Wiccan and proud to be...what is your religion?

[Kloges123]

I dont want to start a argument with that post. I wrote kind of fast. I think that christians stole are sabbaths to convert people to christanity. Hey I hold the highist respect for everyone ,but I sometimes dont have respect for youre choices.

This is just me I am Irish so you assume I love saint pattys. well I really dont he converted all the irsh pagens to cristians. I still celebrate it but not in that way. just because I am Irish And darn proud of it. This is kind of funny but intill a amonth ago I didnt know who mother teresa is and is she a sait or on her way to be one? can any one please awnser that for me I aM CURIES.

I believe that Jesus existed but not that he was the son of god just a great person.

About my reliogen yes we do believe in a mother goddess and father god aka triple goddesse horned god. We do rituals and spells with herbs candles and wordes and we have the rule "If it ham none do as ye will." basically do what you want as long as it harms none . So how can we be satan worshippers (this is just one thing I have called) if satan is for death but, we are not aloud to do harm. We also have the 8 sabbaths imblic winter and summer silstes all halloweve and others

About all hallows eve it is when the cloth between the living and dead is at its thinist so that is when you see spirits and when you would try to communicate with dead loved ones

this is alot but I had a lot to say so as the celtics say for goodbye Slan leat

Kloges

PS sorry if my spelling isnt the best only 13

[wideawake]

Originally posted by BlockHead

I find this interesting. Do you think people in Palestine, during the time of Jesus, knew about the Feast of Eostre?

 

You can also argue that the Aztecs inspired human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism known as Communion.

 

Don’t confuse correlation with causation.

 

Well, to begin with the people in Palestine absolutely could have known about Eostre. Roman soldiers coming back from Britain could have easily spread the word about this faith.

 

But to be honest, who cares if the people in Palestine either knew about Eostre or not. As they sure as heck didn't have anything to do with the New Testament and the myth of the resurection anyway.

 

The New Testament is created following the Epistle of Athanasius in 367 C.E., when the Church finally reached agreement upon which writings were truly authentic and representative of apostolic tradition, thus forming what we know today as the canonical New Testament.

 

Prior to this the gospels of "Matthew," "Mark," "Luke" and "John." were communicated via oral traditions by groups of early Christians that maintained their own oral traditions of Jesus's wisdom.

 

These independent groups would supplement the oral histories with their own traditions about the savior, each believing their own versions to be "the Gospel." Eventually, as these expanded stories spread through other communities, some versions were viewed as having more authority than others.

 

For the next two centuries, the four gospels would be coupled with a myriad of different letters, epistles, stories and apocalypses, according to what a particular congregation judged as relevant to their understanding of Jesus Christ and his message.

 

After three and a half centuries, it's absolutely possible that any number of other mythos' could have been incorporated into the NT to further the churches political goals.

 

Don't confuse the hype with history bro.

[BlockHead]

wideawake

Well, to begin with the people in Palestine absolutely could have known about Eostre. Roman soldiers coming back from Britain could have easily spread the word about this faith.

The Romans had their own gods. Why would they adopt, or spread word about this one?

wideawake

The New Testament is created following the Epistle of Athanasius in 367 C.E., when the Church finally reached agreement upon which writings were truly authentic and representative of apostolic tradition, thus forming what we know today as the canonical New Testament.

 

Prior to this the gospels of "Matthew," "Mark," "Luke" and "John." were communicated via oral traditions by groups of early Christians that maintained their own oral traditions of Jesus's wisdom.

The oral tradition was anywhere from 30-100 years, and there were other written sources which are lost.

We still have Paul’s letters (he was literate) that were preserved by the churches in Galatia, Corinth, etc.

Get your facts straight next time.

The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to The Early Christian Writings by Bart D. Ehrman

p8

The New Testament contains twenty-seven books, written in Greek, by fifteen or sixteen different authors, who were addressing other Christian individuals or communities between the years 50 and 120 C.E. [AD] (see box 1.4). As we will see, it is difficult to know whether any of these books was written by Jesus’ own disciples.

