Is this over or should I keep hoping?

[MissBee]

I did ask her to leave her husband and marry me, this is correct. However, I was not the only one who brought this topic. She brought it up herself several times and we had long conversations many times before I asked this question. I am aware that she might have gone back to her husband even though for some time I thought she wants me out of picture until she sorts things out (she did mention that she wants to leave without him thinking there is another person involved). But if she is cake eater why end things with me now at a point when her husband goes away for few months and leaves her alone? Wouldnt it be more logical for her to make up some story and try to buy herself more time?

 

Another thing that confuses me is that even after our break (and even in our last conversation when she said to me that it is better for me to move on and not wait for her) she was still giving hints that she sees no future with him and will leave him and come to me one day. There were also some usual fairytalles like "she is living life of her family, she is not happy etc" but nevertheless. In fact, her "second conversation" about marriage with her husband happened after our fight and break up. I could tell that she was really shocked when I told her that one of options for me in future is to give my wife another chance. Also, every time I would say that I wish to end it once and for all if she does not want to be with me for real she would get very upset and as if she does not that. It is all so confusing...

 

Btw, I am getting divorced and that is not question here. Problems between me and my wife have little to do with this affair. Over years our paths got diverted and we lost track of each other.

 

I definitely understand how this is a confusing time for you...and we're not going to be able to answer every question you have about how she feels and thinks, as only she knows with certainty. In these situations, sometimes you never get to hear the truth and it gets to a point where you can decide that you "need to know the answers" in order to move forward or you realize, it may never happen, so you have to find a way to get pass it.

 

People say lots of things in As and regular relationships that do not pan out. Some people never meant it at the time and deliberately said it to mislead, others meant it then changed their minds later, or others didn't know heads from tails and were caught up saying all kinds of things that didn't even make sense. My impression is that your MW said those things and now she doesn't feel that way, for whatever reason, anymore. It's hard to deal with this...I know this. When you trust someone and you've planned together and they drop the ball or do a 180, it is confusing and hurtful, but people are indeed free to promise the world today and renege tomorrow...all we can do when that happens is to find a way to be at peace with what they're saying now, and not try to cash the promise checks of yesterday. It's not easy though...I definitely know this.

 

The truth of the matter is that no matter how much you talked... talking and doing, as you've seen, are different things. I can talk all day, everyday, non stop about things I wish, want, would do and will do...it's not the same as doing them. I personally think it is foolhardy to propose to someone who is still married and has only TALKED about leaving but hasn't left. It doesn't make sense to me personally. It's putting the cart before the horse. This MW knows you love her, you proposed to her...she now knows the ball is in her court and all you can do is step back and tie up your loose ends and see if she follows suit. Also, don't be confused in thinking that jealousy and passion naturally mean someone loves you or wants a relationship with you. It's confusing when you don't understand how people work...I grew to understand both in myself and others, that you can love the attention someone gives you, love that they love you, feel possessive and jealous if it seems they're taking that love/attention away or sharing it etc. but none of those feelings is about loving them. Your MW seems to be this way. She likes that you love her, likes how you make her feel, is going to be jealous if you give your wife another chance BUT it doesn't mean that she necessarily is willing to "go all the way" with you or that what she feels for you is pure and authentic.

 

I think in As it is often very difficult to know what is genuine, to know if the relationship has a future as a normal relationship etc. as when two people are escaping from their marriages or one or the other is escaping and compartmentalizing etc...it becomes very dicey and often more about two people using each other (without even consciously realizing they are) to fill holes and stroke their egos than it is about building a sustainable, loving relationship. It seems from all you're saying your MW is in the former group of people in As.

Edited August 26, 2012 by MissBee

[alexandria35]

It was not our first trip together. Moreover, many times before when we talked about possibility of our affair ending with us being married she hinted that she would like me to propose at that time. In fact, she hinted few times that she expects it to happen there. Few weeks before that trip she even talked what kind of ring she wants, which size is she wearing etc. And even she said that if I ask her there I might be pleasantly surprised.

 

The only thing that comes to my sense now is that her husband returning home changed something. When we were talking about how we will do it she was scared that he might make some kind of scene when she tells him she wants divorce. And she was surprised with their first conversation when he calmly said that he thinks things should be done sooner rather than later if they lost each other. Dont know what to think anymore, honestly...

