Is relationship and sex is 'something' that men 'get' from a woman /she gives

[fortyninethousand322]

What's your passion? What do you do that makes you feel alive?

 

Over the past few months? Nothing. I have no passion.

[fortyninethousand322]

...None of this, still, explains how they are doing 'everything they can' or that they would even want to date 'any women at all'.

 

This is sort of like arguing if someone has an allergy to peanuts whether they're doing all they can to get rid of the allergy.

 

If you are a breathing male you will get into a relationship or have sex with a woman by the age of 32, whether you do all you can or not. To avoid this fate you would probably have to literally construct a fortress of solitude in the arctic somewhere and live in it. Or, there's something else going on.

 

I don't see the problem with what I'm saying. At least I'm not putting the blame on women. You should be happy.

[espec10001]

Over the past few months? Nothing. I have no passion.

 

Well, there you go. You need passion, you need inner fire. Something that is a personal goal of yours. Something that has nothing to do with women or impressing anyone else. It can be anything. Be creative, a man's nature is in creation. You're a man, are you not?

[Meeks7]

If you don't know what you're doing, then why on earth do you defend your thoughts so much?

 

I too have pondered this whenever I read his threads. He claims he doesn't know what he's doing (and that is a fact), yet he is quick to call ideas and suggestions "wrong" and "no way no how." What a bad combination to have -- no clue and being stubborn/having a closed mind. Not trying to insult, but that's what I see.

 

Somedude, you have been, and you are, swimming against the current. For whatever reasons, and some have been well documented while I'm sure many others unspoken and unaccounted for, you swim against the current. That is why life and relationships don't make sense to you on a real, personal level. If you would just swallow your pride and try to do the NORMAL things people do, and SWIM WITH THE CURRENT, how much farther along would you be...

 

As it is, you're killing time on LS and creating a bigger mental block in your own mind. Please start swimming WITH the current, as opposed to against. How do you swim with the current? Actually do things that you immediately think "no" to. Because right now, doing the opposite of what you're doing can't be any worse. (i.e. going out on a Friday night ANYWHERE instead of staying home alone watching anime or playing games)

[Teknoe]

Well, there you go. You need passion, you need inner fire. Something that is a personal goal of yours. Something that has nothing to do with women or impressing anyone else. It can be anything. Be creative, a man's nature is in creation. You're a man, are you not?

 

49, listen to espec's quote. Take it in.

 

You need passion in life beyond sex and girls. Women SWOON over men who live and stand for something... whether it's a foundation to create awareness about a certain form of cancer, teaching, dancing, whatever. When a man has more going on in his life than just "OMG, how do I get my latest crush to fall for me?" it's incredibly attractive. Not to ALL women, but definitely to some.

 

On a related note, see my threads below for more on this.

 

I know what you're going through. For years I delayed my career and focused on my crushes. It got me nowhere. I'm a late bloomer but thank God I'm finally blooming.

 

Don't make the same mistakes as I have. See the following threads when you have a moment. They are things I wish someone else had told me all those years ago where I was delaying my life for stupid fantasy crushes while clearly ignoring some key issues that kept me from launching into true adult and manhood. Read them and see how you feel.

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/self-improvement-personal-well-being/334095-do-not-underestimate-power-positive-momentum

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/self-improvement-personal-well-being/342471-having-full-time-job-im-passionate-about-has-changed-my-life

[denise_xo]

In my opinion, damn right it is.

 

If men have to work to attract women, and women determine if relationships and sex happen, how can it be seen any other way?

 

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I've always worked hard to attract men as well as worked hard on relationships. For some reason, I haven't seemed to meet those men where, according to what you seem to suggest, would be happy with me just opening my legs. But perhaps we move in different social crowds. I have also never just determined whether a relationship would happen. I have been rejected many times, as have many women I know.

 

Relationships require work from two parties. They are partnerships.

[Tiera D]

men look more on appearance while women more on personality. Well what i personally get in relationship is happiness,sex is just a bonus i never demanded sex not all guys needs it,when a girl is ready she would demand it,its not something i personally would ask.to me doing housework with my ex,joking around teasing each other,discussing each others stress then hugging her, etc is the true core in relationships not sex.i believe other posters will agree with me in these values,i think OP perception is not clear enough between love and sex

 

TD

[ThaWholigan]

I can't believe I missed this thread

 

I always had the feeling that sex was a mutual experience between two people, that both had extreme fun doing . At least that is how I would gauge it.

