Is relationship and sex is 'something' that men 'get' from a woman /she gives

[StillReigning]

I take it you're a decent looking guy and you're not fat. Also I don't think you're super shy or have some social anxiety disorder. The same can be said of myself

 

 

When are you going to understand that men and women don't work the same way in terms of attraction?

 

 

Women's are the one being approached, men are ones who do the approach. Being a decent looking man who is not fat means absolutely nothing if you don't have the confidence to consistently make quality approaches and make that connection with women. Yes women who don't have the confidence to make quality approaches can still get men because it's not their responsibility to walk up to me and impress them

 

 

Those overweight women you talk about who you don't care for at all, well that's the female equivalent of you because women are still primarily judged on appearance while men are primarily judged on their ability to approach and make a woman feel positive emotions

[somedude81]

What! The almighty robot rarely has a mean word for anyone. And anyway, to be insulted by johan is an honor, also because it is so rare.

 

You see the world pretty differently there, somedude. I would be fascinated to see a "Day in the life of Somedude". You should make a mini-documentary and throw it up on youtube. I'm not even kidding, you can make it with your cell phone and I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

Heh, I've thought about having my life as some sort of reality show, with everything I do being recorded. But unless there was some gimmick, it would be boring as hell to watch.

In case of the more desirable men, they don't really have to convince a woman to sleep with them, so I agree with you.

 

 

 

not ALL men. There are women too who can't get sex or even a second look from men they like.

I'd be more interested in the type of men they're after. My guess it's some dude out of her league.

 

Enough that I don't think a man is "giving" me love and sex and that I'm the only one who benefits from it.

And how'd you come to the conclusion that I think a girl giving me sex wouldn't benefit from it?

It very much is. If BOTH of you are doing things to attract the opposite sex, then it is a mutual effort, which answers your question of: 'If men have to work to attract women... how can it be seen any other way?'

As I've said in other threads, women don't actually have to do half the things they do to attract men.

 

Designer clothes, expensive perfume, best quality makeup etc, men don't care about that stuff.

 

It's been said before that women do such thing to compete against other women. And not to win men, it's just to be The Next Top Broad.

 

 

FWIW, most men who are successful in relationships have criteria of their own as well, and don't want every non-overweight women they see to be their gf.

I wouldn't know.

 

There are women who take whatever they can get as well, within criteria similar to your own (non-overweight, etc), so some of them might also construe a relationship as something they 'get' from a man.

I've never met a woman like that. And even the girls who "struggle" on this forum, have standards, and do a lot better than many men.

I know lots about your personality, because you reveal it here on LS. I've read pretty much every one of your threads.

 

And if I was trying to insult you, it would be completely different from what you've read from me today. It would be unmistakable.

Frankly, every time I've seen a post from you directed at me, it's always been something rude.

So Mr. Personality, it tends to be true that if you can get close to women in real life, then you can pretty easily develop female friends on the internet in places you frequent, like LS. Why don't you make some women friends on LS?

Simple, I have no interest. I just don't want platonic female friends.

 

Well let me back up.

 

I have one female friend on LS that I talk to semi-regularly. She's super cool and has helped me a lot.

 

There are other women here I talk to but it's just really casual and not that frequent.

 

My biggest problem is that I easily develop feelings for women I interact a lot with. So I purposefully maintain a distance.

What I've expressed toward you today has not really been helpful though, I admit. That's mostly because I have read enough of your threads and posts to understand that you can't be helped by anyone on LS. I've given you my best advice in the past, out of a real desire to help (because I do date occasionally, and even get women into bed, so I know what is involved). But my advice and everyone else's has been discounted, ignored outright, and certainly has proven to be useless. You never said thanks to anyone that I recall. Because you don't appreciate their effort when they are wrong, and you think everyone is wrong.

Your recollection of me never thanking anybody is wrong.

 

And sorry, I don't remember you giving me any advice. Last time must have been a few years ago.

