Author oracle Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 "Sticking to a script..." You put that very well. The beginning times were very much like that. I went 9 months before beginning to tell people we were splitting up. Discordant religious views or values are a kiss of death. I find those scenarios only get worse with time. Thanks for your kind comments and your post Oracle, your posts are eloquent and incredibly useful, I'm sorry to hear that life is so hard for you, must be agonising trying to stick to a script when all that is going on around you. I too am guilty of the 'castles of the mind' thing, I tend to apply traits to people that I maybe shouldn't and gloss over potential flaws. I do this much less than I used to but it's still a bit of a pitfall of mine. In my last relationship (of 5 years) I had to pull my socks up pretty quickly in that regard and get militant because when you're living with a person, a lot of the delusional, romantic thinking tends to go out of the window, and you are left with REALITY, maybe a person you really 'love' but one with traits that may jar against your own (religion was the kicker in the last one, I'm not, she was). BUT, another woman comes along and it's back to ruddy square one...! The main thing that seems to be sinking in is the stuff about coddling and not actually being *entitled* to anything. It's harsh but true. Like you say, we could all be living in a third world warzone, getting our legs squished to pulp by landmines - by comparison, who really gives a crap about a guy being in a teary funk over the loss of a love interest? Sucks but someone had to say it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
dejame Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 about it being true that others don't care about your problem when bigger problems exist reminds me of when people's mom's were telling their children to eat their vegetables because the starving children in India would be grateful to have them. In the end, if we aren't starving we still worry about our problems and finding a way not to eat the vegetables. Starving children in India is not our concern in those moments. Just don't want to invalidate the emotions we are feeling due to the breakup of a relationship. Although, it does help to see that other bigger problems exist for others in the world. Maybe the dwindling continued support from our relies and friends are a good sign that we need to start living more in the present and less in that past pain-filled ending. We still need to validate our pain and also find a way to move past the hurt, sadness, loss and anger. Venting on a bulletin board for that purpose helps with others are in various levels of the same issue. It helps me to remember that I will eventually get past it as others post who are nearer to the end of their breakup recovery. Hopefully, people will post about later emotional success when they have recovered. I try to look back on past break-ups and know that I survived and thrived when I once thought I would die of the sheer heartache for the person. Of course, the person I ached for was the "good" mate and not the mate who cheated on me or ended the relationship with a highly negative tirade of just exactly he felt was wrong with me. This is the worst part of the after effects of a break-up. Trying to hate the person at the same time you yearn for them to be sitting next to you chatting about your next vacation. It is so schizophrenic feeling. Caught in an emotional ping pong game. Perhaps at some point we need to simply "fake it 'til we make it" and ignore some of the internal clinginess and chatter regarding the lost partner. However, moving back into the dating world older with unsharpened dating skills is like going to a party when you don't have a current map of where it is being held. Link to post Share on other sites
dejame Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Just wanted to say that I read your posts over again Oracle. As a female heterosexual it is worth noting that humans are humans regardless of their various orientations. I have received so much good advice from what you posted. Amazingly helpful to me. Thank you for your input and the soul searching you did to come to those realizations. Impressive. Take care of yourself. The journey continues. deja me Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 Thank you for that. I know there is a big chunk of people -especially older generations - who instantly click NEXT the minute they find out im gay when reading my post. I have actually seen replies to posts (which were rightly removed very quickly by moderators) stating along the lines that it isn't worth them addressing because they don't consider those real relationships. I am almost in awe sometimes of crap like that.. its a real shocker to me. I guess I take it for granted having grown up and lived in pershaps one of the most laid-back, liberal, open, socially and ethnically diverse citys in North America that I forget what its still like out there in the rest of the world. Thank you Just wanted to say that I read your posts over again Oracle. As a female heterosexual it is worth noting that humans are humans regardless of their various orientations. I have received so much good advice from what you posted. Amazingly helpful to me. Thank you for your input and the soul searching you did to come to those realizations. Impressive. Take care of yourself. The journey continues. deja me Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 2, 2013 Author Share Posted March 2, 2013 Yea... you know you really cannot trully empathize with anyone, even if you try... cause you don't really KNOW IT.. till the emotions are YOURS. This was