 

ahhh..so she was expecting her husband to throw himself at her mercy, beg her to stay and fight for their marriage. His calm reaction and willingness to walk away from her threw her a curveball. Maybe she just likes to be chased and now her ego is bruised because her husband isn't going to put up the big fight she thought he would. Some women always find the man who wants them the least to be the most attractive and desirable. Perhaps by reacting the way he did he became more appealing to her and she is chasing him now. Or perhaps she was counting on him to hold her hostage in the marriage and make it seem impossible for her to leave. Maybe she thought she could safely play along with your plans for the future, secure in her belief that her husband would freak out and become far too difficult should she ever actually try to end the marriage. Then she could come crying to you about how she just can't leave because her husband is violent/suicidal/crazy. In any case his agreement that they should end things soon has freaked her out and she's clinging to him now.

[heartdok]

You have stated that you are getting divorced several times but when is that going to happen exactly? What steps have you taken? Have you filed? Are you sitting back waiting for your wife to do the work for you?

 

Also you have mentioned giving your wife another "chance" a couple of times as well. Lucky her that her husband who is proposing to another woman is considering giving her a "chance" to win the prize of you. Please just get an attorney and file already.

 

Well, for past month we had some relatives here from overseas who come every 10 years or so. Therefore, we agreed that we do not spoil their visit and we will file for divorce first thing they leave which should be in 10 days. My wife agrees with this. We are not hostile towards each other and both made some mistakes so we just feel things have come to an end.

 

You have misunderstood my talk about "chance". I only mentioned this to my MW at one point. By that time I felt that she is backing away and felt that she is buying herself time knowing that even if I divorce there is no other person around. At same time she was with her husband so I mentioned that I might give my wife chance in future if two of us finish. It was one of my last shots. I guess I wanted to make her jealous and to remove her safety net of knowing that she can have me whenever she wants. Looking back, I probably should not have said it but by this stage I saw that things are not going anywhere.

[heartdok]

She's a classic cake eater. I'd bet a paycheck she has never said a word to him about getting a divorce.

 

She did not say to him straightly "I want divorce". From what she told me, this conversation was about how they lost each other along the way, how both are unhappy, have little in common etc.

 

During our last meeting (the only after break up) she was open to reconciliation but said that he is leaving in 15 days and she cant do much. So I said to her "OK, we had problems, lets work on them for next three months until he gets back but tell him now that you want divorce like I said to my wife". She then went back to silence/hot and cold behaviour. Few days later we ended things and it has been silence ever since then.

[anne1707]

The MW has got you hanging on her every word or action at the moment. It really does sound to me that she does not want to leave her husband. However whether I am right or not in that, for now you cannot do anything about that. Instead what you can do is focus on how you deal with your marriage and if that is divorce then start that as a priority and work on getting this done as amicably as possible with your wife. Start building a new life for yourself and one which does not depend on the MW. If she really wants to be with you then she should act. If she does not then that tells you all you need to know.

[alexandria35]

I'm getting tired of reading through all the repetitive rhetoric that offers no support to find what has already been said. If any OW/OM here treated even one BS (hell even the ones that don't post here but that we know about personally) the way most of us get treated here daily, on OUR OWN BOARD we'd be practically burned at the stake. Over on infidelity it's apparently a free pass to take pot shots, yet that doesn't happen here very often and if you dare to say ONE thing that you can even back up you get jumped on, and you can be sure that the morality police are going to be over anyone that posts here just to make sure that you know you "done wrong"

Holy hell.. the guy is asking for support, not little digs about how you don't approve of his situation. If you knew how many relationships had been sealed with a token like a ring, or that actually become you'd probably be shocked right out of your little bubble of belief.

 

OP, I am so sorry you are hurting. It does sound as if she may be afraid to make a move. Sometimes the fear of the unknown is more than a person is willing to risk, it doesn't necessarilly mean that they weren't being truthful with you, it just means that they weren't strong enough to take a leap of faith. Sometimes love isn't enough.. and yes, sometimes they are just players, but that's not what this sounds like to me.

 

If you are planning on leaving your marriage, now might be a good time, it will help you to focus on what you want, lay your plans out for yourself for the future and begin to move forward. That may be what she needs to see, and if not, you are in a better position for you either way.

 

I wish you all the best.