 

This to me is a version of the scarcity mindset, "that men somehow only have sex when they get lucky - unless of course they are TGLAR (Tall, Good looking and Rich)". Women like sex as much as we do, in fact they probably have the capacity to enjoy it 10x more. When you take that in, you realize that it isn't something they "give away". In some ways, I feel like I would be the giving one .

 

Also, I wanted to mention the bit about "working to attract women". That some men see it as hard work is unfortunate. It's no harder than learning any other skill, being able to attract the kind of women you wish to date, or would be good for you. I would reframe this, instead of seeing it this way.

[fortyninethousand322]

You need passion in life beyond sex and girls.

 

I don't have passion for sex (in fact I'm totally disinterested in sex) and I don't have a passion for girls but rather one girl in particular from a few years ago who I will (most likely) never see again.

 

And this is just a recent glut of having no passion/being depressed. I haven't always been this way. I've just realized a lot of things recently that made me rethink a lot of things.

[jobaba]

Over the past few months? Nothing. I have no passion.

 

Perfectly normal. Most people don't have a passion for something, and if you do, it actually hurts you in a lot of ways in the dating game.

 

I have a passion for music, and, especially in my 20s, I spent hours at it. I turned downed invitations to hang out where I could have been meeting women to sit at home and play. I sought out bands and people to play with on Craigslist instead of women on Match.com. I've yet to meet a woman who is into bebop jazz, so it doesn't help in the conversation arena. And I never wanted a job where I had to work much more than 40 hrs/wk so I'd have time to play and gig.

 

If I hadn't had that holding me back, I'd probably be a patent attorney or Senior Engineer by now, be making lots of bank, and be more attractive to a wider scope of women.

 

A passion for something in life might make you happier. It certainly has me. It's given me purpose in life when life has seemed pointless. But it's a case by case basis.

[jobaba]

In the wild, when the alpha male of the pack mates with all the females of the pack, is it not a reality that only the alpha male's genes get passed on?

 

Now, I will certainly grant you that humans no longer live in pack-like conditions so some things are a bit different. But consider this: abusers, rapists, murderers, completely unconfident dweebs, starving artists, workaholic business execs and even repressed homosexuals get into relationships with women every single day, sometimes/often on accident. And you're telling me that SD with the issues he may or may not have is in a worse situation? No one gets to be 32 and in his situation without something deeply wrong. And I'd venture that it's a biological/genetic force.

 

That's not completely true. I know a couple of guys older than 32 who have never had a relationship and probably have never kissed a girl. There's nothing overtly wrong with them. One is on the quieter side, and one is on the offensive side, but other men that are more physically attractive have those traits and no troubles with women.

 

It might sound sucky and pessimistic, but I believe certain guys should just not focus on dating. If you were 5'3", it's probably not the best idea to focus on being a DI or NBA basketball player. Could you be the next Muggsy Bogues? Possibly, but more likely a lot of wasted energy.

 

Dating is an inherently shallow process that favors aggressive men and average looking to above women. Why do short guys and passive, nice guys come here and read posts? They know they are going to get slaughtered. Why do unsuccessful men want to read a thread about how every man a woman meets is either too ugly or too stupid for her so she's going to sit back and wait for the right one? It's like a hardcore liberal attending an Ann Coulter signing. You'll just make yourself angry.

 

Which is not to say you'll die alone. Dating is different from relationships. Your road to your wife may have a lot less scenic stops on the way, but you'll get there.

[Teknoe]

I have a passion for music, and, especially in my 20s, I spent hours at it. I turned downed invitations to hang out where I could have been meeting women to sit at home and play. I sought out bands and people to play with on Craigslist instead of women on Match.com. I've yet to meet a woman who is into bebop jazz, so it doesn't help in the conversation arena

 

You gotta live your life too, though. And just because you haven't met a woman into bebop jazz so much doesn't mean it's a waste of your time, not at all by any means. Who knows, maybe one day you will meet someone into it.