 

p11

Contrary to what one might expect, it was not until the year 367 C.E. [AD], almost two and a half centuries after the last New Testament book was written, that any Christian or record named our current twenty-seven books as the authoritative canon of Scripture. The author of this list was Athanasius, the powerful bishop of Alexandria, Egypt. Some scholars believe that this pronouncement on his part, and his accompanying proscription of heretical books, led monks of a nearby monastery to hide the Gnostic writings discovered 1,600 years later by the Bedouin near Nag Hammadi, Egypt.

[morrigan]

Norse mythology has its own story of resurrection--after the pre-destined destruction of the old world (Ragnarok), the god of light and the spring season, Baldur, was to be resurrected and be chief deity in the new pantheon. I personally believe in Jesus's resurrection, but I think many religions share the same common tale of armageddons and rebirths.

 

Romans adopted the Greek gods, although the cult of Mithras was very popular with soldiers in the 2nd-3rd centuries, no doubt after many of these men had served in Turkey and Syria. Undoubtedly some Roman soldiers who served in Gaul (France) or Roman Britain adopted ideas from the Druids.

 

Religions are organizations maintained by humans --all of them have incorporated ideas from other religions, or are political at times.

[devyna]

I went to that fabled 'Google' and did a search for Origin of Christianity among the many websites I found, I found this one to be of great interest. Read it if you feel you wish to know, don't if you refuse to believe anything other than what you 'feel' is right.

 

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

 

Moderator's Note: the above is not a commercial site and therefore the link itself does not violate LoveShack.org's policy. However, it is most certainly not affiliated with an accredited academic institution or peer-reviewed publication, nor does it provide any empirical data. Please read our guidelines, in particular regarding external links: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/guidelines/#external. .

 

Personally, I know that it doesn't matter how much proof I bring to the table on this, you will always denounce what I have to offer. Why? Because a very gifted few individuals wrote a book...however they wrote this book in tongues. Tongues in which they could not even understand, the language of the Gods. A few Holy men transcribed these writings into what we now call the Bible. If those who wrote the words couldn't understand them, how could the Holy men transcribe them? How do WE know these words are the words of God, and not just what those Holy men wanted us to believe?

[Moose]

devyna,

 

You know, I think you got some crazy site......the bible wasn't written in tongues and translated.....sorry, that's simply not true.

 

It's not easy to put this into words, but when I accepted Christ into my heart, something supernatural happened to me that day. It was a physical feeling.....not imaginary, not like a dream, it was very real.....that's why I'm so convicted to my faith. I know something happened.

 

All true Christians will tell you the same thing. It was a very real feeling. You don't just ask Him into your heart and poof you're saved......it's a commitment, and when you mean it, that's when you'll FEEL Him, and that's when you're whole way of life and thinking totally changes.

 

This is how I KNOW I'm on the right path. I can't speak for you or anyone else, but that's what truly happened.

[BlockHead]

devyna

Now that is one wacky website.

Some of the sources are very old so I question how reliable they are.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/footnote.htm#foot17

(17)

"The entire 'Pauline group' is the same forged class . . . says E.B. [Encyclopedia Biblica] . . .'With respect to the canonical Pauline Epistles, . . .. there are none of them by Paul; neither fourteen, nor thirteen, nor nine or eight, nor yet even the four so long "universally" regarded as unassailable. They are all, without distinction, pseudographia (false-writings, forgeries). . . ' They are thus all uninspired anonymous church forgeries for Christ's sweet sake!" (Wheless)

One man’s opinion is presented as fact.

I am not sure if this is taken out of context.

devyna

Because a very gifted few individuals wrote a book...however they wrote this book in tongues. Tongues in which they could not even understand, the language of the Gods. A few Holy men transcribed these writings into what we now call the Bible.

This isn’t true.

 

Here is Paul’s opinion on speaking in tongues.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1COR+14&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on

1 Cor 14:18-19

18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

My book The New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman uses more up-to-date sources so I think it is more reliable.

devyna

How do WE know these words are the words of God, and not just what those Holy men wanted us to believe?