 

Are you in a mood today? I only post my honest thoughts and opinions. I'm not going to make up some sappy bullsh*t that I don't even believe myself because it makes you feel better. We don't need you to approve our opinions. Please feel free to report any posts that you feel are in violation of the guidelines.

[Emme]

Heartdok, If you want the answers to the questions you seek... You need to go to her marital home (with the husband present) and ring her door bell. Start there.

[woinlove]

heartdok, marriage can be wonderful, but what you describe sounds like you would be setting yourself up for a second divorce - assuming you two carried through on your words, which also seems unlikely. An R where one person just disappears, you don't know what words of theirs to believe and what not to, is definitely not a good start for heading into M - not to mention that you are both still married to other people.

 

My advice would be to try to recognize the unhealthy signs that are already there, know that they are likely to get worse rather than better, and use that recognition to try to detach. Instead, focus on your current M and ending it in a respectful and honest way, including dropping the idea of trying to coordinate with MW and her H. That will leave you in a much better position should you ever chose to marry again.

Edited August 26, 2012 by woinlove

[heartdok]

heartdok, marriage can be wonderful, but what you describe sounds like you would be setting yourself up for a second divorce - assuming you two carried through on your words, which also seems unlikely. An R where one person just disappears, you don't know what words of theirs to believe and what not to, is definitely not a good start for heading into M - not to mention that you are both still married to other people.

 

My advice would be to try to recognize the unhealthy signs that are already there, know that they are likely to get worse rather than better, and use that recognition to try to detach. Instead, focus on your current M and ending it in a respectful and honest way, including dropping the idea of trying to coordinate with MW and her H. That will leave you in a much better position should you ever chose to marry again.

 

I am not blind to these signs. It's just that part of me believes her behaviour is caused with fear of uncertainty. Maybe I think this way because I am hurt and angry. I am angry at myself for turning my head for a long time from these 'signs' you mention. I am also hurt knowing that it was all false and she turned her back on us the moment I objected about something related to her husband (them going for a weekend together). But I feel it was normal to object that. And it is hard not being able to talk about it with anybody...

[woinlove]

I am not blind to these signs. It's just that part of me believes her behaviour is caused with fear of uncertainty. Maybe I think this way because I am hurt and angry. I am angry at myself for turning my head for a long time from these 'signs' you mention. I am also hurt knowing that it was all false and she turned her back on us the moment I objected about something related to her husband (them going for a weekend together). But I feel it was normal to object that. And it is hard not being able to talk about it with anybody...

 

I don't think it is fear of uncertainty. I don't think she respects you. Turning her back on you because you object to something, going silent, insisting you coordinate your divorce plans rather than trusting you to deal with it in the best way you can,... all this shows a lack of respect for you. Since she isn't respecting either you or her H, maybe she is too selfish to respect anyone. Your feelings of anger and hurt are not going to disappear soon, but if you strive to put your own life in order, deal with your M in a respectful way, that will help you feel more in control.

[heartdok]

Well, here is an update to my situation. For past month I've been in full NC with her. During this time sh sent me one message which I ignored. About week or so ago I noticed she changes her online statuses daily into something related to us. Our firm uses VoiP as means of communication so I cant block her

 

Two days ago, out of blue, she comes to my office. She was nervous, hands shaking, picking words. She asked if I hate her, do I avoid her etc. She also asked if she can ask me anything related to work in future. She also tried to get closer to me and touch me. I was just distant and indifferent. Said I am busy, that we will have to communicate over work issues and that's it. She seemed shocked with my indifference and left office. Minute later she returned to ask how I am so I said I am ok.

 

Yesterday, she calls for the first time in three months. It was to congratulate me over something. She threw in few compliments as well. I just said thanks and ended it. I also noticed last night that she set as her profile picture photo that has special meaning to both of us.

 

What does she want after all this time? She turned back on me and told me to move on and not to wait for her. I have moved on, indeed. She knows that I will not even consider talking to her unless she wants to be for real with me. Could it be that she is so selfish that she tries just to resume affair? I am not initiating any contact with her but would like to know why she broke silence

[heartdok]

Heartdok, ok, here it is: Stop playing games. Communication is key in relationships. You got what you wanted: She came to you, didn't she? Now it's time to be real. Tell her that you are divorcing your wife, now, because YOU want to and it's time. Tell her that you love her and that you want to be with her and marry her, AND that you will not continue on in an affair with her while she's married to her husband.

