Cheating w/ husbands best friend and starting to have feelings

[Mr Spock]

Actually, resevoir dogs, I've been on every side of the triangle. Do I think it's honest of her to engage in this relationship? No. Do I think it makes her a bad person? No. People get themselves into fixes ALL THE TIME.

 

Anyways, I'm glad I'm interesting enough to grant "research"

 

 

So you were propositioned, and refused. Good for you. If you're highly attracted to someone, and vice versa, and they touch you in a sexual way it's VERY hard to think straight. Especially when women tend to tie feelings to sex in a way that men don't.

 

 

I think nothing is obvious about me. I don't think screwing around in a relationship is acceptable. I just don't hate her for not regretting it. You do whatever you want with your psychotherapist-that worked for you, I guess.

 

Either way, f*cking someone other than her husband doesn't make her a whore. It doesn't make her an easy lay, it doesn't make her a sinner. I don't think anything I say is coated in sugar. And you certainly aren't being empathic. Just like one of the many, bitter spouses that come on here to deliver a lesson in morality. She's not f*cking your wife, so stop insulting her. Everyone. If she didn't already KNOW that porking her best friend's husband was wrong she wouldn't be so upset about the whole situation.

[Grinning Maniac]

But...how upset is she really if she wants to do it over and over again?

 

I don't really understand it. Does she feel that she somehow deserves to have two partners, anyone's feelings be damned? I'm not even sure what advice she's asking for. The only advice we could possibly give as rational human beings is "stop it!" but she doesn't want that at all, so why are we talking?

[supermom]

But...how upset is she really if she wants to do it over and over again?

 

Thats what I don't understand either.

[Grinning Maniac]

Ok. Glad to see I'm not nuts in being lost here...

 

I wish the topic starter would post and give us some idea of what advice she expected? How to best go about having her cake and eating it too with these guys? I mean...there ARE forums like that out there, but this isn't one of them obviously. I kinda thought we all tried to help people.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Ok, here we go again-listen. If you WANT to help someone, please try and keep the "blah...blah...blah" out of your posts. You don't need to keep stating you don't approve of infidelity. Because that's kind of obvious.

 

If you were addressing that to me because I suggested her sleeping with more men, I was totally serious. She wants it all and doesn't understand why she is developing feelings. Maybe if she has enough men, she won't connect emotionally to any of them and can just keep having sex. That was the only suggestion I could give her that addressed what she wants.

 

Just because someone doesn't like my suggestion, doesn't mean my suggestion has less value than anyone else's.

 

Yeah, I'm against infidelity and as long as people keep posting about it, I'll voice my opinion on it. I've made bad choices in life, and paid for them. Infidelity was never one of them. This woman doesn't want to stop. I never said that made her a totally bad person either----but I sure wouldn't want to have anything to do with someone like that.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Either way, f*cking someone other than her husband doesn't make her a whore. It doesn't make her an easy lay, it doesn't make her a sinner.

TO YOU. Qualify this. It does make someone who professes to an affair that they do not wish to stop, a whore, easy lay, or sinner to a lot of people and they are no more wrong than you are. She has got to deal with that. People are going to express their opinions on infidelity. In a moderated forum those names can be deleted, but when it gets out she will probably be called a LOT worse in person. She might as well realize that now.

 

I quit a job---a GREAT job that I loved and I still 'mourn' for sometimes---because there was a man there who wanted to have an affair with me. At that time my husband and I had not had sex in over 10 YEARS! Don't you think the temptation was tremendous for me?!

 

I thought seriously about having an affair, I thought about the logistics of the physical act and about the emotional ramifications for everyone involved. I CHOSE to not have an affair. I CHOSE to remain celibate with my husband.

 

I have absolutely NO sympathy for someone who deludes themselves into thinking its happening TO them, and/or who actively takes part and doesn't want to stop. NO SYMPATHY, NO ACCEPTANCE, ZERO TOLERANCE, ZERO ENABLING for the act and attitude involving infidelity.

