Mrlonelyone Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 On short hair. Princess Dianna with what was called the Dianna cut. http://www.chroniclebooks.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/diana.jpg Tell me that's not feminine. The thing to know about masculinity and femininity is that it is a socially constructed societal role. No different than deciding who'a a leader or follower, or any given job. In the modern Euro-American world femininity it associated with certain traits: Femininity is vanity, submissiveness, timidness, physical weakness. Women are assumed, by many but not all men, to be incompetent to task thought of as "mens work". i.e. women, scientist, enginners, doctors, lawyers, buisness people....are all given short shrift by men (and sometimes other women who fancy themselves more traditional.) Basically it takes ideas born of the physical differences between men and women and exaggerates them. In short feminine and masculine gender roles are socially approved of ways of exaggerating the underlying physical differences between males and females. Of course, being who I am, I must mention that other societies allow for those people who are not totally one or the other to also express that through a third gender role. (see fa'faafine of Samoa, Two-Spirit american indian, Hijra east India) The function really is the same at it's base. It's all about advertising "Hey, this is what I (probably) have in my pants." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author irin Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 ladies are more then welcome take part in this thread even though the question is targeted at males. everyone is more then welcome. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Why is it okay for women to want men who protect and want masculine men who will live up to their role but if a man wants a woman with feminine traits it assumed that he just wants her because he wants a doormat? It's not okay - and it's not even an issue in MY life. I am so happy to break out every last feminine wile I have access to because my husband loves it when I act that way … and we all know I'm a feminist bitch. Back to the fun part. Like short hair on women or hate it, I don't think you can deny the femininity of: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQmKivfIgJAUuJnWNM54BtBeB2cDhJrLKRSgkXKxqq2fWBUM3d2 http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu4e_I27FN8QsnPKZCYPkrpC77iLd7Gw98y548I_Rd9zw0vh4B http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtO7Y72hrJskDsC6EeDyYefbCb-37R9xJgncWIGrLz7od-ibNK1g http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfWo_OQwHsc7OBEFLgYgkvFSUt-tEmq4SI40vyK1RQpwqQ3x2Z http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcST96rMN-hEH9uRfwVdj1qCJlSOHrntTfoytjKm-7fOnCwCCdVK http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlZfPiHkgKxXuXwcU_086I60qRxvkxH1Dtlvk3DYU0ZwYnqL-j http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRv-tFQgOtLK1EBVB96u6ReNsLxQW2JxeysR-uqIEN89ostp8eUpg 4 Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I was having a discussion with GirlontheLam. In case you haven't noticed, she is a strong, independent, feminist woman. I'm quite certain that she does not need some patriarchal white knight figure like yourself to jump in to defend her honor and argue on her behalf . I suggest you save you rhetorical vigor for another day. Oh yeah, Im a white knight for calling out BS huh? Even though I do it to everyone irrespective of gender huh? Im not surprised in the least that you havent dared to try defending my criticisms of you. Instead you respond with quaint nonsense as quoted here. At least that lets me know that you can see I caught you on your crap. Edited August 28, 2012 by kaylan Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 It's not okay - and it's not even an issue in MY life. I am so happy to break out every last feminine wile I have access to because my husband loves it when I act that way … and we all know I'm a feminist bitch. Back to the fun part. Like short hair on women or hate it, I don't think you can deny the femininity of: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQmKivfIgJAUuJnWNM54BtBeB2cDhJrLKRSgkXKxqq2fWBUM3d2 http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu4e_I27FN8QsnPKZCYPkrpC77iLd7Gw98y548I_Rd9zw0vh4B http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQtO7Y72hrJskDsC6EeDyYefbCb-37R9xJgncWIGrLz7od-ibNK1g http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTfWo_OQwHsc7OBEFLgYgkvFSUt-tEmq4SI40vyK1RQpwqQ3x2Z http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcST96rMN-hEH9uRfwVdj1qCJlSOHrntTfoytjKm-7fOnCwCCdVK http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRlZfPiHkgKxXuXwcU_086I60qRxvkxH1Dtlvk3DYU0ZwYnqL-j http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRv-tFQgOtLK1EBVB96u6ReNsLxQW2JxeysR-uqIEN89ostp8eUpg I know you don't feel like that but Red Robin pretty assumed the men in this thread want a doormat when I don't think most of us do. We just want the same love and respect most women demand from men and rightfully so but it should be both ways. This women are hot but there used to be a woman who was on a show with Pamela Anderson that I had a big crush on. Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I think we can all agree that there's short hair and then there are haircuts like this one. Some women can pull off very short hair. The same way some men pull off long hair great. You simply found a picture of an unattractive woman. It doesnt prove your point because Id find her unattractive even with longer hair.On short hair. Princess Dianna with what was called the Dianna cut. http://www.chroniclebooks.