Last year of college. What do I do?

[Meeks7]

Was going to write a detailed reply, but why even bother.

 

SomeDude, don't waste your last collegiate year (academically).

 

Period.

[somedude81]

Was going to write a detailed reply, but why even bother.

 

SomeDude, don't waste your last collegiate year (academically).

 

Period.

"Roger that."

 

And now it never needs to be mentioned again, by you or any one else.

[turnera]

By his extensive post history, it is clear and he admits this on his own, he has ZERO self-confidence, and ZERO self-belief. And just about ZERO experience with the opposite sex (or quite frankly, relationships in general with ALL sexes i.e. quality male friendships) in 31 years of life experience

it's pretty clear to me he's got some core issues he must iron out... before he can even attract a woman to him. Instead of tackling these issues, he avoids them, and is it any wonder he's been stuck in the same spot for so long?

his core issues are so deep and self-ingrained. He needs small steps of victories, and needs to learn how to relate to other people better on a real meaningful level. That's why so many of us tell him to start out small first (ironically, small is actually big) by making some friends, take some pressure off himself, and just learn to enjoy life a little bit. Life doesn't start when one has a girlfriend.

This.

 

fwiw, I've talked to my DD22 about this at length, and mind you, she is VERY open minded and willing to consider anything, and she has said repeatedly that she wouldn't even be comfortable being friends with you, let alone dating you, until you have worked out your socialization issues. In fact, she had a guy her freshman year who was a lot like you, and she literally asked me to help her figure out how to get him to stop talking to her, because he scared her!

 

Learn to hang around people. Learn to make friends. Learn to be easy going and at peace with yourself. Work on that and the girls will follow. But you won't get the girls first.

[turnera]

I get the impression he isn't socially clueless so much as he struggles with attraction/connection thing enough to get a woman to feel something.

MY issue with SD is that he has flat out said he doesn't CARE about being friends with anyone. He has no time for friends and no INTEREST in friends, and he most certainly doesn't want to be a friend with a girl - he just wants a girl to like him and want to have sex with him.

 

IMO, that's lacking a certain level of empathy and interest in other people. THAT is what bothers me. He seems to just want women cos they will make him happy, mentally and physically. Never even mentions that he wants to make THEM happy. He can't be bothered with relationships.

Edited September 2, 2012 by turnera

[Imajerk17]

If SD truly has these relational problems (I'm not convinced as he is able to get a girl to hang out w him a few times and she probably would have suspected before then) then this "walk before you run" approach you speak of still will not give him the INTENT to give.

 

At the end of the day we arent therapists. We cant diagnose and treat issues and we shouldn't try to. We can basically give dating advice and maybe that's what we should stick to.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Imajerk17

[turnera]

I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with SD. I think he needs to expand his focus, that's all. Expand his search to include getting out and meeting people for friends, join clubs for the purpose of having fun, not for the purpose of getting a girl, so that he can become more satisfied in all aspects of life. If he continues to believe that having a girl want him is the only way to happiness, all he'll get is girls who enjoy hurting guys. And he'll still never be happy.

 

SD, did you ever read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.? It explains this perspective.

[somedude81]

Nowhere did I say or even imply that they are "too good" for you. You could just as easily be "too good" for them. I said clearly that, if you believe in the "league" theory, they are not in the same one as you are.

 

They are in a league with age peers; people who have similar life experiences as theirs.

Similar life experiences.

 

Has anybody thought about that, that reason is exactly why I tend to prefer the younger women?

 

What life experiences would I have in common with a woman my age?

 

When it comes to league, I only believe it applies to looks, and lifestyle/social class.

 

It's not all about looks no matter how much you try to make it so. There are lots of good looking people; they are NOT all potential mates for one another just because they are about the same level of physically attractive. That's completely ridiculous.

That doesn't change the fact that leagues based on looks is a very common belief.

