The Importance of Nature and Humanity

[Forever Silent]

Setting aside religion and such, I would like to know how posters view the importance of nature and humanity.

 

Question:

 

I would like to know how posters feel about war, suffering, pleasure, prosperity, and charity.

____________________________________________________________

 

(ED: I am am just rambling here to let posters see my thought process)

 

As we type on computers, we are aware that there are others are unable to partake in this privliege. As we express our opinions, we are aware that there are others who are being killed expressing theirs. As we eat food, we are aware that there are others who go without. And as we consume, we are aware of those who are consumed by the comedy known as life.

 

What I am saying is, have you ever wondered about the size and scope of who your are. Why was I born in this paticular race, to this paticular gender, and in paticular country, etc.... Every time you answer the question you most also place a limiter on your current being. For example a Female would never know what it would be like to be a Male, and a Male would never know what would it like to be a Female. This can be said for almost anything you have in your possession which have been given to you by chance or divine providence (take your choosing).

 

So if the state of being were to continue to exist where we let our limiters dictate our thoughts and feelings would this not eventually lead to ignorance. And cannot our ignornace breed hatred or hostily towards another human. Whether this hatred manifests through violence or some sort of malice the root of the problem, I think lies in the ignorance.

 

The same came be said of nature. If one is born outside of nature, how can one understand nature.

 

I do not know honestly, If my ramblings confuse you then yes I have succeded because my ramblings confuse my self. It is from my confusion that I come to a state of understanding.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

I have seperated my ramblings from the question. The most important thing here is your thoughts on my question. Please I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter. My ramblings are not really important unless you feel it is necessary to see how I arrived at such a question.

 

Futhermore, if religion helps you to answer my question then by all means use it. If science helps you answer my question, then by all means use it. And finally if personal expirence hepls you answer my question then use it. My goal is to learn and to further my understanding of human beings and nature. Also, lets keep it civil.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Forever Silent

[threebyfate]

I've come to the conclusion that life, just is, where there's no purpose beyond one you create.

 

But in drawing any conclusion, it's both freeing and limiting. So is viewing people in "them" or "us" categories, where in refusing to understand other perspectives, we hold onto our tribal fears, shaking fists at the sky gods.

 

It's inherently human nature to fear the unknown. It's also limiting to do so, deliberately ignorant since there's no excuse to discard human evolution.

 

Difficult to put into words, my entire concept of life. Need to think about this a bit more, to concretize amorphous thoughts into meaningful words to others.

[soccerrprp]

Hmmm. Interesting and unfortunately for me, a too simple response:

 

I find it rather easier to believe that things happen by chance and not by divine providence. As it is a fact that none of us when conceived or born "deserve" the circumstances into which we are born, it would be rather discouraging and disheartening to think that a divine entity would allow the vast majority of innocence to be born into poverty, squalor and deprivation in this world. Simply cruel...

 

There is a strong belief within more conservative (mainly American-style) protestantism that one's circumstances and conditions are due to the degree to which God has shown favor...yes, the richer you are, you must have been blessed by God. The freer society you live in, you must have been blessed by God, if not, you have not been blessed by God... it's absurd, of course, seeing that much of the so-called blessed are some of the most selfish, opportunistic and vain people on earth.

 

All in all, perhaps easier to simply believe that it just is...no God.

[OpenBook]

As we type on computers, we are aware that there are others are unable to partake in this privliege. As we express our opinions, we are aware that there are others who are being killed expressing theirs. As we eat food, we are aware that there are others who go without. And as we consume, we are aware of those who are consumed by the comedy known as life.

 

What I am saying is, have you ever wondered about the size and scope of who your are. Why was I born in this paticular race, to this paticular gender, and in paticular country, etc....

 

 

I don't know, but whatever it was, I was damn lucky! Won the lottery on that one.

 

What fascinates me is that there are people in the world who have a lot less than me who are also a lot happier.

[HokeyReligions]

What I am saying is, have you ever wondered about the size and scope of who your are. Why was I born in this paticular race, to this paticular gender, and in paticular country, etc....

 

--

I did once, but then I read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galexy and I recovered and didn't think about it again.

 

"The History of every major Galactic Civilization tends to pass through three distinct and recognizable phases, those of Survival, Inquiry and Sophistication, otherwise known as the How, Why and Where phases. For instance, the first phase is characterized by the question How can we eat? the second by the question Why do we eat? and the third by the question Where shall we have lunch?"

[Forever Silent]

I think that question relies on a misconception that "I" had some kind of existence prior to being placed into this body.

 

Two people procreated, created another life which gave rise to the concept of "me". Placed in this context of causality, the question becomes one of why didn't this fetus somehow magically transport to some other womb instead, and is incoherent.