one of the biggest lessons for me. And I usually disclaimer when talking to people that they just cannot possibly undersand it fully, cause its not their experience. There are so many small nuances that are woven into our emotional being and experience of it. Plus we get caught up over analysing so we place so much more value on things than they really deserve at times. A small example. My ex's mother caught her husband of about 30 years cheating and got divorced. She was a mess after, and we tried our best at times to take her out and have a good time.. and non of it helped. I thought, jeez get over it.. live. I just DIDN'T UNDERSTAND. It wasn't my experience. She eventaully spiralled after loosing the rest of her money and had a psychotic break and my ex had to have her committed. She actually said she thought I was the devil and that I had made he son gay and that he was a good person before me. Sadly they only keep them for 30 days, then she had to come live with us. This is just one of MANY factors that I refer to as the "beginning of the end" time But the big point was.. When It happened to me.. the break.. I actually finally understood what her experience was... and I could understand how someone who was emotional and mentally weak could easily break if the strain got too big. ...Walk a mile in another man's shoes. Wanting to hate your ex... I hear ya on this one. Acually this is one of the ones that gets me really pissed off at myself, cause I always feel guilty after.. and when I see things aren't going well for him I feel bad. I wish I could just stay in the indifferent I hate you land. Did you have any kids with your ex? about it being true that others don't care about your problem when bigger problems exist reminds me of when people's mom's were telling their children to eat their vegetables because the starving children in India would be grateful to have them. In the end, if we aren't starving we still worry about our problems and finding a way not to eat the vegetables. Starving children in India is not our concern in those moments. Just don't want to invalidate the emotions we are feeling due to the breakup of a relationship. Although, it does help to see that other bigger problems exist for others in the world. Maybe the dwindling continued support from our relies and friends are a good sign that we need to start living more in the present and less in that past pain-filled ending. We still need to validate our pain and also find a way to move past the hurt, sadness, loss and anger. Venting on a bulletin board for that purpose helps with others are in various levels of the same issue. It helps me to remember that I will eventually get past it as others post who are nearer to the end of their breakup recovery. Hopefully, people will post about later emotional success when they have recovered. I try to look back on past break-ups and know that I survived and thrived when I once thought I would die of the sheer heartache for the person. Of course, the person I ached for was the "good" mate and not the mate who cheated on me or ended the relationship with a highly negative tirade of just exactly he felt was wrong with me. This is the worst part of the after effects of a break-up. Trying to hate the person at the same time you yearn for them to be sitting next to you chatting about your next vacation. It is so schizophrenic feeling. Caught in an emotional ping pong game. Perhaps at some point we need to simply "fake it 'til we make it" and ignore some of the internal clinginess and chatter regarding the lost partner. However, moving back into the dating world older with unsharpened dating skills is like going to a party when you don't have a current map of where it is being held. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Am4Real Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Very wise post from the beginning of this thread through this one. Enjoyed the read and you sharing your experiences and wisdom's. Thank you. All the best, Am4Real Yea... you know you really cannot trully empathize with anyone, even if you try... cause you don't really KNOW IT.. till the emotions are YOURS. This was one of the biggest lessons for me. And I usually disclaimer when talking to people that they just cannot possibly undersand it fully, cause its not their experience. There are so many small nuances that are woven into our emotional being and experience of it. Plus we get caught up over analysing so we place so much more value on things than they really deserve at times. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sattech200 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Damnit!!!! Ive been walking around for the last six weeks swearing to myself I am turning gay! (Ok, I am 100% joking around with that above statement! I have a lot and of good friends that prefear same sex relationships and we all joke around like this. I am sincearly sorry if i offend anyone, that is certainly not my intention!) Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Thank you very much Hope it helps in some ways. Im here if you want to discuss anything Very wise post from the beginning of this thread through this one. Enjoyed the read and you sharing your experiences and wisdom's. Thank you. All the best, Am4Real Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 LOL.. Actually I don't get along with gays too much. I don't relate well with them even tho I am one (Though I shouldn't generalize!) Most of my friends are str8 guys. I have never really be a part of the gay community, maybe that will change when Im on my own! Damnit!!!! Ive been walking around for the last six weeks swearing to myself I am turning gay! (Ok, I am 100% joking around with that above statement! I have a lot and of good friends that prefear same sex relationships and we all joke around like this. I am sincearly sorry if i offend anyone, that is certainly not my intention!