 

This is what DATING is for. People are attracted enough to go on A DATE. ONE. And THEN they decide if they have enough going on TOGETHER to warrant something more, like go on one more date and get to know one another further. Or, even maybe make out or have sex. Or, maybe not. Maybe they'll end up getting married or never seeing each other again.

 

Unless you are just about devoid of any depth at all, the path that is taken after the initial first date is not defined by whether the people are similarly good looking.

 

Of course, you could confine yourself to hopefully sitting around bars making moves on drunk chicks; this would bypass the whole part where people need to see if they like each other at all.

 

No matter how much you insist … it just isn't so.

I've never said otherwise.

fwiw, my daughter will be 22 on Sunday. She is a senior. When she was 19 and a freshman, she wouldn't even consider a senior - too OLD. When she was a sophomore, she was willing to look at juniors and MAYBE a senior (21-22 year old), as anyone older than that would be CREEPY. As a junior, she was ready to look for seniors and maybe would consider someone up to the age of 24, as she felt in the same 'league' as them. Now that she's a senior, she's looking for graduate students (22-26 year olds) - anyone younger than that is too immature.

 

We've had this discussion a dozen times (we are best friends). She won't even TALK to a 30 year old, let alone consider dating him. To her, that guy is MAJOR creepy and out of her league and SO unable to be on the same page with her.

 

That's what out of your league means.

If I met your daughter in a dance class or had a class where we sat close together and had the opportunity to talk, I guarantee that she would have problem conversing with me at all, unless she was really stuckup.

 

The biggest reason behind that, is she would have no clue at all that I was 31.

 

We've been through this before on his other thread. He is SO insecure with women and SO awkward, yet SO horny (no offense), that he thinks his best chance at scoring is to find an immature, inexperienced 18 year old who will look up to him as an 'older man' and let him lead the way

 

- and have little or nothing to compare him against. The reason he doesn't approach women his own age IS because of his awkwardness and his fear that someone his age will find him out of HER league and laugh at him in some way.

I have very little relationship and sex experience. It won't be possible for me to lead the way. I'd prefer a woman who has a similar level of experience and we can figure things out as we go along.

 

A woman my age, who has an average amount of experience, will most likely lose her patience with me very quickly. She would expect more from men than I would be able to provide.

 

What's worse than that, IMO, is that he has NO interest in just making friends or hanging out with people or just...living. All he wants is for a girl to want him and have sex with him. He's not willing to 'waste time' on anything else. He is exactly at the same place he was at a year ago.

 

Frankly, I'd like to hear any reason(s) why I'd be a poor boyfriend for a 22 year old.

[somedude81]

This.

 

fwiw, I've talked to my DD22 about this at length, and mind you, she is VERY open minded and willing to consider anything, and she has said repeatedly that she wouldn't even be comfortable being friends with you, let alone dating you, until you have worked out your socialization issues. In fact, she had a guy her freshman year who was a lot like you, and she literally asked me to help her figure out how to get him to stop talking to her, because he scared her!

Hah, she doesn't sound that open minded to me.

MY issue with SD is that he has flat out said he doesn't CARE about being friends with anyone. He has no time for friends and no INTEREST in friends, and he most certainly doesn't want to be a friend with a girl - he just wants a girl to like him and want to have sex with him.

I've never said I don't have any time for friends. I also have nothing against making or having guy friends. I'm just not going to go out of my way to make a guy friend. If I meet a guy and he wants me to hang out with him, great, I'd do it. But I'm not going to keep trying to make plans with somebody hoping he has time.

 

At this time I don't want female friends because I keep falling for them. I'm very tired of getting close to a girl, spending time with her, developing feelings and then getting hurt.

 

I need to make sure that when I spend time with a girl, it would be a date and not just friends hanging out. I certainly need to avoid hanging out on a regular basis with a girl that I'm just friends with. I've done that with too many girls and it always ended bad.

 

In fact, she had a guy her freshman year who was a lot like you, and she literally asked me to help her figure out how to get him to stop talking to her, because he scared her!

What about the guy scared her?

 

Never even mentions that he wants to make THEM happy. He can't be bothered with relationships.

Where do you even get this stuff?

 

Are you really reading my posts?

 

Everything I do in regards to women I spend time with is to make them happy.

 

Frankly, one thing I was getting tired of, is trying so hard to make girls happy, when none of them ever put any effort in trying to make me happy. It's always me having to come up with ways to entertain her.

[Imajerk17]

I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with SD. I think he needs to expand his focus, that's all. Expand his search to include getting out and meeting people for friends, join clubs for the purpose of having fun, not for the purpose of getting a girl, so that he can become more satisfied in all aspects of life. If he continues to believe that having a girl want him is the only way to happiness, all he'll get is girls who enjoy hurting guys. And he'll still never be happy.

 

SD, did you ever read the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.? It explains this perspective.

 

You know, I actually agree with this.

 

I have also been where Somedude81 has been. I hardly dated at all in my 20's. In the entire DECADE from 19--29, I kissed only 1 girl. Compare that to now, when I am in my late 30's, when this past year I have slept with two girls in the same WEEK. If I could bring my 19-year-old self forward in time to meet the person I am now, I think my 19-year-old self would be pretty impressed.

 

Why was I so inexperienced with women before? Bad social skills? Probably. I, like Somedude81, also thought my happiness revolved around getting a girl. I wasn't really a viable boyfriend option to the types of girls I found attractive. Not enough life experience, and furthermore, I hardly had any friends.

 

How did I dig myself out of it? Well, honestly, I certainly didn't "walk before I try to run". I instead did lots and lots of cold approaches. Most of them went nowhere but a few actually went somewhere. They also inspired me in that I also made efforts to improve myself. I did both--cold approaching and self-improvement, full force. But I needed to do both. And if I had thought of myself as "bottom of the barrel" and that I couldn't attract women due to my "deep-seated insecurities" (to quote Meeks) I just wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

 

Truth is, most people lead rather boring lives. There are plenty of girls on Somedude's campus, who are age-appropriate AND who would go out with Somedude even in his current form.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Imajerk17]

I have very little relationship and sex experience. It won't be possible for me to lead the way. I'd prefer a woman who has a similar level of experience and we can figure things out as we go along.

 

A woman my age, who has an average amount of experience, will most likely lose her patience with me very quickly. She would expect more from men than I would be able to provide.

 

Frankly, I'd like to hear any reason(s) why I'd be a poor boyfriend for a 22 year old.

 

I wouldn't sweat it because you'll catch on quick. If the girl is interested she'll chalk it up to "nerves". Do things like put your arm around her and/or hold her hand during the first date if it's going well, and if you're making out, try to get your hands in her pants until she tells you to stop. It's not rocket science.

 

Sex just isn't that big a deal.

 

Don't worry whether the girl feels you're too old. As long as you don't feel the girl is too young for you and the conversation is going well, as for her number. That said, your wheelhouse probably will be girls in their mid to late 20's.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Meeks7]

Has anybody thought about that, that reason is exactly why I tend to prefer the younger women?

 

What life experiences would I have in common with a woman my age?

 

Yes, YOU prefer the younger women (18-22). But have you ever thought about what THEY prefer?

 

In 99% cases, 18-22 year old college women are NOT looking for an inexperienced 31 year old who doesn't have a full time career job or rich with varied life experiences.

 

This is the issue. You keep aiming for 18-22 year olds, but your chances of success with one is essentially less than 1 percent. As we've said before, you're much better off going after someone 27-32 years old... someone who lacks experience as well, just like you.

