Is this over or should I keep hoping?

[heartdok]

Hello to all. I would like to hear other people opinions about my situation but also would like to take this off my chest. The post is a bit longer so here it goes.

 

In October 2011 I started affair with my co-worker. We are both married, in mid 30s, no children. Her husband is away for most of year. Very soon we discovered that we have many things together and she mentioned frequently how she sees us together in future as married couple. Around Christmas her husband returned for two months. We met at work regularly but our meetings outside of work were reduced to once a month or so. He left by the end of February and things started to improve. However, by this time I had lot of frustration built inside of me and wanted to know where we stand. She was vague in her conversations, not willing to commit etc so I left for the first time in March 2012. After a week of my NC she started calling like crazy and pouring her heart out so I gave in.

 

In May 2012 we were on 5 days business trip. I arranged her favourite flowers to be delivered in her room and proposed with ring. She said yes. However, next day when she woke up I could feel something is different. She started playing some mind games, saying how she is afraid she will lose her freedom etc. On our way back home we were fighting all the time so I gave up and went NC again thinking it is all over. Some 5-6 days later she started calling me every day and asking to meet. At that meeting she promised heaven and earth just to take her back. She also said that she got scared. Later that night I asked again does she want to marry me. She said yes. However, she said she wants to leave her husband through few conversations and that it will all be done by the end of summer and we will be together. I also agreed to say to my wife that it is over and I want divorce.

 

At first things started to improve. We would meet few times a week even though her husband returned home. She even said that she had first conversation with him about divorce. However, soon everything was going back to old routine and I again felt unhappy. I tried to talk about it to her but she did not change anything. One day in June she told me she is leaving with him for a weekend to some friends house. I felt hurt with this as I declined invitation from friends to my wife and myself for that weekend since we made some plans to go together that weekend out. We got into heated fight which lasted for two days and all frustration I accumulated inside for months came to the surface. She said I am exaggerating; it is only a weekend etc. On the day she was supposed to leave she told me that I am better off alone without her hurting me. She did go on that trip with him and while there did not contact me.

 

During next 10 days I tried to work things out. I did talking and even some begging. She was giving mixed signals. One day she would be open to reconciliation, then next day she would say we are better away from each other. I felt as if she is playing games with me. She did not want, however, to meet me outside our work and all communication was calls and texting. At one point I said that I agree with break up. She was puzzled but left my office without a word. Two days pass and I receive text in which she apologised for all things she did to me. I invite her to meet next day but she keeps going on with this hot and cold behaviour and says she is not ready. I left it at that and said that it is enough.

 

Two weeks later she starts contacting. It was small talk so I stayed cool and distant. This had some effect so she invited me to meet her. We met but it did not go well. She kept playing her game of hot and cold and being silent. The only thing that made her react was at one point when she asked what would happen if we do not get back together. I said that I will decide whether I want to be alone or to give my wife another chance. This made her crazy as if I removed her safety net (in our next few conversations it was only thing she talked about). However, I said that my primary objective is for us to be together and that I am willing to leave immediately with her. She started again saying how she can’t leave but she loves me, how her husband is leaving in two weeks and there is not enough time for anything etc.

 

Two days have passed in silence and then I hear from her. I wanted to know where we stand. She said that she is mine, she loves me etc. We were supposed to meet next day but she cancelled it. Four days later she contacts me asking to continue that conversation. She then said that she feels it is best for me that we go our own way “for the moment”. She also said that she feels bad knowing that I am waiting for her (I promised I will wait until her husband is here). At this point I really had enough so I said that I really wanted us to work, that I did my best but it takes two to build relationship. I also apologised again if I crossed line in attempts to get us back together. I ended by saying that I feel everything we had should stay in the past and that this is my last message to her and I will not contact her anymore.

 

It has been two weeks since then without contact. For all I know, her husband left and will not be back before Christmas. I do miss her and love her even after everything that happened. However, I know for things to work she needs to be the one to come to me. Many here will say that it is best for me to move on. However, thoughts are running through my mind. I wonder whether it was right to say these last words that “it is last she’ll hear from me”. I also wonder is there any hope that no contact and me staying out of the picture will make her come to her senses and come back for real or is this just my wishful thinking?

Edited August 25, 2012 by heartdok

[anne1707]

Let me get this straight. You are frustrated with her because she has not left her husband, yet you won't leave your wife until she leaves him. Pot, kettle...

 

Forget about the OW for now and decide whether you want to stay with your wife or not. If you do want to stay, end the affair and work on your marriage. If the marriage is over, end it now - give your wife a chance to be with someone who loves her and wants her.