Obviously God didn’t write those books.

[devyna]

NM, like I said

[devyna]

I know that it doesn't matter how much proof I bring to the table on this, you will always denounce what I have to offer.

 

It also doesn't matter what I nor any other person believes in. All that matters is that what you believe in is what makes you feel the faith. If you get a spiritual oneness from believing in Jesus Christ, then that's great for you!! I have never gotten anything but grief from the man, so I choose not to follow his teachings. Yes, I have given him a chance with full faith in him. I got a great big gobbly goop of nothing. So no, not everyone that tries with all they have can have the same experience. I get Spiritual oneness from having Faith in our Mother Earth. My Lady Freya and my Lord Odin, that is where I get my strength.

 

~Blessed Be~

Harm none, do what ye will.

[Lupo]

Its not something that can be changed, when your dealing with the creation of everything there are going to be conflicting ideas.

 

I just try to live my life without regrets and if there is a judging deity i'll go where I belong.

 

Anyway devyna if you follow the threefold law wouldn't a sledgehammer be painful?

(just kidding)

 

-Lupo

[RowanRavyn]

*posted wrong bit

[kirkyswife]

I've read a bit about Wiccan's - interesting.

 

I'm not religious - I am spiritual. I believe in God - that God is the final judge and that by being a good person and sending positive energy out into the world that goodness shall come back to me. I believe in the ten commandments and ultimately equate that to if I don't do evil things then I am living according to God's will and I shall be blessed as a result. I believe that we all have the ability to communicate with God, and with a clear conscious we are able to hear God talking back. I believe that our spirit is our conscious and God speaks to us through our conscious. For example, whenever we have to make a decision about anything we have something called our "first voice" that quickly tells us what we should do - I think that is God speaking to us. I think where we get into trouble is when we allow that other voice to challenge what we know to be the truth. God is with us always. God knows what we are going to do before we do it - it's already been written. We all have a purpose on this planet and it's our responsibility to find that purpose and do God's will - whatever it may be.

 

I think religions were created by "man" as a method of controlling minds and behavior. People use religion as a shield to hide behind when judging others or justifying wrongful acts. Religions typically contain rules and ideologies that make life more complicated - it's the unattainable - the human belief of what is perfect. They say we were made in the likeness of God and so religions tend to identify God with certain races and personalities. I do not think God is as "uptight" as many religions profess that God to be. I walk in God's light and try with every day to be a better person than I was the day before. When I hurt someone, I ask their forgiveness and most importantly God's. God is forgiving and loving and I do not believe "religions" express God's will in it's purest form.

[quankanne]

For the young 'un out there asking about Mother Teresa:

 

This is kind of funny but until a month ago I didnt know who mother teresa is and is she a saint or on her way to (becoming) one?

 

Last October, Mother Teresa – an Albanian nun who spent the bulk of her life ministering to the poor of India – was beatified (declared blessed) by Pope John Paul II a mere six years after her death.

 

I think that for many – believers and non-believers alike – M. Teresa is simply an amazing woman who took to heart the call to love others the way her Christ has. No politicking, no "look at what I'm doing," just simply loving and caring for others ...

 

And I think that JPII's thought behind putting her on the fast-track to sainthood was to give the people of today a model of holiness from contemporary times, someone who many of us have heard about in our lifetime, someone who transcended all divisions and borders with her message of love and peace , thus becoming a role model for everyone.

 

The neat thing about this (IMHO) is that a believer can see Christ using her hands to do his work ... and pretty much making Him all that more credible in a selfish, me-first world.

 

quank

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by wideawake

Go check out the definition of "Deist" or "Deism".

 

Deism is defined in Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary, 1941, as: "[From Latin Deus, God.Deity] The doctrine or creed of a Deist." And Deist is defined in the same dictionary as: "One who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason."

Deism--wasn't that Descartes?

 

I think the main thing loss by the common belief of 'faith in God, but not religion' ideology is the loss of a community of Faith to support you.

Originally posted by BlockHead

You can also argue that the Aztecs inspired human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism known as Communion.