 

A lot of people gave good advice, especially you Mr Spock - about her needing help and trying to understand why she is doing this. I first directly answered her question by saying Get A Divorce. In my second response I gave advice from a totally different perspective by trying to only address her question about having developed feelings for her MM, and not wanting to stop, without passing judgment on her.

 

My last two posts are for her to read, but directed as responses to other posts in the thread.

[StartingAgain]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Actually, resevoir dogs, I've been on every side of the triangle. Do I think it's honest of her to engage in this relationship? No. Do I think it makes her a bad person? No. People get themselves into fixes ALL THE TIME.

 

She didn't find herself in anything. She walk straight into it because she wanted it. TWICE!

 

 

So you were propositioned, and refused. Good for you. If you're highly attracted to someone, and vice versa, and they touch you in a sexual way it's VERY hard to think straight. Especially when women tend to tie feelings to sex in a way that men don't.

 

Oh really?. I'm a pretty goodlooking fellow, or at least I'm told. I've never been to a professional conference where I wasn't hit on. And I mean hit on beautiful, highly educated women. Once a drop dead beeautiful woman I'd been admiring from afar (and having some very hot private thoughts about) approached me in an afternoon cocktail mixer. She minced no words, but said "I'd like nothing more than to tiurn you everyway but loose tonight." I slashed my ring nd said sorry, I'm married. she snapped back with "Married, but not dead, and miles away from the old ball and chain. What's a little fun going to hurt?" I politely refused and she wrote her room number on her business card and gave it to me. "Just tap on my door tonight if you change your mind and I sooo hope you do." I didn't. Oh! But had I been single!

 

You last sentence suggests that women aren't as capable of controlling themselves as men. Now that's a reversal of an old stereotype! Glad a woman said that an not me. I like my testicles.

 

Either way, f*cking someone other than her husband doesn't make her a whore. It doesn't make her an easy lay, it doesn't make her a sinner. I don't think anything I say is coated in sugar. And you certainly aren't being empathic. Just like one of the many, bitter spouses that come on here to deliver a lesson in morality. She's not f*cking your wife, so stop insulting her. Everyone. If she didn't already KNOW that porking her best friend's husband was wrong she wouldn't be so upset about the whole situation.

 

I don't recall anyone calling her a whore. A whore is someone who provides sex in exchange for money. I do recall that I said she's an easy lay. And she is. I was the husband of a cheater, but I'm not bitter. But I also won't come here and let you cheaters think that what you do is in any way right. It's wrong; very, very wrong. If she knows it's wrong, why the hell is she still doing it, especially when she admits she's beginning to have feelings for him? You see, I'm not biting and I don't accept weak excuses for bad behavior.

[Mr Spock]

Sigh. Startingagain, what my statement SAYS and not suggests is that she had ample time to develop strong feelings for this man before he touched her, and when it happened it made it easier in her mind to proceed with an affair because women tend to put feelings into sex, more so then men. (and I should know, because I typed the thing)

 

And if you're going around informing strangers posting on an internet forum that they're bad weak people and it makes them an easy lay-you're still bitter.

 

 

 

Hokey, your own story almost borders on martyrdom-you do seem to have a great reserve of internal fortitude. I think what galls you the most is her lack of remorse. She doesn't WANT to give up this guy, and it's driving everyone NUTS. What if she was able to keep both relationships going? Ignorance is bliss, as they say-everyone is happy. What then? Sure, you'd have to have nerves of steel to pull it off, and probably intestines of steel as well. I don't think it's the right decision to make, but it is an option. And it would horrify you, but not me-just two people with very different ideas.

[VivianLee]

I quit a job---a GREAT job that I loved and I still 'mourn' for sometimes---because there was a man there who wanted to have an affair with me. At that time my husband and I had not had sex in over 10 YEARS! Don't you think the temptation was tremendous for me?!