 

If you do that and the OW still does not leave her husband, forget her - she is cake eating.

[goldengirl11]

Hi Heartdoc,

 

I feel for you, especially as I am going through a similar sort of situation at the moment, where it appears to be off with this friend/ex colleague. Although we plan to meet a month from now, but am secretly scared he will hurt me again. I have also written a bit about it in someone else's heartbroken it's over thread on here.

 

I do think it's possible she will get in touch with you, as she seems to have done several times before, but perhaps at the moment she is confused? I don't know - but thought I would reply to you as like I said I know where you're coming from. However, I am single though but the other person is married. Have never been in this position before either.

 

I think it was brave of you to say it would be your last contact to her, which am sure will help you to keep with NC! Maybe you could consider dropping her a line at Christmas if you do not hear from her beforehand? Just a thought.

 

Best wishes,

 

GG

[Silly_Girl]

OP, I'm not sure I could respect or trust someone behaving as she is. Even if she left, she'd likely go back as she's not fully committed. She's one of those who might even go back POST-DIVORCE. Do you *want* that level of drama and worry in your life?

 

And, as Anne says, if you're not making moves to be with her, why should she do same? If you can't be a decent husband to your life why not leave and build a life that satisfies you? You'd be more likely to meet a good, well-suited partner that way.

[heartdok]

Let me get this straight. You are frustrated with her because she has not left her husband, yet you won't leave your wife until she leaves him. Pot, kettle...

 

 

If you do that and the OW still does not leave her husband, forget her - she is cake eating.

 

I did not give all details here. On more than one occassion I said to her that I am willing to leave everything and immediately go with her. However, she was the one saying that I should not talk to my wife before she does it with her husband. When I asked why she said that she does not want to feel pressure that she "has to do something" because I left my wife. However, I did talk to my wife some time ago and said I want divorce. As we live in small town, my wife told this to friend who has a friend who knows this co-worker (mistress) of mine so she knows that I am serious here. I have no intention of staying in my marriage. We had problems long before this affair and my wife also thinks that it can't be saved.

[anne1707]

I did not give all details here. On more than one occassion I said to her that I am willing to leave everything and immediately go with her. However, she was the one saying that I should not talk to my wife before she does it with her husband. When I asked why she said that she does not want to feel pressure that she "has to do something" because I left my wife. However, I did talk to my wife some time ago and said I want divorce. As we live in small town, my wife told this to friend who has a friend who knows this co-worker (mistress) of mine so she knows that I am serious here. I have no intention of staying in my marriage. We had problems long before this affair and my wife also thinks that it can't be saved.

 

Yet you are still with your wife so nothing has really changed. As it is, my point still stands. If you want a divorce, leave your wife now - stop playing games with her and using her as a back-up.

[alexandria35]

Your OW doesn't want to leave her husband for you. Sounds like she likes the freedom her current marriage affords her and she isn't about to leave that, go through the messiness and drama of divorce just wind up tied down to someone else full time. She likes her freedom.

 

Please start making arrangements to leave your wife. If you were willing to leave her to be with your OW, then you should be willing to leave her on your own. Be a man and set her free.

Edited August 27, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[whichwayisup]

Your MW isn't looking to leave and divorce her husband. That talk of you two being together, married and starting over together is just talk and fantasy.. She continues to live life with her husband when he's home. She may really love you but not enough to divorce and be with you.

 

When I asked why she said that she does not want to feel pressure that she "has to do something" because I left my wife.

 

This screams "I'm not leaving my husband for you even you leave your wife. I don't want to be forced into anything."

 

Seems she's just enjoying having you in her life to fill in the gaps when her husband isn't around. She wants the affair - Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Also, your MW is probably worried that if your wife finds out the truth (real reason why you want a D) that your wife will freak out and call her husband and tell him.

 

As for your wife, since you don't love her and were thinking divorce eventually, why not do it now? Reguardless of what MW does or doesn't do.

[heartdok]

 

As for your wife, since you don't love her and were thinking divorce eventually, why not do it now? Reguardless of what MW does or doesn't do.

 

Staying with my wife is not an option and I am getting divorced. We talked about it few times over last weeks and agreed that it is best option. I wanted to go divorce already in May but my MW asked me not to do it then. We agreed that she will first make several conversations with her husband and that we will say to our partners at same time sometimes mid-July or early August. As you can see this has not happened. My question was whether there is any point in hoping she will figure things out and come back.

