Wiccan and proud to be...what is your religion?

[shamen]

Originally posted by Moose

All that you described in Catholicism. Not Christianity......The reason you see an image of Christ on the cross in a Catholic Church is because they do not believe that Christ rose from the dead and appeared to His disciples. Thus, all you see in a Christian Churches are crosses.

 

Christianity, again, is the belief that Christ Died, paid for our sins, and rose from the dead. Rose from the dead is what seperates Catholics from Christians.

 

Moose,

 

No offense, but you've got the belief system wrong. Catholics DO believe that Christ rose from the dead and appeared to his disciplines. If you go back and reread quankanne's post, you'll see that these days some of the Catholic churches are putting up imagines of the risen Christ instead of him on the cross. They celebrate Easter just like many other Christians do. Yes, Catholics are Christian.

 

I was brought up Roman Catholic and left the church for the very belief that some people have that all non Christians (non Catholics, at my church) were going to hell. I realize that some people do not have this belief anymore, but I still don't think that I could return to the church because I disagree now with some of the main belief systems. I however do not condemn anyone for their beliefs. Each to his own.

 

Dyer,

 

You are correct in that my random belief system (deist: now that I realize that there's kind of a name for it) does sometimes lend itself to a lack of community. I've definitely contemplated this a lot as I've gotten older. It would be nice to talk with other like minded folks about my beliefs, but I get to do that a bit here, even if we don't all agree on our beliefs. The discussion is what I appreciate.

 

Someone once told me that I might be comfortable in a Unitarian church. Any thoughts on this anyone? I don't know much about it. I should just do a search on it and see what comes of it...

 

Yellowlioness,

 

Dogma is a great film. It's been several years since I have seen it. But as someone who grew up Catholic, when I saw it, I swear you could only really get it if you grew up that way. Now I've got to rewatch it! I have it. I would imagine that most Catholics would find the film disconcerting, but I don't know.

 

I probably wouldn't mind something organized if I could find somewhere where I fit, ya know?

[YellowLioness]

Moose, we'd make a great team!

 

We should write down everything we think into a book, then give it to people to LOOK at and study, not to follow.

 

Then, they could make their own decisions, and that would truly make them part of our "religion."

 

[YellowLioness]

Dogma is a great film. It's been several years since I have seen it. But as someone who grew up Catholic, when I saw it, I swear you could only really get it if you grew up that way. Now I've got to rewatch it! I have it. I would imagine that most Catholics would find the film disconcerting, but I don't know.

 

I probably wouldn't mind something organized if I could find somewhere where I fit, ya know?

 

I don't know how many times I've thought that. Moose and I have actually talked about fitting in to religion.

 

I just get frustrated that I don't fit in. I'm jealous of people who can so easily be like, "Oh, I'm Catholic," or, "Oh, I'm Muslim."

 

When people ask me, I'm all like, "Eh, it's too complicated."

 

Most people where I live think I'm going to H$ll anyway.

 

I hope that Madonna saves me a seat when she goes; right beside her and Jim Morrison!

[Moose]

YellowLioness,

 

Sounds good to me!!!!

 

Shamen,

 

Thanks for the clarification. That just confirms why I don't like to claim I belong in a, "sect". It just seems to me that the rules, or beiliefs seem to change an awfull lot. Take the Amish, I can remember when cars were severley taboo to them, and now they drive all the time.......that's just one example. I'm sure there are many, many more.

[Moose]

That's a good question:

 

What would you call someone who believes in God, Son, Holy ghost, death, raised from the dead, accepted Christ as their Saviour and on and on, but does not neccessarily consider themselves tied down to a particular denomination? Is there such a group?

[shamen]

Yellowlioness:

 

Now that I know what I deist is, I think that now I'm just going to say that instead when people ask, instead of agnostic. It's so cool that I learned that here!!! I'm probably going to have to wait a while longer to figure out where I fit, though...

 

Moose:

 

Anytime on the clarification. In regards to a name for it: how about a Christian inspired Deist?

 

PS... Go back to Wideawake's post on the definition of deism... page 3.

[InmannRoshi]

Someone once told me that I might be comfortable in a Unitarian church. Any thoughts on this anyone?

 

I have a friend who goes to Unitarian Church, and he invited me. What it lacked in "preachy", it made up for in "new agey". Lots of hugs being handed out. Lots.

