Is marriage mostly a failed institution?

[Robert Z]

How many people do you know extremely well who have been married at least ten years, who are truly happy in their marriage. It ocurred to me the other day that I don't know anyone who is. No one in my family is happy. None of my friends are happy. We didn't know it then, but by the ten year mark my wife and I were already on our way down. And my experience left me so bitter that only now am I beginning to see the light of day and starting to feel half human again.

 

Based on what I now know about both men and women, I am starting to think compatibility is as much driven by hormones as is the drive to reproduce. Once the hormones and the thrill is gone, what's left? For a lucky few there seems to be a lifetime compatibility, but for most people it doesn't seem to work that way. About half of all marriages end in divorce. And I would bet that at least half of all those who stay married are miserable. If this is respresentitive, then perhaps 25% of all marriages result in happy couples. And I would bet even that 25% struggles more than not. I would bet that less than 10% of couples are truly happy and still married, after a decade.

 

I had a friend who was very active in the community and spend a lot of time visiting with his retired friends. He once observed that as married couples got older they grew more and more distant from each other. Eventually many or most moved to separate bedrooms and had completely separate lives. The marriage was really just a convenience and a matter of financial security. Given the means, most probably would gladly go their separate ways. And I suspect this is true of many older married couples. The marriage is really about money and security, not love.

 

I am beginning to wonder if men and women are fundamentally incompatible. What see here and almost everywhere else, is heartbreak and misery. Marriage nearly destroyed me. Now that I've started to recover, I am seeing that friends and relatives are no better off than I was. It is all starting to seem like a cruel joke.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

It's not so much male/female incompatibility as it is the ridiculous notion that two people should stay together forever and ever and ever.

 

I was thinking this after making the post.

 

Heard a great and timely joke awhile back. If you want to stop gay sex, legalize gay marriage.

[KathyM]

I know many couples personally who have been married over ten years and are still happy. Myself included. The first ten years of our marriage were blissfully happy. There were some ups and downs later on, but we are still happy and in love and are enjoying our almost empty nester years together. Enjoying all the stages of adulthood with a lifelong friend and companion that you love is a wonderful thing. It gives you a history together that is valuable and meaningful. I can't imagine going from person to person, break up after break up, never having a permanent presence in your life that you love and can count on. That lifestyle would feel empty and lonely to me.

[Spark1111]

I love being married but I wish I had read up more on the stages of any long term relationship.

 

The first stage is hormonal and it is called limerance. It lasts from 2 to 4 years and is that heady, wonderful feeling we all associate with falling in love. It's chemically induced and easy and requires no effort. But it never lasts longer than the hormones induced by it.

 

The next stage is disillusionment. The rose-colored glasses come off and we see our partner warts and all. This is where many a couple get stuck in arguing and power struggles and trying to force the other to their opinions, etc. Many a marriage fail here.

 

The last stage is mature love. I accept you for who you are, you accept me for who I am and we enjoy each other's company immensely.

 

Did you know that 9 out of 10 issues in a relationship are not resolvable? And compatibility can be overrated, as in, two people too much alike equals boredom.

 

So, I am not sure about all the unhappy couples out there. I just think people do not know how to sustain a long-term loving relationship with each other.

 

That takes a tremendous amount of effort and ALWAYS putting each other first; listening, respecting, and cherishing each other.

 

Complacency kills more marriages than anything else, IMHO.

 

In marriage counseling we learned it was never about what we weren't getting from the marriage; our unhappiness was more directly tied to what we weren't GIVING.

 

The more we gave, the more we got.

 

I see people out there that do want to recreate limerance, over and over again...but it always fades and they are left with all the same issues they never addressed the first or second time around.

 

Maybe, they don't care to.

[carhill]

I don't know about 'failed', as a well-considered legal partnership, even if transitory, can be advantageous to both parties but, upon reflection, I can see the value in how my exW prosecuted her marriages, growing and improving her position in life and gaining insight and knowledge and then moving on to the next potential. Perhaps, at this point in our culture's/society's/planet's evolution, pragmatism regarding the bonds of love and marriage has healthy play.

