Girls Night Out. Again.

[NervisPervis]

It's 10:00 Saturday night and I don't know where my wife is right now.

 

What? What's with that look?

 

Oh, I get it. How funny. You think I came on here, wasting all of your time, just because my wife (she's 31) isn't home before 10:00 (22:00) on a Saturday night. That's cute. You'd expect me to say "midnight" or something. No, no. If the pattern continues tonight (as it has so far), she won't be home until 2:30. She will come home and brush her teeth. She will then lay down next to me and immediately get into that "it's bedtime: no talk, no touch, goodnight" position. And anything beyond "did you have a good time?" would be turned (by her) into a Gestapo interrogation. Thanks, but I know (or GREATLY suspect) what she's doing at 1:30. I may not know WHERE she's doing it, but I know what she's doing. It's earlier in the evening that bothers me.

 

The early part of the pattern is to let me know she's "going dancing" as late as possible that evening. The first time she went, about 3 -4 months ago, she was literally walking away from me to her friend's house when she uttered those words. They leave between 8:15 and 8:30PM. Always a Saturday night. I'm usually informed when I "catch her" showering and primping at about 7:30.

 

Now, I'm no clubber (nor was my wife 5 months ago, but I digress), but I greatly suspect that you can't stay at the same club for more than 3 or so hours before it gets old. And I KNOW you wouldn't show up to start dancing before 10:30. So where are they at 10:00? They're not at the club they said they'd be at (check that: the club she IMPLIES they'll be at by lack of full disclosure). I can't ask her. Interrogation, remember? You see, I am (WAS) one of the great majority of those husbands/fiancé's/boyfriends who have it INGRAINED IN THEIR PSYCHE'S to not be a wimp about their wife letting down her hair a little. After all, she'd just kicked out two babies for me. But I was still uncomfortable.

 

So after her third night out (tonight we're up to #6 since early May, but it's been every other week for the past month or so) I went to public forums such as this for help. I read current posts. But more importantly, I did key-word searches in the archives, uncovering MANY threads on the topic. I even searched the BIG web via Google with key-phrases that directed me to blog posts unrelated to relationship problems. Blog entries that started with "so me and my friends went clubbing last night and…". I slowly went from being a little worried to where I am now. Let's just say it was an education.

 

What I found out was that partying wives feast on men like me all the time. "Legitimized infidelity", one poster called it. "We're just going dancing". This thread is directly addressed to the "I go out all the time with my girlfriends and I would NEVER cheat on my husband, give her some slack, caveman" contingent. We all know you're out there, and we all know it happens. But I am specifically addressing the part of that contingent that will NOT follow that statement up with: "…but, I see where you're coming from".

 

There is a spectrum of behavior that is exhibited by clubbing/partying wives. My wife's behavior before and after her excursions puts her squarely on the side of that spectrum that presumes there was a lot of improper behavior. Time spent partying with a lot of men I'll never know, or even know about. If someone else was posting this I'd tell them it would be HIGHLY improbable that she never, at a MINIIMUM, even kissed anyone on one of these 6 nights. So please, all of you partying wives that are 100% "innocent" on your GNO's. Go ahead and call us men "Neanderthals", but PLEASE follow it up with "..but it could be improper. What other behaviors does she exhibit?". If their wives are on the side of the spectrum my wife is on, help them. Don't ridicule their fears.

 

So where is she at 10:00? I don't know. I do know that she doesn’t spend any money on these nights out. My research leads me to believe they fall in the "let's get drunk for free" crowd, with free even including the cover charge at the club she implies they're going to. I'm pretty sure they start at popular bars with no cover charges to find their ticket into the club. Then get to the clubs when they start hopping. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know what they're doing at 1:00 in the morning.

 

But what's going on at 10?

[Garfish]

Does she come home drunk? Does she ever have a "hickey" (I'm guessing not, since then you'd know, but maybe, without being obvious, you should look for those)? I was once involved with someone like your wife, years ago. You have every right to be unhappy and also to be suspicious. Maybe I missed something, but have you asked her if you can go along or is it always "girls night out"? Are you friends with any of the other women she hangs out with on these nights? Perhaps you could simply say hi to some of her female compatriots and watch their faces for guilty or avoidant cues. OTOH, they may have husbands too and be in on the deal so that might be useless.