: No Blockhead, I know of few people who could pull off that argument.

 

Originally posted by Moose

What we Christians believe is:

 

God won't allow the unclean into heaven, therefore, they will go to hell. There is only one way to, "get in" if you will. That is to be cleansed with the blood of Jesus. No other way.

Bull ****!

 

What you believe is your business, but do not credit your beliefs to nonspecific 'christianity'. I, as a Christian, find your belief destructive at best, hateful at the least. It's Christians who spread the above belief that make Christianity so unattractive to people.

 

Originally posted by devyna

Harm none, do what ye will.

Crowley?

 

Maybe not. I don't think Crowley would have said the first part. Could be wrong though--I think it was "Do What Thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law"

[Moose]

quote:Originally posted by Moose

What we Christians believe is:

 

God won't allow the unclean into heaven, therefore, they will go to hell. There is only one way to, "get in" if you will. That is to be cleansed with the blood of Jesus. No other way.

 

 

 

Bull ****!

 

What you believe is your business, but do not credit your beliefs to nonspecific 'christianity'. I, as a Christian, find your belief destructive at best, hateful at the least. It's Christians who spread the above belief that make Christianity so unattractive to people.

 

If you are the Christian you say that you are, then obviously you need re-evaluate, otherwise you would agree with what I said. Notice, the first thing that I said is, "What we Christians believe", stating what we believe, not what others believe, because as you correctly stated, "IT'S MY BUSINESS", as it is everyone else's.

 

My beliefs are Christian beliefs.....otherwise, I would be a Catholic, Buddist, Wiccan or whatever. Break up the word, "Christian", even look it up. I don't care.....it is the belief in Christ's Persecution, Death, and resurection to pay for our sins.

 

That is the essence of a Christian, and that is Christianity..........So are you really the Christian you think you are?????

[Moose]

Or Better yet......You tell me what your defintion of Christian or Christianity is.

[devyna]

Are the rules Wiccan's are to abide by.

 

Rede Of The Wiccae

 

Being known as the counsel of the Wise Ones:

 

* Bide the Wiccan Laws ye must In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.

* Live an? let live - Fairly take an? fairly give.

* Cast the Circle thrice about To keep all evil spirits out.

* To bind the spell every time - Let the spell be spake in rhyme.

* Soft of eye an? light of touch - Speak little, listen much.

* Deosil go by the waxing Moon - Sing and dance the Wiccan rune.

* Widdershins go when the Moon doth wane, An? the Werewolf howls by the dread Wolfsbane.

* When the Lady?s Moon is new, Kiss thy hand to Her times two.

* When the Moon rides at Her peak Then your heart?s desire seek.

* Heed the Northwind?s mighty gale - Lock the door and drop the sail.

* When the wind comes from the South, Love will kiss thee on the mouth.

* When the wind blows from the East, Expect the new and set the feast.

* When the West wind blows o?er thee, Departed spirits restless be.

* Nine woods in the Cauldron go - Burn them quick an? burn them slow.

* Elder be ye Lady?s tree - Burn it not or cursed ye?ll be.

* When the Wheel begins to turn - Let the Beltane fires burn.

* When the Wheel has turned a Yule, Light the Log an? let Pan rule.

* Heed ye flower bush an? tree - By the Lady Blessèd Be.

* Where the rippling waters go Cast a stone an? truth ye?ll know.

* When ye have need, Hearken not to others greed.

* With the fool no season spend Or be counted as his friend.

* Merry meet an? merry part - Bright the cheeks an? warm the heart.

* Mind the Threefold Law ye should - Three times bad an? three times good.

* When misfortune is enow, Wear the Blue Star on thy brow.

* True in love ever be Unless thy lover?s false to thee.

* Eight words ye Wiccan Rede fulfill - An? it harm none, Do what ye will.

[quankanne]

My beliefs are Christian beliefs.....otherwise, I would be a Catholic

 

um, Moose? Catholics are Christians.