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 I know exactly how you feel. EXACTLY. Someone wise asked me, what my "WIN" scenario would be from my current place of purgatory... I pondered if for a second and replied... "My win is when he has no power over me.. that I am completely indifferent to him.. regardless of whatever he has going on or is doing" My biggest fear is that it will forever haunt me... like a drug addiction. and I fear that he will be able to come and go in my life as it suits him and I will be forever weak to that. But then at the same time I am afraid to feel nothing, I fear it would almost devalue the past 15yrs of my experience. I waver significantly on this issue and where I stand. My friend replied.... "The future, is nothing more than fantasty and anxiety. The past, is merely nostalgia and regret. They do not exist, and they are not real right now." If I buried the pain like that then it will come back and probably block me from having sincere relationship with others in the future and even cause me to hurt others. This is my dull-aching pain. I feel like she simply passed onto me HER dull-aching pain. I am not going to go pass it on to another. So I will go through it. In the end of this ride I hope I hate her. I want to hate her. I dont want to forgive and I would never want be friends - That would only be giving her it all and eats it. *What I mean by hate is indifference. If something bad happened to her I wouldnt care. Its not that I want anything bad to her. If she ended up finding love of her life and marrying him I wouldnt care. I wouldnt care if she is happy or if she is sad just like I dont care about some woman I walked passed in the street I have never met. I dont want to love her anymore. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
1up Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Hey Oracle. I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your post and point of view. I really relate to what you are saying and don't think you are being cynical like some people have mentioned, you are just being realistic, and I find most people are afraid of the truth. You are a realist like me. Just a little about me. Im a lesbian woman who is in the beginning of the end of a 8 year relationship. Im pretty sure its over, but its making that leap into actually breaking it off that is the hard part. Im realistic about what will come next, which is why I really appreciated your post and wanted to say thank you for being honest and open 1 Link to post Share on other sites
1up Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 LOL.. Actually I don't get along with gays too much. I don't relate well with them even tho I am one (Though I shouldn't generalize!) Most of my friends are str8 guys. I have never really be a part of the gay community, maybe that will change when Im on my own! I can totally relate to this as well. I joke and say I hate lesbians, I rather have straight friends. It's all a joke and im generalising but there is also an element of truth because the scene and people who make it their lifes are so troublesome 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Hey Oracle. I just wanted to say I really enjoyed your post and point of view. I really relate to what you are saying and don't think you are being cynical like some people have mentioned, you are just being realistic, and I find most people are afraid of the truth. You are a realist like me. Just a little about me. Im a lesbian woman who is in the beginning of the end of a 8 year relationship. Im pretty sure its over, but its making that leap into actually breaking it off that is the hard part. Im realistic about what will come next, which is why I really appreciated your post and wanted to say thank you for being honest and open Thanks for posting! I am realistic but I'm also jaded and cynical to an extent. The difference between me and most people here is I been living this scenario for years. So when I write its not some emotional knee jerk reaction to an event that just happened. Sorry to hear about your relationship. It sounds like you will be the one pulling the trigger? Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 I can totally relate to this as well. I joke and say I hate lesbians, I rather have straight friends. It's all a joke and im generalising but there is also an element of truth because the scene and people who make it their lifes are so troublesome Gays (myself included) typically tend to be somewhat insecure, and this stems from growing up with the fear of not fitting the normal social mould, and not being accepted by family and peers. I think it leads to a lot of the stereotypical petty BS you see in the scene, especially among the yng ones. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
1up Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thanks for posting! I am realistic but I'm also jaded and cynical to an extent. The difference between me and most people here is I been living this scenario for years. So when I write its not some emotional knee jerk reaction to an event that just happened. Sorry to hear about your relationship. It sounds like you will be the one pulling the trigger? It appears that way. My GF thinks our relationship is going downhill and there are afew issues that I don't know if we can work out. I love her but I don't know if I can promise her the future she wants. It will sort of be mutual if we break-up but only because we wont be on the same page. We will both be terribly sad to break-up but nothing lasts forever. Link to post Share on other sites