 

Her attitude in bed with you after she comes home screams "defensive" to me. If I had to bet on it with no other information... well, you know what I'm saying. Maybe do some research on how you can catch her (without breaking any laws or giving yourself away).

Edited August 13, 2012 by Garfish

[Garfish]

One more thing. Is she on birth control? If not, take notice of the timing of her cycle. Do these party sessions happen when she may be ovulating? Google it.

[Stillgrowing]

You don't really want an opinion, unless it matches exactly with yours. For what it's worth (and I'm thinking not much with your attitude) I'm a bit older than your wife, I go out and party with friends. I rarely pay for drinks or cover. I have never so much as kissed another guy. I've never taken or given a phone number. My friends and I do talk to men. We don't lead them on, usually it's married guys and we end up talking kids, jobs, etc...sometimes we just drink, not crazy drunk but cocktails. But these aren't the stories you'll find on these forums or if you google clubbing bc it's not interesting and no one tells the uninteresting stories, they tell the cool, interesting fun ones. Grow a pair and ask her. Maybe she is screwing around but you won't be able to tell by asking randoms on a forum.

 

Sg

[Radu]

He did ask her.

 

And the frequency is worrying.

 

He has a right to be concerned, she is acting like a single woman.

 

I'd plant some spyware on her phone and a VAR in her car, but that's just me.

PI if you really can afford it.

[NervisPervis]

You don't really want an opinion, unless it matches exactly with yours. For what it's worth (and I'm thinking not much with your attitude) I'm a bit older than your wife, I go out and party with friends. I rarely pay for drinks or cover. I have never so much as kissed another guy. I've never taken or given a phone number. My friends and I do talk to men. We don't lead them on, usually it's married guys and we end up talking kids, jobs, etc...sometimes we just drink, not crazy drunk but cocktails. But these aren't the stories you'll find on these forums or if you google clubbing bc it's not interesting and no one tells the uninteresting stories, they tell the cool, interesting fun ones. Grow a pair and ask her. Maybe she is screwing around but you won't be able to tell by asking randoms on a forum.

 

Sg

 

Did you read all of my post? I directed some of it to exactly you. Do you act like my wife does? Are you secretive with your husband? Do you NOT tell him where you went and what you did? Do you give him advance notice that you're going or do you sneak out at the last minute then say nothing when you get back? Why did you do EXACTLY what I asked you not to do and just call me a caveman without saying "but yeah, I've seen some prety sketchy behavior by married women at these bars. And combined with the way she acts, I'd say..." And before I post the rest, I'll say it's ALWAYS just her and her one married wingwoman. There never is a group of them. Just two hot chcks hitting the clubs and not telling heir husbands what they do there.

 

Then there's this:

 

I go out and party with friends. I rarely pay for drinks or cover...My friends and I do talk to men. We don't lead them on, usually it's married guys...

Sg

 

Maybe I want my wife to have different boundaries than your husband does with you, but the description of your night is almost EXACTLY what I fear from my wife. You don't lead them on? I don't understand that. You fish for free drinks from strange men at meat markets who are there to get laid and it's not leading them on? How many men have you been approached by that didn't think those drinks were going to get them in bed? Never mind, I'll answer for you: NONE. And you ACCEPTING them led them on even more. And you WEREN'T leading them on? And you tell your husband about all of these men you party with and he's OK with it?

 

Grow a pair and ask her.

Sg

 

Again, thanks for insulting me when I'm asking for help. I'll say it again: "husbands/fiancé's/boyfriends who have it INGRAINED IN THEIR PSYCHE'S to not be a wimp about their wife letting down her hair a little." Just like you called me a controlling nenderthal, men in my situation are cuckolded to just accept it or be labeled a jealous freak. I've read it on other posts. Wives that come home from GNO's a LOT worse than my wife's (questionable friends, no communication while out, no sex at home, obvious lies about what they've done and where they've been, home at 6:00 the next morning because they just needed to "sleep it off" at some guys house they just met) coming on these forums asking if they shoudl be worried.

 

You are the perfect wife. I'll give you that. But can't you accept that you may be the exception and not the rule?

