M30USA Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I don't believe in "believing". Nothing could make me start believing. There would be no civilization like we have if the constants of physics and nature were routinely being suspended for divine intervention--no one would persevere through anything--they'd either just start praying when the going gets tough or develop a fatalistic attitude when other people keep getting their prayers answered and not them. Think about it and ask yourself serious questions about what would happen or not happen if everything really depended on personal divine intervention. Based on your comments, I strongly suggest the book "Miracles" by C.S. Lewis. He discusses how miracles, contrary to popular understanding, do not break God's natural laws--rather they are achieved through them. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 hmmmm ... Frisky, are you then positively rooted in the camp that says faith and science are mutually exclusive? Because they must be? Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 He is both loving and fearful. The problem is that we humans view the two as a contradiction because our logic set cannot reconcile both. I'm a human (honest) and I have no problem reconciling the two words. As with many words when you translate from Greek and Hebrew the words have more than one meaning. The positive meaning will always relate to God and the negative relates to the flawed human. Fear when pertaining to God is to respect. Fear pertaining to the human is a negative because it can cripple us causing us to lose faith. God being a jealous God (positive connotation) longs for us, desires for us to be faithful. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Robert Z Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 Hello Robert Z, Cool thread! Hello BetheButterfly. Glad you like it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'm a human (honest) and I have no problem reconciling the two words. As with many words when you translate from Greek and Hebrew the words have more than one meaning. The positive meaning will always relate to God and the negative relates to the flawed human. Fear when pertaining to God is to respect. Fear pertaining to the human is a negative because it can cripple us causing us to lose faith. God being a jealous God (positive connotation) longs for us, desires for us to be faithful. Sounds like you haven't read the book of Lamentations. Please read it in entirety and then tell me if you still have the same opinion. (I don't think I've ever heard Lamentations quoted in a single church. Doesn't exactly draw crowds.) Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm a human (honest) Aren't we all? and I have no problem reconciling the two words. As with many words when you translate from Greek and Hebrew the words have more than one meaning. The positive meaning will always relate to God and the negative relates to the flawed human. That is a very clear way to explain, thanks! Fear when pertaining to God is to respect Agreed, as well as awe at God's amazing differences from humans Fear pertaining to the human is a negative because it can cripple us causing us to lose faith. !00% agreed God being a jealous God (positive connotation) longs for us, desires for us to be faithful. Amen! That's exactly what I felt. I didn't feel scared like i was going to die, but rather like God loves me so much He longs for me and desires me to be His. I did not at all feel like He hated me or was jealous of me or of anyone. Thanks for explaining it so eloquently. God has given you great talent with words!!! Peace and God bless you 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 To all who are commenting on the definition of "fear God", please use Scriptural references. Nothing personal, but I don't listen to personal opinions because I know how faulty and corrupt the human heart and mind is. I am definitely not an "experiential" Christian. So, while I'm still acknowledging that you could be right, I would prefer if you stick to Scripture and minimize opinion. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No. I don't feel compelled to convince you to think, feel or believe any other way than you do. It's not my place. My mistake was in quoting you, I apologize. I hope I didn't offend you. -------- *BetheButterfly* I just love you! May Many many blessings come your way! Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 No. I don't feel compelled to convince you to think, feel or believe any other way than you do. It's not my place. My mistake was in quoting you, I apologize. I hope I didn't offend you. -------- *BetheButterfly* I just love you! May Many many blessings come your way! Why would I get offended? That's the upside to falling back on Scripture in every debate. It's less about me and more about Scripture. Even if there is interpretation involved, it's still not about me but about Scripture. It's been said that when the Catholic Church knocked on Martin Luther's door, he responded by saying like, "Martin Luther doesn't live here, only Jesus Christ lives here." Wow, what a statement. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I don't debate. It's just not me. If my words touch another or they feel a connection, I'm blessed. If not, I'm still blessed. Here's a quote I love. “When you find peace within yourself, you become the kind of person who can live at peace with others.” Peace Pilgrim 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Here's a quote I love. “When you find peace within yourself, you become the kind of person who can live at peace with others.” Peace Pilgrim Nice quote. Gosh, that would explain why a lot of people are so damn nasty. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HisGraceisSufficient Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 What life experience is the single biggest driver of your faith? Is it the sense of the spirit in your life, a ring of truth when you hear the gospels, a particular transformative religious experience, or something else? Next, why do you accept this as truth? Why do you believe what you experience is real and not just a trick of the mind? The life experience of committing adultery and losing my job, home and nearly my marriage was the catalyst of my faith. On June 2, I experienced waves of peace washing over me and I knew, then, that God has finally entered into my soul. Finally! What a joyous moment!! For much of my early adulthood, I was an agnostic and a very reluctant and stubborn individual against religion. Psychology, aka: self help, was my savior but it failed me. Not right away. But, over time...slowly, after many years, I was left with destruction and nearly lost it all. I justified adultery, in part, having no accountability to God but only investing in the self, in which I lost. Life hasn't been the same since but what a blessing! Without such loss, I would have never gained so much. I found a new job that was much better than the last. I have returned home and my husband and I are working on our marriage. I believe these were given to me only because, for 3 months of being separated, I diligently sought God every day. "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Matthew 6:33 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 The life experience of committing adultery and losing my job, home and nearly my marriage was the catalyst of my faith. On June 2, I experienced waves of peace washing over me and I knew, then, that God has finally entered into my soul. Finally! What a joyous moment!! For much of my early adulthood, I was an agnostic and a very reluctant and stubborn individual against religion. Psychology, aka: self help, was my savior but it failed me. Not right away. But, over time...slowly, after many years, I was left with destruction and nearly lost it all. I justified adultery, in part, having no accountability to God but only investing in the self, in which I lost. Life hasn't been the same since but what a blessing! Without such loss, I would have never gained so much. I found a new job that was much better than the last. I have returned home and my husband and I are working on our marriage. I believe these were given to me only because, for 3 months of being separated, I diligently sought God every day. "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Matthew 6:33 Amazing testimony! Thank you for sharing! The verse really resonates with me. Life is beautiful. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Eve Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 What life experience is the single biggest driver of your faith? ]Is it the sense of the spirit in your life, a ring of truth when you hear the gospels, a particular transformative religious experience, or something else? I received a gift from God when I needed it.. the item appeared in my hallway. I was alone in the house at the time. I was given a vision of eternity when I was pregnant with my second daughter which remains with me. The night I received the Holy Spirit. I have been part of someone being healed off cancer. The cancer has not returned in 18 years; I felt a jolt of light pass through me when I prayed and the childs cancer did not return. Insight. I get told things audibly also. This has been the case since early childhood. I was plagued by evil spirits for a while. This is the primary reason I became convinced about Christ for when I called on His name, the spirits left. A general awareness of the presence of spirits. Day to day I would say that I am connected to God by prayer and this is sufficient enough above all the bigger stuff I just mentioned. Next, why do you accept this as truth? I was able to wear the item given and the vision was different from being in a dream state. I always say that 'the truth is above us all'. All of my experiences have been above myself. Why do you believe what you experience is real and not just a trick of the mind? There is a syncronicity to the experiences; they have not been isolated experiences. I do not have any mental health disorders. I went and got myself checked out, lol. Take care, Eve x 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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