Last year of college. What do I do?

August 30, 2012

Those steps sound like something you'd tell to somebody who has some sort of social anxiety disorder or one who has been incarcerated for many years and needs help with reintegrating into society.

It's insulting to be thought of as not knowing how to act like a regular person.

I'm having trouble getting women to be attracted to me, I can order a hamburger at Jack in the Box just fine, even if the cashier is female.

You clearly have problems relating to people. You probably find that statement insulting. But the evidence is pretty clear to me. Because any advice someone offers suggesting self-improvement for you, you take as insulting. You dismiss it as off topic, when it's really right on topic. Especially when they are trying to address a real, legitimate problem. Amongst the people on the site who are in need of self-improvement, you are right near the top of the list. Introspection is not one of your talents.

The "generic" self-improvement advice you often get is really identifying prerequisites to getting anywhere with women.

Edited August 30, 2012 by johan

August 30, 2012

OK that's enough for this topic. I'm not going to allow this thread to go off-topic and locked like the other one.

This thread is not about whether or not I can relate to people and I will be reporting posts as Off-topic from now on.

August 30, 2012

OP what do you look like and what sort of girls have you approached/thinking of approaching?

I hate to go on about "leagues" but it is conventional wisdom that most people date people who are as roughly as attractive as they are themselves, and not only that but people who are compatible with eachother personality-wise. If you're an average looking introvert and only interested in the good looking extroverts, you're not going to get anywhere. If this is you, you could try broadening your horizons a bit?

I'm afraid his league and what he wants are not the same thing.

August 30, 2012

I'm afraid his league and what he wants are not the same thing.

To clarify - not because of looks. Simply because a 31 year old undergrad is not in the same league as incoming, straight from high school freshmen.

There always are exceptions though.

August 30, 2012

Don't do or say anything that even hints of desperation. Censor yourself, stamp it out.

When you chat, steer the conversation towards subjects that can show off your best attributes. Practice on your own if you have to.

P.S. When I went to university I took advantage of the free mental health services to deal with stress and feelings I didn't want to discuss with friends. It was great, and you have to pay an arm and a leg for that stuff once you're in the real working world.

August 30, 2012

To clarify - not because of looks. Simply because a 31 year old undergrad is not in the same league as incoming, straight from high school freshmen.

There always are exceptions though.

Not that I'm actually interested in 18 year old girls, but why are they too good for me?

August 30, 2012

Don't do or say anything that even hints of desperation. Censor yourself, stamp it out.

Oh I know far better than to do anything like that.

The only time that would be a problem with me is when I really like the girl and have known her for a long time. Even then, I don't think the last even thought that I was half as desperate as I really was.

When you chat, steer the conversation towards subjects that can show off your best attributes. Practice on your own if you have to.

Hmm, I'm not really sure what you mean or how to do this.

P.S. When I went to university I took advantage of the free mental health services to deal with stress and feelings I didn't want to discuss with friends. It was great, and you have to pay an arm and a leg for that stuff once you're in the real working world.

Yeah I've spent a lot of time in the counseling section on campus. I've definitely used their services. I may go again.

August 30, 2012

Not that I'm actually interested in 18 year old girls, but why are they too good for me?

Nowhere did I say or even imply that they are "too good" for you. You could just as easily be "too good" for them. I said clearly that, if you believe in the "league" theory, they are not in the same one as you are.

They are in a league with age peers; people who have similar life experiences as theirs.

It's not all about looks no matter how much you try to make it so. There are lots of good looking people; they are NOT all potential mates for one another just because they are about the same level of physically attractive. That's completely ridiculous.

This is what DATING is for. People are attracted enough to go on A DATE. ONE. And THEN they decide if they have enough going on TOGETHER to warrant something more, like go on one more date and get to know one another further. Or, even maybe make out or have sex. Or, maybe not. Maybe they'll end up getting married or never seeing each other again.

Unless you are just about devoid of any depth at all, the path that is taken after the initial first date is not defined by whether the people are similarly good looking.

Of course, you could confine yourself to hopefully sitting around bars making moves on drunk chicks; this would bypass the whole part where people need to see if they like each other at all.

No matter how much you insist … it just isn't so. You'd be well advised to believe me, too. You are going to have to take the realities of other people (even ones with vaginas) into consideration if you seriously plan to have stuff to do with any of them.

August 31, 2012

Not that I'm actually interested in 18 year old girls, but why are they too good for me?

Now, see, noone SAID they were too GOOD for you. Just not compatible.

Maybe you could do some work with the therapist on why you are so defensive.