[serialgf]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/cheating-flirting-jealousy/219827-girls-night-out <--- your post 2 years ago on the same topic

 

So, Nervis, what has happened in the last 2 years? Has this been an ongoing thing since then or did she stop and then recently start up again? Were there any things/strategies that helped you 2 years ago that maybe you could employ again?

[NervisPervis]

As soon as I saw that my old post was referenced at the bottom of this thread, I knew I'd get busted. This all happened many years ago. Many more than 2 years ago even. My wife never discussed it with me. We left it, one week after this post SHOULD HAVE been written, with (and I'm paraphrasing) "you won’t let me have a life outside of our marriage". Cue door slamming in my face. Discussion over. Me suppressing it for many, many years.

 

You see, the morning after I SHOULD HAVE written that post, I was cleaning the house while she slept in and found a man's name and phone number on a piece of paper from a bar I never knew she went to. Oh, it was all innocent, of course. She started feeding me an excuse the night before. She knew he'd call her because she gave him our home number also. Leaving that number for me to find was part of her plan to wiggle out of it. His band was really good. She thought I'd like them. I didn’t say anything about the phone number. I let her squirm. He called a week later to set up the date (I answered, which was her fear, of course). She called him back to get specifics. Big argument, door slams. Done. No closure. But the partying stopped, of course. The façade of "it's all innocent" was gone.

 

I got on with my life. Oh, it would pop back into my head every now and then. But I'd struggle for a week or two then get back to normal. But that cycle went on for too long. And when, almost 3 years ago it hit me again (Can you imagine the triggers if your problem is a bar-hopping wife? TV, movies, driving past the clubs she used to whor…, excuse me, visit), I figured it had to stop. I went on these forums. Kind of drove myself a little crazy obsessing over it. I confronted her again a little before that old thread of mine.

 

She doesn't remember. No closure. It's final. God help me if I bring it up again.

 

I don’t know HOW anyone can read my current thread and still, knowing fully how my wife behaved around all of this, can say it could POSSIBLY have been innocent. Why was she so sneaky and secretive? I went 10 years of her NEVER ONCE wanting to go out dancing. The first time I hear about it is when I'm seeing her back as she finishes her "I'm going dancing with X" proclamation. Two toddlers at home. One not even a year old. Is that the way someone discusses a night out if it was supposed to be innocent? My point is the secretive nature of this didn’t start because she was tired of my grilling. The sneakiness started before I ever even knew it was going to happen.

 

Why do you clubbing gals have to defend your hobby so? Not even entertaining the possibility that she could have been acting inappropriately. You KNOW how many women act when they are out. Don’t you think my wife's profile fits one that could indicate inappropriate activity? Why do you and your brethren not help men like me? You have the answers we seek, but instead of helping us you call us cavemen. I don’t get that. My theory is that you're NOT as innocent as you portray to your husbands and do all you can to keep the "innocent girls dancing in a man-free bubble" façade going as best you can. I truly don’t get it.

 

I'm sorry I lied about the specifics. But it is still a big problem for me. And it's a big problem for A LOT of men who's wives are soaking up the sexual attention of men while their husbands/fiancé's/boyfriends are cuckolded into thinking it's wrong to have a problem with it. Why don't you help us? Besides my near insanity and wife not giving a crap, that type of attitude has played the biggest part in my non-closure of this issue. I take one step forward then two back when these threads turn into a "get over, it knuckle dragger" tirade against me.

 

I know it's all about communication now. I know it's all about my current relationship with my wife. But I can only think of the "OMG, they do that with STRANGERS while still IN THE CLUBS?" type posts I've read. If anyone has a magic formula to help me. I'll take it. Otherwise, thanks for listening.

 

And I'm sorry for lying.

[NervisPervis]

You left a LOT out of your first post now didn't you?

 

Not really a lot. Something big, yes. But right through my description of 6 nights of questionable behavior, you were calling me a caveman. My description of events up to writing that original post didn't include her hooking up. I didn't know it had happened yet. My description of events was 100% accurate and up to date and you were calling me a paranoid freak.

 

For 3 months I was doing exactly what you said I should do. Let her go and not talk about it. But AFTER I do that, and she exchanges numbers with a man...what exactly?

 

And her not wanting to talk at two-thirty AM because she's tired is a big stretch. She can grind her crotch on another man's thigh at two, but a half hour later she's too tired to talk about it?