bohica Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 © People don't change. They don't. People can alter their behaviour or beliefs, but they don't change their core personality traits. Understand these do evolve with age, but they don't drift very far from where they started. I believe people can change. It takes a lot of determination and hard work to break those traits and evolve as a person but it is possible. It happens all the time. What should have been said is that you can not change someone else. Not to better themselves or there relationships. You can help guide them, support them and encourage them but it is them that needs to make the changes. And yes, it can last a lifetime. Link to post Share on other sites
meggert338 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I have one more rule to add to your rules, as I have fully embraced it, and it has got me through some real tough times. "No matter what, everything will change." This applies to good and bad in life, and relationships. So the pain, indifference, or anger, or hurt or even joy you feel now, will change. In time, all emotions fade, and are replaced with new ones, for new situations. The only way to stay grounded though all of it is to realize that everything will change. Sometimes they do not change fast enough for our liking, but they will nevertheless change. Focus on that, and stay open to the new day in front of you, and you will move forward faster than you think. I know it sounds corny, but after losing my first wife to suicide, and being homeless with a 3 year old child, I adopted this and my life almost instantly became better. Looking back, as soon as I focused on the change going on around me, and embracing it, the whole ride got smoother. i have had even more heartbreak since, but the one constant is change. Embrace it!! Link to post Share on other sites
Telaroca Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 It appears that way. My GF thinks our relationship is going downhill and there are afew issues that I don't know if we can work out. I love her but I don't know if I can promise her the future she wants. It will sort of be mutual if we break-up but only because we wont be on the same page. We will both be terribly sad to break-up but nothing lasts forever. I guess it's easier to end a relationship when feelings are not there anymore. I'm going through the same thing. It's just harder to accept when you still love each other but could never be together.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 © People don't change. They don't. People can alter their behaviour or beliefs, but they don't change their core personality traits. Understand these do evolve with age, but they don't drift very far from where they started. I believe people can change. It takes a lot of determination and hard work to break those traits and evolve as a person but it is possible. It happens all the time. What should have been said is that you can not change someone else. Not to better themselves or there relationships. You can help guide them, support them and encourage them but it is them that needs to make the changes. And yes, it can last a lifetime. I disagree. Like I said. People can alter their behaviour. But they can't change who they are. You can recognize negative patterns and actively not go down those roads, eg alcoholics. It's an ongoing battle that you can win. But it doesn't make those core driving desires go away. Someone who is quick to anger and can be abusive can LEARN to alter attitude and response... There are lots of factors that play. Age, experience, changing hormone levels.... I can go on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author oracle Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I have one more rule to add to your rules, as I have fully embraced it, and it has got me through some real tough times. "No matter what, everything will change." This applies to good and bad in life, and relationships. So the pain, indifference, or anger, or hurt or even joy you feel now, will change. In time, all emotions fade, and are replaced with new ones, for new situations. The only way to stay grounded though all of it is to realize that everything will change. Sometimes they do not change fast enough for our liking, but they will nevertheless change. Focus on that, and stay open to the new day in front of you, and you will move forward faster than you think. I know it sounds corny, but after losing my first wife to suicide, and being homeless with a 3 year old child, I adopted this and my life almost instantly became better. Looking back, as soon as I focused on the change going on around me, and embracing it, the whole ride got smoother. i have had even more heartbreak since, but the one constant is change. Embrace it!! Agreed. The only certain things in life are death and taxes Hope things are on the upswing for you. Hang in there Link to post Share on other sites
Am4Real Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 There are core traits in people largely resulting from learned behaviors and there are those which come in cycle usually triggered by circumstance. Knowing the difference between the two is our challenge when finding or shedding a SO. All the best, Am4Real Link to post Share on other sites