 

Bottom line, don't gauge your passion on how well or not it can attract women. Sure you consider it, but what you just wrote is beyond consideration. Do your passion because it makes you happier, not because it may attract more women. There is a subtle difference that actually makes ALL the difference.

 

 

A passion for something in life might make you happier. It certainly has me. It's given me purpose in life when life has seemed pointless. But it's a case by case basis.

 

I'm not so sure about case by case basis, especially for a guy as 49. It's clear he needs some drive/passion/motivation in life beyond a girl. He said he's been in this funk for months now, which is understandable. But months can quickly become years, believe me. It's a dangerous slippery slope. Passion for something does help give one purpose in life, and that's what we all need to feel on a real, meaningful level.

 

49, I'd encourage you again to read my positive momentum thread and see where in your life you can start taking small steps out of your comfort zone. Speaking on personal experience, you'll amaze yourself looking back at how far you will have come -- IF you start taking small steps each day/week. For me, it was as small (yet as big) as FINALLY getting my name on the substituting list... after NOT being on there for five years... seriously... it was a ridiculous mental block I had. Once I got on, I realized it wasn't anything to be scared of, and I actually CRAVED being in the classroom.

 

Less than a month later after my last sub job for the school year (May 29, 2012), I was hired full time. I was amazed by the progress I made... and it was all because of that faith step I took to finally face my fears.

 

Looking back, I realized in those five years I was just delaying my real life from starting. I focused on movies, video games, my crushes, and staying up til 3 AM every night just living the easy lazy life. However, now at 29 years old, I had to finally come to terms that I cannot live this way forever, and also, I wanted to finish what I had started back in 2001: become a full time teacher one day.

 

It took me 10 years baby, but I'm finally here. All because of positive momentum. I hope you have a similar success story as well. It does require a leap of faith though, and finally saying "Eff you" to your fears.

[kaylan]

in terms of sex, sorry, but I have to disagree. on the whole, yes, but its not what I experienced. if you look good then the ball is in your court. male or female.

This exactly. As well as having standards and self control. A lot guys lack those two things and simply give way too much power to women. Personally I have too much pride to let a woman dictate what goes on with sex. Im not desperate and I can find other women if I come across bad behavior. Or I will just go without. Not the biggest deal in the world to me.

[jobaba]

You gotta live your life too, though. And just because you haven't met a woman into bebop jazz so much doesn't mean it's a waste of your time, not at all by any means. Who knows, maybe one day you will meet someone into it.

 

Bottom line, don't gauge your passion on how well or not it can attract women. Sure you consider it, but what you just wrote is beyond consideration. Do your passion because it makes you happier, not because it may attract more women. There is a subtle difference that actually makes ALL the difference.

 

I'm not so sure about case by case basis, especially for a guy as 49. It's clear he needs some drive/passion/motivation in life beyond a girl. He said he's been in this funk for months now, which is understandable. But months can quickly become years, believe me. It's a dangerous slippery slope. Passion for something does help give one purpose in life, and that's what we all need to feel on a real, meaningful level.

 

49, I'd encourage you again to read my positive momentum thread and see where in your life you can start taking small steps out of your comfort zone. Speaking on personal experience, you'll amaze yourself looking back at how far you will have come -- IF you start taking small steps each day/week. For me, it was as small (yet as big) as FINALLY getting my name on the substituting list... after NOT being on there for five years... seriously... it was a ridiculous mental block I had. Once I got on, I realized it wasn't anything to be scared of, and I actually CRAVED being in the classroom.

 

Less than a month later after my last sub job for the school year (May 29, 2012), I was hired full time. I was amazed by the progress I made... and it was all because of that faith step I took to finally face my fears.

 

Looking back, I realized in those five years I was just delaying my real life from starting. I focused on movies, video games, my crushes, and staying up til 3 AM every night just living the easy lazy life. However, now at 29 years old, I had to finally come to terms that I cannot live this way forever, and also, I wanted to finish what I had started back in 2001: become a full time teacher one day.

 

It took me 10 years baby, but I'm finally here. All because of positive momentum. I hope you have a similar success story as well. It does require a leap of faith though, and finally saying "Eff you" to your fears.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Others have said your passion will make you more attractive to women. I think the opposite. Obviously, I have continued to pursue it IN SPITE of it hurting me with women.