 

If you keep chasing these 18-22 year olds, you're going to be disappointed time after time. My recommendation, ask out older women, even if you're intimidated by the idea. Aim for 27-32. It is much more likely that a quiet, inexperienced, shy 29 year old will give you a dating shot versus a quiet, inexperienced, shy 18-22 year old

Edited September 2, 2012 by Meeks7

[Imajerk17]

Yes, YOU prefer the younger women (18-22). But have you ever thought about what THEY prefer?

 

In 99% cases, 18-22 year old college women are NOT looking for an inexperienced 31 year old who doesn't have a full time career job or rich with varied life experiences.

 

This is the issue. You keep aiming for 18-22 year olds, but your chances of success with one is essentially less than 1 percent. As we've said before, you're much better off going after someone 27-32 years old... someone who lacks experience as well, just like you.

 

If you keep chasing these 18-22 year olds, you're going to be disappointed time after time. My recommendation, ask out older women, even if you're intimidated by the idea. Aim for 27-32. It is much more likely that a quiet, inexperienced, shy 29 year old will give you a dating shot versus a quiet, inexperienced, shy 18-22 year old

Wow Meeks, your posts to Somedude are so uplifting. SD has to feel so inspired knowing how highly you think about him. [sarcasm font]

[Imajerk17]

Yes, YOU prefer the younger women (18-22). But have you ever thought about what THEY prefer?

 

In 99% cases, 18-22 year old college women are NOT looking for an inexperienced 31 year old who doesn't have a full time career job or rich with varied life experiences.

 

This is the issue. You keep aiming for 18-22 year olds, but your chances of success with one is essentially less than 1 percent. As we've said before, you're much better off going after someone 27-32 years old... someone who lacks experience as well, just like you.

 

If you keep chasing these 18-22 year olds, you're going to be disappointed time after time. My recommendation, ask out older women, even if you're intimidated by the idea. Aim for 27-32. It is much more likely that a quiet, inexperienced, shy 29 year old will give you a dating shot versus a quiet, inexperienced, shy 18-22 year old

Wow Meeks, your posts to Somedude are so uplifting. SD has to feel so inspired every time he reads one of your encouraging posts, and knowing how highly you think about him. [sarcasm font]

[Meeks7]

Wow Meeks, your posts to Somedude are so uplifting. SD has to feel so inspired every time he reads one of your encouraging posts, and knowing how highly you think about him. [sarcasm font]

 

Uh, OK. Excuse me if truth overrides lying to someone and telling them it's OK to keep trying something that simply will not work.

 

One has to accept reality. If one does not, then prolonged pain and disappointment occurs continuously.

 

I didn't create the rules. It's just the way it is. Most 18-22 year old women will not be interested in SomeDude81. That's not necessarily a knock on him as it is reality.

 

He wants success, and I'm telling him what would bring him a greater % of success... and that's looking at older women, 27-32 (right in his age range).

 

I don't see what's so bad about that... unless of course, you have a bias and look at the username who posted it. Really, I don't see anything bad about what I wrote. I am speaking the truth to SomeDude. I'm offering him another strategy which would yield a higher % of success.

[somedude81]

Tell you what Meeks7. Once I graduate college, I'll give up on women younger than 25.

 

Until then, they are fair game and I will not let anybody discourage me.

[Meeks7]

Tell you what Meeks7. Once I graduate college, I'll give up on women younger than 25.

 

Until then, they are fair game and I will not let anybody discourage me.

 

Of course you can stick to your guns. It's your perogative.

 

All I said was if you EXPAND your horizon to older women, your % of success would increase dramatically. And success with women (whether they're 20 or 30) is what you want, right?

 

Well, the chances a shy 29 year old would be open to dating you is far greater than a shy 19 year old.

 

Just don't bang your head in the wall if and when it doesn't work out with the under 26 crowd. They are simply looking for something else and will not be interested in a 31 year old. All you're doing is stacking the odds against you. But we all gotta live and learn and find our own way in life...

[Imajerk17]

@Meeks: I actually agree that late 20s would br a better age for SD. I also think you don't need to keep putting in "no life experience" in every one of your posts on his threads.

 

I just think you come across very condescending. Maybe you ought to stop posting on his threads? For your sake as much as snyone elses....

Edited September 3, 2012 by Imajerk17

[somedude81]

How are things with that Czech girl going you mentioned a while ago in another thread?

I haven't had a class with her since I made that thread, but I'll see her in class this week.

[Meeks7]

I also think you don't need to keep putting in "no life experience" in every one of your posts on his threads.

 

He himself admitted once his life experiences are more akin to a 14 year old. Himself. I'm not insulting him when I say no life experiences. He hasn't argued with that because he has clearly established that HIMSELF.

 

I'm basically starting at ground zero.

 

And Ima... are you the same one who wrote this on page 1 of this thread?

 

 

You didn't get enough advice in all your previous threads??

 

(A) Go back and reread all the advice given to you in your previous threads.

 

(B) The condensed version of all the advice you've gotten so far from Meeks, Teknoe, and everyone else: Push yourself out of your comfort zone in a meaningful significant way.

 

All of a sudden, you're challenging every reply I've made in this thread.

Weird... I think you're getting the wrong interpretation of my posts in this thread. If a guy keeps getting hurt using the same strategy, wouldn't you want him to consider other strategies?

[somedude81]

Meeks, enough is enough. Seriously dude. Find something else to do other than post here.

Ask her out to dinner, telling her that you would like to get to know her better.

 

Don't just use her to get laid.

 

Remember when I advised you to go for a European girl some time ago? You said you didn't know any European girls. Well now you do.

 

The fact that she was having a long conversation with you a while ago counts for something.

 

She's following dancing classes for a reason, she's an exchange student without a boyfriend.

 

You have an opportunity here.

 

You said she has everything you ever wanted in a woman.

 

Go man...go for it!!!

Invite her to dinner? That seems really sudden. I've only talked to her once so far.

 

Is there any intermediate step I can do?

[Meeks7]

Meeks, enough is enough. Seriously dude. Find something else to do other than post here.

 

Invite her to dinner? That seems really sudden. I've only talked to her once so far.

 

Is there any intermediate step I can do?

 

1. It is a public forum. The funny thing is, because I'm not patting you on the back like veggirl or 49, you see me more as a "foe" than an "ally." When in reality, I have been in your shoes and succeeded by going from "girl obsessive lone wolf" to "learning to be comfortable in my own skin and now have a girlfriend"

 

2. Inviting her to dinner is not sudden at all. It's how you convey interest immediately, that you're not beating around the bush, and that you are serious to get to know her on a deeper level.

 

The longer you wait around, the quicker you will be friend zoned.

 

Any "intermediate" step leads you to the friend zone. Listen to Heart. Ask her out next time you see her.

[Imajerk17]

Meeks, I thought you gave some decent advice. But you said your piece several times over. Its really HOW you say it that's offputting. SD did indeed say "no experience" but there is no need for you to keep rubbing it in with every post of yours. Enough is enough. Go hang out with Beth!

 

SD you have to strike when the iron is hot. Ask her to dinner. Even if she turns out to be under 22 haha.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Pirouette]

There probably is, but that would only drag things out (unnecessarily).

 

Let her know where you stand.

 

Get a conversation started with her and ask:

 

Hey Anna, do want to go out to dinner some time? I'd like to get to know you better. *smile while you ask it*

 

I don't know if her name is Anna, but you get the point.

 

Personally, I would prefer drinks at a bar or a nice lounge.

 

You can still say you want to get to know her better, and if you pick a nice lounge you guys can dress up nice and keep it intimate. With drinks, there's less pressure, and if things go well you can suggest grabbing a bite to eat or going out to dance.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Has anybody thought about that, that reason is exactly why I tend to prefer the younger women?

 

What life experiences would I have in common with a woman my age?