I personally believe that your barriers are constructed by you and can only be taken down by you. When you're ready. In the meantime, I suggest you continue to engage with women, get to know them, make them laugh. Forget sex. I suggest you do it here on LS. Start being more than Eeyore. Have a sense of humor. Show you have an upside. As an experiment. Just forget your missing sex life. One thing we can agree on is everything else you've tried hasn't worked.

Telling me to show and upside and have a sense of humor proves that there have been many of my posts that you haven't seen.

Hey somedude, why isn't this the thing you think about all the time, rather than sex? Doesn't it feel aggravating to have been in school for this long? How come you never talk about this on LS?

 

I don't mean to derail, it just always struck me as odd that this clear obstacle in your life never gets much mention, whereas you discuss the sex thing ad nauseum.

Because the forum isn't called SchoolShack.org

 

BTW, I have talked about my school worries a few times. Hell, I made a post about it yesterday. Check the mood thread.

I vehemently disagree with this statement.

 

There are plenty of men who have plenty to offer in terms of kindness, humor, intelligence, and interesting conversation, and who would be a very inspirational partner to a member of the opposite sex who struggle mightily with dating.

 

On the other hand, there are bossy, opinionated, vacuous, shallow men who excel at putting down other people who have never had any problems attracting like minded partners and also kinder, gentler women.

Exactly, there is no shortage of dirtbags that get way more than their fair share of women.

SD...

 

You really have to learn to like yourself. Don't listen to the people who say that you can't get women because you have nothing to offer them.

Most people who say that are nothing more than to trolls to me so I just ignore them, and report when they go to far.

 

 

 

Don't tie your self worth to women or people's opinions of you. Success with women (as a whole) is tied to a number of external and artificially emotional factors that are way shallower than personal connection. If you continue to tie your self worth to your success with women, you will end up miserable and won't be able to accomplish much in life.

This I know.

 

I've failed quite a few times in life because I let a woman affect my self worth.

Be who you want to be and if you appreciate that person, and women don't, then so be it. Don't ever change yourself fundamentally for the purpose of getting women to like you. Go out and make friends. Make yourself a good person and be proud of who you are whether it leads to success with women or not.

Advice sounds nice, but it's too "feel good" for me.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Why do you or any of the other annoyed types even bother posting in his threads then (other than for purposes of mockery and derision)?

 

Just leave well enough alone if that's how you feel.

 

Well, speaking as one of the "annoyed types," most of us have spent a lot of time trying to reach out and communicate with sd, only to have our efforts dismissed, and often very rudely.

 

Past threads aside, though, this one is highly worthy of annoyance, disagreement or even derision. Once again, the "reality" of a person's existence if they happen to be female is completely deniied in favor of some ridiculous and self serving fantasy.

 

Grrr.

[StillReigning]

OP I wish you could read your own posts from an outside perspective

 

 

You come across as terribly insecure and desperately seeking validation from women. This makes it impossible to be a quality conversationalist and you're never going to get a girl until you become comfortable with yourself and can consistently have quality conversations

 

 

People don't want to spend time with people who are not fun to be around with

[somedude81]

As a person, I have to say that this thread is laden with gender stereotypes (imo, the biggest wall between the sexes in this day and age are stereotypes, roles, etc). Equality is key. When we stop viewing gender differences and start seeing similarities it is far easier to come to a win-win outcome.

 

Women do not "give" sex, hoping or expecting a ring on their finger. Women share their sexuality with a man that they feel knows and respects them. Sex to a woman is simply an extension of a trusting bond with someone that you desire physically and/or emotionally and/or spiritually. It is growth in a healthy relationship.

Knowing and respecting a woman is nowhere near enough to sleep with a woman, and in many cases, it doesn't seem to be required at all.

 

IMO, women give sex to men that they desire. Whether the woman expects anything in return depends on who she is.

 

 

Imo, men are the same. Women and men both have the same human needs (see Maslow's needs hierarchy). The only exception is the emotionally unavailable man/woman that may go so low as to pretend to respect and adore a woman/man while only considering their own needs. They lack social and relational coherence. They lack maturity... a basic human need for survival.