 

Good for you finding what makes you happy. That's what life is really about, women or men or nothing!

[GoodOnPaper]

Also, I wanted to mention the bit about "working to attract women". That some men see it as hard work is unfortunate. It's no harder than learning any other skill, being able to attract the kind of women you wish to date, or would be good for you. I would reframe this, instead of seeing it this way.

 

The meeting/attraction stage IS very hard work -- things always resulted in being very one-sided. I think the reason that some of us freeze up when trying to figure out how to change our unproductive mindset is this: Doing nothing certainly won't help, but if love is something that we have to "earn" or otherwise prove that we are "good enough" for, then won't we just have to keep trying to earn and prove even after we find someone? When will it end? Being under that kind of constant pressure is no way to live.

[ThaWholigan]

The meeting/attraction stage IS very hard work -- things always resulted in being very one-sided. I think the reason that some of us freeze up when trying to figure out how to change our unproductive mindset is this: Doing nothing certainly won't help, but if love is something that we have to "earn" or otherwise prove that we are "good enough" for, then won't we just have to keep trying to earn and prove even after we find someone? When will it end? Being under that kind of constant pressure is no way to live.

It doesn't feel like pressure to me. It only felt like that because I took it too seriously before. Now I at least try to have fun and make sure that the person I have a date with also has fun. So it doesn't feel like hard work to me.

 

I hesitate to say it is making excuses because I do recognize that mindset well as I used to have it for a short time.

 

Basically, it's not hard work to me. It's harder work to do what me and Jobaba do (hardcore musicians FTW).

[Anela]

 

Dude, if either you or I were women, we'd have no problems with dating/relationships at all.

 

You don't pay attention at all, when women talk about their own problems with dating, do you? I'm not trying to be mean.

 

 

No, my "unique issues" wouldn't mean sh*t if I were female. And neither would yours.

 

They do mean s*it if you aren't just looking to grab just anyone to be with. Intimacy is comprised of more than genitals meeting; good, healthy relationships in my mind, consist of what others have already described to you.

 

I've had a lying, cheater-wannabe call me amazingly sexy. Big whoop. I feel dirty when it comes from people like him - and it seems like that's mostly what I get. I feel like throwing a tantrum myself, over the fact that I have never had what I wanted in a relationship, I'm now 37, look at this woman and that woman, just getting what I've always wanted. The feelings will pass, and they will come back, as usual.

 

I was told that some guy was looking over his shoulder at me in the bookstore yesterday. Does that mean I should have grabbed him, dragged him into the bathroom and shagged him, just because I could? Ew. I didn't see him, but my hormones don't work that way with anyone.

 

This coming from a robot.

 

A robot who knows what he's talking about. I've seen him give you good advice before; he's tried to help you more than once.

[Anela]

 

Frankly, every time I've seen a post from you directed at me, it's always been something rude.

 

This is not true.

 

 

And sorry, I don't remember you giving me any advice. Last time must have been a few years ago.

 

Just the other day, in your thread about your last year at school. Also: earlier this year in the off-topic thread. You were out with your mother, and you liked the look of a waitress.

 

I don't know how I remember this stuff, but my own phone number eludes me.

 

 

 

Past threads aside, though, this one is highly worthy of annoyance, disagreement or even derision. Once again, the "reality" of a person's existence if they happen to be female is completely deniied in favor of some ridiculous and self serving fantasy.

 

Grrr.

 

It's getting my back up, too.

[jobaba]

 

I've had a lying, cheater-wannabe call me amazingly sexy. Big whoop. I feel dirty when it comes from people like him - and it seems like that's mostly what I get. I feel like throwing a tantrum myself, over the fact that I have never had what I wanted in a relationship, I'm now 37, look at this woman and that woman, just getting what I've always wanted. The feelings will pass, and they will come back, as usual.

 

I was told that some guy was looking over his shoulder at me in the bookstore yesterday. Does that mean I should have grabbed him, dragged him into the bathroom and shagged him, just because I could? Ew. I didn't see him, but my hormones don't work that way with anyone.

 

The oft used ... women can get sex but not relationships ... I see it all over the place. I've never bought into it.