 

So you chastise me for two days then say "oops, sorry, I guess it might have been how you described it" and that's it? That's fine. It's a public forum and you don't owe me jack. But please remember this and cool of before emasculating a man just because you don't feel a married woman stringing along strange men in meat markets for free drinks is a type of infidelity. I understand your husband is fine with it. Most, I'd guess, aren't.

[FryFish]

So yes, that's the truth.... but not every girl that's out clubbing is out there for that, some are just there for the fun and dance moves, and girley type drinks with umbrellas in them.

Its been my personal experience that MOST women will **** on their "girls nights out"...

[NervisPervis]

LFH. I don't want you to leave my thread. And I was paraphrasing when I said you called me a caveman. But you did imply that I was a bit of a Neanderthal for being uncomfortable with my wife's activities. And maybe you really didn't see where I was describing her as being sneaky and noncommunicative. And I would really like to know your thought pattern behind defending her when I pretty clearly spelled out what was going on.

 

And it is unfortunate that this turned into a woman bashing thread. I didn't mean for that to happen. I'm still struggling with this and I fear I will for a long time. I truly believe my wife was unfaithful to me to some degree those many years ago. Minimum, it was a lot of heavy firting and partying with men I'll never know about. Not telling me about it makes it infidelity. It is hard to believe she didn't kiss someone. Maybe many someone's. Second or third base is not out of the question. Probable even. And I can't do anything about it now.

[2sure]

I'm older now and have no interest in going out every Saturday night or clubbing.But, I did. For years . Both when I was single and married. I'm in NY, so it would be until morning. Oh, and many times my girlfriends and I were crazy drunk. And Ive always loved getting dressed. We enjoyed plenty of attention .

 

 

It was about having fun, getting attention, getting dressed up, having cocktails, and dancing. It wasn't about men.

[NervisPervis]

It was about having fun, getting attention, getting dressed up, having cocktails, and dancing. It wasn't about men.

 

Is there a chance that it WAS about the men with my wife? How about the way she acted? Why didn't she talk to me about it then? Why won't she talk to me about it now? Why wouldn't she even tell me where she was going? Where she went?

 

Thank you for your input, but we've accepted that some women can go out and tramp around at meat markets and have it be innocent. We've also acepted that some aren't so much.

 

What does your post tell me? Why did you bother replying? What do you tell your husband about these nights out? Does he ask? Are you secretive? Do you EVER do anything you wouldn't want him to see?

 

THAT would help me.

[Garfish]

Wow 2 toddlers at home... and she's out all night Saturdays...

 

Well it sure sounds bad for you. I wouldn't have hung around after the incident 2 years ago, but then I'm not you. I feel for ya bro. Thing is, if she really isn't cheating, she's still not spending time with you. Maybe you two need to get a babysitter and you need to get your butt into a dance class? Anyways good luck, whatever you decide to do.

 

To the poster suggesting the all night mixed sex golf club with a bar... sounds like a good business model!

[Gunny376]

It's 10:00 Saturday night and I don't know where my wife is right now.

 

What? What's with that look?

 

Oh, I get it. How funny. You think I came on here, wasting all of your time, just because my wife (she's 31) isn't home before 10:00 (22:00) on a Saturday night. That's cute. You'd expect me to say "midnight" or something. No, no. If the pattern continues tonight (as it has so far), she won't be home until 2:30. She will come home and brush her teeth. She will then lay down next to me and immediately get into that "it's bedtime: no talk, no touch, goodnight" position. And anything beyond "did you have a good time?" would be turned (by her) into a Gestapo interrogation. Thanks, but I know (or GREATLY suspect) what she's doing at 1:30. I may not know WHERE she's doing it, but I know what she's doing. It's earlier in the evening that bothers me.

 

The early part of the pattern is to let me know she's "going dancing" as late as possible that evening. The first time she went, about 3 -4 months ago, she was literally walking away from me to her friend's house when she uttered those words. They leave between 8:15 and 8:30PM. Always a Saturday night. I'm usually informed when I "catch her" showering and primping at about 7:30.