 

These are "players", attempting to fulfill lower level individual needs like self-love and acceptance while being oblivious to the damage they inflict upon others. Unfortunately, these folks end up very lonely and sad when they are played by similar individuals, but that is what it takes sometimes to learn lessons

Frankly, I'd rather be a player than what I am now. It surely can't be any worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

When are you going to understand that men and women don't work the same way in terms of attraction?

 

 

Women's are the one being approached, men are ones who do the approach. Being a decent looking man who is not fat means absolutely nothing if you don't have the confidence to consistently make quality approaches and make that connection with women. Yes women who don't have the confidence to make quality approaches can still get men because it's not their responsibility to walk up to me and impress them

Uh, in that post you quoted, I was talking about if I were a woman. Being a woman with all the qualities I listed and not much more is enough to do fine in the dating game. I know men are judged on more.

 

Those overweight women you talk about who you don't care for at all, well that's the female equivalent of you because women are still primarily judged on appearance while men are primarily judged on their ability to approach and make a woman feel positive emotions

Don't even try to tell me that men aren't judged on their appearance.

 

Frankly, with some exceptions, I believe that women are more picky about looks than men are.

 

Thankfully, things like an awesome personality, great sense of humor, rock solid confidence, can overcome such deal breakers as a man being under 5'10.

[fortyninethousand322]

Well, speaking as one of the "annoyed types," most of us have spent a lot of time trying to reach out and communicate with sd, only to have our efforts dismissed, and often very rudely.

 

Well, TFB. You're not entitled to have your advice be well received. Sorry, just how it is.

 

Past threads aside, though, this one is highly worthy of annoyance, disagreement or even derision. Once again, the "reality" of a person's existence if they happen to be female is completely deniied in favor of some ridiculous and self serving fantasy.

 

Grrr.

 

Maybe. But then again you've never walked a mile (or even 3 feet) in SD's shoes so who knows.

 

It just perplexes me. Clearly his threads bother you and yet here we are. I know if something like that bothered me, I would just avoid it. Might make life happier that way you know?

 

Worst case scenario is your right and SD is just a hateful miscreant and he ends up dating some girl and treats her really badly (not physical abuse or anything like that, he just up being a jerk or something). I don't think the world is really going to go off its axis because of that. It's just not a big deal, so why get worked up over it?

[somedude81]

OP I wish you could read your own posts from an outside perspective

 

 

You come across as terribly insecure and desperately seeking validation from women. This makes it impossible to be a quality conversationalist and you're never going to get a girl until you become comfortable with yourself and can consistently have quality conversations

 

 

People don't want to spend time with people who are not fun to be around with

Yes, whenever I'm with a girl we do nothing but stare at each other. Her watching me watch her boobs. I giggle when they bounce.

Well, speaking as one of the "annoyed types," most of us have spent a lot of time trying to reach out and communicate with sd, only to have our efforts dismissed, and often very rudely.

 

Past threads aside, though, this one is highly worthy of annoyance, disagreement or even derision. Once again, the "reality" of a person's existence if they happen to be female is completely deniied in favor of some ridiculous and self serving fantasy.

 

Grrr.

You know what would be great?

 

Putting me on ignore and never coming into a thread I post.

 

Why not give a try.

[2sunny]

Your attitude and perspective of women is completely off putting and distasteful.

 

Work on healthy balance = then neither person feels they are giving or receiving anything thing but harmony and beauty.

 

You seem to be viewing it froma standpoint of the act itself - which you may as well be hiring a hooker = she will "give" whenYOU pay. That's the same message your original post declares!

 

I don't know any woman who wants to DATE a man who views her in that light... A hole so HE can take while SHE gives.

[StillReigning]

Uh, in that post you quoted, I was talking about if I were a woman. Being a woman with all the qualities I listed and not much more is enough to do fine in the dating game. I know men are judged on more.

 

 

Read what I said again

 

Those traits as a man mean nothing if you don't have the confidence to approach enough and the personality to make a connection with women. Men are judged on social skills and you have horrible social skills

 

 

Don't even try to tell me that men aren't judged on their appearance.