 

HokeyReligious....I just wanted to pick your brain for a minute ....if you're husband had had an affair but then you and he were having the "dry season"....would you have been more inclined to give into the temptation?? (I know this isn't right) but would you have felt more inclined to think "well he could have sex with her (which had ALL kinds of risks) but wouldn't have sex with me!" Could you have fought off the temptation as much??

[moimeme]

Either way, f*cking someone other than her husband doesn't make her a whore. It doesn't make her an easy lay, it doesn't make her a sinner.

 

When are you and others ever going to get it? It is NOT about 'morality'. AT ALL.

 

People have utterly lost sight of the fact that 'morality' is about rules but the rules originated for a purpose.

 

The moment a person decides to go ahead and have an affair is the moment that person depersonalizes their spouse. The spouse ceases to be a living, breathing human WITH FEELINGS OF HIS OWN and a heart that can be hurt and turns into the other person in the house. In choosing HER desires, she puts herself, her wants, and her wishes above those of her spouse - and in the worst way. She betrays his trust - and trust is a gift, not easily earned and something to be revered.

 

She does not deserve empathy - she has gone into this with full knowing. The people like me who respond with outrage are doing so out of empathy for the deceived spouse who cannot even choose a course of action because he is being lied to and betrayed. His feelings are not considered whatsoever as people debate how her feelings should be tread upon carefully. This, to me, is repugnant. What about her husband's feelings? Does he not matter because he hasn't posted here? He has done nothing to her to deserve this betrayal. She doesn't complain about his lack of attention. He doesn't beat or abuse her. But still, he has lost her loyalty.

 

The moment you allow yourself to forget that the other person in the relationship has a heart that can be wounded is the moment you need to be brought up short, IMHO.

 

So don't expect me to be empathic to people who are not empathic towards their own spouses. That is not 'moralism'; it is caring about human hearts.

[seriously confused]

I am not here to judge you nor should anyone else but as human beings sometimes we do it anyway. There is no doubt here, you have put yourself in quite the mess, and it will be nearly impossible to walk away from this pain free. Someone will get hurt. I have to say that sometimes when we feel that the passion in our bedrooms is gone we usually turn elsewhere. It happens everyday. And to alot of people surprisingly enough. Nothing, especially marriage is sacred anymore. Part of the problem is communication, if there are problems in your marriage then the other person has the right, as your hubbie to know what these problems are. And needs the opportunity to see what can be done to fix those probs. However honey, you have not given him the chance to fix your broken marriage. Most relationships survive cheating. I am not sure why, but it happens alot.

 

I really reccomend that you talk with your FRIEND, and the two of you need to put a stop to this. You have no idea how much is at steak here. agree with your FRIEND that the two of you need to stop this now!!!! And agree that you both need to tell your others what you have done, and hope that things can be worked out. Really dear it's the only thing you can do. If you continue, then there are too many people that get hurt while you and he get your rocks off.

 

It's not easy when the chemistry is gone out of your bed but it does not mean that you should go elsewhere. I know from experience. There are serious problems in my home, and I too have a FRIEND that drives me crazy, I have not however acted on the impulse, because that is all it is. It's almost like shopping, you see something you really like and you know you cannot afford to buy it. You have enough money yo buy it but then something else will go on unpaid.

 

At the end of the day, there is nothing posetive about continuing to do what you are doing. Please, for your kids sakes let the friendship go and fess up to what you two have done. Kids are innocent and they didn't ask to be born, we bring them in to the world and it's our job to protect them. And you will more than likely loose your FRIEND before you will loose your hubbie.

 

Anytime you want to talk send me an e-mail or add me to messenger if you want. Take care and good luck......... from seriously confused

[sinner]

The moment a person decides to go ahead and have an affair is the moment that person depersonalizes their spouse. The spouse ceases to be a living, breathing human WITH FEELINGS OF HIS OWN and a heart that can be hurt and turns into the other person in the house.