 

Now, I'm no clubber (nor was my wife 5 months ago, but I digress), but I greatly suspect that you can't stay at the same club for more than 3 or so hours before it gets old. And I KNOW you wouldn't show up to start dancing before 10:30. So where are they at 10:00? They're not at the club they said they'd be at (check that: the club she IMPLIES they'll be at by lack of full disclosure). I can't ask her. Interrogation, remember? You see, I am (WAS) one of the great majority of those husbands/fiancé's/boyfriends who have it INGRAINED IN THEIR PSYCHE'S to not be a wimp about their wife letting down her hair a little. After all, she'd just kicked out two babies for me. But I was still uncomfortable.

 

So after her third night out (tonight we're up to #6 since early May, but it's been every other week for the past month or so) I went to public forums such as this for help. I read current posts. But more importantly, I did key-word searches in the archives, uncovering MANY threads on the topic. I even searched the BIG web via Google with key-phrases that directed me to blog posts unrelated to relationship problems. Blog entries that started with "so me and my friends went clubbing last night and…". I slowly went from being a little worried to where I am now. Let's just say it was an education.

 

What I found out was that partying wives feast on men like me all the time. "Legitimized infidelity", one poster called it. "We're just going dancing". This thread is directly addressed to the "I go out all the time with my girlfriends and I would NEVER cheat on my husband, give her some slack, caveman" contingent. We all know you're out there, and we all know it happens. But I am specifically addressing the part of that contingent that will NOT follow that statement up with: "…but, I see where you're coming from".

 

There is a spectrum of behavior that is exhibited by clubbing/partying wives. My wife's behavior before and after her excursions puts her squarely on the side of that spectrum that presumes there was a lot of improper behavior. Time spent partying with a lot of men I'll never know, or even know about. If someone else was posting this I'd tell them it would be HIGHLY improbable that she never, at a MINIIMUM, even kissed anyone on one of these 6 nights. So please, all of you partying wives that are 100% "innocent" on your GNO's. Go ahead and call us men "Neanderthals", but PLEASE follow it up with "..but it could be improper. What other behaviors does she exhibit?". If their wives are on the side of the spectrum my wife is on, help them. Don't ridicule their fears.

 

So where is she at 10:00? I don't know. I do know that she doesn’t spend any money on these nights out. My research leads me to believe they fall in the "let's get drunk for free" crowd, with free even including the cover charge at the club she implies they're going to. I'm pretty sure they start at popular bars with no cover charges to find their ticket into the club. Then get to the clubs when they start hopping. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know what they're doing at 1:00 in the morning.

 

But what's going on at 10?

 

This is how my twelve year marriage came to an end. First it was just one girls night out on Friday night ~ then it was every Friday night, then every Saturday night, then every Sunday night, then every Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday night!!!

 

This was back in the late eighties and early nineties. Didn't have spit to do with dancing ~ it had to do with getting attention from other men. It had to do with her own insecurity about turning thirty-something. It had to do with seeing "if she still had it" i.e. that she could still turn a man's head.

 

It has to do with being selfish, self-centered, narcissistic, insecure, a lack of self confidence in one's self, seeking validation in someone else.

 

Mrs. Gunny doesn't do the dancing ~ club thing. In so far as I know she's never stepped foot into a bar, gone dancing in her entire life.

 

I can tell you this much and for sure and certain. She hadn't best just even give me a reason. I'd put her trash to the curb and have the locks changed on any and everything faster than you could say Mississippi!

 

Having gone through what you're going through? I'd go DefCon 4 on her azz in a freaking heartbeat! Forget being called Neanderthal, I'd go down right ape on her.

[Gunny376]

It's been my experience that some, far from most, might... but as this seems to be an "all women are whores" thread I'll bow out now. Good luck to the OP

 

Doesn't have anything to do with "all women are whores" It has to do with RESPECT, being a wife, being a mother to your children.

[Gunny376]

Wow 2 toddlers at home... and she's out all night Saturdays...

 

Well it sure sounds bad for you. I wouldn't have hung around after the incident 2 years ago, but then I'm not you. I feel for ya bro. Thing is, if she really isn't cheating, she's still not spending time with you. Maybe you two need to get a babysitter and you need to get your butt into a dance class? Anyways good luck, whatever you decide to do.

 

To the poster suggesting the all night mixed sex golf club with a bar... sounds like a good business model!

