Is relationship and sex is 'something' that men 'get' from a woman /she gives

[somedude81]

In my opinion, damn right it is.

 

If men have to work to attract women, and women determine if relationships and sex happen, how can it be seen any other way?

[fortyninethousand322]

Sort of, but along a similar vein, commitment/relationships are what men give and women "get". It's a reciprocal thing.

[somedude81]

Do men really have a problem with commitment and relationships with women?

 

That's always seemed like a major stereotype. Frankly, it only seems to apply to playboys.

[mesmerized]

It's obvious that you have little to no experience. Women only decide when/if sex happens, men are quite often the ones who decide when/if a relationship happens.

[Els]

Do you really think that women don't have to do anything at all to make themselves attractive to men? They don't do the same things as men, granted, but it is still 'work to attract people', either way. Have you not met ANY women at all whom you would not want a relationship or even casual sex with? What would you advise a woman who says that she can't get any men because she is overweight/plain-faced/dresses down/introverted/etc?

[fortyninethousand322]

Yeah one thing I will have to say SD is you've got to stop genderizing this thing. You've having problems because you have unique issues that would effect you whether you were a man or a woman. Dating is not easy for either sex, but it is easier for the vast majority of people in comparison to you.

[Thieves]

The first post is something so simple yet is probably the most unnattractive thing I've read in a while.

 

I'd literally recoil away from any man who truly thinks sex is something a man 'gets' from a woman, rather than something both people decide to do with each other (just as a commitment/relationship is). By saying this, IMHO, one is practically saying that the man is stripping the woman of something or taking away something from the woman in question. What, exactly though, is being taken away or 'gotten' if the sex is consensual?

 

Sex is not something, again IMHO, that one gender 'gets' over the other. If consensual, both persons are getting something from each other.

 

...Honestly, I think the term 'getting sex' from a woman sounds very crude as to me it kind of implies that the person had to through a lot of trouble and extra convincing in order to achieve it, which is a little off-putting. It also makes me think sometimes of more extreme cases, such as rape or non-consensual sex. 'Taking' something that was not necessarily reciprocated.

 

You don't get sex. You have sex.

[johan]

Somedude, maybe you think of women only as receptacles that need to open themselves up so you can plug in and please yourself. I don't remember you ever saying anything about wanting to actually enjoy time talking to a woman, getting to know her, make her laugh, etc. Maybe it's because you have so little faith in your own personality that you don't even consider those things in the realm of possibility.

 

I think your lack of personality is mostly the result of your obsessing about women all the time. You don't have many other thoughts or interests rattling around in there, at least from what I can tell. That doesn't make you a very good dinner companion. When you are sitting across the table from a woman, you really must have it in your head that she is more than what is between her legs. You have to engage with her mind and her emotions as well.

 

This is probably the explanation for why you are perpetually single. Because there are fundamental connections you can't make, due to your general attitude toward women. They find it hard to see what you have to offer besides your d*ck. They need a lot more than that. Honestly, even to spend one night with you they need more than that.

 

I think the average guy gives as much as he gets in bed and in a relationship. Guys try hard to please their women in bed and in life. The giving goes both ways.

Edited August 27, 2012 by johan

[fortyninethousand322]

I wonder how close they are from inventing truly realistic and fully programmable robots (or maybe even human clones) for people who do truly want nothing more than a "receptacle". Not saying that's what SD wants but just a general thought (and I'm not necessarily in favor of either thing).

[reallyhotguy]

Duh somedude, sex (yes, "sex") is property initially owned by a woman, which can only be transferred to a man via binding agreement ("intercourse"), or at least this is how it has been upheld thus far in the US Supreme Court (as of Jane Doe v US), though most likely these days you'll end up in arbitration if you try to bring—man, ain't you up on your appellate law?

[mesmerized]

Maybe in SD's case he really has nothing to "give".

[fortyninethousand322]

Maybe in SD's case he really has nothing to "give".

 

Which is the case for many of the (mostly male) posters on here who are part of the incel bandwagon.

[rocketman122]

It's obvious that you have little to no experience. Women only decide when/if sex happens, men are quite often the ones who decide when/if a relationship happens.