 

Frankly, with some exceptions, I believe that women are more picky about looks than men are.

 

 

Not true, sorry. If women were so turned on by appearance then porn for women wouldn't be so unpopular

 

 

You're smoking crack if you think women care more about appearance than men do

[StillReigning]

Yes, whenever I'm with a girl we do nothing but stare at each other. Her watching me watch her boobs. I giggle when they bounce.

 

 

I didn't say that but you are very insecure and have terrible social skills, quite frankly

 

 

Social skills are about being comfortable and secure in oneself. People like that are naturally gravitating because folks feel comfortable around them.

[mesmerized]

You honestly don't seem to want to change your mind about anything. You sound like you have it all figured out and yet you get no results. I wonder why.

 

This whole women all have it easy and men have it hard is pure BS if you had logical thinking abilities. It's just simply impossible for things to be as one sided as you think. What's your major in school again?

[sweetheart5381]

Word to the wise here... women like men that like themselves and show it. Real confidence and character. Not by being loud and attention-grabbing, but by allowing others to see who they really are.

 

My man attracted me by being himself. He's the guy in an uptight engineering office to have the Metallica coffee cup. He's the guy that talks to everyone, from the janitor to the GM. He's the guy who went and got cream for my coffee when the office kitchenette ran out, and even though I was an absolute stranger he still thought of me. He's the guy that told me it wasn't my fault when I was raped. He's the guy that opens my beer for me, before he hands it to me.

 

Women like men that don't believe in out-dated stereotypical crap.

[StillReigning]

Word to the wise here... women like men that like themselves and show it. Real confidence and character. Not by being loud and attention-grabbing, but by allowing others to see who they really are.

 

My man attracted me by being himself. He's the guy in an uptight engineering office to have the Metallica coffee cup. He's the guy that talks to everyone, from the janitor to the GM. He's the guy who went and got cream for my coffee when the office kitchenette ran out, and even though I was an absolute stranger he still thought of me. He's the guy that told me it wasn't my fault when I was raped. He's the guy that opens my beer for me, before he hands it to me.

 

Women like men that don't believe in out-dated stereotypical crap.

 

 

Yep, men are primarily judged on social skills and women are primarily judged on appearance. That's the reality of the market and people just need to accept it

[somedude81]

Not true, sorry. If women were so turned on by appearance then porn for women wouldn't be so unpopular

 

 

You're smoking crack if you think women care more about appearance than men do

So you've never heard anything about women talking about how X guys is really hot or that she likes that some guy is really tall?

 

I didn't say that but you are very insecure and have terrible social skills, quite frankly

 

 

Social skills are about being comfortable and secure in oneself. People like that are naturally gravitating because folks feel comfortable around them.

I thought you were talking about how I must be a terrible conversationalist.

 

I was merely pointing that you're wrong.

 

You honestly don't seem to want to change your mind about anything. You sound like you have it all figured out and yet you get no results. I wonder why.

I've said time and time again that I don't know what I'm doing.

 

Why do you think I post threads asking for help? Research material?

This whole women all have it easy and men have it hard is pure BS if you had logical thinking abilities. It's just simply impossible for things to be as one sided as you think. What's your major in school again?

Inter-gender relations with a minor in Human Sexuality.

[mesmerized]

If you don't know what you're doing, then why on earth do you defend your thoughts so much?

[StillReigning]

So you've never heard anything about women talking about how X guys is really hot or that she likes that some guy is really tall?

 

 

Sure I have, but I've also encountered good looking men who struggled in dating because they had no personality

 

Men who are insecure and uncomfortable with themselves have no chance to succeed, period

 

 

I thought you were talking about how I must be a terrible conversationalist.

 

I was merely pointing that you're wrong.

 

 

Having good conversation is mostly about the energy you convey, not the words coming out of your mouth. The majority of communication is non verbal

 

 

You come across as terribly insecure and validation seeking on here, I'm sure you act the same way in real life. These are just about the worst personality traits for appealing to people

[mesmerized]

Yep, men are primarily judged on social skills and women are primarily judged on appearance. That's the reality of the market and people just need to accept it

 

I think you should have used "social status" instead of social skills.