 

She'd freaking FREAK if he all of a sudden he would want to go with her! Not necessarly has to do with cheating ~ per say ~ has to do with flirting, getting attention from the younger boys, studs, seeing if she's still got what it takes to turn their heads.

 

Its about her own insecurity, lack of self confidence, self esteem, self centerness, selfishness, etc.

[Gunny376]

I'm older now and have no interest in going out every Saturday night or clubbing.But, I did. For years . Both when I was single and married. I'm in NY, so it would be until morning. Oh, and many times my girlfriends and I were crazy drunk. And Ive always loved getting dressed. We enjoyed plenty of attention .

 

 

It was about having fun, getting attention, getting dressed up, having cocktails, and dancing. It wasn't about men.

 

I rest my case!

Edited August 14, 2012 by Gunny376
To add

[scatterd]

I can see woman going out together having a few drinks and dancing for fun. I did it when I was younger and was not looking to get layed. That was not always the case with some woman. I understand your concern with how secretive she is being? She should talk to you ahead of time, also let you know who with, where, when she plans to comes home, and call if she is running late.That is plain common courtesy. When you ask where she is going, she needs to be there and allow you to drop in if you like. Also, if you are uncomfortable with her doing this, she should talk about it with you, and figure out something else. She may not be doing anything wrong, but she is giving you reason to think she is. I would tell her that. I hope she is not doing what you are thinking and will do what is best for your marriage.

[NervisPervis]

What's most interesting about this thread, is how easily so many posters rationalizing the GNO phenomena are basically lying about the real point of them.

 

That's right, lying about it.

 

Of course lying and cheating go together like apple pie and cheddar cheese.

 

Thank you for posting that. I've been struggling with this issue for years, and the rationalizers consistently state things that just don’t make sense. I have a theory if you care to hear it:

 

Let's imagine a parallel universe. Maybe the big asteroid hits earth a few million years later and life develops differently. In that universe, I'm a big stamp collector. Stamp collecting is fun in this parallel universe. Local stamp events are always happening in your area and there's an event almost every weekend. I can go to any one I want. I see all kinds of cool stamps and talk to a bunch of cool stamp people. Now, because this hobby has gotten so popular, a lot of people have gotten into it. A lot of single and married ladies like to go to these things. There's alcohol, music. Everyone has grown up knowing that if you want to party and meet chicks, just find one of these events. Some have called them Stamp Meat and Greet Markets because of that.

 

I like stamps. I like them A LOT. And it doesn't hurt that there are a lot of loose women around and the pickings are easy. My wife doesn't collect so she doesn’t want to go, and quite frankly, I don't encourage her. Is it my fault that there are a lot of horny women there? No. But I'm not dead either. I chat them up. We flirt. go out for drinks afterwards. There may be some drunken kisses, but it doesn’t mean anything. That's not WHY I go, but it's one heck of an added benefit. Yes, some collectors I know have gotten caught up in it and taken it too far, but I'm careful.

 

So, anyhow, I'm now on relationship forums. I see some women posting things like. "My husband has recently gotten into stamp collecting. I trust him and all, but these events are known for hooking up and I'm worried. Should I confront"? Well, I see a lifestyle I've gotten pretty accustomed to getting attacked. What am I going to do? I'm going to respond and say "HOW DARE YOU attack the wholesome hobby of stamp collecting just because your little Neanderthal brain can't handle your husband going out. I've been collecting for years and…"

 

You see, I REALLY like stamp collecting and the added bennies and I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to let some anonymous poster ruin it for me. I'm going to scare future wives off from posting the same thing. I need to protect my territory. I DO NOT need my wife figuring out that all these women love older, heavier, balding stamp collectors. I need her sitting home obediently thinking she's a cavewoman for even QUESTIONING my intent.

 

That's my theory anyhow.

[Plan 9 from OS]

My wife will go out with other girlfriends from time to time; however, she is well grounded and understands that she is a wife and mother FIRST. Her GNO's are normally out to dinner, go back to a friend's house to talk, go see a movie, etc. The latest she would come home is 11 pm, and that is rare. She'll go out maybe 1 - 3 times in a month, and normally these times out last no longer than 4 hours. NFW would I ever let her go out somewhere to go dancing unless I'm going too. In reality, Friday and Saturday nights should be reserved for date nights first and foremost. Maybe on occasion we separate and go out with friends; however, more most of your social outings with friends should be as couples IMO. The spouses that play together stay together.