 

Historically, Catholicism is the first "organized" religion formed after Jesus died, was buried and rose from the dead. Our charge came when Jesus told Simon Peter "upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18) Catholic Tradition (church teachings) tell us that Peter was our first pope commissioned by Christ, with a succession of popes following him as leader throughout these last 2000 years. Our most recent guy, Pope John Paul II -- a Pole whose given name is Karol Wotyla -- was chosen to that position a quarter century ago.

 

this is a bit simplistic, but go inside a Catholic church sometime. Above the altar you'll see a huge cross with a figure of the crucified Christ on it (some churches prefer to use crucifixes bearing a figure of the risen Christ). That symbol reminds us each and every time we see it of Jesus' sacrifice for mankind, of his great love for us and what he was willing to do for us. If you look at a rosary (prayer beads), you'll also notice there's a small crucifix attached to it – the prayers recited are all centered on Him.

 

inside the church, also look behind the altar or to the side of it for a lit candle. Near that candle you'll see a box, something we call a "tabernacle." Inside is the Eucharist, which Catholics believe is Christ present in the form of a sacrament. The lit candle signifies that Christ -- through the Eucharist -- is present. that's why you'll see a lot of genuflecting (going down on one knee) when people enter and exit the church, as well as people blessing themselves before the Eucharist.

 

if you ever get to attend Mass at a Catholic church, you'll see that it's broken down into two parts: the liturgy of the Word and liturgy of the Eucharist. The first part -- liturgy of the Word -- entails the reading of Gospel passages, a homily/sermon and a renewed pledge in our belief in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. The second part of the Mass (what a lot of Catholics consider the highlight) centers around the consecration of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ, which is technically called "transubstantiation." This consecration takes place at every Mass celebrated in every church around the world, it is a constant. The neat part about it is that it doesn't just stop there: people are invited to "come to the table" to receive the Eucharist, bringing us into communion with Christ and the community of believers known as the body of Christ. (Interestingly enough, the Mass was once known as the "sacrifice of the Mass" in reference to Christ's sacrifice.)

 

I realize that this is probably more of a catechism that you expected to share, but my hope is that other Christians -- even though they don't agree with Catholicism -- understand that Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit are at the center of our beliefs, too.

 

I'd like to take a stab at your challenge to Dyer about what a "Christian" is, if that's okay. Being Christian means embracing the two things Jesus asks us to: love God and love one another. And when you do that, all the rest falls into place!

 

I think that's maybe why some of us younger Catholics feel funny or react strongly when we're told "so and so is going straight to hell because he doesn't know Christ/believe the way we do." (Catholics are just as guilty of this prejudicial behavior, of believing that we're the only ones who merit God's grace because we are what we consider the "one, true church")

 

yes, there are people who willingly turn their backs on him, and there are people who genuinely don't know about him, but that doesn't mean God wants to be separated from them, or them from him. Think of the parable of the Good Shepherd or the prodigal son – stories which tell us that long as there is hope, there is a way to God, and no one gets left out. As Christians, we believe that Jesus is the ultimate way of hope.

[Moose]

All that you described in Catholicism. Not Christianity......The reason you see an image of Christ on the cross in a Catholic Church is because they do not believe that Christ rose from the dead and appeared to His disciples. Thus, all you see in a Christian Churches are crosses.

 

Christianity, again, is the belief that Christ Died, paid for our sins, and rose from the dead. Rose from the dead is what seperates Catholics from Christians.

 

I'm by no means saying that Catholicism isn't the correct belief, I'm just trying to show you what seperates the two. What I believe and what you believe is fine, but I think it's important that the definition of Christians is far different than that of Catholics. Thus you have "Catholicism" and "Christianity"

 

But hey, I could be wrong too, I have always been told that this is the way it is.

[Moose]

I just looked up a Catholic website and apparently Catholics do consider themselves to be Christians. However, I still think there is a huge difference in what we believe.

 

I stand corrected, you were right to say what you said. I love to learn new things......

 

So, how would we differenciate the two, would I be considered Baptist, and you Catholic but we are still Christians????