[StillReigning]

I think you should have used "social status" instead of social skills.

 

 

 

Social Skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Social Status

 

 

 

A regular guy with a great personality will be more attractive than a VP of sales who is dull/stupid/arrogant

[sweetheart5381]

Yep, men are primarily judged on social skills and women are primarily judged on appearance. That's the reality of the market and people just need to accept it

 

I agree. A large part of this sexual stereotyping is that since men "only" want sex, then they will try to pursue in a less invasive way (through charm). My man is not charming, lol... he in fact puts his foot in his mouth all the time, but I appreciate his humility and honesty.

 

I like to see the way a man really is... I have known my man for over 2 yrs now and he really is who he appears to be. He loves and respects women. He is not considered the most attractive man physically to most, not a body-builder, ect, but I find him to be incredibly desirable because I don't have to wonder who he really is. The outside package means little to me when I really adore the whole package.

[Thieves]

I've said time and time again that I don't know what I'm doing.

 

Why do you think I post threads asking for help? Research material?

 

Somedude, your threads sometimes seem less like asking for help than you'd think. When they first start off, sure, they may sound genuine. But then as said... they tend to wittle down into mere arguments where you're often too stubborn to give other people's view a chance. And then at this point, it looks more like starting a controversial topic based on your personal failures and not really a real seeking of research material. If this weren't true, we wouldn't be having another thread like this where people are yet again trying to get through to you. And I highly doubt that of all the people in all of your threads during this entire time that few have given sound advice.

 

The truth is, people can give you all the help/advice you need, but if it's not actually applied in a genuine way in your real life - and not just discussed and then discarded because of disbelief or resistance to take action - it's futile.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, TFB. You're not entitled to have your advice be well received. Sorry, just how it is.

 

I agree 100%! But I AM entitled to express my opinion about having my advice poorly received, if I feel like it!

 

 

Maybe. But then again you've never walked a mile (or even 3 feet) in SD's shoes so who knows.

 

I think I have been in the shoes of some of the girls SD "targets," though, and I know what it's like.

 

It's just not a big deal, so why get worked up over it?

 

I'm not worked up over it … it's just one of the things on LoveShack that I choose to engage with. And as long as I feel like it, I will continue!

 

Sorry, Somedude!

[jobaba]

Don't even try to tell me that men aren't judged on their appearance.

 

Frankly, with some exceptions, I believe that women are more picky about looks than men are.

 

Thankfully, things like an awesome personality, great sense of humor, rock solid confidence, can overcome such deal breakers as a man being under 5'10.

 

Imagine not caring...

 

Imagine being charming, and thoughtful and having a group of women laughing and them still not being attracted to you because you're too short, or not the right race, or whatever.

 

Who gives a sh@t?

 

You've got stuff to do in this life (I hope). Interesting people to meet, things to accomplish, songs to write, paintings to paint.

 

When you think like that ... you've won.

[StillReigning]

Imagine not caring...

 

Imagine being charming, and thoughtful and having a group of women laughing and them still not being attracted to you because you're too short, or not the right race, or whatever.

 

 

It's all a numbers game anyways. Nobody bats a 1.000 and somebody will like you if you try enough

 

 

The problem is OP doesn't even give himself a chance because of how terribly insecure he is

[mesmerized]

Social Skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Social Status

 

 

 

A regular guy with a great personality will be more attractive than a VP of sales who is dull/stupid/arrogant

 

Social status doesn't mean just having a great job and making a lot of money. Social status includes: social skills + money + connections +.... Women who are after long term commitment and a family are often going to reject you if you only make 30k a year, no matter how social you are.

[sweetheart5381]

Social Skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Social Status

 

 

 

A regular guy with a great personality will be more attractive than a VP of sales who is dull/stupid/arrogant

 

Yep, a man with social skills, who understands body language, cues, actually listens and can recall details PLUS enjoys a woman's cleavage all at the same time... well, that's a pretty smart man