M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Background: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/326981-separated-3-months-pending-divorce-my-story My wife is petitioning to have the judge re-evaluate his temporary orders. 6 months ago we were given alternating week custody of our 2 kids (aged 4 and 2) and we live 3 hours away. My wife believes she should be allowed to declare primary residence for the following 2 reasons: 1) since the temporary orders she has had her domestic violence/arrest charged "dismissed", and 2) the children are starting pre-k (not public kindergarten). I believe nothing significant has changed and, since the kids are merely in pre-K (not required schooling), the judge should rule no change. Since the judge obviously didn't believe her domestic violence was significant enough to give me primary custody, it therefore should not matter even if it was "dismissed"--since it wasn't a huge factor apparently to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites
Greznog Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I think you should invest in some KY jelly to make your encounter with family court as comfortable as possible. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 I think you should invest in some KY jelly to make your encounter with family court as comfortable as possible. LOL, okay that is funny. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 What's the most important thing to you here? The thing you'll look back on as an old man and remember clearly? Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 What's the most important thing to you here? The thing you'll look back on as an old man and remember clearly? Getting my kids 50% of the time at least. Plus her parents are pushing for her to bring the boys back to their hometown. I don't like the influence they have on my children and pray that the kids stay in my town. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Do you have an advocate who's crazy and smart enough to fight for that, or more? Are you up to really putting your grit and money where your mouth is? If so, get moving. Everything else is secondary. I know enough old fathers to know of what I speak. You can do it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Do you have an advocate who's crazy and smart enough to fight for that, or more? Are you up to really putting your grit and money where your mouth is? If so, get moving. Everything else is secondary. I know enough old fathers to know of what I speak. You can do it. I'm willing to do it. But my lawyer thinks a lot of the tactics like pysc evals, etc, are just a waste of time because they don't show anything conclusive. I'm certain my wife has Borderline Personality Disorder and she has trouble managing the role of motherhood (without huge help). I on the other hand am managing fine on my own. I spoke with another lawyer to get a second opinion, but he said it would run me about 30k to get all his tactics done. Bottom line: her family has more money than mine. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Bottom line: her family has more money than mine. I'm sure they're aware of that. Are you familiar with military strategy when facing a numerically or technologically superior opponent? Read up. Interview or get referrals to lawyers who have won custody for men if your current one is weak in that area. Tactics are great. Results are better. Father's rights groups can help. No fear. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 I'm sure they're aware of that. Are you familiar with military strategy when facing a numerically or technologically superior opponent? Read up. Interview or get referrals to lawyers who have won custody for men if your current one is weak in that area. Tactics are great. Results are better. Father's rights groups can help. No fear. Without wearing yourself out, can you give me a general idea of what I'm looking for? How can being in a weak position be better? Link to post Share on other sites
Ami1uwant Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Without wearing yourself out, can you give me a general idea of what I'm looking for? How can being in a weak position be better? Based on what I have briefly read and your backstory...I would be going for total custody.....you have a storing case because of her being in prison and her parents "kidnapping" your kids. There are advocates for your side....if you put some effort contacting these groups they may get you some much needed help. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Based on what I have briefly read and your backstory...I would be going for total custody.....you have a storing case because of her being in prison and her parents "kidnapping" your kids. There are advocates for your side....if you put some effort contacting these groups they may get you some much needed help. My lawyer said the judge figured the violence wasn't directly against the kids, and that because she was SAHM for 4 years, he couldn't just hand me the kids with primary. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Also...she has family in her town. I don't. Mine live across the country. Apparently this is the main reason I didn't get primary in temporary orders. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Without wearing yourself out, can you give me a general idea of what I'm looking for? How can being in a weak position be better? Examine court records of family law judges and work to get your case in front of one which is either/both down on irresponsible mothers or up on custody for fathers. Use court procedures to your advantage. My lawyer did this in matters of guardianship. I can't recall the precise legal verbiage used but similar may apply in your jurisdiction. You know your STBX's 'buttons'. Push them, legally. People make the most egregious of mistakes when emotion rules without the benefit of intellect. All the money in the world won't fix that kind of stuff. I learned this from my exW; she was great at the icy pushing of buttons. I appreciate that strategy now. Definitely network with father's rights groups. Get involved. There is strength in numbers, both psychologically and with regard to resources. Come to embrace moral relativity. I was fully prepared to melt a substantial line of credit to advance my goals, then bankrupt it, taking the hit socially and to my credit history. The goal was worth it. My goal was different from yours, but I was determined to succeed. As it turned out, bankruptcy was avoided, but it was a risk I was willing to take. Take risks. Hope it works out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Carhill, I considered a psych eval of my wife, but my lawyer said they are almost always inconclusive. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I would tend to align with your lawyer. The simpler and clearer the case is in front of the court, the better the chances for a positive outcome. From what my lawyer shared, clerks process a lot of stuff behind the scenes and share their condensed findings and opinions with the presiding judge, who then compares with what goes on prior to and during court and rules (or takes under advisement) on that process. It may be different where you live, but that's largely how it goes here. The best deals IME happen in the hallway outside the courtroom. There is often a fear of summary judgment; essentially, losing control, when entering those doors. Lastly, if your STBX has BPD, her behaviors switch on and off like a light switch. Getting that switch to flip at precisely the right moment can give you everything you need. Remember, no fear. This is war. No one wins. Everyone loses. Your goal is to lose what you don't want. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'm helped very much by your input, carhill. What kind of in the hallway exchanges go on? Are you referring to what goes on between lawyers? She fired her previous lawyer for not pushing hard enough. Her first lawyer told my lawyer she was having "client control problems". Apparently when she heard judges first ruling she and her mom had a meltdown fit in her office. Its stuff like that which I wish the judge could see. Link to post Share on other sites
Greznog Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I'm helped very much by your input, carhill. What kind of in the hallway exchanges go on? Are you referring to what goes on between lawyers? She fired her previous lawyer for not pushing hard enough. Her first lawyer told my lawyer she was having "client control problems". Apparently when she heard judges first ruling she and her mom had a meltdown fit in her office. Its stuff like that which I wish the judge could see. Doesn't matter. As a man in family court you start off with a handicap akin to being a black man going to court against a white man in rural Virginia circa 1880. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) I'm helped very much by your input, carhill. What kind of in the hallway exchanges go on? Are you referring to what goes on between lawyers? She fired her previous lawyer for not pushing hard enough. Her first lawyer told my lawyer she was having "client control problems". Apparently when she heard judges first ruling she and her mom had a meltdown fit in her office. Its stuff like that which I wish the judge could see. The best place IMO to trigger a meltdown is right outside the courtroom prior to the hearing. Do or say the unexpected. Remember, nothing out there is on the record. This is how my best friend won sole custody of his daughters over a generation ago, back when mothers seemingly always received custody. He had a lawyer well-versed in psychological tactics. Edited to add that, apparently there is already a history of 'judge' and 'meltdown'. Emotional memories can be manipulated. A good lawyer is already on that. If yours isn't fire, him or her. Edited August 20, 2012 by carhill Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 He is aware of her meltdowns and possible BPD already. What do you mean by him getting "on that"? Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Working out a legal strategy (note 'legal' merely means in compliance with criminal law) to capitalize upon the nature of her psychological condition. The lawyer should already be giving you scenarios and explaining risks and benefits, as well as advising you of the risks of doing anything outside of the law. This is what a competent and aggressive lawyer does. They are their client's advocate and get paid a pretty penny for their experience and expertise. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Doesn't matter. As a man in family court you start off with a handicap akin to being a black man going to court against a white man in rural Virginia circa 1880. And to consider that I won equal custody with no declaration of primary even after she was SAHM for 4 years. Sure, I would have liked better, but I'm lucky it wasn't worse--even with her domestic violence. My lawyer actually told me I'm lucky they didn't arrest ME when cops came. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Working out a legal strategy (note 'legal' merely means in compliance with criminal law) to capitalize upon the nature of her psychological condition. The lawyer should already be giving you scenarios and explaining risks and benefits, as well as advising you of the risks of doing anything outside of the law. This is what a competent and aggressive lawyer does. They are their client's advocate and get paid a pretty penny for their experience and expertise. He has advised me on many areas outside the law, especially how to communicate with her being irrational. Big help in that area. He advised that a psych eval is a waste of time. He also has picked and chosen which documents are effective in court from the hundreds I've given to him. He says he's a "lowballer" and doesn't like to get clients, especially men, too optimistic. He says we are trying to retain "credibility" by not asking for a hell of a lot, except what we really want. He said she has already lost her credibility and that's why judge didn't give her kids already. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott68 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 As a father who had sole custody awarded to him I can tell you that sadly you are in for a nightmare ride. The system is against you, no matter what kind of a father you are. My girls told the court they wanted to live with me and despite them being articulate and intelligent some mediator believed she knew better and that my ex-wife made a better parent. It took a threat of suicide (made by my daughter) because of the abuse being suffered by for anyone to investigate. The result is my ex hasn't had contact with them in over a year and both kids are happy and healthy as can be. My point is my case is rare and unless something crazy extraordinary happened it will be an uphill battle. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT] Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 The burden of proof is on the father. It's assumed he shouldn't be primary unless major evidence is provided. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Unless you can motivate her to act upon emotion without the benefit of intellect. It is in those moments where success can obviate prevailing law. The judge is the last resort, but can become an ally in that process. There's a lot of mileage between here and the judge. I would strongly suggest stopping right now and confining your conversations to your lawyer, presuming you continue with the present one. Lastly, as I suggested prior, spend some time reading about military strategy. At worst, you'll learn something for the future. At best, there might be a gem which sparkles in your present circumstances. Your children are your job #1 right now. Everything else is secondary. You stated that yourself. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts