devyna Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I have found the path I have religiously chosen to walk is a very misunderstood, never trusted, and always critisized way of life. Why is it that certain religions have absolutly no respect for any other religion there is. Preaching that everyone should accept Jesus Christ as their savior or they are going to burn in hell and die a heathen. However, if any other religion is to speak ill of theirs it is considered blasphome. This is not a very American way of thinking. I mean, why can't we all just get along? What is wrong with having a nice non-complicated conversation without trying to convert each other? Any input? Link to post Share on other sites
YellowLioness Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Yeah, that kind of discussion would be great. :-) So, here goes my 2.5 cents. lol. I am religous, but not in the organized way ;-) I read docterine, then follow my heart with whether I chose to accept it or not. This goes for any religions that I've studied: Wicca, Catholicism, Baptist, Methodist, Buddhism, Hinduism, Muslim... So, I sort of combined all that into a world view. I don't agree with all of it, only the parts that make sense to me. Like reincarnation. I believe in soul recycling. I believe that all life is sacred. I pray to God and take comfort in him. I believe that God is everything. I believe in angles and demons. I believe in magic... (ignore the fact that these are cheesy song lyrics ;-)) I believe that everyone has a gift, and that its up to them about whether they choose to accept it or no. I do not believe that God is a man or a woman. I think he is more of an "it" and more of an "everything" then any type of seperate being. Therefore, I don't believe in the Christian sense of God, or the Wiccan God and Goddess. I believe that science just verifies the existance of God. I think we all have a life-map, and that we can choose about what we follow and don't follow on it... our conscience lets us know when we stray too far off course. I'm "sensitive" so I believe in ghosts, angels and demons. I think the first is a matter of stuck souls and unresolved karma; the latter two being expressions of some type of other worldly energy that I have yet to understand fully. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Originally posted by devyna I have found the path I have religiously chosen to walk is a very misunderstood, never trusted, and always critisized way of life. I'm happy for you. That seems to be a growing religious practice. Why is it that certain religions have absolutly no respect for any other religion there is. Preaching that everyone should accept Jesus Christ as their savior or they are going to burn in hell and die a heathen. According to most sects of the Christian belief, people WILL go to hell if they don't accept Jesus. That is not disrespect in other religions, it is a firm belief that the other religions are wrong and against the Christian God. It is believing that those people who do not believe in Jesus will probably go to hell, but can be saved if they are educated about the Christian God & Jesus and choose to believe in them. Some religions preach/teach that anyone outside of their faith is an infidel and must be destroyed. All religions have a focus and tenets to be followed. However, if any other religion is to speak ill of theirs it is considered blasphome. This is not a very American way of thinking. I mean, why can't we all just get along? What is wrong with having a nice non-complicated conversation without trying to convert each other? Being an American has nothing to do with religion. I could write reams about this, but I'm too tired to type that much! People have been asking "why can't we all just get along?" since the beginning of time! No religion is going solve this. Even Christians can't agree on what makes a good Christian and on what their God meant when He said..... Link to post Share on other sites
Fayebelle Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Yellow and I have very similar beliefs shich we have discussed on other threads so I'm going to let her words speak for me w/2 additions... 1- I believe in a Higher Power which I encompass w/the term God b/c he/she/they have never given me another name. 2- I believe in Jesus Christ the man and try to follow his teachings of love- that thru love and compassion of each other and God we will find eternal life I do not have a set religion but I have faith, morals and beliefs. I am willing to share my thoughts but I won't judge anyone based on my own moral code. Judge not lest ye be judged- it is not my decision who if anyone will perish in Hell or live on once their human form has died Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Wiccan = designer religion? nah ... I think it just strips bare spirituality until there's nothing left but self and creator, and nature, too. I think probably the reason why it gets such a bad rap is because people relate wiccan to being pagan to being satanic, and that's not so. At least according to my one Wiccan girlfriend. I often wonder if Wiccan isn't more akin to the type of belief that Native Americans have ... My cousin got caught up in that Wiccan stuff and, believe me, it's no cakewalk. They take that stuff seriously and once you get in, it's real hard to get out. Once you get baptized, they consider you a member for life Rod, sounds like you're referring to Catholicism! We pretty much have a formula that mixes Scripture with Tradition and tradition, ending up with many many rules and regulations, all compounded by the belief that once we "get" you, we'll always have you, even if you go off and practice some other faith tradition. I've heard many stories of seriously lapsed Catholics on their deathbeds who claim their Catholic roots because it's such powerful stuff. I'm pretty content and happy being Catholic, because for someone who is pretty much a traditionalist and conservative (though not a card-carrying Republican!), it suits me fine. I like knowing where my boundaries are, I like knowing that the Church is universal, and I especially like that I can find Mass in any town where there's a Catholic church. I like how we believe that Christ is still with us in the Eucharist and recently, I've come to appreciate just how incredibly hopeful the Catholic take is on death – it's just another thing on the checklist before getting that eternal reward. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Quank, you make such an eloquent argument for Catholicism! I've learned so much more about it from you, then from anyone else--and the way you speak about it makes what others HAVE told me, make more sense. It seems much less 'fearsome' a faith than I was taught growing up. The way you described wiccan is the way I have viewed it--I just wasn't clear on my own views until I read how you put it. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 ah hokey, flattery will get you EVERYWHERE! I dunno, I think sometimes we Catholics try to intellectualize our faith instead of just letting go and just sharing our experiences, as if spouting the Baltimore catechism suddenly creates good little Catholics. Mostly, I've noticed that our faith is something that needs to be lived, and I only have come to that conclusion because of working for a Catholic newspaper. To me, it makes more sense seeing people witness their faith by trying to be Christ's hands than being a spiritual egg-head! I really wasn't familiar with Wiccan until this particular girfriend and I had a very frank, open dialogue about what her faith entails, and how it was more of a "back-to-nature" kind of belief in a Creator. It made it less of a foreign or curious belief system ... Link to post Share on other sites
Debster Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I have never even heard of Wiccan. Is it a new religion or a religion focused in one area? Link to post Share on other sites
tiki Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I have never heard of Wiccan OR Agnostic until I came to this website. It's opened up my brain *a little* and I've learned some here and there (but not a lot). I've only heard the Agnostic term being used ONCE here where I'm from. We have atheists, but I had never heard of Agnostic. The one time I heard it being used, it was being poked fun at. Everyone has their own beliefs though. Anyway, I'm a chrisitan and go to church every Sunday. I've been faithful since a small child and was baptized some 13 years ago. I won't tell you which denomination I am, but I will tell you that I attend an inter-denominational church. We have all walks of life, a LOT of religions, and it works rather well. We were voted best church in our rather large city. We are one of a kind. I will say that I've been forewarned about questioning beliefs, that once you get into it, it's hard to break free, like it brainwashes you. So I don't question my faith. I get my knowledge from the Bible and sermons. I live my life by my heart and knowledge. I don't live a perfect life and have never claimed to. I have my FULL lists of wrong-doings and flub-ups. I don't KNOW that I'm going to heaven but I'm sure going to try everything possible to get there. It's a constant battle for me, it's hard...maybe it should come more natural. Some things do. But it's hard not to blow a gasket when you need to "turn the other cheek". I just do what I can and realize I'm not perfect. That's my story. Link to post Share on other sites
YellowLioness Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You know, Tiki, I totally agree with you. Once I had doubt for the church in my heart, it was no going back for me. For me, what started the doubt was that the arguments didn't all make sense for some reason. I could never get anyone to explain anything to me. Perhaps if I had grown up in a church that was openminded about questions, then I would still be in church today :-) Ever since that point, my faith in God has been solid, but I've been struggling to find others like me. I guess that's one good thing about organized religion: at least you have people around you who believe the same thing. Honestly, Fayebelle is one of the ONLY people I've met who actually thinks the same way I do on this stuff. (Hey, at least I'm not alone ;-)) I would LOVE to get a big bunch of people together and just talk about faith. Not religion... faith. :-) Link to post Share on other sites
