Sex Frequency/Turning Down Sex

[eyelessshiver]

I think there have been threads about this before, but was hoping for a personalized response. I am in a long-term, committed relationship (we consider one another 'life partners') and I would rate our sex life about an 8.5/10. I don't want us to suffer from sexual frustrations, and there is always room for improvement, so I am interested in asking help from people with more experience in this area.

 

In any case, after brief research online, I have seen people post all kinds of numbers for their preferred frequency of sex, everywhere from many times a day to once a week or so. Somewhere in the middle seems right to me.

 

We are both young, so I figure there should be no physical reason why we can't become aroused at almost any given time. Like most men, it happens more quickly for me (less foreplay required) but I figure that being young and filled with energy, our sex drives should be about equal.

 

In the past, I have turned down sex, mostly because she seems to want it late at night or in the middle of the night when I am completely exhausted, groggy, drunk, a bit grumpy, etc. I usually want it any other time. Generally, we are both up for it, and she will often come onto me first, but she has confessed to me that sometimes she just isn't in the mood. I feel bad when this happens, because she wants to still spend time in an intimate setting (hanging out in the bed), without being decisive or clear about whether we will have sex (saying she doesn't know if she wants to).

 

Thus I sometimes feel led on or teased, like she is holding out on me. This causes me to pull back, but then she feels that all I want is sex, yet if she doesn't want it, then I feel rejected. So at least a couple times, she seems to have had sex with me by me twisting her arm (acting hurt that she doesn't want me, threatening to go home), just to keep me there with her so we can spend (non-sexual) time together.

 

I hate to put pressure on her, and am sure there is a way we can make this work, so neither of us is sexually frustrated. She says sex should only happen when both people want it, and it's always okay to turn the other down. I think that it's nice to save the other's feelings by trying to get turned on a bit, even if you aren't 'in the mood' right that moment. I have tried to adopt an attitude lately that I will never turn her down, in effort to strengthen our relationship and not cause her to feel rejected. It used to be that I would sometimes be too intoxicated to perform sexually, so I would turn her down...but have since stopped the alcohol abuse.

 

I tend to feel that just a few times a week is on the low side. I usually prefer at least every other day. If we don't sleep together, I often feel the need to masturbate. Her sex drive seems to happen in waves. Sometimes it is very strong and she is all over me, sometimes she is pretty cold. I think I would prefer consistency to this unpredictability. Like I say, the sex is mostly good and I think we are both fairly satisfied. I do sense maybe I am more attracted to her than she is to me, but she assures me that's not the case. I don't want to feel like I am always pursuing her. That's not how it is now, but I can see her becoming more inhibited or non-sexual as the years go on. I tend to become aroused if we are cuddling or kissing, and thus it seems natural for us to move towards sex, but she seems content to sometimes approach sex and then virtually turn me down (she has even taken her shirt off and put it back on). I might be the one who needs work. Maybe I just need to learn more about the art of romance, I don't know.

 

Can anyone offer some helpful thoughts along these lines? Thank you!

[eyelessshiver]

Thanks for your advice.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I wouldn't issue any ultimatums over this. I think once a week is pretty decent. Yeah I could go every other day...but from my undestanding most women aren't interested in that much sex. Maybe when she's just come off her period she will be, even more so actually. I think people don't account for a woman's cycle enough when talking about frequency. It's not like every week can be the same.

 

Generally my experience:

Menstration week: no sex..though in the last few years my ex would sometimes actually get pretty horny during this time.

Week1 after: Most sex, maybe multiple times a day the first couple days, tapering off.

Week2 after. About once. She's most "normal" during this time period.

Week before (premenstrual): Maybe once right before the period starts...but generally this week is a "stay away from me" week.

 

Also month to month varies. Some months might be cooled off, then a month later you return to it with a passion

[eyelessshiver]

It's important for her to know what my needs are, but I am not sure I have any fixed *needs* in this regard. I guess I could say that I would prefer sex at a certain rate, but that's negotiable. I don't need sex whenever I want it. Interestingly, she recently came off her period and says that the week after menstruation, she is not in the mood. Maybe it's different for different women. Well, I guess maybe I should learn to deal with a little rejection here and there. Then again, I don't care for her attitude of 'gosh, we have sex a lot, don't we?' even when it's getting to be like 2-3 days a week.