 

Ask her if she wants to marry you? If so, ask if she is divorcing her husband? If so, ask *when* is she divorcing her husband? Make your decisions to keep seeing her based on her answers. Do not continue sleeping with her until she has seperated from her husband and filed for divorce. If she won't answer you, tell her not to contact you until she has those answers, but in the mean time, you are moving on.

 

Don't do it by e-mail, phone or text. Have this conversation in person. Have it ASAP.

 

She knows I am divorcing. She also knows I love her. Things you mention were exact things I asked and said month ago in our last communication. Back then, she told me to live my life and not to wait for her. So why now? Why contacting me like this? The problem was always her reluctance to commit to relationship. She did contact me, true, but she did not mention anything about us.

 

I am so confused. On one hand I suspect she wants to continue affair which is not what I want. I want real relationship and marriage. On other hand, I suspect that by not mentioning relationship directly and giving these hints she wants me to approach. But this would leave her with all the power she had before and I dont want to go back to such relationship. I honestly dont know how to proceed and make her reveal her intentions. I am affraid that if I listen to your advice and ask her directly she would run away.

[heartdok]

Well here is an update. I met her tonight and we had long talk. I told her everything that was on my mind and told her that I want all or nothing. Her story was that she knows she hurt me, she tried to run from herself but realised she cant live without me. Then she said that she knows I cant trust her now because her husband is not here. She then offered me following. She suggests that we do not see each other for next three months and leave things as they are at the moment. In three months her husband returns home and she says she will leave him and then come to be with me.

 

I dont know guys. This seems like honest offer to me. What do you think?

[heartdok]

I think she's going to take the three months to find another AP who won't make demands.

 

When the three months are up, she'll either dump you or string you along even further with some crazy excuse as to why she can't leave.

 

You dont understand. She said, carry on with your life. I will leave him when he returns in three months time. If you are still interested and free to be with me I will look for you. So she is not making any demands. Maybe it is some sort of manipulation but what could she possibly get with this? If she wants to sit on two chairs wouldnt it be in her interest to make me continue affair now while she is alone?

[heartdok]

Over past days there have been some new developments. I discovered she took professional help over something that bothered me a lot. Also, she asked me other day to go with her and meet some of her friends. Day after she invited me to her place. This never happened before. Few days later she wanted to talk. She says that she cant wait and risk of loosing me. She wants to go to the place where her husband is at the moment and tell him she is leaving him. Also, she told me that this weekend she will tell her sister about us and that she leaves her husband. She then asked would I be willing to meet her sister after their conversation. During this talk I said that I was thinking of telling everything to my family (parents). She agreed and asked me if she could go with me and meet them.

 

Guys what do you think? This doesnt seem as cake eating to me.

[heartdok]

Things are pretty strange to me as well. She seems as if she is really determined this time. In the past,I was the one initiating the talk about us. Now, it is the opposite. I asked other day what is the reason. Her reply was that she tried to run away from me and from herself but realised there is no point. Also, when I walked away she realised for the first time she might actually loose me. She also says she spent half of life living as it suits others and now wants to be happy with me. Also, she says that she wants things to be sorted out as fast as possible and wants to regain my trust. It is totally what I did not expect, particularly as she is now showing me she wants to be with me while before it was only words.

[heartdok]

To clarify - when I say "good luck," I mean you're going to need it if this is the way she plans to handle the situation.

 

In any case, these new "developments" are a typical cake eater's desperate attempts to keep their cake. Most will say whatever they think you want to hear.

 

Well, weekend is in two days time. Her sister and her husband are very close so her telling to sister about us and introducing us to each other is one thing telling me that she might be serious this time.

[sad puppy]

Actions speak louder than words. Stand your ground. You have a long way to go here. I wouldn't involve my family until you really know what's going on or it will backfire on you. I wouldn't get too excited until you see some concrete behavior on her part. It's all just words right now. Keep reminding yourself of that, it's all just words right now. Good luck, you have a long way to go here.

[heartdok]

What has she shown you?