 

 

And the moment a porn-obsessed husband jerks off to porn, in violation of an express promise to his wife that he will no longer do so, and continues compulsively to have sex with his right hand to pictures or videos of naked women , his spouse also ceases to be a living, breathing human WITH FEELINGS OF HER OWN and becomes a heart that can be hurt . If a spouse can be a victim of adultery, she also can be a victim of her husband's porn habits. The feeling of victim hood is a state of mind. To deny someone her grievance is to deny her humanity.

[moimeme]

And the moment a porn-obsessed husband jerks off to porn, in violation of an express promise to his wife that he will no longer do so, and continues compulsively to have sex with his right hand to pictures or videos of naked women , his spouse also ceases to be a living, breathing human WITH FEELINGS OF HER OWN and becomes a heart that can be hurt

 

Sorry, but it's a false analogy which proves nothing. Insert 'smoking' or 'eating junk food' where you put 'porn' and you'll see how ridiculous your proposition is. People have a terrible time giving up habits, particularly habits that predated their relationships. It is unreasonable to read a person's inabilty to give up a habit as a lack of love for oneself. Therefore in the case you cite, the spouse needs to adjust her attitude to the porn - it's an attitude she never should have had because it's unfair. Her distress is based on her erroneous belief that her mate loves the porn, cigarettes, or junk food more than the wife, which is never true.

 

In the case of adulterous betrayal, it is clear that the betraying spouse in fact does prefer the company, sex, or whatever of their adulterous partner to that of their own partner. They give loyalty and affection which should belong to their spouse to someone else. The same cannot be said about sex, cigarettes, booze, gambling, or porn.

 

Here's your own analogy back at you. A wife thinks she is ugly. Her husband lusts after her and thinks she's the most desirable female walking. The wife still feels bad about herself, and no matter what the husband does, still thinks she's ugly. How is he responsible for her belief? How can he be blamed for her believing in something that doesn't exist? What about the perennially suspicious woman who believes her husband is cheating when he is trustworthy and honourable? Does the suspicious one just keep believing in her unfounded beliefs? Does the husband deserve accusations and suspicion merely because the wife believes what she believes despite there being no basis for the belief?

 

The problem with the porn threads is that the women in them believe that the men prefer the porn or the women in the porn to them even when the men insist, truthfully, that they do not. If your 'grievance' exists because of your false impressions or erroneous conclusions, then you need to be put straight, not the person who is not guilty of the things he's accused of doing.

 

Not every thought or emotion is reasonable or fair; sometimes people need to change their beliefs rather than demand that the world around them change to accommodate their beliefs. So your analogy hasn't a leg to stand on.

[StartingAgain]

OK, Mr. Spock. I'm really not trying to pick on you, but rather find some way to make you understand that infidelity is an action that does a lot of damage. As Moimeme says morality is about rules for governing one's life.

 

Let me personalize this a bit so that maybe you can understand why I and others hold the point of view we do. Someone said that you are a former cheater and you seem to approach this matter from that perspective. The other side of the coin is so mych different. Imagine that you love someone with all your heart. You've pledged your life to this person. You trust him implicitly and know he would never deliberately do anything to hurt you. You joyfully make sacrifices for him and think of him first before you do anything. That was the way was with me. That's the way I felt about my wife. I saw her affair coming and tried to warn her. But she was caught up in it. When I confronted her and was told that she had made love to her OM that day, I remained calm. At least I maintained a calm facade. Inside, my world was going black. I felt so betrayed. Imagine what it was like for me after that. I would know that when she was not home, she was with him. I would have to sit there alone knowing... She was in his bed taking him inside her body -- something she had promised to do only with me. She was holdng himn in her arms rather than me. She was whispering things in his ear that she should only be whipering to me. Listen to the cold wind blow. You vacillate between red hot anger to exquisite pain. Yet I stood by her. Went into therapy with her and looked for faults in my own behavior that may have driven her to do such a thing. While I was doing this, she withdrew from me farther and farther, making the sense of betrayal more poignant. It would have been so easy if I could have just switched my love for her off the way she had switched hers for me off. But I couldn't do it. My love for her, something that had been a source of great joy, had become a source of pain. Meanwhile of course, I had to go our everyday and show a brave face to the world. I had meetings to attend, deadlines to meet. I had to function normally. So every morning, I had to throw up a wall around my pain and let it fester there. I wanted desperately to talk to someone about all this, but I really couldn't talk to the one person I really wanted to talk to; my best friend, my wife. She no longer really cared to hear what I had to say. She knew she was doing wrong, but she didn't care. In the end, I was presented with a divorce for my loyalty, for enduring the pain of the betrayal. All we had worked for, everything we had built and acheived together was lost simply because she crossed a boundry she should not have crossed.