[scatterd]

It sounds like your OW wants to cake eat. When ever you are ready to leave she has a reason not to. She wants to cheat and that is all. I have seen many people here leave their marriage and the OP does not follow. Has she told her husband she wants out? If she wanted out she would be gone. As soon as you was serious she got scared. What do you think she is scared of. I think its her husband finding out.

[eleanorrigby]

Staying with my wife is not an option and I am getting divorced. We talked about it few times over last weeks and agreed that it is best option. I wanted to go divorce already in May but my MW asked me not to do it then. We agreed that she will first make several conversations with her husband and that we will say to our partners at same time sometimes mid-July or early August. As you can see this has not happened. My question was whether there is any point in hoping she will figure things out and come back.

 

Well, why not get started on your divorce? It would probably be a very good distraction from what is bothering you right now.

Kill two birds and all that...

Your OW might flip your way, she might not, but at least you won't be putting your life and your wife's life on hold anymore waiting on someone else's decision. (someone that really shouldn't be part of your decision anyway.)

Edited August 25, 2012 by eleanorrigby

[veryhappy]

Please don't take it the wrong way, but is she financially better off with her H then she'd be with you?

 

Do we think you should still hope? No. She seems to want to keep you an AP. Will you stop hoping because we tell you so? Very likely not. Best way to go about it is for her to crush your hope and break your heart. So get the ring back (and never make such a silly gesture again), and give this lady an ultimatum. Not the kind that works for her, two years from now...the kind that works for you. Let her simmer and don't see her in that time. Then you will know for sure, and I'm sorry to say, but chances are she'll be just as married at that point with no plans to leave.

Edited August 26, 2012 by cutedragon

[heartdok]

Please don't take it the wrong way, but is she financially better off with her H then she'd be with you?

 

Do we think you should still hope? No. She seems to want to keep you an AP. Will you stop hoping because we tell you so? Very likely not. Best way to go about it is for her to crush your hope and break your heart. So get the ring back (and never make such a silly gesture again), and give this lady an ultimatum. Not the kind that works for her, two years from now...the kind that works for you. Let her simmer and don't see her in that time. Then you will know for sure, and I'm sorry to say, but chances are she'll be just as married at that point with no plans to leave.

 

Her H makes far more money than me, true. I did not put ultimatum exactly on her but did tell her that I am waiting until her H leaves. Then I went silent. Nothing happened since then. I somehow have feeling that it is really over this time. The way she talks was different in our last conversation. Also, we've never been without contact for this long.

[goldengirl11]

Her H makes far more money than me, true. I did not put ultimatum exactly on her but did tell her that I am waiting until her H leaves. Then I went silent. Nothing happened since then. I somehow have feeling that it is really over this time. The way she talks was different in our last conversation. Also, we've never been without contact for this long.

 

I'm sorry to hear that but I hope it works out for you. Hopefully she will miss you and later in life you will be able to give things another chance, but perhaps you will find a less complicated woman to be with properly in the meantime?!

[heartdok]

I'm sorry to hear that but I hope it works out for you. Hopefully she will miss you and later in life you will be able to give things another chance, but perhaps you will find a less complicated woman to be with properly in the meantime?!

 

Thanks for your wishes. However, like I said I really think that it is over for good and have lost all my hope. I know some people here think she made me fool. Perhapse she did. Perhapse I should have ended it long time ago. But I really thought we had something special and it is hard to accept that I gave my heart and was ready to leave everything for somebody who walked away on me after one fight, no matter how big it was.

[anne1707]

She did not walk away because of "one fight". She walked away because you asked for something she does not want to give you. You need to forget about her and concentrate on sorting out your life.

[heartdok]

She did not walk away because of "one fight". She walked away because you asked for something she does not want to give you. You need to forget about her and concentrate on sorting out your life.

 

I agree with you. Still it feels strange knowing that after our second break just two weeks before this one she was the one who brought marriage topic and said that she wants to leave her husband. Also, the day before this last break up she was saying how she cant wait to become my wife. Could all these be empty words and lies?

[veryhappy]

It's not about anything you did or didn't do. She's not willing to leave her cozy life, it works for her no matter how much she's complained about it.

 

Just try to move on and don't make her someone she's not in your mind.

[anne1707]

I agree with you. Still it feels strange knowing that after our second break just two weeks before this one she was the one who brought marriage topic and said that she wants to leave her husband. Also, the day before this last break up she was saying how she cant wait to become my wife. Could all these be empty words and lies?

 

She was saying what you wanted to hear - to keep the ego feed, i.e. you, in place. Once you pushed for more and it all got too real, she backed off (former WS here, I fed the exOM lines he wanted to hear too)

[MissBee]

Hi heartdok,

 

Maybe I'm missing something and didn't read everything carefully, but it sounds like you proposed to a married woman, while you yourself are still married and you want her to come to senses and leave her husband even though you're still married to your wife? Is this correct?