[CarrieT]

We are both young, so I figure there should be no physical reason why we can't become aroused at almost any given time.

Your first fallacy. Youth and desire have little in common. In my late 20s, I rarely desired sex and could barely get arouse but now, in my late 40s, can easily get excited.

 

Like most men, it happens more quickly for me (less foreplay required) but I figure that being young and filled with energy, our sex drives should be about equal.

Again, you are making assumptions that are not necessarily always true. There are old people who have raging sex drives and youngsters who barely have any.

 

In the past, I have turned down sex, mostly because she seems to want it late at night or in the middle of the night when I am completely exhausted, groggy, drunk, a bit grumpy, etc. I usually want it any other time.

Here is where I see your communication starting to break down. You have an excuse for when/why you don't want sex but seem perturbed at the when/why SHE doesn't want sex.

 

she wants to still spend time in an intimate setting (hanging out in the bed), without being decisive or clear about whether we will have sex (saying she doesn't know if she wants to).

 

Thus I sometimes feel led on or teased, like she is holding out on me.

This is critical!!! Many women want physical intimacy (hanging out in bed) with just holding, touching, kissing without intercourse. This makes you feel teased like "she is holding out" while I'm willing to bet that then she feels "pressured to giving in" when she just wanted to be close to you.

 

So at least a couple times, she seems to have had sex with me by me twisting her arm (acting hurt that she doesn't want me, threatening to go home), just to keep me there with her so we can spend (non-sexual) time together.

Yep. I just wrote that above. It is about being close and intimate emotionally and physically without it necessarily being sexual.

 

I hate to put pressure on her

Then don't.

 

She says sex should only happen when both people want it, and it's always okay to turn the other down. I think that it's nice to save the other's feelings by trying to get turned on a bit, even if you aren't 'in the mood' right that moment.

We recently had a VERY lengthy thread debating about whether a wife (or any partner) is obligated to put out here. There is no consensus other than open and honest communication is key.

 

I tend to feel that just a few times a week is on the low side. I usually prefer at least every other day.

Does she know this?

 

Her sex drive seems to happen in waves. Sometimes it is very strong and she is all over me, sometimes she is pretty cold.

I have been like this in my 30+ years of sexual activity; there are times where I want it more than once a day and times when I can go a month or two and not care.

 

I think I would prefer consistency to this unpredictability.

I don't think that is possible. Are you prepared to live without consistency?

 

That's not how it is now, but I can see her becoming more inhibited or non-sexual as the years go on.

Again - communicate, communicate, communicate.... It is possible to be prepared for periods of non-activity if you two are openly talking about one's emotional/sexual needs. It is certainly normal to go through that.

 

 

she seems content to sometimes approach sex and then virtually turn me down (she has even taken her shirt off and put it back on).

I think you are mistaking sexual advancement for the mere desire for affection and intimacy.

 

 

I might be the one who needs work. Maybe I just need to learn more about the art of romance, I don't know.

I'm not sure it is just romance, but from what you wrote, I believe you both need to learn more about the art of communication and how to be in a relationship. It is constant work to be honest and upfront about your needs - be it sexual, emotional, physical, intellectual, etc.

 

If those needs are not getting met on any level, you have learn to be able to express that. She also has to learn how to express those needs and for neither of you to pass judgement about those needs.

 

Assess if you are able to meet her needs and she needs to do the same. My BF knows that I am more desirous of sex than he is, but we have worked out that much of my desire comes from the need for physical intimacy. I am therefore often satisfied with extra cuddling or kissing, without him having to perform or without the "Big O" at the end. It isn't always about the orgasm, but just being close.

 

 

I hope this helps.

[xxoo]

Like most men, it happens more quickly for me (less foreplay required) but I figure that being young and filled with energy, our sex drives should be about equal.

 

As others have pointed out, women's sex drives generally wax and wane more than men's. Mine is overall high, but can be affected by time of the month or how close or distant I am feeling to my partner.

 

Also, some people have higher sex drives than others. Just because she is young doesn't mean her drive will be high. If it is low now, it may be even lower later.

 

 

I think that it's nice to save the other's feelings by trying to get turned on a bit, even if you aren't 'in the mood' right that moment.