 

You say I'm bitter. But I'm not. I've forgiven her and slowly we are remembering that we have been best friends for a long time. But sometimes that pain comes back. It doesn't come so often anymore, but it does come. I suspect that I will experience it for the rest of my life and will always have to be on my guard so that it doesn't make me bitter.

 

You see, the wandering spouse is all caught up in their affair. They know the excitement and the passion and the lust. They probably know the guilt and the sense that what they are doing is wrong. But that's nothing in comparison to what their spouse is feeling. Until it happens to them, they cannot know. So, I will never, ever stand idlely by and say nothing to someone I know is committing this wrong against another. Rather, I will call them on it. If I seem too harsh, well, my harshness is nothing like the pain and suffering that their behavior is going to cause the person to whom they took a sacred vow. In this particular case their is an even deeper consideration: innocent children who will be caught in the middle of their parents lives coming apart at the seams. All because this woman is too weak to control hers impulses and lacks the moral rectitude to honor her vow and do her duty as a wife and mother. Yes, I said weak. She is weak. You will call me judgemental. I am judgemental and my judgement comes from knowledge.

[sami]

I totally agree with Hokeyreligions that " sex nevere happens, you invited it to happen". This is bad for both of you.

[moimeme]

Moimeme, you are one of the things that make BC beautiful!

 

You are too kind, sir!

[littleflowerpot]

"You will call me judgemental. I am judgemental and my judgement comes from knowledge."

 

well, brain surgeons, if you are more knowledgeable and therefore more qualified to make moral judgements, then i suppose those of us that have been the OW and have also been the spouse that's been cheated on must be the most qualified judges in the arena. and i say "off with your heads, the lot of you."

 

[StartingAgain]

I don't know exactly where this touchy-feely idea that "you have no right to judge!" came from, but it is so flawed and utterly pointless. It sounds so noble and tolerant to say it, but it's meaningless. We all make judgements, even moral judgements, everyday. If we didn't, our society would degrade into chaos. If we didn't we'd say we have no right to judge that a child molester is wrong to molest children, that a rapist may rape with impunity, that we have no right to vote, that thieves may take our property, that murders may take the lives of others, that it's acceptable to leave our children alone and without food, etc. etc. etc. We judge these things to be wrong and bad for both our society and the individuals who make up that society. So we make laws and establish social mores. Yet when someone calls another down for violating our mores, someone will always pop up do declare that "you have no right to judge!" Rubbish.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by StartingAgain

I don't know exactly where this touchy-feely idea that "you have no right to judge!" came from, but it is so flawed and utterly pointless. It sounds so noble and tolerant to say it, but it's meaningless. We all make judgements, even moral judgements, everyday. If we didn't our society would degrade into chaos. If we didn't we'd say we have no right to judge that a child molester is wrong to molest children, that a rapist may rape with impunity, that we have no right to vote, that thieves may take our property, that murders may take the lives of others, that it's acceptable to leave our children alone and without food, etc. etc. etc. We judge these things to be wrong and bad for both our society and the individuals who make up that society. So we make laws and establish social mores. Yet when someone calls another down for violating our mores, someone will always pop up do declare that "you have no right to judge!" Rubbish.