 

Ever learning and always quick to admit he's wrong.......Moose

[wideawake]

Originally posted by dyermaker

Deism--wasn't that Descartes?

 

Ya know, I was going to say "Yup, sure was" but than I thought I should go double check and it turns out that most of the writtings on Deism are by Edward Herbert ("De veritate" (1624) and "De religione gentilium" (1645)

 

Though Descartes was certainly writing along similar lines with "Meditations on First Philosophy" (1641)

 

I would think that both of these men, plus many other helped to contribute to the foundation of Deism.

 

 

Originally posted by dyermaker

I think the main thing lost by the common belief of 'faith in God, but not religion' ideology is the loss of a community of Faith to support you.

 

Thankfully we have the Internet these days!

 

But yeah, I may actually be coming around to that view as I get older...things change.

[wideawake]

Originally posted by Moose

I just looked up a Catholic website and apparently Catholics do consider themselves to be Christians. However, I still think there is a huge difference in what we believe.

 

Wow...as Christians you folks should really do some history reading on how your religion came about.

 

 

Originally posted by Moose

So, how would we differenciate the two, would I be considered Baptist, and you Catholic but we are still Christians????

 

Yes, there's probably (no lie) about 1000 different 'Christian' sects...maybe more...once you throw in all the Coptics and Eastern Orthodox folks...

 

Originally posted by Moose

Ever learning and always quick to admit he's wrong.......Moose

 

Word on that Moose.

 

Ok...let's start here:

 

Go to http://www.wikipedia.com

 

Do a search for "Christianity"

 

Read everything.

 

 

A Quick Overview:

 

Early Chirsitianity was one big happy family in the first century AD, than around 1054 AD the Roman Empire is divided into two factions - East and West. The folks in the East develope the Eastern Orthodox religions and they go off and do their own thing. The West becomes the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

 

Things are all cool until around 1520 or so when Martin Luther has a hissy fit and decides to throw down with the Pope. This is the birth of all Protestant religions (Baptist, Methodist, Church of England, etc...)

 

Basically your religion (Baptist I believe) is a off-shoot of the Roman Catholic Church. It's just one of the many Protestant sects that splintered away after the reformation in the 16th century.

 

Oh course recently we have this whole new aspect of Christianity going by the "Restorationists" and they claim to have some separate lineage directly back to the original Christian church, but of course there isn't one scrap of evidence to support anything they claim (these are folks like the Branch Davidians, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc...blah blah and more blah...)

 

here's a link for all the Christian sects:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

 

Peace,

 

WA

[YellowLioness]

Hey, sorry I just saw that you replied to my thoughts on religion. I'm silly and over look things at times:

 

Yeah, a big part of why I don't like anything organized is that I think that it divides mankind. I won't be a part of something that is going to put a barrier between me and the next guy. I'd prefer to learn from his/her beliefs.

 

Have you ever seen Dogma? Dyer, have YOU seen Dogma? What do you think?

 

Chris Rock says something like, "The difference between an idea and a belief is that ideas can be changed."

 

I like that. I learn more and more every day. Its harder to incorporate new things if you already have it set in your head what is right and what is wrong.

[Moose]

Wow...as Christians you folks should really do some history reading on how your religion came about.

 

I think much like lioness does. Although I attend a Baptist Church, I don't believe in everything that they preach. I follow my heart....so I don't really know what sect, if any, I belong to. I take scripture the way my heart translates it.

 

I HATE history!!!! I mean, it's boring. I think scripture is fascinating even though you'd consider a lot of it history.

 

So reading about how other sects came about isn't going to happen. I think Lioness and I should start our own sect and call it, "Followyourheartism", and have devotions on "Mt. Wannahawkaloogy".

[wideawake]

Originally posted by Moose

have devotions on "Mt. Wannahawkaloogy".

 

Gross.

 

Just kidding boss.

 

You asked about the whole Christian deal and I was just trying to frame it up for ya, no harm no foul.

 

But if you're going to consider yourself a Christian I don't think it hurts to at least understand how that ideology came about.

 

Peace in the middle east,

 

WA