 

NFW would I ever let her go to a club or bar hopping on Fri & Sat nights. We all know what these places really are - they're meat markets. I equate married women going to clubs in the same way as I see married men going to strip clubs. The only difference is that a married woman at a club has a better chance of hooking up with a random guy than a married guy at a strip club.

[pteromom]

But if she was going out, let's say dancing up a storm, flirting with guys, or at least feeling sexy, but it was innocent, the natural reaction to that kind of stimulation would be to come home and jump her husband's bones, not give him the cold shoulder.

 

Not if he gives her a bunch of grief about going out. Yes, if he happily watched her walk out the door and was happy to see her when she got home, much bone jumping would commence.

 

But if she feels like every time she goes out dancing, she's making some sort of stand for her own happiness against his wishes, jumping his bones would be the last thing she'd want to do.

[pteromom]

Stamp collecting is fun in this parallel universe... A lot of single and married ladies like to go to these things...I like stamps. I like them A LOT. ...There may be some drunken kisses, but it doesn’t mean anything. That's not WHY I go, but it's one heck of an added benefit. You see, I REALLY like stamp collecting and the added bennies.

 

Except in your example, you are not going just for stamp collecting. It may have started that way, but you are kissing women and flirting and noticing all the loose women. The "added bennies" have become part of the reason for going.

 

Most married women who go on GNO are not going for men. Sure, there are SOME who like to flirt, and SOME who even cheat and share drunken kisses. But for most of us, we like to dance. We like to let loose and have fun with our girlfriends. Sometimes, there may be an attractive guy, but we just giggle about him and his advances - nobody actually goes home with him or anything.

 

The question is - is your wife trustworthy? If she isn't, whether she goes out dancing or just meets a cute guy at work, she'll cheat. If she is, it won't matter if Brad Pitt buys her a drink at the bar, because she won't do anything improper.

 

My guess is the reason she doesn't tell you when or where she is going is because it just leads to a fight. So rather than share that part of her life with you, she just shuts you out of it. It's easier to just do what she wants rather than fight about it every time. I could be wrong.

 

Your wife is either a cheater or she isn't. But dancing doesn't turn someone into a cheater.

[serial muse]

As soon as I saw that my old post was referenced at the bottom of this thread, I knew I'd get busted. This all happened many years ago. Many more than 2 years ago even. My wife never discussed it with me. We left it, one week after this post SHOULD HAVE been written, with (and I'm paraphrasing) "you won’t let me have a life outside of our marriage". Cue door slamming in my face. Discussion over. Me suppressing it for many, many years.

 

You see, the morning after I SHOULD HAVE written that post, I was cleaning the house while she slept in and found a man's name and phone number on a piece of paper from a bar I never knew she went to. Oh, it was all innocent, of course. She started feeding me an excuse the night before. She knew he'd call her because she gave him our home number also. Leaving that number for me to find was part of her plan to wiggle out of it. His band was really good. She thought I'd like them. I didn’t say anything about the phone number. I let her squirm. He called a week later to set up the date (I answered, which was her fear, of course). She called him back to get specifics. Big argument, door slams. Done. No closure. But the partying stopped, of course. The façade of "it's all innocent" was gone.

 

I got on with my life. Oh, it would pop back into my head every now and then. But I'd struggle for a week or two then get back to normal. But that cycle went on for too long. And when, almost 3 years ago it hit me again (Can you imagine the triggers if your problem is a bar-hopping wife? TV, movies, driving past the clubs she used to whor…, excuse me, visit), I figured it had to stop. I went on these forums. Kind of drove myself a little crazy obsessing over it. I confronted her again a little before that old thread of mine.

 

She doesn't remember. No closure. It's final. God help me if I bring it up again.

 

I don’t know HOW anyone can read my current thread and still, knowing fully how my wife behaved around all of this, can say it could POSSIBLY have been innocent. Why was she so sneaky and secretive? I went 10 years of her NEVER ONCE wanting to go out dancing. The first time I hear about it is when I'm seeing her back as she finishes her "I'm going dancing with X" proclamation. Two toddlers at home. One not even a year old. Is that the way someone discusses a night out if it was supposed to be innocent? My point is the secretive nature of this didn’t start because she was tired of my grilling. The sneakiness started before I ever even knew it was going to happen.