 

As far as atheists not having a community, there are many atheist groups that get together will be under the name Freethinkers. I belong to a group that brings in lecturers, has happy hours at a local bar every Thursday (if you're doomed to burn in "eat-urh-nahl daYAHMNation", better get a stiff drink), has a book club to discuss philosophers. We sponser a local atheist radio show ...http://www.atheistnetwork.com. We coordiante events and activites (for example: we coordinate attendance on school board meetings in regards to issues of evolution and science to make sure there is an alternative voice to the fundies who want to dictate that our textbooks).

 

Check the internet and see if there isn't a similar group in your area.

 

http://www.atheist-community.org/

[wideawake]

Originally posted by shamen

In regards to a name for it: how about a Christian inspired Deist?

 

 

Thomas Jefferson just rolled over....

[BlockHead]

Moose

All that you described in Catholicism. Not Christianity......The reason you see an image of Christ on the cross in a Catholic Church is because they do not believe that Christ rose from the dead and appeared to His disciples. Thus, all you see in a Christian Churches are crosses.

This isn’t true.

The belief that Jesus rose from the dead is repeated in the Nicene Creed during each Mass.

 

I am pretty sure the Catholic Church is the only church that has a tradition of commemorating Christ’s suffering. Are you familiar with Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ?

[Moose]

I'm familiar with the film, I haven't gone and seen it yet. About Christ's suffering though.....what do you think or feel about this:

 

When Christ suffered, physically, during his persecution, do you think that the sins of you and I, today, depicted the amount of suffering He had to go through in order to pay our sin debt? Afterall, God already knew the amount of TOTAL sin that has been and will be comitted on this earth.

 

I believe it did. I also believe that whenever we do sin, we just keep adding to His pain, physically and emotionally......kinda like living in two dimensions....but I've always felt this way.

[shamen]

Originally posted by InmannRoshi

I have a friend who goes to Unitarian Church, and he invited me. What it lacked in "preachy", it made up for in "new agey". Lots of hugs being handed out. Lots.

 

As far as atheists not having a community, there are many atheist groups that get together will be under the name Freethinkers. I belong to a group that brings in lecturers, has happy hours at a local bar every Thursday (if you're doomed to burn in "eat-urh-nahl daYAHMNation", better get a stiff drink), has a book club to discuss philosophers. We sponser a local atheist radio show ...http://www.atheistnetwork.com. We coordiante events and activites (for example: we coordinate attendance on school board meetings in regards to issues of evolution and science to make sure there is an alternative voice to the fundies who want to dictate that our textbooks).

 

Check the internet and see if there isn't a similar group in your area.

 

http://www.atheist-community.org/

 

Thank you for the suggestion, but I really don't consider myself an atheist anymore. I mean, I do believe all sorts of stuff (see page 3). Too new agey, huh? Bummer.

 

I'm glad that you guys are out there checking up on our textbooks! Someone needs to.

 

Wideawake:

 

Why would Thomas Jefferson roll over? Sorry, but I'm at a loss here...

 

Blockhead:

 

I thought that Mel Gibson was something else besides Catholic?

[wideawake]

Originally posted by shamen

Why would Thomas Jefferson roll over? Sorry, but I'm at a loss here...

 

Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin are perhaps the most well-known of the American founding Deists. Though I guess you could throw Thomas Paine in with that mix as well. My comment was in regard to the term "Christian inspired Deist" which is a bit contradictory at best, and I couldn't help buy imagine TJ freaking out a little bit on it...

 

If you think of Deism as being founded on the belief that the universe was created by a God who then made no further intervention in its affairs, than the whole aspect of Christianity, and of God sending his Son back to earth for whatever...just doesn't hold up. (FYI - I'm speaking from a position of a Deist, and I'm NOT looking to start discussing the validity of my statement.) So I was just busting balls about the whole christian/deist thang....

[shamen]

Wideawake:

 

The Christian inspired Deist thing was more of a joke really. I was playing as he was looking for a term to call himself. Hence, the wink.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[wideawake]

Originally posted by shamen

Wideawake:

 

The Christian inspired Deist thing was more of a joke really. I was playing as he was looking for a term to call himself. Hence, the wink.

 

 

Yeah, actually I know. I was just goofing as well.

 

Peace

[BlockHead]

shamen

I thought that Mel Gibson was something else besides Catholic?

He is. http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/M/Mel-Gibson.htm

He even sent a DVD of The Passion of the Christ to the Vatican for the pope to watch before it hit the theatres.