 

My reading of your situation seems like both of you are living in an unrealistic dreamland. You have nice ideas but they cannot be executed in reality. The proposal idea was cute in theory, but made no sense in real life. She was not your single gf whom you've been with for a while and have discussed marriage with so you popped the question....you guys went away for your job and it seems like it was one of your first chances to be away together, you're in a secret A, no divorce has been initiated, yet you proposed. She's still with her husband and it seems now that things have gone on, she isn't more inclined to leave but is pulling away from the A.

 

Are you divorcing your wife? If so, it needs to be because you don't want the marriage and her anymore. NC isn't for the other person to come to their senses, although I am sure in some instances that is a by-product, but it shouldn't be the goal. It seems that pulling away from the fantasy of the A is her coming to her senses. Perhaps she is realizing that what's going on with you two doesn't make sense or fit with her actual life and perhaps she wants to work on her marriage. You have to accept this as a huge possibility.

 

I don't think you should wait around hoping...I think you should invest your energies into why you had the A, if your marriage is salvageable or not and how you're going to move forward. If while you're genuinely doing that MW pops back up, saying she left her husband etc, then lucky for you, you two can probably start a relationship...but if she has said she wants space, give her space without waiting.

[heartdok]

Hi heartdok,

 

Maybe I'm missing something and didn't read everything carefully, but it sounds like you proposed to a married woman, while you yourself are still married and you want her to come to senses and leave her husband even though you're still married to your wife? Is this correct?

 

My reading of your situation seems like both of you are living in an unrealistic dreamland. You have nice ideas but they cannot be executed in reality. The proposal idea was cute in theory, but made no sense in real life. She was not your single gf whom you've been with for a while and have discussed marriage with so you popped the question....you guys went away for your job and it seems like it was one of your first chances to be away together, you're in a secret A, no divorce has been initiated, yet you proposed. She's still with her husband and it seems now that things have gone on, she isn't more inclined to leave but is pulling away from the A.

 

Are you divorcing your wife? If so, it needs to be because you don't want the marriage and her anymore. NC isn't for the other person to come to their senses, although I am sure in some instances that is a by-product, but it shouldn't be the goal. It seems that pulling away from the fantasy of the A is her coming to her senses. Perhaps she is realizing that what's going on with you two doesn't make sense or fit with her actual life and perhaps she wants to work on her marriage. You have to accept this as a huge possibility.

 

I don't think you should wait around hoping...I think you should invest your energies into why you had the A, if your marriage is salvageable or not and how you're going to move forward. If while you're genuinely doing that MW pops back up, saying she left her husband etc, then lucky for you, you two can probably start a relationship...but if she has said she wants space, give her space without waiting.

 

I did ask her to leave her husband and marry me, this is correct. However, I was not the only one who brought this topic. She brought it up herself several times and we had long conversations many times before I asked this question. I am aware that she might have gone back to her husband even though for some time I thought she wants me out of picture until she sorts things out (she did mention that she wants to leave without him thinking there is another person involved). But if she is cake eater why end things with me now at a point when her husband goes away for few months and leaves her alone? Wouldnt it be more logical for her to make up some story and try to buy herself more time?

 

Another thing that confuses me is that even after our break (and even in our last conversation when she said to me that it is better for me to move on and not wait for her) she was still giving hints that she sees no future with him and will leave him and come to me one day. There were also some usual fairytalles like "she is living life of her family, she is not happy etc" but nevertheless. In fact, her "second conversation" about marriage with her husband happened after our fight and break up. I could tell that she was really shocked when I told her that one of options for me in future is to give my wife another chance. Also, every time I would say that I wish to end it once and for all if she does not want to be with me for real she would get very upset and as if she does not that. It is all so confusing...

 

Btw, I am getting divorced and that is not question here. Problems between me and my wife have little to do with this affair. Over years our paths got diverted and we lost track of each other.

Edited August 26, 2012 by heartdok

[heartdok]

 

OP, I am so sorry you are hurting. It does sound as if she may be afraid to make a move. Sometimes the fear of the unknown is more than a person is willing to risk, it doesn't necessarilly mean that they weren't being truthful with you, it just means that they weren't strong enough to take a leap of faith. Sometimes love isn't enough.. and yes, sometimes they are just players, but that's not what this sounds like to me.

 

If you are planning on leaving your marriage, now might be a good time, it will help you to focus on what you want, lay your plans out for yourself for the future and begin to move forward. That may be what she needs to see, and if not, you are in a better position for you either way.