August 31, 2012

fwiw, my daughter will be 22 on Sunday. She is a senior. When she was 19 and a freshman, she wouldn't even consider a senior - too OLD. When she was a sophomore, she was willing to look at juniors and MAYBE a senior (21-22 year old), as anyone older than that would be CREEPY. As a junior, she was ready to look for seniors and maybe would consider someone up to the age of 24, as she felt in the same 'league' as them. Now that she's a senior, she's looking for graduate students (22-26 year olds) - anyone younger than that is too immature.

We've had this discussion a dozen times (we are best friends). She won't even TALK to a 30 year old, let alone consider dating him. To her, that guy is MAJOR creepy and out of her league and SO unable to be on the same page with her.

That's what out of your league means.

August 31, 2012

fwiw, my daughter will be 22 on Sunday. She is a senior. When she was 19 and a freshman, she wouldn't even consider a senior - too OLD. When she was a sophomore, she was willing to look at juniors and MAYBE a senior (21-22 year old), as anyone older than that would be CREEPY. As a junior, she was ready to look for seniors and maybe would consider someone up to the age of 24, as she felt in the same 'league' as them. Now that she's a senior, she's looking for graduate students (22-26 year olds) - anyone younger than that is too immature.

We've had this discussion a dozen times (we are best friends). She won't even TALK to a 30 year old, let alone consider dating him. To her, that guy is MAJOR creepy and out of her league and SO unable to be on the same page with her.

That's what out of your league means.

Exactly right. For an 18-22 year old girl, a 31 year old is just light years beyond their consideration, UNLESS that 31 year old guy is:

-Awfully hot

-Awfully successful/rich

-Lots of interesting life experience to offer

A 31 year old whose life experiences are more akin to a 14 year old (by SomeDude's own direct admission... not my own words) is not appealing to 99% of 18-22 year old girls. It's just not. That's reality. The sooner one accepts it, the better.

SomeDude, why don't you try for more mature women, like 27-32 years old? Your chance of success with a woman 27-32 is MUCH more realistic than an 18-22 year old. You say you want SUCCESS with women? Then listen to those of us who are telling you you're MUCH better off going after 27-32 year olds than 18-24 year olds.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Meeks7

August 31, 2012

We've been through this before on his other thread. He is SO insecure with women and SO awkward, yet SO horny (no offense), that he thinks his best chance at scoring is to find an immature, inexperienced 18 year old who will look up to him as an 'older man' and let him lead the way - and have little or nothing to compare him against. The reason he doesn't approach women his own age IS because of his awkwardness and his fear that someone his age will find him out of HER league and laugh at him in some way.

What's worse than that, IMO, is that he has NO interest in just making friends or hanging out with people or just...living. All he wants is for a girl to want him and have sex with him. He's not willing to 'waste time' on anything else. He is exactly at the same place he was at a year ago.

August 31, 2012

We've been through this before on his other thread. He is SO insecure with women and SO awkward, yet SO horny (no offense), that he thinks his best chance at scoring is to find an immature, inexperienced 18 year old who will look up to him as an 'older man' and let him lead the way. The reason he doesn't approach women his own age IS because of his awkwardness and his fear that someone his age will find him out of HER league and laugh at him in some way.

Your thoughts on this, SomeDude? Do you find women in your age range (27-32) to be even moreso intimidating than women ages 18-24?

He is exactly at the same place he was at a year ago.

It always saddens me when I see someone caught in the same position year after year. He's just going to have to try and try until that light bulb moment happens for him. I can tell you from personal experience that light bulb moment where you get it is just awesome. It's like you can see clearly all of a sudden, and a burden is lifted off your shoulders. You're wiser, and you mature.

Until then, it is what it is.

August 31, 2012

We've talked before about just putting this on the back burner and instead going out and joining clubs or signing up for a leisure learning class or something else that he can just hang around a bunch of people and stop focusing on getting a girl. We keep telling him that once he is able to just be himself, THEN he will run into a girl who will like what she sees and start talking to him. And THAT is the kind of girl he wants. Or should want.

August 31, 2012

We've talked before about just putting this on the back burner and instead going out and joining clubs or signing up for a leisure learning class or something else that he can just hang around a bunch of people and stop focusing on getting a girl. We keep telling him that once he is able to just be himself, THEN he will run into a girl who will like what she sees and start talking to him. And THAT is the kind of girl he wants. Or should want.

That would be a form of self-improvement. He wants sex from hot young American women. The former is off topic. The latter is the only thing to be discussed here. Tell him how to get sex, dammit!!

August 31, 2012

We've talked before about just putting this on the back burner and instead going out and joining clubs or signing up for a leisure learning class or something else that he can just hang around a bunch of people and stop focusing on getting a girl. We keep telling him that once he is able to just be himself, THEN he will run into a girl who will like what she sees and start talking to him. And THAT is the kind of girl he wants. Or should want.

True, but he doesn't like to hear that kind of post or advice.