 

As we evolve, so should the 'institution' of marriage. It appears, based upon statistics, that life-long marriages are on the decline. OK, let's accept that and re-frame the institution to accept it in a positive way which allows both beginnings and endings to proceed healthily and with equity. One suggestion would be to balance the ease/difficulty of entering marriage with leaving it. Currently, entering it is little more than signing a few documents which really specify next to nothing about said partnership. Let's raise the bar a bit. Make it more like the legal partnership it is. I'd vote for a standard pre-nuptial contract to accompany every marriage license.

 

Another alternative, one increasingly used by my generation, is not marrying at all, rather 'shacking up' and keeping one's relationships 'off the books'. Will this become more common over time? Perhaps. Evolution is hard to predict.

[Woggle]

The current state of affairs regarding marriage is certainly not encouraging and I can understand a person's cynicism. That being said it is the people and not the institution that are the problem. Marriage is an idea based on partnership and people working together but we live in a society that glorifies a self centered and everybody out for themselves type of mentality. That kind of environment does not encourage strong marriages.

[Radu]

How many people do you know extremely well who have been married at least ten years, who are truly happy in their marriage. It ocurred to me the other day that I don't know anyone who is. No one in my family is happy. None of my friends are happy. We didn't know it then, but by the ten year mark my wife and I were already on our way down. And my experience left me so bitter that only now am I beginning to see the light of day and starting to feel half human again.

 

Based on what I now know about both men and women, I am starting to think compatibility is as much driven by hormones as is the drive to reproduce. Once the hormones and the thrill is gone, what's left? For a lucky few there seems to be a lifetime compatibility, but for most people it doesn't seem to work that way. About half of all marriages end in divorce. And I would bet that at least half of all those who stay married are miserable. If this is respresentitive, then perhaps 25% of all marriages result in happy couples. And I would bet even that 25% struggles more than not. I would bet that less than 10% of couples are truly happy and still married, after a decade.

 

I had a friend who was very active in the community and spend a lot of time visiting with his retired friends. He once observed that as married couples got older they grew more and more distant from each other. Eventually many or most moved to separate bedrooms and had completely separate lives. The marriage was really just a convenience and a matter of financial security. Given the means, most probably would gladly go their separate ways. And I suspect this is true of many older married couples. The marriage is really about money and security, not love.

 

I am beginning to wonder if men and women are fundamentally incompatible. What see here and almost everywhere else, is heartbreak and misery. Marriage nearly destroyed me. Now that I've started to recover, I am seeing that friends and relatives are no better off than I was. It is all starting to seem like a cruel joke.

 

I know 5 couples who have been married for at least 30yrs.

And i don't know my extended family that well, there are more of them in it.

 

The problem is that many of the ppl today in the west don't go in marriage with both feet in like they used to do in the past.

I know that some may argue that in the past there used to be more bitter marriages, but in the past things were tougher.

When life is tough, and you need to do everything for your family, you hardly have the time to 'find yourself' and to 'search for meaning' by fuc*ing around other guys/gals.

You give it your best to succeed because things are bad.

 

The reason that it is so bad in the West and with the newer generations in the East as well is simply this ... entitlement.

I deserve this, I deserve that. I need to think about me too [i find it funny coming from parents of little children who have affairs and break up marriages].

Too much fuc*ing I.

 

Oh, and the divorce rate is higher than 50%. They calculate the divorce rate by comparing the nr of divorces to the nr of marriages in a yr.

Real divorce rate is higher, and divorce+unhappiness rate is probably close to 75-80%.

[KathyM]

I just read an article a couple of days ago that said that, of the people who ended up divorced, 40% of those regretted that decision and wished that they had stayed married to the person. They find the grass is not greener elsewhere, and the same issues that broke up the marriage crop up into subsequent relationships eventually. Making it easier to divorce is not the answer, because then people will be too tempted to cut the ties as soon as their marriage is in a downturn, rather than waiting it out for the upcycling or working on it.

[carhill]

I've been a historical believer in life-long marriage and am outlier to that statistic, in that I'm one of the 60% who did not regret the decision to divorce. In fact, it's one of the healthiest decisions I've made in the last 20 years, along with deciding to pursue MC. YMMV.

 

My canary is now, when I observe a partner not willing to work through the 'downs' in a relationship, I accept that. Before, I kept plugging along, trying to improve and giving the benefit of the doubt until I became damaged emotionally. Never again.