 

 

in terms of sex, sorry, but I have to disagree. on the whole, yes, but its not what I experienced. if you look good then the ball is in your court. male or female.

[somedude81]

It's obvious that you have little to no experience. Women only decide when/if sex happens, men are quite often the ones who decide when/if a relationship happens.

Uh, haven't you been paying attention? I have zero experience.

 

Nothing beyond spending time with female friends I wish I could be more with.

 

I have no idea how you can say that men are the ones who "decide when/if a relationship happens", I've wanted to be in a relationship with plenty of girls and they all said no. I didn't decide anything.

Do you really think that women don't have to do anything at all to make themselves attractive to men?

What women have to do isn't the point of this thread.

 

They don't do the same things as men, granted, but it is still 'work to attract people', either way. Have you not met ANY women at all whom you would not want a relationship or even casual sex with? What would you advise a woman who says that she can't get any men because she is overweight/plain-faced/dresses down/introverted/etc?

No, I don't meet many girls in my age range that I wouldn't want to get to know better. Of the girls I meet that I know I will have no interest in, the vast majority are overweight. What would I advise them? The answer is plain as day.

Yeah one thing I will have to say SD is you've got to stop genderizing this thing. You've having problems because you have unique issues that would effect you whether you were a man or a woman. Dating is not easy for either sex, but it is easier for the vast majority of people in comparison to you.

Dude, if either you or I were women, we'd have no problems with dating/relationships at all.

 

I take it you're a decent looking guy and you're not fat. Also I don't think you're super shy or have some social anxiety disorder. The same can be said of myself.

 

No, my "unique issues" wouldn't mean sh*t if I were female. And neither would yours.

The first post is something so simple yet is probably the most unnattractive thing I've read in a while.

 

I'd literally recoil away from any man who truly thinks sex is something a man 'gets' from a woman, rather than something both people decide to do with each other (just as a commitment/relationship is). By saying this, IMHO, one is practically saying that the man is stripping the woman of something or taking away something from the woman in question. What, exactly though, is being taken away or 'gotten' if the sex is consensual?

 

Sex is not something, again IMHO, that one gender 'gets' over the other. If consensual, both persons are getting something from each other.

 

...Honestly, I think the term 'getting sex' from a woman sounds very crude as to me it kind of implies that the person had to through a lot of trouble and extra convincing in order to achieve it, which is a little off-putting. It also makes me think sometimes of more extreme cases, such as rape or non-consensual sex. 'Taking' something that was not necessarily reciprocated.

 

You don't get sex. You have sex.

Wow, several paragraphs over the word get.

 

If you notice in the title, I also wrote "she gives." And no, nothing is lost or taken.

 

As for the word get, you may not be aware but the term "Get laid" is pretty common. So is wanting to get a girlfriend. it doesn't actually imply that anything is taken from the girl.

Somedude, maybe you think of women only as receptacles that need to open themselves up so you can plug in and please yourself. I don't remember you ever saying anything about wanting to actually enjoy time talking to a woman, getting to know her, make her laugh, etc.

I don't think you fallow that many of my threads but if you had, you'd know that " enjoy time talking to a woman, getting to know her, make her laugh, etc" is all I've ever done with women. What I haven't done is anything intimate.

 

Tell me johan, would you be satisfied if you never got to experience intimacy with a woman and all your ever allowed to do is talk to them, get to know her and make her laugh.

 

I think your lack of personality

This coming from a robot.

 

You know nothing of my personality.

 

Considering how little I insult people on this forum compared to you, mine is better than yours.

Maybe in SD's case he really has nothing to "give".

And what do you have to give besides the obvious?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Have you not met ANY women at all whom you would not want a relationship or even casual sex with? What would you advise a woman who says that she can't get any men because she is overweight/plain-faced/dresses down/introverted/etc?

 

I think, if I recall correctly, such women "don't count."

 

And surely you remember the many and specific characteristics that are required by sd in order to render a woman suitable for the privilege he is ready to offer … of receiving her sexual favors.

 

Somedude, since maybe you are not being deliberately obtuse, I'll spell it out for you:

 

Millions of women are rejected by men who they want a relationship with; it happens all the time. Don't you read LoveShack?