Sadly, it's by denying living that very kind of lifestyle that is actually hindering him. In his mind he believes if he did all those things it would only distract/prolong him from getting into a relationship.

You just can't skip steps in life. When you do, the results speak for themselves.

August 31, 2012

That would be a form of self-improvement. He wants sex from hot young American women. The former is off topic. The latter is the only thing to be discussed here. Tell him how to get sex, dammit!!

Well, duh, find a brothel.

August 31, 2012

fwiw, dude, I'm NOT trying to be rude. I'm trying to help you. I have twice as many years on thius planet as you and a hell of a lot more experience. Listen to those of us who know how to make life easier for you. TRY our way.

August 31, 2012

Oh I know far better than to do anything like that.

Just be mindful of it. The only surefire way to not betray desperation is to not feel desperartion, and I think you'd be surprised at the things that other people can pick up on.

Take on a air of not caring too much, and if you can adopt that attitude, even better!

The only time that would be a problem with me is when I really like the girl and have known her for a long time. Even then, I don't think the last even thought that I was half as desperate as I really was.

Since you've already pledged to not let it go that far this year, you're good on that front right? And it's not that you have to be super desperate to scare someone away, even a hint of it will turn someone off.

Hmm, I'm not really sure what you mean or how to do this.

If you're a funny, witty guy, tell lots of funny, witty jokes. If you're very knowledgeable about a subject, talk about that. Surely there's something that you're passionate about that you can speak confidently for hours about. That will showcase you're strengths.

And pay attention to a woman's perhaps more subtle cues. Lots of eye contact, touching, laughing and blushing. She should also reply to you right away if you contact her, if she seeks you out even better. If you get these signals, flirt back and forge ahead.

Yeah I've spent a lot of time in the counseling section on campus. I've definitely used their services. I may go again.

Good. Definitely do as it's free.

September 1, 2012

You just can't skip steps in life. When you do, the results speak for themselves.

I actually don't agree with this. Life isn't a bunch of linear steps. It isn't: "Hey I see a girl I want to meet! Can I meet her? Well, I don't yet have enough friends. And I don't yet belong to 3 clubs. Damn! I haven't done the previous steps and well, you just can't skip steps in life. Guess I can't meet her after all, better avert my eyes, how silly of me thinking I had a shot! :mad:"

Meeks, you are coming from the perspective that SD can hardly walk into a cafe and order himself a sandwich. Thats not really true, and there are a lot of guys not too much unlike SD who are dating. Difference is, they put themselves in front of women. Just as SD is STARTING TO do with salsa and whatnot.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Imajerk17

September 1, 2012

Ima, I agree with a small portion of your post. I also disagree with a large portion, which I will get to.

Life isn't a bunch of linear steps.

Agreed in some ways. Life isn't always a bunch of linear steps. In general, that can be true. It's not always ABCDEFGHI and so forth. Sometimes it's ACFY. That's what makes life funky.

It isn't: "Hey I see a girl I want to meet! Can I meet her? Well, I don't yet have enough friends. And I don't yet belong to 3 clubs. Damn! I haven't done the previous steps and well, you just can't skip steps in life. Guess I can't meet her after all, better avert my eyes, how silly of me thinking I had a shot! :mad:"

Now, let's apply context. Remember, we're talking specifically about one person: SomeDude81. By his extensive post history, it is clear and he admits this on his own, he has ZERO self-confidence, and ZERO self-belief. And just about ZERO experience with the opposite sex (or quite frankly, relationships in general with ALL sexes i.e. quality male friendships) in 31 years of life experience.

So he's hanging out around the bottom of the barrel. I'm not saying in my posts that he CAN'T approach women. I'm not saying he CAN'T think about meeting women. I'm not saying he CAN'T look to get a girlfriend... but at this point, his perspective should be MORESO on "How can I become a better man" than "How can I get a woman." The ironic thing is, if he focuses on genuinely applying the former, he would actually in the process attract more women. Go figure!

If you want to argue that, then that's your perogative.

But it's pretty clear to me he's got some core issues he must iron out... before he can even attract a woman to him. Instead of tackling these issues, he avoids them, and is it any wonder he's been stuck in the same spot for so long?

True, if he did more cold approaches, he might have a little more success, but at the end of the day, it still will come back to his core issues. Among those, again, from his extensive post history (and self-admission), is his lack of relational ability.

So, in HIS case, learning to walk before he attempts to run might be prudent.

Meeks, you are coming from the perspective that SD can hardly walk into a cafe and order himself a sandwich.

Wrong, I believe he can do this. Again, it's your interpretation.