 

Maybe it's just me or the guys I hang out with, but ... any time I have wanted to have sex with a woman but not pursue a relationship with her, it was squarely because of her personality. And that was when I was younger. I almost never think like that now.

 

As a matter of fact, the only time I have hooked up with a woman, and one person was blown off for a subsequent date/start of dating procedure, that person was me.

 

I have also seen many women in relationships with men they weren't 'really attracted to'. So, they wouldn't publicly introduce them as their boyfriends.

 

So, really, I think men deal with this issue almost as much. If you can get a@@ on a regular basis, you can get a relationship. Simple as that. Unless you happen to be a real psycho b@tch (or creep).

 

Which is not to say women don't struggle. Unattractive women do struggle. Anyway, numbers and genders don't matter. Either you can attract people or you can't.

Edited August 27, 2012 by jobaba

[somedude81]

Really? Let's talk about the things that attract you to women. Seeing as you claim your standards are 'lower' than everyone else's and are the 'bare minimum', that seems as good a place to start as any.

 

Weight - will leave that to the next bit.

 

Long hair - have you any idea the sort of maintenance it takes to keep long hair looking good when it's down? Most girls with long hair that I know spend at least 20 minutes a day on their hair alone, from conditioning and treating and applying serum and whatnot, to blowdrying and straightening. You could keep it long without doing all of that, but unless you're blessed with amazingly rare good genes (more rare than that of the 6' man), you're likely to look like the resident witch.

 

Shaved body hair - ditto. Not even going to go into that. Try keeping your legs, armpits, and pubic area hairless (without stubble!) for a few weeks and you'll see.

And how many women do those things to specifically attract men?

You claimed you'd like a woman to have makeup that 'covers her flaws well' but doesn't look 'trashy'. Guess how much practice it takes to apply makeup like that, and how much even decent-quality makeup costs.

Frankly, I don't care about makeup at all. The last girl I was into never wore it.

 

So what if she has some imperfections, we're human, we all do. I've never understood why women need makeup and men don't. Does that mean that women are naturally uglier than men and only makeup can hide it?

 

Sure, some women do it to compete with other women. But what are they competing FOR? Male attention.

Then why do women who are married continue to do it?

I've seen women put heartbreaking amounts of effort into men who aren't even really into them. Your reality is not THE reality. You need to be able to open your eyes to see what others do and empathize with how they feel.

Any woman who puts heartbreaking amounts of effort into a guy is wasting her time. There are plenty of good guys who would want her, it's her problem if she doesn't want them.

 

Point blank, I would have no problems being with an overweight man. Does that mean that my 'standards' are lower than yours? No, I just have different ones.

Doubt it.

 

Odds are you wouldn't even go on a first date with a guy that big. And I'm assuming you're not talking about a guy that is tall and muscular that weighs 200.

 

 

 

We can't apply our own priorities to everyone else. It would be akin to a 200 lbs, balding, 60 year old female CEO saying that if she were a man, she would have no problems finding mates, so clearly 'men must have it easier than women do'. Sure, it applies to her situation, but that does not make it the truth.

Uh, if the guy wasn't a CEO then he'd still have problems.

 

All you're basically saying is that women care about money more then men do.

 

About your constant insistence about your lack of being overweight, I have a niggly feeling it would be different if you were a woman. To begin with, women of your size ARE often called overweight, albeit wrongfully.

Actually, a woman who is 5'6 and 160lbs is overweight. There is nothing wrongful about saying it.

 

That's why my number one dealbreaker is that a woman can't be heavier than I am.

 

Secondly, it is exceedingly rare for a 30-year-old woman who does not exercise and doesn't watch her diet, to not be overweight. It is easier for you, because you have the innate basal metabolic rate of a man, and you lack the female hormones that encourage the storage of fat.

And how'd you come to the conclusion that I don't exercise or watch what I eat?

 

I'm not saying I'm in the gym four days a week and never eat junk food, but the opposite is hardly true.

 

 

 

 

You mentioned trying to exercise for a few months to build muscle and gave up because you weren't seeing any returns, claiming your innate body type as a reason. Can you imagine if you were an overweight woman trying to lose weight? You'd still be exactly the same size now.

One thing, I've been working out for years.