[reallyhotguy]

Considering how little I insult people on this forum compared to you, mine is better than yours.

 

What! The almighty robot rarely has a mean word for anyone. And anyway, to be insulted by johan is an honor, also because it is so rare.

 

You see the world pretty differently there, somedude. I would be fascinated to see a "Day in the life of Somedude". You should make a mini-documentary and throw it up on youtube. I'm not even kidding, you can make it with your cell phone and I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

[mesmerized]

in terms of sex, sorry, but I have to disagree. on the whole, yes, but its not what I experienced. if you look good then the ball is in your court. male or female.

 

In case of the more desirable men, they don't really have to convince a woman to sleep with them, so I agree with you.

 

I have no idea how you can say that men are the ones who "decide when/if a relationship happens", I've wanted to be in a relationship with plenty of girls and they all said no. I didn't decide anything.

 

not ALL men. There are women too who can't get sex or even a second look from men they like.

 

And what do you have to give besides the obvious?

 

Enough that I don't think a man is "giving" me love and sex and that I'm the only one who benefits from it.

[Els]

What women have to do isn't the point of this thread.

 

It very much is. If BOTH of you are doing things to attract the opposite sex, then it is a mutual effort, which answers your question of: 'If men have to work to attract women... how can it be seen any other way?'

 

No, I don't meet many girls in my age range that I wouldn't want to get to know better. Of the girls I meet that I know I will have no interest in, the vast majority are overweight. What would I advise them? The answer is plain as day.

 

Precisely, which answers the second part of your question: '...and (if) women determine if relationships and sex happen, how can it be seen any other way?'

 

FWIW, most men who are successful in relationships have criteria of their own as well, and don't want every non-overweight women they see to be their gf. There are women who take whatever they can get as well, within criteria similar to your own (non-overweight, etc), so some of them might also construe a relationship as something they 'get' from a man. That isn't a terribly healthy way to approach Rs either.

[johan]

I don't think you fallow that many of my threads but if you had, you'd know that " enjoy time talking to a woman, getting to know her, make her laugh, etc" is all I've ever done with women. What I haven't done is anything intimate.

 

Tell me johan, would you be satisfied if you never got to experience intimacy with a woman and all your ever allowed to do is talk to them, get to know her and make her laugh.

 

This coming from a robot.

 

You know nothing of my personality.

 

Considering how little I insult people on this forum compared to you, mine is better than yours.

 

I know lots about your personality, because you reveal it here on LS. I've read pretty much every one of your threads.

 

And if I was trying to insult you, it would be completely different from what you've read from me today. It would be unmistakable.

 

So Mr. Personality, it tends to be true that if you can get close to women in real life, then you can pretty easily develop female friends on the internet in places you frequent, like LS. Why don't you make some women friends on LS?

 

What I've expressed toward you today has not really been helpful though, I admit. That's mostly because I have read enough of your threads and posts to understand that you can't be helped by anyone on LS. I've given you my best advice in the past, out of a real desire to help (because I do date occasionally, and even get women into bed, so I know what is involved). But my advice and everyone else's has been discounted, ignored outright, and certainly has proven to be useless. You never said thanks to anyone that I recall. Because you don't appreciate their effort when they are wrong, and you think everyone is wrong.

 

I personally believe that your barriers are constructed by you and can only be taken down by you. When you're ready. In the meantime, I suggest you continue to engage with women, get to know them, make them laugh. Forget sex. I suggest you do it here on LS. Start being more than Eeyore. Have a sense of humor. Show you have an upside. As an experiment. Just forget your missing sex life. One thing we can agree on is everything else you've tried hasn't worked.

[fortyninethousand322]

My suggestion to you SD is this: finish your education, get a really good job then go find somewhere where women frequent and flash some money around. Eventually a woman will be interested. She'll be interested much more in your money than you personally, but at least you might get some sex.

[reallyhotguy]

finish your education

 

Hey somedude, why isn't this the thing you think about all the time, rather than sex? Doesn't it feel aggravating to have been in school for this long? How come you never talk about this on LS?

 

I don't mean to derail, it just always struck me as odd that this clear obstacle in your life never gets much mention, whereas you discuss the sex thing ad nauseum.