 

Why do you clubbing gals have to defend your hobby so? Not even entertaining the possibility that she could have been acting inappropriately. You KNOW how many women act when they are out. Don’t you think my wife's profile fits one that could indicate inappropriate activity? Why do you and your brethren not help men like me? You have the answers we seek, but instead of helping us you call us cavemen. I don’t get that. My theory is that you're NOT as innocent as you portray to your husbands and do all you can to keep the "innocent girls dancing in a man-free bubble" façade going as best you can. I truly don’t get it.

 

I'm sorry I lied about the specifics. But it is still a big problem for me. And it's a big problem for A LOT of men who's wives are soaking up the sexual attention of men while their husbands/fiancé's/boyfriends are cuckolded into thinking it's wrong to have a problem with it. Why don't you help us? Besides my near insanity and wife not giving a crap, that type of attitude has played the biggest part in my non-closure of this issue. I take one step forward then two back when these threads turn into a "get over, it knuckle dragger" tirade against me.

 

I know it's all about communication now. I know it's all about my current relationship with my wife. But I can only think of the "OMG, they do that with STRANGERS while still IN THE CLUBS?" type posts I've read. If anyone has a magic formula to help me. I'll take it. Otherwise, thanks for listening.

 

And I'm sorry for lying.

 

OP, it's clear you're still really angry about this, obviously because you didn't get closure. I can't really speak for other people in the thread, but I'm a woman, I like to dance, I've never cheated, and I don't think what your wife did was OK. I agree with you that the lying and evading and collecting of a phone number is shady at the very least. And I honestly doubt that the other women who've replied here wouldn't see that the exact same way. Speaking for myself, quite frankly, I suspect she cheated on you. Or was well on the way to; her intentions don't appear to have been innocent, and if they were, she certainly wouldn't have called that guy back.

 

But see, in your opening post you were already kind of hostile, so it's hard to get past that to understand what you really want to know. Women here are saying "girls' night out is not necessarily about cheating" and you're saying "but why can't you admit that it probably is" and they're saying "well it wasn't in my case, what do you want from me?"

 

I guess my point is, yes, I think what your wife did to you sucks. But, you know, I'm not going to take any ownership of it or relate it to my life or evenings out with female friends because her bad choices don't have anything to do with me, and I don't care to defend them through the lens of myself. If what you're seeking is validation for thinking something's off, you got it. It's the sneaking and lying and collecting phone number (not in your original post, let me remind you) that makes that obvious. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of attached women who go to these places to get hit on. I'm sure there are. There are also plenty who don't. So the dancing, in and of itself, is a red herring. And I think, if you can get past the fears that people are calling you a caveman, you'll understand that that's what the majority of women who've responded defensively here are also saying.

 

TL;DR: Your wife's lies and shady behavior are, yes, shady.

 

But what now? This is still bothering you, two years later, but you say there's nothing you can do because she refuses to discuss it. And yet it's clearly tearing you up and you have a LOT of anger about it. I'm not going to say it's not deserved; were I you, I'd feel the same way, probably. But all the internet validation in the world for your anger isn't going to make your problem at home go away. What can we do to really help??

Edited August 14, 2012 by serial muse

[pteromom]

I don't think a wife with a healthy attitude toward her marriage would want to spend her prime "entertainment" hours away from her husband.

 

A person with a healthy attitude toward life has many interests, and many things that fill them up. They do not look to only their spouse to keep them happy.

 

Clearly you just described a hateful wife who would use denial of sex (after she denied her husband her companionship for the evening) to punish him for honestly expressing his feelings about her carousing.

 

Ummmmmmm. No. Relationships are more complex than that. Each of us wants to feel loved, accepted as we are, and appreciated in a relationship. If one isn't feeling that way, it follows that they don't want sex. You can't force yourself to want sex with someone who is trying to control you or pout every time you do something for yourself. Not saying that's the case with this poster; we are only getting his side, so it is absolutely possible his wife is just a selfish cheater. I don't know. I'm just offering another possibility.