What I believe he can't do is attract a woman because his core issues are so deep and self-ingrained. He needs small steps of victories, and needs to learn how to relate to other people better on a real meaningful level. That's why so many of us tell him to start out small first (ironically, small is actually big) by making some friends, take some pressure off himself, and just learn to enjoy life a little bit. Life doesn't start when one has a girlfriend. I feel like that's one of his beliefs, and it's just not true. I believe this by the things he said over and over in the past... "Once I have a girlfriend, then I will work on _____." He's making the grave mistake that he'll start working on these things ONCE he gets a girlfriend. Well, it's probably the opposite that's true. His thinking also justifies his standing still in life. When he doesn't get a GF, year after year, he still hasn't worked on himself getting better as a man. Is it any wonder why he's been stuck in the same spot year after year?

September 1, 2012

Now, let's apply context. Remember, we're talking specifically about one person: SomeDude81. By his extensive post history, it is clear and he admits this on his own, he has ZERO self-confidence, and ZERO self-belief. And just about ZERO experience with the opposite sex (or quite frankly, relationships in general with ALL sexes i.e. quality male friendships) in 31 years of life experience.

So he's hanging out around the bottom of the barrel. I'm not saying in my posts that he CAN'T approach women. I'm not saying he CAN'T think about meeting women. I'm not saying he CAN'T look to get a girlfriend... but at this point, his perspective should be MORESO on "How can I become a better man" than "How can I get a woman." The ironic thing is, if he focuses on genuinely applying the former, he would actually in the process attract more women. Go figure!

If you want to argue that, then that's your perogative.

But it's pretty clear to me he's got some core issues he must iron out... before he can even attract a woman to him. Instead of tackling these issues, he avoids them, and is it any wonder he's been stuck in the same spot for so long?

True, if he did more cold approaches, he might have a little more success, but at the end of the day, it still will come back to his core issues. Among those, again, from his extensive post history (and self-admission), is his lack of relational ability.

So, in HIS case, learning to walk before he attempts to run might be prudent.

No doubt SD said these things. And yes, from some of the things SD has admitted about himself in his more self-pitying threads, you might think he needs to have his hand held to get through the day or something. Like that guy "Ralph" you mentioned who basically creeps everyone out.

But I'm not sure these things are really true about SD. From his posts when he isn't in Self-Pity mode, I get the impression he isn't socially clueless so much as he struggles with attraction/connection thing enough to get a woman to feel something. My understanding is that he HAS gotten girls to hang out with him so he has the basic social skills you all seem to insist that he lacks (and that some of the things he himself says would suggest that too). Thing is that the girls don't feel that it is a date, and so his confidence is zero.

RE not having friends: Thing is, a lot of introverts tend to keep to themselves. By the time many people get to 30, you have a couple of friends here and there but the days of running with a circle of friends are pretty much done. I'm in my late 30's, and I don't have a "circle". I still date plenty though.

Wrong, I believe he can do this. Again, it's your interpretation.

What I believe he can't do is attract a woman because his core issues are so deep and self-ingrained. He needs small steps of victories, and needs to learn how to relate to other people better on a real meaningful level. That's why so many of us tell him to start out small first (ironically, small is actually big) by making some friends, take some pressure off himself, and just learn to enjoy life a little bit. Life doesn't start when one has a girlfriend. I feel like that's one of his beliefs, and it's just not true. I believe this by the things he said over and over in the past... "Once I have a girlfriend, then I will work on _____." He's making the grave mistake that he'll start working on these things ONCE he gets a girlfriend. Well, it's probably the opposite that's true. His thinking also justifies his standing still in life. When he doesn't get a GF, year after year, he still hasn't worked on himself getting better as a man. Is it any wonder why he's been stuck in the same spot year after year?

Well, that's almost the same thing (what I bolded). And I don't really agree. He is frustrated no doubt but I can see why as it's been a while since he has been with a woman. He just needs to drop the self-pity and put himself out there. You can learn social skills, make friends, and in general "work on yourself" while you learn how to meet and flirt with women.

There are dudes who spend their days hanging on a street corner who have no problem with women.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Imajerk17

September 1, 2012

My understanding is that he HAS gotten girls to hang out with him so he has the basic social skills you all seem to insist that he lacks (and that some of the things he himself says would suggest that too).

Remember how his situation with Danielle ended up? And remember how he publicly processed his feelings? Saying he has anger issues, how he broke controllers, and wanted to yell at her and see if she'd cry?

When "relationships" blow up like that, there are some issues. Since Danielle exited stage left, what kind of relationships has he fostered?

We'll see how he does this new school year, but SomeDude, PLEASE make sure you keep your grades up. Whatever you decide to do or not do with girls, make the grade. That's really what matters here.

Graduate with high marks, apply for a real job, and get yourself secured as much as it is possible. You'll have opportunities for girls the rest of your life. But a formal high education? This is your last year.