[KathyM]

I've been a historical believer in life-long marriage and am outlier to that statistic, in that I'm one of the 60% who did not regret the decision to divorce. In fact, it's one of the healthiest decisions I've made in the last 20 years, along with deciding to pursue MC. YMMV.

 

My canary is now, when I observe a partner not willing to work through the 'downs' in a relationship, I accept that. Before, I kept plugging along, trying to improve and giving the benefit of the doubt until I became damaged emotionally. Never again.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your wife cheated on you, didn't she? And that is why you are divorced? Pretty hard to get a marriage back on track when that kind of devastation has occurred.

[standtall]

My wife and I..17 yrs and going strong. We love each other more now than when we were dating.

[carhill]

Correct me if I'm wrong but your wife cheated on you, didn't she? And that is why you are divorced? Pretty hard to get a marriage back on track when that kind of devastation has occurred.

That part is unclear though evidence during and after our D lends credence. I originally came to LS during an EA of my own, which I disclosed and ended. MC really opened my eyes to a lot of potentials and to the concept of accepting different paths than what I 'believe', largely exemplified by what is expressed in my post prior in this thread. I don't think marriage is 'mostly a failed institution' but do believe it's an institution in need of some rehabilitation since it appears to be incompatible with many people who sign on.

[KathyM]

That part is unclear though evidence during and after our D lends credence. I originally came to LS during an EA of my own, which I disclosed and ended. MC really opened my eyes to a lot of potentials and to the concept of accepting different paths than what I 'believe', largely exemplified by what is expressed in my post prior in this thread. I don't think marriage is 'mostly a failed institution' but do believe it's an institution in need of some rehabilitation since it appears to be incompatible with many people who sign on.

Oh, so there was infidelity on both sides. I can see why you might then have a lesser view on the potential for a lasting marriage or marriage in general.

[Woggle]

After what they grew up with there is no way you can judge anybody 40 or under for having a cynical view towards marriage. The current situation isn't exactly encouraging.

[carhill]

Oh, so there was infidelity on both sides. I can see why you might then have a lesser view on the potential for a lasting marriage or marriage in general.

The thread isn't about my marriage and I take exception to your characterization. Please don't put words into my mouth. Thanks.

[KathyM]

The thread isn't about my marriage and I take exception to your characterization. Please don't put words into my mouth. Thanks.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you, but in all fairness, you first brought up the subject of your marriage yourself in this thread, and how your divorce was the best decision you made in the last 20 years, so I wanted to get clarification as to why you felt divorce was such a good thing for you, and why you might have that perspective.

[M30USA]

Marriage fails primarily due to power struggles. One party typically tries to dominate the other, while the other is expected to just allow it. If it's not accepted or allowed, then the dominating party typically gets mad and feels their rights have been violated (for not being allowed to dominate another person).

[Radagast]

I just read an article a couple of days ago that said that, of the people who ended up divorced, 40% of those regretted that decision and wished that they had stayed married to the person.

 

Only 40%. Significantly fewer than half.

 

Compared with divorce rates that in many countries are higher than 50%, suggesting that most people who marry regret that decision.

 

From the statistics, it looks to any sane person that divorce is a far more rational choice than marriage!

[Radagast]

It's not so much male/female incompatibility as it is the ridiculous notion that two people should stay together forever and ever and ever. I often hear people bring up the fact that previous generations managed to make it work.

 

They made it work because divorce made you a social outcast, the nanosecond this was no longer true divorce went through the roof. Serial monogamy is what comes natural to humans, not this forced lifetime commitment.

 

I agree with this. I was very glad to see the end of my first marriage, and I support the proposals that marriages should expire automatically after five years, requiring participants to seek a renewal if they wish to continue. At least that way those who choose to stay together can make a proper commitment to invest in the continuation of the marriage, and those who are not that interested can simply go their separate ways with no hard feelings.

[carhill]

Most of my male friends who have been married into multiple decades and whom I've known for multiple decades have, at one time or another, opined that 'it is cheaper to keep her', which means they've made a bargain and struck a balance of the costs and benefits, both emotionally and financially, in favor of retaining the status quo, meaning the institution of marriage. The women's perspectives have varied in emotional content but essentially provided a similar assessment. For them, dissolving the long-term contract is too expensive on all fronts to prosecute on a whim. I respect that perspective.