 

It sounds like that may be what she is trying to do here, but still not getting turned on in the end:

 

but she seems content to sometimes approach sex and then virtually turn me down (she has even taken her shirt off and put it back on).

 

This is critical!!! Many women want physical intimacy (hanging out in bed) with just holding, touching, kissing without intercourse. This makes you feel teased like "she is holding out" while I'm willing to bet that then she feels "pressured to giving in" when she just wanted to be close to you.

 

Carrie is right on here. Just like many men need sex to feel loved, many women need times of closeness and snuggling (without sex) to feel loved.

 

Overall, I think you may be attaching too much meaning to times when she doesn't want sex. Would you want her to go through with sex when she is not aroused?

 

Have you tried seducing her in bed? My H and I both do this to each other. "Oh, you're tired? It's ok. Go to sleep. I'll just hold you." Meanwhile, hands wander and touch and caress, and soon the sleepy person is responding with little moans, and things progress nicely from there. Or, sometimes they fall asleep, which is ok, too

[eyelessshiver]

Both of the last comments help.

 

Well, seducing her almost always works. I think sometimes I don't like to have to do that work, though. I am the more seductive one in the relationship, I have mostly pursued, she has mostly been a little evasive. That dynamic changes if I hold back, but I don't enjoy doing that very much, because her pacing tends to be a bit slow for me. It makes me feel like I am 'waiting around'. Yet, I think she wants 'closeness' more than I do, of the emotional variety, not physical. I have this attitude of 'if we are going to spend time together, why not do it all? emotional, sexual, intellectual, and physical intimacy/enjoyment' whereas she seems to separate them more. 'Do we always have to have sex?', 'Is the only reason you are here to sleep with me? can't we just have a good time?', 'well, if that's the only thing that will make you happy, I guess I have to sleep with you'. I have trouble separating these elements (love/friendship/intimacy/sex), she has trouble seeing them as altogether.

 

Thanks for drawing attention to these issues. She and I are both perhaps a bit stubborn, wanting each other to take on our opinion. I think that you are right, communication will really be the key in resolving some of these. She is not *too* undersexed for me, though I do take it personally when she doesn't seem to match my level of arousal. I *think* if I am patient, I can make it work out for both of us. She has a very indecisive attitude; "Do you think you might like to have sex?" If she wants to, it is no issue, we just take off our clothes and go for it. Sometimes she will initiate in this way, just asking me openly to have sex with her. If she doesn't exactly want to, she says something like "Oh, you mean right now? Honestly, I am not in the mood right this second". "Well, how about later tonight?" I will ask, and she might respond, "I have no idea how I will feel later tonight". It would be great for me if she could say "Yes, I think I will want to later" or "No, probably not". Maybe you can get a sense for how I feel a little bit pathetic and unappreciated when she acts sort of indifferent towards me, unexcited. Yet she will complement me on my looks, how sexy I am, will be a bit sentimental maybe, kind, friendly, etc., but not be straightforward when I ask about sex. It must be her wanting that 'intimacy' without wanting the sex that sometimes goes along with it. That's a bit puzzling for me, but maybe with time, I will come to understand it better.

[CarrieT]

She has a very indecisive attitude; "Do you think you might like to have sex?" If she wants to, it is no issue, we just take off our clothes and go for it. Sometimes she will initiate in this way, just asking me openly to have sex with her. If she doesn't exactly want to, she says something like "Oh, you mean right now? Honestly, I am not in the mood right this second". "Well, how about later tonight?" I will ask, and she might respond, "I have no idea how I will feel later tonight". It would be great for me if she could say "Yes, I think I will want to later" or "No, probably not". Maybe you can get a sense for how I feel a little bit pathetic and unappreciated when she acts sort of indifferent towards me, unexcited.

Read the part I bolded. You feel pathetic because she is being honest = i.e., a woman doesn't necessarily anticipate the need or desire for sex and so there is no way for her to say, "Yes, I think I will want to later."

 

The sooner you can grasp this contradiction in women the better off you will be. You are asking for when she might be in the mood and there is no way she can tell -- and by asking, "well, how about later tonight?" you are putting additional pressure on her to possibly have to put out, instead of letting it happen naturally. Of course she is going to be indifferent and unexcited; she knows that you have been planning, conniving, scheming, etc to have sex after you have brought it up and that alone makes the act that much more undesirable. At least it would for me because I would feel OBLIGATED to perform, knowing that it has been thought about and hoped for, etc.