YellowLioness Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Also, Debster... To find out more on Wiccans, just google it. I'm not one, so I can't tell you exactly what the faith entails... but it's mostly a pagan religion, involving the worship of the God and Goddess. There are also rituals at the solstices (around Halloween, Christmas, Easter, and I'm not sure where summer solstice falls). There are also some Wiccans who believe in spell casting using various methods... herbs, candles... whatever. But, I think that everything you send out, (meaning spells) comes back to you three fold. That means, if you do someone wrong, something three times as bad will come back on you. :-) Very karmic! There are also covens of Wiccans, although from what I understand you can also practice by yourself. That's just very basic stuff: that's all I really know if it (well enough to speak about) and I could be wrong on some things. *shrugs and grins* Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Agnosticism is not a religion and is more closely associated with atheism--the belief that there is no God. Whereas a true atheist is anti-religion, an agnostic is a non-believer. I do not believe in creation. I do not believe in any of the Gods or organized religions. I don't know how humans, or any other life form, came to be. I don't believe that anyone knows. I think that Darwin's theory in Origin of the Species is probably the closest we have to the actual facts. I can see and prove evolution. Life evolves every day and every year and every generation, in a million different ways. Life is ever evolving. Put it on a scale of billions of years, and really understand how loooooooong a billion years IS, evolution makes sense to me. But to go back even further than the development of life on the planet, and society and human thought, we have to talk about the beginnings of the planet itself. I'm not sure about the Big Bang theory--much of it makes sense, but there are a lot of holes in it too (no pun intended). I could be more sure if I research it more--I admittedly do not know much about the various theories. It's not that important to me. I was raised in a succession of Christian-based churches. Baptist, Protestant, Methodist, Church of Christ, Lutheran, etc. I went to Sunday school. I was a member of the Campus Life Youth Christian club in High School. My mother is a baptist. My husband considers himself a Christian---most closely associated with Church of Christ, but he's not fond of organized religion. Too many human agendas get mixed up with God's message is what he thinks, so he worships in his own way and goes to different churches when he feels he should, and interprets the Bible himself because he feels that God speaks to him. I don't believe in life after death. This is it. I think that there might be some kind of energy signature left behind when our bodies cease. The energy contains "personality" traits of the individual--something unique like a fingerprint. It might last for years, or disappear right away like a wisp of fog. It might not exist at all. I think there is a ton of things about the function of the human brain that we do not understand, and I think that is where things like ghosts and second-sight, and premonitions, etc. come from. Not from outside us, but from within. I don't believe that God created man. I believe that Man created God. Some people think that Agnostics are merely people who are searching for something to believe in and have not found their way to God. I was searching for a long time. I searched until I found my answer. The same way a person finds God or Jesus, and accepts them as their answer, I found my answer in evolution. I don't need anything further and I am no longer searching. I am open-minded enough to realize that I may be totally wrong and that there is a God, or many Gods, who created us. I just don't believe it. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Originally posted by tikibrandy I will say that I've been forewarned about questioning beliefs, that once you get into it, it's hard to break free, like it brainwashes you. That's interesting that you put it that way. I've never looked at it in that context before. That is how I've looked at churches/organized religions. Indoctrination/brainwashing. I'm too tired to think about it, but I'll have to ponder the social and instinctual aspects of the human species that would cause two totally opposite beliefs to approach the other in the same way. I'm sure I've read some philosophy and sociology on this. See, 'ya come to LS and get all kinds of opinions and different points of view! No matter how many times a topic has been discussed---there is always something new to be discovered. I love learning new ways to look at things Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I'm happy being Catholic, and I'm happy with everyone else being whatever they'd like to be. I think God would be pretty naive to package himself up only one way, with all the anthropological, cultural, and personal differences of his people. My experience with Wicca specifically isn't so great, it was popular among girls at my (catholic) school who wanted attention. If it works for you, great, I think it worked for Jimmy Page. Link to post Share on other sites
Olivia_19742004 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Buddhist Link to post Share on other sites
