M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I've seen something arise a few times with regard to how feminism plays out in the divorce/custody realm. I've seen a few women who are self-identified feminists, or who are not feminists but were happy to see the pro-woman bent in family court, come to a point decades later which they didn't forsee: namely, when they have a male son who goes through a divorce/custody trial and experiences the opposite side of the bias. Suddenly the favoritism which they enjoyed decades earlier really hits home in the opposite direction. They then start complaining how unfair it is that their son's ex-wife is getting custody of the kid based on little or no merit of her own, while her own son has been a stand-up dad and is still losing. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 You mean to say there are people out there who favour their own interests or the interests of people in their group over the interests of outsiders? And they find ways to justify their bias to themselves? Imagine that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 You mean to say there are people out there who favour their own interests or the interests of people in their group over the interests of outsiders? And they find ways to justify their bias to themselves? Imagine that. I don't understand what you're implying. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 You mean to say there are people out there who favour their own interests or the interests of people in their group over the interests of outsiders? And they find ways to justify their bias to themselves? Imagine that. If, by finding ways to "justify" their own bias over outsiders, you are referring to lying and distorting, then no, I can't imagine that. I would never do that. I would press my case, but would never lie or distort. That's the difference. And if you would, shame on you. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I don't understand what you're implying. What I'm implying is that people's notion of "fair" or "right" will generally be whatever benefits them or those closest to them. Hypocrisy in these matters is not confined to any particular gender. When people are young and single they're happy about anything slanted in their own gender's favour. Once they have opposite sex kids, the chickens come home to roost. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 What I'm implying is that people's notion of "fair" or "right" will generally be whatever benefits them or those closest to them. Hypocrisy in these matters is not confined to any particular gender. When people are young and single they're happy about anything slanted in their own gender's favour. Once they have opposite sex kids, the chickens come home to roost. Fair enough. This is where, in my opinion, human nature is exposed for what it is: utterly selfish. How can one claim to care for the interest of their own family while trying to swindle people outside the clan? It's impossible. It will inevitably come back to bite you in the ass. Maybe not until the next generation, but it will come back sooner or later. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 In matters legal, expect people to aggressively and assertively exert their self-interest, regardless of political bent. It's the nature of the beast. Humans are rarely consistent nor altruistic in matters personal. IMO, 'feminism' gets minor play, if any, in this dynamic. Can a person be judged as 'hypocritcal' regarding that play? Sure, why not? Judgement abounds, everywhere. The place it matters, topically, is under the seal of the court, which is hopefully unbiased as to the adjudication of the matters before it. Argue the law, or change the law. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Taramere, I agree with your comment about people defining "fair" as what benefits them personally. My STBXW's family tried to tell me that it was "fair" for everyone if I drove her car to their city after the court ruled that she would possess it. I felt like saying, "FAIR? Fair for WHO? What are you smoking?" Link to post Share on other sites
Greznog Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 To be honest unless you got married decades ago I find it difficult to empathize with men who get forcibly sodomized by the court system in a divorce. If you want children as a man get a surrogate or adopt one, that way nobody can take them away from you because they feel like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 To be honest unless you got married decades ago I find it difficult to empathize with men who get forcibly sodomized by the court system in a divorce. If you want children as a man get a surrogate or adopt one, that way nobody can take them away from you because they feel like it. Just wait until you have a son who loses his kids to one of these women. Link to post Share on other sites
Greznog Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Just wait until you have a son who loses his kids to one of these women. No son of mine will ever get married, trust me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 No son of mine will ever get married, trust me. Well there it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Kelemvor Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Divorce court has always been heavily gender biased in favor of women, and will continue to be for much of the foreseeable future until reform can catch up. I think these laws were good, and very protective of women say...back in the 1950s, but we really do live in a new era now, and I truly believe these laws need to be reformed. Protection of children is one thing, and there are always situations or circumstances that can be thrown out to support current law, but that's what we have judges for, to take these things into consideration. It doesn't take an idiot to wake up and see that the institution of marriage is jeopardized. Divorce rates are high, young people are waiting longer to get married, the avg age of women who marry is getting longer and it's actually pushing her upper boundary of optimal reproductive/fertility window. It was 20 for females in 1950 and is approaching 27 now. Females are age 30 on average for first time marriages in Europe based on a few statistics. This places much more emphasis on having children quickly, rather than waiting. You start to take fertility/genetics hits after your 20s that can't be ignored, and a big one between 35-37. I'll ignore risks for trisomy, etc.. as it's beyond the scope of this thread. Personally? I blame feminism. I think feminism and women's lib has done great things for women's rights, but sometimes I wonder at what cost and what exactly is the end goal of the movement? Men are more afraid of marriage these days than ever before. Men can have their cake and eat it too by enjoying virtually all the benefits of marriage, without actually "being" married. Women are more self dependent, and able to take care of themselves so I think their desire for economical support is lessened, so it really just boils down to societal expectations that are hard wired and ingrained, along with the need to "make babies". I think it's a dying institution and most men should give a very long pause for thought before plunging into something that can literally wreck them in the court system. Your wife may be earning a good salary, but if she gets pregnant and become a stay at home mom and your marriage ends up going over shoals, then you are screwed buddy... You'll be paying for 18 years and let's hope you weren't married more than 5 or 6 years and weren't a high wage earner or you'll be paying painful alimony. The women who want to paint men as forcing a baby on them... please. How long has birth control been out now? How many ways do we actually have these days to drastically decrease the risk of childbirth compared to the 50s? Yea, mistakes happen, but if you aren't ready for a child, then you have all the tools at your disposal to make sure you don't have one. If women want to cry foul and say the court systems are just fine the way they are...fine, but don't be surprised if the median age of marriage continues to increase to the point that marriage becomes even more jeopardized. There is simply no real benefit to a man from the legal institution of marriage, period. In the past, if you wanted to enjoy living together, risk having babies from regular sex, and talk a woman into such a life situation, then you had....marriage. We are in a much different situation these days. Link to post Share on other sites
worldgonewrong Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 The root problem with addressing this argument in terms of 'feminism' is because it's become a rather nebulous thing. I don't see how one can wrap their arms around the concept AND satisfy all definitions of the term -- and I say that as a man who has feminist leanings. If feminism equals 'winner take all' because you're 'competing' against a man, then it's a sketchy term. Then it's nothing more than affirmative action, in a sense, but with more teeth to it. So I don't really have an answer here except to say that feminism gets murky depending on whose definition we're looking at, and also dependent upon how wide or small of a net this term casts in x-number areas of life/society/rules/institutions/etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 This thread is more about the favoritism of woman in family court--not feminism, itself. You can be a traditional woman and still receive favoritism in family court. It doesn't matter. The point I brought up is that many women have received custody of their own children, only to be bitten in the ass when their own son loses custody to a woman. Link to post Share on other sites
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