 

I wish you all the best.

 

I am not sure that this is what she wants. She said repeatedly that we have to do it together because if one of us exits marriage and other stays behind everything will be over. Also, on more than one occassion she pleaded me not to leave my marriage before she leaves her husband. I was clear towards her and said that she should divorce him ONLY IF she feels it is right thing to do and not because she feels pressure or anything.

 

I dont know what to think anymore. Sometimes I feel as if she was playing with me. Then, I recall how she often said that she feels pressure because she is older than me. This pressure meant that she is affraid she might not be able to give birth to child. Also, she was affraid how my friends and family will accept her because she is older almost a decade than my existing wife. I did try to talk her out of these ideas but without success. It is complicated I know...

[whichwayisup]

I agree with you. Still it feels strange knowing that after our second break just two weeks before this one she was the one who brought marriage topic and said that she wants to leave her husband. Also, the day before this last break up she was saying how she cant wait to become my wife. Could all these be empty words and lies?

 

It's so easy to get caught up in the feelings and the what if's/fantasy - One day being married and having a life together. At the time she said those things, she pictured it but deep down never had any intention of following through. It was just empty words and lies. That doesn't mean she didn't love you, she does - Just not enough to end her marriage and start over.

[heartdok]

Hi heartdok,

 

My reading of your situation seems like both of you are living in an unrealistic dreamland. You have nice ideas but they cannot be executed in reality. The proposal idea was cute in theory, but made no sense in real life. She was not your single gf whom you've been with for a while and have discussed marriage with so you popped the question....you guys went away for your job and it seems like it was one of your first chances to be away together, you're in a secret A, no divorce has been initiated, yet you proposed. She's still with her husband and it seems now that things have gone on, she isn't more inclined to leave but is pulling away from the A.

 

It was not our first trip together. Moreover, many times before when we talked about possibility of our affair ending with us being married she hinted that she would like me to propose at that time. In fact, she hinted few times that she expects it to happen there. Few weeks before that trip she even talked what kind of ring she wants, which size is she wearing etc. And even she said that if I ask her there I might be pleasantly surprised.

 

The only thing that comes to my sense now is that her husband returning home changed something. When we were talking about how we will do it she was scared that he might make some kind of scene when she tells him she wants divorce. And she was surprised with their first conversation when he calmly said that he thinks things should be done sooner rather than later if they lost each other. Dont know what to think anymore, honestly...

[alexandria35]

I did ask her to leave her husband and marry me, this is correct. However, I was not the only one who brought this topic. She brought it up herself several times and we had long conversations many times before I asked this question. I am aware that she might have gone back to her husband even though for some time I thought she wants me out of picture until she sorts things out (she did mention that she wants to leave without him thinking there is another person involved). But if she is cake eater why end things with me now at a point when her husband goes away for few months and leaves her alone? Wouldnt it be more logical for her to make up some story and try to buy herself more time?

 

Because she has made promises to you that she knows she has no intention of backing up. As time has gone on you have become more demanding and she has played along but now she knows you're going to want to see her taking some action.

 

Another thing that confuses me is that even after our break (and even in our last conversation when she said to me that it is better for me to move on and not wait for her) she was still giving hints that she sees no future with him and will leave him and come to me one day. There were also some usual fairytalles like "she is living life of her family, she is not happy etc" but nevertheless. In fact, her "second conversation" about marriage with her husband happened after our fight and break up. I could tell that she was really shocked when I told her that one of options for me in future is to give my wife another chance. Also, every time I would say that I wish to end it once and for all if she does not want to be with me for real she would get very upset and as if she does not that. It is all so confusing...

 

It is a common tactic for the dumper to try to make it look like they are suffering more than the dumpee. This doesn't just happen in affair break ups but in all kinds of break ups. "it's not you, it's me. My life is just so hard right now and I can't give you what you deserve, you are better off without me but I'm going to be miserable for the rest of my days..blah blah blah" It makes the dumper look better and the dumpee ends up feeling worse for the dumper than they feel for themselves. Win/Win for the dumper.

 

Btw, I am getting divorced and that is not question here. Problems between me and my wife have little to do with this affair. Over years our paths got diverted and we lost track of each other.

 

You have stated that you are getting divorced several times but when is that going to happen exactly? What steps have you taken? Have you filed? Are you sitting back waiting for your wife to do the work for you?

 

Also you have mentioned giving your wife another "chance" a couple of times as well. Lucky her that her husband who is proposing to another woman is considering giving her a "chance" to win the prize of you. Please just get an attorney and file already.