blue_jay_bird Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) Rule 2 - Possession and desire are mutually exclusive. - 'Huh?' you say - Ya, ok let me put it this way. The hottest Guy / Girl is usually the one that is waving good-bye. Rule 2 is my favourite, cause its so true. We want what we can't have, and when we have it we tend to not want it is much anymore or take it for granted. That extra hard longing you feel is cause they just kicked ur ass to the curb. You have the blinders on and you are kneeling before that idealized version of them you have placed high up on that pedestal in your mind. I need some understanding about this rule. "The hottest Guy/Girl is usually the one that is waving good-bye." Define Hottest? I take it as the one walking away thinks they are the hottest. Are you saying they are a more desirable in general. Are you saying we have the perception that they are more desirable then the dumpee? Is this state of mind always true. I'v seen guy's dump a real find, only to come crawling back when they realize their stock is not that high. I do believe they think they are the hotter one, aka walking away. I'm still dealing with the issue, that i think the ex walking away is right. That they are the hotter one. Which can't be true. But the fact that they are walking away proves the point in "we place them on a pedestal" Maybe, this rule is thinking along the lines of the person with the higher self-esteem is the one walking away. Edited March 22, 2013 by blue_jay_bird Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca1134 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I don't understand how you can possible say to your ex or to yourself that you still love them especially if you are the one that dumped them. If you had Real Love for that person you would not of dumped them. Even if you were the dumpee eventually you fall out of love bc they the love is not reciprocated. So no, DO NOT say that you love them when its obvious that you dont. It makes matters more confusing and unsettling especially for the dumpee. Im gonna have to agree with you on this one. My ex dumped me, got a new girlfriend, but continues to tell me he loves me. Its a total mind ****. It keeps me hanging on with an ounce of hope. I feel like its just like dangling a carrot in front of a horse. If you love me so much why arent you with me??? Oh, we are toxic together...Its cruel and makes the dumpee feel like complete ****!! Link to post Share on other sites
siankat Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I loved reading what Oracle had to say cos it resonated with me a lot, you put words to my feelings and clarified them (i.e. what i want to believe to feel all warm and fuzzy, and that some of the history supports, and the reality of what happened and where i am now in my 'relationship' mess). I loved your points and agree with all of them although grudgingly and love your turn of phrase. You seem like an optimist who knows what reality is (you are one of the 'awake' ppl) but that there is a spectrum with a better end and worse end. I tend to over think and over analyse and am so thankful for my job as a nurse which keeps me from thinking about everything except for the task at hand for 12 hours a day....better than any therapy and i love it! I have a question (if you don't mind indulging as your no bs insight would be much appreciated) and i'll shoot straight from the hip so as to be as honest as possible....ok so.. i dated this guy for a few months. it was a mistake for us to agree to be exclusive as it was a LDR but we did. he cheated based on that understanding. which i totally get, but i obviously would have wished to be party to his true feelings on that subject. anyway, he has his bad points, and we are not compatible in all ways...but i cant help feeling like i really really know this guy in a way more than most people i have ever met, and he speaks to me on a deeper level (whether its actually just the old memories of being played getting scratched, or his resemblance to the character of my dad who is also my best friend....i dunno). But i felt/feel (i dunno cos i ended it abruptly when i found out he was looking for dates online...i didnt snoop btw but it would just make the story longer to explain how i know) like...we should have called time on it before, and i was going to suggest doing that and getting in touch in a few years, if we want, see where we are at and if we want the same things and each other. That would have been fine back then, but now i know he lied, and seemed to want to continue dating on the side and lie about it.,..do you think that is something that can be waived, could change (he's 24 if that makes a difference), and that my idea of getting in touch in time to come is useless now or still a possibility. I feel like it isn't but i really like the way you think and so would appreciate your thoughts on this. Also i just ended it as nicely as i could (totally unusual for me but i really want to respect and be in a respectful relationship even if its the end), he never addressed about his wanting to find other women to date (when i put that as one of the reasons why i was ending it), so dunno if he would even entertain a convo like the one im suggesting. Should i just leave it? and get in touch in years to come if i still have the desire to i mean he was the one who did wrong and didnt try to make any amends...Your clarity (and i would expect some harsh reality) would be much much appreciated as i have to and fro'd on this for 2 months now! Thank you 1 Link to post Share on other sites
siankat Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Im gonna have to agree with you on this one. My ex dumped me, got a new girlfriend, but continues to tell me he loves me. Its a total mind ****. It keeps me hanging on with an ounce of hope. I feel like its just like dangling a carrot in front of a horse. If you love me so much why arent you with me??? Oh, we are toxic together...Its cruel and makes the dumpee feel like complete ****!
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