[pink_sugar]

I definitely agree with CarrieT. Often times my husband will ask me "if I want to later" if I don't want sex right at that time. It's very hard to predict what mood I will be in later.

 

I personally think a few times a week is reasonable. Consider that one or you both might be working full time, going to school and/or managing a family. All those factors play a big role into how often you are able to have sex. My husband frankly never seems too exhausted for sex. My parent's marriage didn't last because my dad wanted it 5 times a day and my mom hardly at all. I think there is a happy medium. My dad seems to think couples have to have sex every single day in the first year of marriage otherwise something is wrong, but I am pretty sure that man is a sex addict considering he thinks all young males need to want sex all day long.

[eyelessshiver]

Read the part I bolded. You feel pathetic because she is being honest = i.e., a woman doesn't necessarily anticipate the need or desire for sex and so there is no way for her to say, "Yes, I think I will want to later."

 

The sooner you can grasp this contradiction in women the better off you will be. You are asking for when she might be in the mood and there is no way she can tell -- and by asking, "well, how about later tonight?" you are putting additional pressure on her to possibly have to put out, instead of letting it happen naturally. Of course she is going to be indifferent and unexcited; she knows that you have been planning, conniving, scheming, etc to have sex after you have brought it up and that alone makes the act that much more undesirable. At least it would for me because I would feel OBLIGATED to perform, knowing that it has been thought about and hoped for, etc.

 

Well, conniving and scheming sounds inaccurate to me, given that I am just asking for a straight answer so that I can know what to expect. Nevertheless, I can see your overall point. When one feels put upon for sex, it turns into a chore. When there is no pressure, the appeal increases greatly. That's definitely something to keep in mind.

[Ninja'sHusband]

With my ex, if she promised sex...it was usually a guarantee that it wouldn't happen. I think she would genuinely mean it...and it was never something I asked her to promise, she'd just make the promise. I quickly learned to ignore and actually dread such death knells for sex "later"....

 

But other times, yeah I'd get a lot of sex with no warning.

 

The first half of our marriage seduction was fairly easy for me too, but old techniques grow stale...more and more I had to pay attention to time of month, time of day etc. Weekend mornings were our best time. No tiredness, no immediate responsibilities, we both were up about the same time.

 

And the age point, yeah it's commonly known that women have a much later peak than men. Some say that's just because it takes that long for women to become comfortable with sex and actually start to enjoy it. I dunno, but the concept of a late thirties woman having an appetite increase is common. At the same time, men lose testosterone the older they get...

[xxoo]

Well, seducing her almost always works. I think sometimes I don't like to have to do that work, though. I am the more seductive one in the relationship, I have mostly pursued, she has mostly been a little evasive.

 

A basic thing to understand about men and women (generally speaking)--

 

Men are somewhat aroused all the damn time. This is one reason that men require less foreplay than women, and reach orgasm quicker than women (again, generally).

 

Women, otoh, can be genuinely 0% turned at any given point during the day. That is why seduction is important, even more so in long term relationships after the rush of "lust hormones" have worn off.

 

Think of it as a car with gears. Men might be in 2nd or 3rd gear all day long, thinking of sex every time they see a tight skirt or a pretty face. Just say the word, and you guys can get into overdrive FAST!

 

Women are in neutral most of the day, and need time to warm up. You have to know how to start her engine. Asking for sex without any seduction might be analogous to flooring the gas pedal when the engine is cold--or stalled.

 

What do you mean by "sometimes I don't like to have to do that work"? Do you resent that she isn't turned on in the exact same way as you? If you learn how to start her engine, and appreciate the beauty of her machinery as she is (instead of wishing she worked more like you), you may feel less resentful about the effort involved in getting her engine roaring hot.

[CarrieT]

Well, conniving and scheming sounds inaccurate to me, given that I am just asking for a straight answer so that I can know what to expect. Nevertheless, I can see your overall point. When one feels put upon for sex, it turns into a chore. When there is no pressure, the appeal increases greatly. That's definitely something to keep in mind.

 

You are right. "Conniving and scheming" does sound inaccurate to YOU.

