'm sure it somehow made him feel better. I know him though and it would have been painful for me not to acknowledge them. It would have been easier for him to not send them.

 

I'm not trying to poop on your parade, but I think he really needs to jump through some hoops to deserve your heart. He needs to show some remorse for putting you through that. (It'd be nice if he'd show some remorse for putting his W through that too, but that's not what the thread is about.) Yes, I know you were a willing participant until you weren't, but he still needs to make amends for his selfishness. Just as a remorseful WS should make amends, he should make amends to you for putting you in that position. To me, just dating and seeing where it goes is not enough.

Poop away Doll! I think you're right about jumping through hoops. I just think it's important that at this point I at least acknowledge it. I have to say you've all got me thinking and I'm so glad I posted this. I struggled and almost didn't. I'm glad I did.

 

Yep, make him wait until the D is final, but make him work for it. Harder than he'd have to work for any other single gal. Make him show that he's a man that deserves your love.

 

More great points and appreciated. Thank you.