YellowLioness Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You know ,that girl in your picture looks just like a girl I went to highschool with. :-) Dark hair, same smile.. yeah, strange. Anyway, I agree. Like... When I was younger we were taught that literally everyone outside of our church was going to H&ll. That was one of my initial quesitons that got me in trouble: How do people who don't KNOW about our religion go to H&ll? What about if they already have another God? Why is their God wrong and our God right? lol. Anyway, these are the questions that got me in some trouble. *shrugs* Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Originally posted by YellowLioness You know ,that girl in your picture looks just like a girl I went to highschool with. :-) Dark hair, same smile.. yeah, strange. The one on the left's a boy The girl is Lori Maddox, she was famous at one time I believe. Maybe she wasn't. Anyway, I agree. Like... When I was younger we were taught that literally everyone outside of our church was going to H&ll. It's funny, I was never taught that--I've been told by others that *I'm* going to hell, but I don't see what an institution would gain intellectually by telling you that everyone *else* is going to hell. It seems like such a lousy selling point, "Yeah, I'm here at church because some guy told me I'd burn forever if I don't" Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I don't see what an institution would gain intellectually by telling you that everyone *else* is going to hell intellectually, nothing, but it makes for some pretty good bragging rights! as a believer, I have a very hard time reconciling the fact that God would willingly turn his back on one of his kids just because he or she wasn't from a Baptist/Catholic/Church of Christ/fill in the blank Christian faith background. The way I see Christianity is that Jesus died for everyone throughout all of history; no one was left out. Now, HOW we express that relationship with God -- whether as Christian, Jew, Muslim, other -- or NOT express it, is up to us, and whatever we choose is okay because we're all still covered under the "salvation clause." Sorta like the saying goes, "that's okay if you don't believe in God. He still believes in you." He's offering everything in good faith. Link to post Share on other sites
Author devyna Posted July 31, 2004 Author Share Posted July 31, 2004 As to the question about Wicca being a new religion...yes it is, but it is closely based on Paganism. Paganism, however, was one of the cornerstones to Christianity. If you really want to study the subject or know more, YL is completely right about Google. I think it's funny that so many people have so much information at their fingertips, yet don't use it. Such is life... Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 I didn't know it was a 'cornerstone' of Christianity. I thought all Pagan aspects of Christianity were simply thrown in there to steer Pagans away from Paganism. I will be googling obsessively tonight. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 devyna Paganism, however, was one of the cornerstones to Christianity.I have a hard time believe this considering the two biggest influences. 1. Jesus 2. The Old Testament How is Paganism a cornerstone to Christianity? Link to post Share on other sites
shortbus74 Posted August 1, 2004 Share Posted August 1, 2004 Jewish Link to post Share on other sites
lioness Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I'm Wiccan I'm not one, so I can't tell you exactly what the faith entails... but it's mostly a pagan religion, involving the worship of the God and Goddess. There are also rituals at the solstices (around Halloween, Christmas, Easter, and I'm not sure where summer solstice falls). There are also some Wiccans who believe in spell casting using various methods... herbs, candles... whatever. But, I think that everything you send out, (meaning spells) comes back to you three fold. That means, if you do someone wrong, something three times as bad will come back on you. :-) Very karmic! YL - for not being sure about it, you did a great job explaining a lot in a short little paragraph. Link to post Share on other sites
aFighter Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by BlockHead I have a hard time believe this considering the two biggest influences. 1. Jesus 2. The Old Testament How is Paganism a cornerstone to Christianity? A few of the christian holidays were originally pagan feasts. Easter: Is the name of a pagan goddess of springtime and fertility. The church adopted this into their own to 'draw in the crowd'. The same for Halloween. Originally this Druid Holiday was called "The Vigil Of Saman." In early Britain it was called Samhain, which is pronounced So-wein. But, here is how we got the name Halloween. It came from an attempt to "Christianize" this pagan worship day. In A.D. 800 the Roman Catholic Church moved "All Saints Day" from May to November 1st. The new day was called All Hallow's Day and it soon became the custom to call the evening before All Hallow'een. It was shortened and called Halloween. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 aFighter A few of the christian holidays were originally pagan feasts.What you described were a few political maneuvers. Those changes in no way alter the message or the teachings. To call something a cornerstone implies a major fundamental influence. Holidays are aesthetic. Link to post Share on other sites
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