[shamen]

Wideawake:

 

You are awesome! I'm a little slow sometimes when it comes to the printed word. Drat that internet!

 

Blockhead:

 

Ah, Mel is a Traditional Catholic. Not a Roman Catholic. It explains the perspective of the film as well, if you are interested in seeing it. The pope is a Roman Catholic; he does not subscribe to the Traditional Catholic's views.

 

Moose:

 

Check out Blockhead's link and hit Traditional Catholic. I learned something new today as well. There are several groups of Catholics as well! I used to think that there were just (Roman) Catholics.

[quankanne]

Things are all cool until around 1520 or so when Martin Luther has a hissy fit and decides to throw down with the Pope. This is the birth of all Protestant religions

 

I see the term "hissy fit," then look at your icon, and bust up laughing .... nicely put, WA, nicely put.

 

Moose, I think what you asked (i.e. "what do you call someone who believes in Christ but isn't part of a community?") can be answered as "that person is a Christian" because he professes Christ by mouth, by mind, by soul, and choses to follow His path. My opinion, anyway! A community of believers pretty much helps support one in his faith perspective, is the way I understand it ....

 

Catholic versus Protestant ... but still all follow Christ: A lot of people (including my beloved heathen husband) get that wrong. Both groups are Christian, but the distinction is that Protestants split away (when Luther had his hissy fit, no less!) in disagreement of Church teachings. Well, actually, more because they found the hierarchy of the church to be corrupt than the Church's actual teachings. It was much easier to break away than continue to embrace a Church "gone bad" because of the wicked men who led it ... I've heard many priests conjecture that had Luther challenged the powers that be so that the Church could be cleaned up, it would have been equally as powerful as his decision to split off ....

 

The traditional distinctions are Christian (includes Prots and Caths) and non-Christian (Judaism, Muslim beliefs, and the many other faith practices). As Shamen points out, even Catholicism has its own little "segments."

 

Most Catholics in the U.S. are members of the Roman Catholic Church (Latin rite as opposed to Eastern rite) and follow Second Vatican Council teachings (which, among other things, allowed Mass to be celebrated in the vernacular). There are some who acknowlege Vatican II but prefer the traditional Latin Mass (when Mass is celebrated in Latin, save for the sermon), and then there are those -- like Mel Gibson -- who claim Vatican II was wrong wrong wrong because it pretty much went against "traditional" Church teachings. The last "real" pope, in their way of thinking, was the one before the guy who endorsed Vatican II!

 

So yeah, it gets kind of confusing when you factor in these and OTHER expressions of Catholicism in the Church, but the bottom line, though, is that each and every flavor of Catholicism is based in belief of the Trinity.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Moose

The reason you see an image of Christ on the cross in a Catholic Church is because they do not believe that Christ rose from the dead and appeared to His disciples.

This is most definitely false.

Christianity, again, is the belief that Christ Died, paid for our sins, and rose from the dead. Rose from the dead is what seperates Catholics from Christians.

Again, not to be rude, but this is false. Catholics most definitely believe in the ressurection.

The following is said at every Catholic mass:

We believe in one God,

the Father, the Almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all that is, seen and unseen.

 

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

the only Son of God,

eternally begotten of the Father,

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made,

of one Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation

he came down from heaven:

by the power of the Holy Spirit

he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,

and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;

he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again

in accordance with the Scriptures;

he ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,

and his kingdom will have no end.

 

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.

He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,

and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

We believe in one God,

the Father, the Almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all that is, seen and unseen.

 

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

the only Son of God,

eternally begotten of the Father,

God from God, Light from Light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made,

of one Being with the Father.

Through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation

he came down from heaven:

by the power of the Holy Spirit

he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,

and was made man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;

he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again

in accordance with the Scriptures;

he ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,

and his kingdom will have no end.

 

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.

He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,

and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

It's a good summary of what Catholics believe. Please note that when we say "one holy catholic and apostolic church" we mean one universal church, regardless of what you call yourselves. The word 'catholic' means universal.

 

A protestant church is a church that broke off from the Catholics.

 

But hey, I could be wrong too, I have always been told that this is the way it is.

Sadly, you're not alone. You'd be amazed at the amount of protestants who are certain Catholics aren't Christians.

 

Dyer, have YOU seen Dogma? What do you think?

I think I should rent it.

[BlockHead]

dyermaker

Check my post

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=286958#post286958

[dyermaker]

We agree then, except about Gibson.

 

 

And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.