 

We are who and where we are because we could not have been anyone or anywhere else.

 

I believe you are saying in essence "we are who we are". While that is true, the point I am trying to make is that humanity and the existence of an individual is truly a creation bound with limitations. Yes I am Forever Silent, and I know all things concerning Forever Silent. However, I do not know Quick Joe, and I am unaware of all things concerning Quick Joe. How can humanity move foward if we are bound by such limitations.

 

We could argue that advances in technology have opened up the possibilty of connection between people, but at the same time one could make the arguement that technology has further divided people.

 

Also, I am not indiciting any religion in this thread. In my opinion, my question is more philosophical than religious although both may have the answer or path I am seeking.

[threebyfate]

I believe you are saying in essence "we are who we are". While that is true, the point I am trying to make is that humanity and the existence of an individual is truly a creation bound with limitations. Yes I am Forever Silent, and I know all things concerning Forever Silent. However, I do not know Quick Joe, and I am unaware of all things concerning Quick Joe. How can humanity move foward if we are bound by such limitations.

 

We could argue that advances in technology have opened up the possibilty of connection between people, but at the same time one could make the arguement that technology has further divided people.

 

Also, I am not indiciting any religion in this thread. In my opinion, my question is more philosophical than religious although both may have the answer or path I am seeking.

You've lost me. Why isn't it possible for humans within a single community to communicate with each other their ideals that catch on and expand outwards to slowly encompass the entire world. This is how every religion, the belief in human rights, equality, law, political beliefs, all of it, began. No one has to live inside the head of another person in order to understand what they're trying to communicate or empathize with their emotions or situation.

 

If the growing belief is one that will take humanity forward, such as not killing your neighbor for what they have that you covet, isn't this a step forward?

[Forever Silent]

I've come to the conclusion that life, just is, where there's no purpose beyond one you create.

 

But in drawing any conclusion, it's both freeing and limiting. So is viewing people in "them" or "us" categories, where in refusing to understand other perspectives, we hold onto our tribal fears, shaking fists at the sky gods.

 

It's inherently human nature to fear the unknown. It's also limiting to do so, deliberately ignorant since there's no excuse to discard human evolution.

 

Difficult to put into words, my entire concept of life. Need to think about this a bit more, to concretize amorphous thoughts into meaningful words to others.

 

At this point in my life I agree with you, however from this perspective, I must also the consequence of people living purposeless lives. This impasse is causing me to question my current stance on life, I am currently reconsidering my approach.

 

I don't know, but whatever it was, I was damn lucky! Won the lottery on that one.

 

What fascinates me is that there are people in the world who have a lot less than me who are also a lot happier.

 

Less in terms of economic consumerism. But for the people in nations who have less resources and rights I would think they are sad and possibly miserable.

[Forever Silent]

You've lost me. Why isn't it possible for humans within a single community to communicate with each other their ideals that catch on and expand outwards to slowly encompass the entire world. This is how every religion, the belief in human rights, equality, law, political beliefs, all of it, began. No one has to live inside the head of another person in order to understand what they're trying to communicate or empathize with their emotions or situation.

 

If the growing belief is one that will take humanity forward, such as not killing your neighbor for what they have that you covet, isn't this a step forward?

 

Religion is usually created by like-minded people. When the like-minded people disagree they form a new sect or break off entirely and form a new group of like-mined people until a point is reached where a state of ignorance is inevitable. The same came be said about almost anything for instance even human rights, equality, and law.

 

I think this is because we truly do not understand each other. Which is why I started this thread to see how much value we place in humanity and nature.

 

We overcome this limitation with empathy and communication, and if utilised properly that ought to be enough (emphasis on "if"). Though separate instances, most humans have enough in common to make an educated guess about other people, and what we can't infer implicitly we can find out by talking to each other.

 

Yes the if. We would assume that empathy and communication is enough. But in a world where half of humanity population is poor, how can we assume that empathy and communication is enough to truly bring about change in this world.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Forever Silent

[threebyfate]

Religion is usually created by like-minded people. When the like-minded people disagree they form a new sect or break off entirely and form a new group of like-mined people until a point is reached where a state of ignorance is inevitable. The same came be said about almost anything for instance even human rights, equality, and law.

 

I think this is because we truly do not understand each other. Which is why I started this thread to see how much value we place in humanity and nature.

Does this mean that any belief can't expand outwards, converting or attracting new believers? Let's take human rights, as represented by the United Nations which began with 51 members and has grown to 193 member states. Wouldn't you say that since its inception, there has been some advancement in human rights issues for humanity?