 

Well, she introduced me to one friend and did not hide what we are. We are in small town so she knows this will go around soonwr or later. Before everything had to be secret. She invited me to her home whereas before she never did. She wants me to go this weekend and meet her sister as a man she will marry. She also wants to go to tell her husband over next couple of weeks (he is at the moment on another end of world). I could be wrong but these seem pretty much concrete things to me. Not to mention I really notice in her behaviour she is not taking me for granted.

[sleepie]

I agree with Sad Puppy, in that actions speak louder than words.

 

My gut instinct as I've read this thread is that since her H is gone for 3 months and things are relatively "safe" for her, she wants to enjoy "playing house" with you. There is no guarantee that, when her husband returns, she will continue to want to be with you.

 

Or, if she's genuine about wanting to tell her family, etc., then maybe you are an exit affair for her.

 

Or, perhaps she's totally genuine and wants to be with you.

 

Only she knows for sure, and to reiterate, actions speak louder than words.

 

I can tell you that if you start involving family before she leaves her husband or before she gets a D, then things will get much messier much faster.

 

Take it slow and guard yourself.

[sleepie]

Well, she introduced me to one friend and did not hide what we are. We are in small town so she knows this will go around soonwr or later. Before everything had to be secret. She invited me to her home whereas before she never did. She wants me to go this weekend and meet her sister as a man she will marry. She also wants to go to tell her husband over next couple of weeks (he is at the moment on another end of world). I could be wrong but these seem pretty much concrete things to me. Not to mention I really notice in her behaviour she is not taking me for granted.

 

These are all good signs, and I so don't want to rain on your parade, but my xMOM did similar things to me. Wanted to keep it under wraps initially. Then, in the height of his "love" for me, he told his mom about me. Told his best friend about me. Introduced me to some of his co-workers as "his woman."

 

Then we went back underground.

 

He didn't leave his W. He didn't leave his M. He didn't want me in the end. (Although I can't say his not wanting me wasn't in part due to the fact that I was never going to leave my M.)

 

Just saying.

[heartdok]

Well, she introduced me to one friend and did not hide what we are. We are in small town so she knows this will go around soonwr or later. Before everything had to be secret. She invited me to her home whereas before she never did. She wants me to go this weekend and meet her sister as a man she will marry. She also wants to go to tell her husband over next couple of weeks (he is at the moment on another end of world). I could be wrong but these seem pretty much concrete things to me. Not to mention I really notice in her behaviour she is not taking me for granted.

 

These are all good signs, and I so don't want to rain on your parade, but my xMOM did similar things to me. Wanted to keep it under wraps initially. Then, in the height of his "love" for me, he told his mom about me. Told his best friend about me. Introduced me to some of his co-workers as "his woman."

 

Then we went back underground.

 

He didn't leave his W. He didn't leave his M. He didn't want me in the end. (Although I can't say his not wanting me wasn't in part due to the fact that I was never going to leave my M.)

 

Just saying.

 

I am aware of all dangers. That is why I am still staying somewhat distant. She often says how I have built walls around me and that she understands it. Other day she told me 'I talked so much in the past but all I did was hurt you. It took me some time to realise it. Now, all I want is to show you' She did, however, ask whether I think I will ever be able to trust her again. I just said 'I hope so'.

[heartdok]

Dont get me wrong, but I am pretty sure that I am not the only man who said to his OW 'let's leave our partners and get married'. So I dont find it that creepy. Also, I dont see what's wrong with me meeting her family. If anything, I wanted her to commit and get real with me. Her opening to family and introducing me to them and telling them that she wants to marry me is definitely step forward in my eyes. People often say actions speak louder than words. When I said that I am staying distant I meant I am not opening myself but am willing to give het a chance to prove to me that this time she really means business and is determined to make 'us' work.

[scatterd]

OK so you say you love OW. Why have you not shown her by telling your wife. You are not even divorced and you are proposing. What about your wife dint you think she deserves better? Both you and this OW are making all these plans behind your spouses back. Is your wife your back up plan? This OW has probably seen how you are doing your wife and questioning if this would be her someday. Have you thought about that also? She is doing the same as you are but she maybe analyzing things and thinking about how this could end up. Don't wait until she introduces you to her family suprise her and let your family know first.

[heartdok]

I no longer live with my wife and divorce is under way. Yes, we are making plans behind our spouses back but dont most people in affairs start making plans before divorce? As far as my family is concerned I have no problem with telling them and no, I am not using wife as back up plan.