 

A woman in "your league" would be a woman close to your age who had a similar amount of social experience as you do, who is not much better or worse looking, more or less educated, or richer or poorer than you are.

 

When it comes to league, I only believe it applies to looks, and lifestyle/social class.

 

Believe what you like, but social status / experience and age also play a role in it among the rest of the world.

 

The biggest reason behind that, is she would have no clue at all that I was 31.

 

This is just pathetic. Do you know how many people think that nobody knows how old they are? They are posting about it on LoveShack over and over.

 

Maybe they won't know you are 31. They WILL know that you are not in their age group. At all.

 

And if they don't, they will find out soon. If you try to lie or conceal it, you will come off as a serious creep and they won't like you.

 

You ARE 31, and there is no shame in it. It would be a rare, rare early 20's girl who will be interested in a man of your age at your place in life. I'm not saying it can't happen. I think the odds are extremely low.

 

Really, you would do much better with a similarly socially awkward, or slow starting or however you want to express it, woman in your age group. Maybe you can find one who NO ONE could EVER, POSSIBLY guess was actually your age … just think how perfect that would be?

 

I have very little relationship and sex experience. It won't be possible for me to lead the way. I'd prefer a woman who has a similar level of experience and we can figure things out as we go along.

 

Well, that is usually how the young'uns go about it. That's what they'll be doing amongst themselves. You are not one of them, and they are so very unlikely to choose a 31 year old inexperienced man to have these experiments with when they are surrounded by guys in their own league.

 

A woman my age, who has an average amount of experience, will most likely lose her patience with me very quickly. She would expect more from men than I would be able to provide.

 

A girl in her late teens / early 20's will have very high and specific expectations if she wishes to date a man a decade older than she is. She will really be looking for that worldly experience, and / or financial success.

 

Otherwise, what do you think her motivation could possibly be to date a guy who's been alive half of her own lifetime longer than she has?

 

 

Frankly, I'd like to hear any reason(s) why I'd be a poor boyfriend for a 22 year old.

 

I'm not sure you have figured out yet what makes a GOOD boyfriend for a girl / woman of any age. But whether you'd be a "poor" one for a 22 year old or not, she is going to have to want to be your girlfriend in the first place. Which is unlikely.

 

I swear, SD. I am not saying any of this to be mean. I was a teenager, I was in my early 20's. I would NEVER have been interested in an older, inexperienced guy at that stage of my life. When I was 20 and very inexperienced, I had a 29 year old boyfriend. Why did I fall so hard for that guy? Because he was an "older man" to me. He was already retired from being a pro soccer player due to injury. He was "famous" in his region. He was a LATIN LOVER!!! I was swept away.

 

There is not a thing wrong with wanting and liking what you do, but the chances of it getting anywhere are pretty slim. Meanwhile, you are growing older … but your experience is not increasing, and you are still hot after the young girls. How awesome will it be next decade, if it turns out we were all correct and your dreams of nubile young hotties are not coming true?

 

You keep defining yourself by your lack of experience, and trying to make that out to equal being young. But being not so young and having little experience is a huge defining factor of who you are.

 

Sure, you like what you like - but the truth is that this is extremely likely to stand in your way and prevent anything at all from happening for you. I hope I'm wrong. But I hope even more that you will start to consider other ways of looking at potential girlfriends. Otherwise, I predict that you will be still mooning after barely adult women when you are 41, and still claiming that they are in your "league" and that they can't tell how old you are anyway.

 

You don't want that.

[turnera]

Meeks, enough is enough. Seriously dude. Find something else to do other than post here.

 

Invite her to dinner? That seems really sudden. I've only talked to her once so far.

 

Is there any intermediate step I can do?

Does your college have a cafeteria? As you walk into class, say hi and say 'hey, you wanna go to the cafeteria after class (whenever appropriate)? We could compare notes.'

 

And, if you don't have a meal plan, you could offer to pay for her lunch. Very nonthreatening. And a great way for her to get to know you.