 

to equate consenting people who made the mistake of being involved in an affair with pedophilia, rape, and murder is complete and utter rubbish.

[supermom]

When you marry someone, it is supposed to be for better or for worse. If there is any inclination that you may stray from the marriage, why get married in the first place?

 

If people would put more thought into getting married then maybe this wouldn't happen as much.

 

We all have a choice, it's not as much about morality, but the CHOICE to cheat.

 

When are you and others ever going to get it? It is NOT about 'morality'. AT ALL.

 

People have utterly lost sight of the fact that 'morality' is about rules but the rules originated for a purpose.

 

So let's stop using the word "moral" for a minute and insert the word "choice" into it. The bottom line is that she and the OM have made THE CHOICE to betray both spouses, and the choice to betray their "best friends".

 

It's not like he just tripped and his wanker fell into her....they both made a choice.

[reservoirdog1]

For God's sake LittleFlowerPot, she's not equating cheaters with child molesters or rapists or murderers. She's pointing out that judgment is passed by people upon others every day, for many things. Those are simply extreme examples.

 

Besides, since when is "moral superiority" a bad thing anyway? Who suddenly made it unacceptable to express disapproval towards people who do things knowing that their actions will hurt others? We've all presumably been brought up to know that we shouldn't do things that will hurt others. It's also true that each and every one of us has done things like that, knowing full well what the result will be.

 

But, let's just leave "morality" out of it. Bad character is not demonstrated by simply doing things that hurt others. It is demonstrated by denying accountability or responsibility, seeking to justify your actions, and not expressing regret or a willingness to make amends. And, most importantly, by not curtailing the behaviour that you know to be hurtful to others. The person who started this thread fits this description perfectly.

 

The wonderful thing about poor character, however, is that it can be changed. And I think a lot of people on this thread would feel a lot more empathy towards lexingtongirl if she was demonstrating willingness or interest in doing something to fix hers. It's not as though the way for her to do it is shrouded in mystery; it's pretty simple. What it takes is guts and will power. Owning up to what she did and trying to make things right will take intestinal fortitude. Cowardice, on the other hand, will keep her doing exactly what she is doing.

 

Yes, I am judging her. But I will be the first to admit to having misjudged her if she decides to do the right thing, come clean, and recommit to building a healthy marriage with her husband, rather than boinking somebody else's.

[moimeme]

People mistake the essence of judgement. You are never to judge a person. The idea is not to say 'you are a bad person', but rather to say 'you have done a bad thing'. There's a big difference. We're expected, JC, says to love the person who does the bad thing even if not the bad thing.

 

Problem is that people consider one act to be representative of the person, which isn't fair. Sometimes people do bad things because they haven't even thought the situation through and, when appraised of other considerations they may not have taken into account, they cease to do them. Which is why, Mr. Spock and flowerpot, people say what they say to these OW.

[Grinning Maniac]

Is anyone else finding it odd that lexingtongirl hasn't really posted at all in her own thread? I mean, this thing is getting pretty big and we're all pretty much just talking amongst ourselves.

 

 

What's with all this "moral superiority" bull****?

 

She came HERE for advice. We didn't come knocking on HER door. That advice is going to come with some judgement, like it or not. Sorry, but that's how the human mind works. You're a liar if you say you've never once judged something someone has done, flowerpot. So please. We think she's doing something stupid and needs to stop. What about that implies that we think we are "superior"?

 

What, we should tell her to keep banging the guy just so we look more humble?

[supermom]

I find it odd.

 

Here we all are starting to argue about her problem and she isn't even adding to it.

 

I don't think this is worth all that much arguing. I'm done with it. She wants help she needs to participate as well.

[Grinning Maniac]

Same here.