[TheFinalWord]

Setting aside religion and such, I would like to know how posters view the importance of nature and humanity.

 

Question:

 

I would like to know how posters feel about war, suffering, pleasure, prosperity, and charity.

____________________________________________________________

 

(ED: I am am just rambling here to let posters see my thought process)

 

As we type on computers, we are aware that there are others are unable to partake in this privliege. As we express our opinions, we are aware that there are others who are being killed expressing theirs. As we eat food, we are aware that there are others who go without. And as we consume, we are aware of those who are consumed by the comedy known as life.

 

What I am saying is, have you ever wondered about the size and scope of who your are. Why was I born in this paticular race, to this paticular gender, and in paticular country, etc.... Every time you answer the question you most also place a limiter on your current being. For example a Female would never know what it would be like to be a Male, and a Male would never know what would it like to be a Female. This can be said for almost anything you have in your possession which have been given to you by chance or divine providence (take your choosing).

 

So if the state of being were to continue to exist where we let our limiters dictate our thoughts and feelings would this not eventually lead to ignorance. And cannot our ignornace breed hatred or hostily towards another human. Whether this hatred manifests through violence or some sort of malice the root of the problem, I think lies in the ignorance.

 

The same came be said of nature. If one is born outside of nature, how can one understand nature.

 

I do not know honestly, If my ramblings confuse you then yes I have succeded because my ramblings confuse my self. It is from my confusion that I come to a state of understanding.

 

____________________________________________________________

 

I have seperated my ramblings from the question. The most important thing here is your thoughts on my question. Please I would like to hear your thoughts on the matter. My ramblings are not really important unless you feel it is necessary to see how I arrived at such a question.

 

Futhermore, if religion helps you to answer my question then by all means use it. If science helps you answer my question, then by all means use it. And finally if personal expirence hepls you answer my question then use it. My goal is to learn and to further my understanding of human beings and nature. Also, lets keep it civil.

 

Good post. Yes, I have often thought about how fortunate I am to be born in a free country and to live in wealth (not by US standards but compared to most of the world).

 

One particularly impactful church sermon was a slide show our pastor showed of families across the world. They had all different families place all of their belongings in the front yard and take a picture. It was insane. Many of the families had only a few blankets and bowls. Then come to American and the yard is full with junk for entertainment. There's no doubt we live in a society of consumerism. Often at the expense of other countries and their freedom. Just think of the sweat shops in China so we can have our iphones etc. The list goes on. It is disheartening. It is one of the main reasons I volunteer in the community and tithe to the poor box at my church.

 

I have a hard time with war, especially all of these wars USA is fighting right now.

 

haha your post reminds me of a philosophy "joke".

 

A new student begins studying Descartes. Descartes was a philosopher who studied existence. I'm sure you've heard his famous line, "I think, therefore I am". Gets into metaphysics, i.e. how do we know their are other minds, how do you know your thoughts are real

 

René Descartes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Good vid of his work:

 

Well the student came crashing into the professors office distressed and physically exhausted from lamenting over Descartes' arguments...

 

Student: "Professor Do I exist!"

 

Professor: "Who's asking ;)"

 

(I ruined that haha)

[Forever Silent]

Does this mean that any belief can't expand outwards, converting or attracting new believers? Let's take human rights, as represented by the United Nations which began with 51 members and has grown to 193 member states. Wouldn't you say that since its inception, there has been some advancement in human rights issues for humanity?

 

I will not argue with the merits of the United Nations, while the idea of some form of universial peace organization would be a great start, United nations is not on my list as a nomination.

 

 

 

To Final Word, yes I am familiar with Descartes. I do not question my existence more so than I question why this existence if you understand where I am coming from.

[threebyfate]

I will not argue with the merits of the United Nations, while the idea of some form of universial peace organization would be a great start, United nations is not on my list as a nomination.

It's a baby step in the right direction. You're looking for the perfect solution or all is considered fail and must be deconstructed back down to inaction. That to me, is an untenable position.

[Forever Silent]

It's a baby step in the right direction. You're looking for the perfect solution or all is considered fail and must be deconstructed back down to inaction. That to me, is an untenable position.

 

Indeed, my position is one that at its roots is one of inaction, but only because I have loss faith in the direction that the majority of humanity is heading.

[threebyfate]

Indeed, my position is one that at its roots is one of inaction, but only because I have loss faith in the direction that the majority of humanity is heading.

Been reading Nietzsche again?

 

Only partially kidding. He has some valid points but his entire outlook on life is too bleak for my tastes. Try not to move too far in his direction or Schopenhauer's. Both lead to the path of dark narcissism where realistically, there's balance and acceptance of fallibility.

Edited August 13, 2012 by threebyfate