 

But to a woman whose husband might be continually asking about sex (note that I am not making assumptions - I said "might be"), the concept that it feels like conniving and scheming is spot on. That is why I used those words. I want you to consider how it might feel from the other side.

 

To you, it is just asking for "straight answers" but you are delving into a murky land of feelings and anticipations and desire - an area for which there are no straight answers and when those answers do exist, they won't be straight! It will be different every single time.

 

Is this making sense yet? I believe you are being polarized and analytical in what you are hoping for from your partner and it is far more nuanced than that. As others have posted, we women feel differently during different times of the month. You have stated that she often wants it late at night, when you are tired. Maybe you should suck it up and wake up - drink extra coffee the following day.

 

Consider the Three C's:

Compromise. Communication. Caring.

[xxoo]

He doesn't like it because instead of him having to always play to her tune she could maybe just accommodate him once in a while even if she isn't all that turned on.

 

Which plenty of women do with no problem.

 

Once she's turned on, is she not playing his tune as well?

 

One sided is fine once in a while, but more than that and she'll start to view sex as a chore. Death knell.

[CarrieT]

I like how it's perfectly fine to expect him to suck it up and just do it when she feels like it but the other way around is a no no for some reason.

 

I'm not suggesting this is entirely his problem to deal with - but it is not like he is dealing with a woman who never wants sex (the way many of these threads are on LS).

 

But to go that extra step as part of the Three C's and COMPROMISE. If they both communicate better and occasionally he wakes up for sex when she wants it, than they are both meeting each other somewhere in the middle.

[CarrieT]

Im not seeing the compromise on her part.

 

Of course not - because she is not here discussing the issue. HE has to start communicating with her more and learning what he does and says appears as to a woman.

 

We are only going from his side which is why I'm hamming the communication part and explaining to him how his questions will be coming across to her.

 

The "occasionally not sleeping" to have sex with her is just one aspect of compromise. She has to too, of course, but we have no way of suggesting how to do so to her unless she enters in the dialogue.

[LittleTiger]

Im not advocating she satiate a 7 times a day sex drive when she's only turned on once a week. Im saying there's nothing wrong for him to accommodate her by going through the foreplay motions but there's also nothing wrong with her accommodating him by occasionally spreading her legs simply because her man is horny.

 

Are you suggesting a woman should 'spread her legs' even when she isn't aroused? Unless you are into S&M that's not a very pleasant thought! What's the plan of action for this? Slap on some lube and just take what you want? If foreplay is such a chore you might as well get yourself a blow up doll!

[Summer Breeze]

I wouldn't issue any ultimatums over this. I think once a week is pretty decent. Yeah I could go every other day...but from my undestanding most women aren't interested in that much sex. Maybe when she's just come off her period she will be, even more so actually. I think people don't account for a woman's cycle enough when talking about frequency. It's not like every week can be the same.

 

Generally my experience:

Menstration week: no sex..though in the last few years my ex would sometimes actually get pretty horny during this time.

Week1 after: Most sex, maybe multiple times a day the first couple days, tapering off.

Week2 after. About once. She's most "normal" during this time period.

Week before (premenstrual): Maybe once right before the period starts...but generally this week is a "stay away from me" week.

 

Also month to month varies. Some months might be cooled off, then a month later you return to it with a passion

 

 

I'm well into my 50s and have never had a sex drive this low.

 

OP do tell her what your needs are. The worst thing people can do is assume and overcompromise without talking to her. I'd want my partner to tell me what's going on so if we need to adjust a little we have the chance to.

[LittleTiger]

If sex with her partner is a chore maybe she should get a dildo so the OP can find someone that doesn't feel relationship should be a one way compromise street.

 

As I understand it, the OPs partner does not find sex a chore. The problem is that he wants sex more often than she does and apparently at different times. He has admitted to refusing sex when he isn't in the mood - just like she does!

 

When a couple has mismatched libidos, the onus is on the partner with the higher drive to 'encourage' the other person to get aroused when they are not really interested. A woman who is not sexually aroused cannot reasonably be expected to 'spread her legs' just for her partner's pleasure, any more than an unaroused man can be expected to get an instant erection.

 

A satisfying sexual relationship is a two way street. Both parties need to make an effort.