[jobaba]

Which is the case for many of the (mostly male) posters on here who are part of the incel bandwagon.

 

I vehemently disagree with this statement.

 

There are plenty of men who have plenty to offer in terms of kindness, humor, intelligence, and interesting conversation, and who would be a very inspirational partner to a member of the opposite sex who struggle mightily with dating.

 

On the other hand, there are bossy, opinionated, vacuous, shallow men who excel at putting down other people who have never had any problems attracting like minded partners and also kinder, gentler women.

 

SD...

 

You really have to learn to like yourself. Don't listen to the people who say that you can't get women because you have nothing to offer them. Don't tie your self worth to women or people's opinions of you. Success with women (as a whole) is tied to a number of external and artificially emotional factors that are way shallower than personal connection. If you continue to tie your self worth to your success with women, you will end up miserable and won't be able to accomplish much in life.

 

Be who you want to be and if you appreciate that person, and women don't, then so be it. Don't ever change yourself fundamentally for the purpose of getting women to like you. Go out and make friends. Make yourself a good person and be proud of who you are whether it leads to success with women or not.

[fortyninethousand322]

I vehemently disagree with this statement.

 

There are plenty of men who have plenty to offer in terms of kindness, humor, intelligence, and interesting conversation, and who would be a very inspirational partner to a member of the opposite sex who struggle mightily with dating.

 

On the other hand, there are bossy, opinionated, vacuous, shallow men who excel at putting down other people who have never had any problems attracting like minded partners and also kinder, gentler women.

 

You misunderstand me. It's not that they have nothing to offer, it's that what they have to offer nobody seems to want.

[fortyninethousand322]

I know lots about your personality, because you reveal it here on LS. I've read pretty much every one of your threads.

 

And if I was trying to insult you, it would be completely different from what you've read from me today. It would be unmistakable.

 

So Mr. Personality, it tends to be true that if you can get close to women in real life, then you can pretty easily develop female friends on the internet in places you frequent, like LS. Why don't you make some women friends on LS?

 

What I've expressed toward you today has not really been helpful though, I admit. That's mostly because I have read enough of your threads and posts to understand that you can't be helped by anyone on LS. I've given you my best advice in the past, out of a real desire to help (because I do date occasionally, and even get women into bed, so I know what is involved). But my advice and everyone else's has been discounted, ignored outright, and certainly has proven to be useless. You never said thanks to anyone that I recall. Because you don't appreciate their effort when they are wrong, and you think everyone is wrong.

 

I personally believe that your barriers are constructed by you and can only be taken down by you. When you're ready. In the meantime, I suggest you continue to engage with women, get to know them, make them laugh. Forget sex. I suggest you do it here on LS. Start being more than Eeyore. Have a sense of humor. Show you have an upside. As an experiment. Just forget your missing sex life. One thing we can agree on is everything else you've tried hasn't worked.

 

Why do you or any of the other annoyed types even bother posting in his threads then (other than for purposes of mockery and derision)?

 

Just leave well enough alone if that's how you feel.

[sweetheart5381]

As a person, I have to say that this thread is laden with gender stereotypes (imo, the biggest wall between the sexes in this day and age are stereotypes, roles, etc). Equality is key. When we stop viewing gender differences and start seeing similarities it is far easier to come to a win-win outcome.

 

Women do not "give" sex, hoping or expecting a ring on their finger. Women share their sexuality with a man that they feel knows and respects them. Sex to a woman is simply an extension of a trusting bond with someone that you desire physically and/or emotionally and/or spiritually. It is growth in a healthy relationship.

 

Imo, men are the same. Women and men both have the same human needs (see Maslow's needs hierarchy). The only exception is the emotionally unavailable man/woman that may go so low as to pretend to respect and adore a woman/man while only considering their own needs. They lack social and relational coherence. They lack maturity... a basic human need for survival.

 

These are "players", attempting to fulfill lower level individual needs like self-love and acceptance while being oblivious to the damage they inflict upon others. Unfortunately, these folks end up very lonely and sad when they are played by similar individuals, but that is what it takes sometimes to learn lessons