 

I'm an ectomorph. I don't have the genes to easily get big. I do have muscle on me, but it's not really easy to tell when I'm wearing clothes. If I didn't work out, I'd probably be ~120lbs.

 

And yes I do have some fat, though just on my stomach and it's not much, though more than I want.

 

Imagine not caring...

 

Imagine being charming, and thoughtful and having a group of women laughing and them still not being attracted to you because you're too short, or not the right race, or whatever.

 

Who gives a sh@t?

 

You've got stuff to do in this life (I hope). Interesting people to meet, things to accomplish, songs to write, paintings to paint.

 

When you think like that ... you've won.

What substance do you recommend so I can think that way?

[verhrzn]

The list goes on, really. Trust me, it isn't about expensive perfume and designer handbags. When women talk about what they do to attract men, they aren't talking about that. They're talking about what I mentioned - and more. Sure, some women do it to compete with other women. But what are they competing FOR? Male attention.

 

Also, sure, women don't have to do all of the above. There are certainly guys (the better ones, IMO) who don't care about that. But it is no secret that many, including yourself, do. Your ideas of what men and women do to attract a mate are just skewed completely out of proportion. Beauty maintenance aside, I've seen women put heartbreaking amounts of effort into men who aren't even really into them. Your reality is not THE reality. You need to be able to open your eyes to see what others do and empathize with how they feel.

 

About your constant insistence about your lack of being overweight, I have a niggly feeling it would be different if you were a woman. To begin with, women of your size ARE often called overweight, albeit wrongfully. Secondly, it is exceedingly rare for a 30-year-old woman who does not exercise and doesn't watch her diet, to not be overweight. It is easier for you, because you have the innate basal metabolic rate of a man, and you lack the female hormones that encourage the storage of fat. It is completely possible for a 30-year-old woman to have a good body, but with few exceptions, she has to work at it. You mentioned trying to exercise for a few months to build muscle and gave up because you weren't seeing any returns, claiming your innate body type as a reason. Can you imagine if you were an overweight woman trying to lose weight? You'd still be exactly the same size now.

 

Have I mentioned lately how much I adore you?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I don't think that having a passion will make women swarm on you like flies, as has been suggested in this thread.

 

What it will do is give your life a fullness that we all should have in our lives. Because that is what life is all about.

 

Also, though, I don't believe that a person can just manufacture passion out of nothing. It kind of takes us.

 

But at least try. A place to start is with developing an interest. I think that is something that anybody could do.

 

Regarding the topic of this thread: it's not even a question. NO. Sex and relationships are not something that women GIVE and men TAKE. Obviously the OP believes this and lookie! He has zero sex, relationship, or any other woman stuff going on in his life. And so it shall remain. I guarantee it.

 

UNLESS the OP gets willing to look at himself and to throw away almost every single one (and maybe, actually every single one) of his notions about what / who "women" are, what sex means, what a relationship actually is, etc.

 

Or, just buy sex. If you're not willing to change YOURSELF, Somedude, you are the perfect john because you already view women as things that you can "get" if you have the necessary wampum.

[2.50 a gallon]

"what substance"

 

Sorry there is not such thing as a intelligent pill. But in it's place try learning about women and how to talk to them and how to seduce them.

 

As to the sex bit, once you learn and yes this can be self taught, how to properly seduce a woman, they don't give you sex. They come begging for it. They will lovingly call your manhood, your love muscle. When they sleep at night with you, many of them will find away to sleep with their had right there.

 

First lesson in learning about women. Why do married women continue to compete, use make up and dress attractively?

 

Because they are married and even though they are married they have to keep the eyes of their husbands from wandering

[fortyninethousand322]

Regarding the topic of this thread: it's not even a question. NO. Sex and relationships are not something that women GIVE and men TAKE. Obviously the OP believes this and lookie! He has zero sex, relationship, or any other woman stuff going on in his life. And so it shall remain. I guarantee it.

 

What he should do is act exactly like Charlie Sheen or someone like that. Women will swarm to him in that case.

[fortyninethousand322]

Because they are married and even though they are married they have to keep the eyes of their husbands from wandering

 

If I ever have the privilege of getting married, I will make darn sure that my wife knows my eyes will not wander and she can dress and act however she likes. For better or worse and all of that.