 

TBH, I've seen far more rancor personally in such marriages than I ever would have participated in regarding my own. Everyone is different. Perhaps the love/joy portion, occasionally glimpsed, is larger away from the cameras of close friends. Regardless, for them, the institution works, evidenced by the count I often hear of the decades of devotion. For others, it fails. Life goes on. Fortunately, I saw it work for my parents, so had that healthy example to work from and to chastise me during my periods of error and dishonor. It was a great tool of teaching, if perhaps outdated by modern mores and standards. Were they 'truly happy'? Unknown. I was never inside their minds. Are my long-married friends 'truly happy'? Unknown for same. I do know that they wouldn't trade places with me (they've told me so, honestly), so they apparently are happy with the institution and how it works for them, as opposed to being single.

[KathyM]

Only 40%. Significantly fewer than half.

 

Compared with divorce rates that in many countries are higher than 50%, suggesting that most people who marry regret that decision.

 

From the statistics, it looks to any sane person that divorce is a far more rational choice than marriage!

If you take the statistic that 50% of all first marriages stay together, and of the other 50% that get a divorce, 40% of those wish that they had stayed together, that means that slightly less than 75% of all first marriages either stay together or wish they had. That's quite a large percentage of people who want to stay married.

[KathyM]

I listened to a radio show the other day where they said that 70% of all people felt dissatisfied with their marriage and something like 2 people had SERIOUS doubts on their wedding day that never went away.

 

Sounds accurate to me.

It's pretty typical for people to have something about their marriage that they would want to change or are dissatisfied with. Doesn't mean they want to divorce or wish they had never married.

[Radu]

I just read an article a couple of days ago that said that, of the people who ended up divorced, 40% of those regretted that decision and wished that they had stayed married to the person. They find the grass is not greener elsewhere, and the same issues that broke up the marriage crop up into subsequent relationships eventually. Making it easier to divorce is not the answer, because then people will be too tempted to cut the ties as soon as their marriage is in a downturn, rather than waiting it out for the upcycling or working on it.

 

I suspect the percentage is higher than 40%.

[Robert Z]

I know 5 couples who have been married for at least 30yrs.

And i don't know my extended family that well, there are more of them in it.

 

The problem is that many of the ppl today in the west don't go in marriage with both feet in like they used to do in the past.

I know that some may argue that in the past there used to be more bitter marriages, but in the past things were tougher.

When life is tough, and you need to do everything for your family, you hardly have the time to 'find yourself' and to 'search for meaning' by fuc*ing around other guys/gals.

You give it your best to succeed because things are bad.

 

That sort of thinking is precisely why I nearly allowed my marraige to destroy me. I refused to give up no matter how depressed and unhappy I was, and no matter hopeless it became. After a time I lost all perspective and entered a death spiral from which I nearly didn't escape. I mostly blame my religious upbringing and dysfunctional family for that. If I hadn't been so brainwashed with ideas of commitment and honor, I never would have wasted half of my life.

[quankanne]

I just think people do not know how to sustain a long-term loving relationship with each other.

 

you've hit the nail right on the head, Spark ~ people go into marriage with the mindset that it's going to be this this and this, and if it's not, there's always divorce. Divorce shouldn't be an option going into marriage; when it is, those folks shouldn't even be considering marriage, IMO.

 

I'm a third wife, we just celebrated 20 years of marriage this summer, and knew each other for 4 years before that, a lot of it was LDR. It wasn't easy, but we were committed. And we did things to make sure our marriage had what it needed. Is it perfect? Not by any means. But until he said he wanted to marry, I'd never considered a husband or marriage as something I wanted in my life. To be honest, I can't imagine life without him as my spouse, it just makes that much sense.

 

failure comes when one or both parties refuse to invest themselves in the relationship and it dies from a lack of attention, IMO.

 

divorce is necessary and good in some instances where an unhealthy relationship threatens the well-being of someone, be it physically, mentally or emotionally, but those cases are few in comparision to people divorcing just because they want something else. Again, IMO ..