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/diana.jpg Tell me that's not feminine. The thing to know about masculinity and femininity is that it is a socially constructed societal role. No different than deciding who'a a leader or follower, or any given job. In the modern Euro-American world femininity it associated with certain traits: Femininity is vanity, submissiveness, timidness, physical weakness. Women are assumed, by many but not all men, to be incompetent to task thought of as "mens work". i.e. women, scientist, enginners, doctors, lawyers, buisness people....are all given short shrift by men (and sometimes other women who fancy themselves more traditional.) Basically it takes ideas born of the physical differences between men and women and exaggerates them. In short feminine and masculine gender roles are socially approved of ways of exaggerating the underlying physical differences between males and females. Of course, being who I am, I must mention that other societies allow for those people who are not totally one or the other to also express that through a third gender role. (see fa'faafine of Samoa, Two-Spirit american indian, Hijra east India) The function really is the same at it's base. It's all about advertising "Hey, this is what I (probably) have in my pants." Thank you. You win the thread. The bold sums this all up greatly. The problem with most people is that they are too ignorant of human development and behavior to know things like this. And they are generally ignorant of the vastly important topic of Nature vs Nurture. Edited August 28, 2012 by kaylan 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I am not beautiful, but I used to rock some really short hair. I thought it looked great on me. I do think that you need some certain attributes to wear it well, like a good jawline, a nice shape of head and a graceful neck. Usually. And you REALLY need to have a good haircut to pull it off. Link to post Share on other sites
Mrlonelyone Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Heart of a Lion. I am a transsexual. I wear short hair. I get called Ma'am 99.98% of the time. All I can say is thanks. I guess my face must have refined features. Me an di are 15th cousins once removed. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Oh yeah, Im a white knight for calling out BS huh? Even though I do it to everyone irrespective of gender huh? Im not surprised in the least that you havent dared to try defending my criticisms of you. Instead you respond with quaint nonsense as quoted here. At least that lets me know that you can see I caught you on your crap. Oh, kaylan, do you not understand? FGM wants everything to be gender-neutral and equal.. except when it suits him. Currently, it suits him to use you and GirlontheLam's genders to attempt to insult you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
blueshoryu Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 IMHO, femininity is a state of mind that emphasizes qualities like nurturing, beauty, elegance, warmth, social grace, and inner strength. A feminine girl is one who takes pleasure in the way she complements a man's masculinity. She sees that in a relationship, these two traits play off each other like ying and yang. The beauty is in the interaction of these two energies, and the understanding that they need to be the same. Link to post Share on other sites
SpiralOut Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I think being feminine is about feeling comfortable with being a woman. Feeling comfortable in your own skin and being who you are. That might be in heels, that might be barefoot. Whatever. Every woman is different. Edited August 28, 2012 by SpiralOut 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 When I wear an extremely padded bra, I feel so very feminine. I wonder what it would feel like to burn it? 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 6 pages later, men still in an apologetic way say what they want in women. Some women understand, others try to impose what men should say here. Just because it worked in the US/UK/Canada doesn't mean it will work in the rest of the world. I'd like to ask you women and female apologist [you know who you are on both counts], where were you just a few days ago when i had a thread up about RL discrimination against women, when i asked for advice on how to deal with it from women who went through similar experiences to the ones described ? Oh, one sure did post [and helped a lot], but i see none of you in this thread there. Could it be that your opinions are hollow ?; coming from indoctrination ?; could it be that you have no real experience to that effect that i described there ? I'll make it easy, the tread is in this section, further down. I'd like to hear some opinions from you feminists there, female apologist ... do come by. When I wear an extremely padded bra, I feel so very feminine. I wonder what it would feel like to burn it? Stay away from the fumes when/if you burn it. They are very toxic. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Who asked you? The same people that asked you?? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 6 pages later, men still in an apologetic way say what they want in women. You must have been reading a different thread. Some women understand, others try to impose what men should say here. Just because it worked in the US/UK/Canada doesn't mean it will work in the rest of the world. ... and this is why I left Eastern Europe. I have no desire to deal with the gender stereotypes that are still well and alive there. The Brits - specifically the English - have no problems with equality and they understand the subtleties of it, more often than not are not threatened by it. I'd like to ask you women and female apologist [you know who you are on both counts], where were you just a few days ago when i had a thread up about RL discrimination against women, when i asked for advice on how to deal with it from women who went through similar experiences to the ones described ? In the gym lifting weights, helping to physically restrain a shop lifter in a shopping centre until the police arrived (yes really), cooking a fresh and tasty meal after unpacking my shopping that consisted of two pairs of stillettos. Apparently some of us are capable of having several aspects of both feminine and masculine traits. Would anyone believe it? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 6 pages later, men still in an apologetic way say what they want in women. Some women understand, others try to impose what men should say here. Just because it worked in the US/UK/Canada doesn't mean it will work in the rest of the world. The thing is that men want very different things. Kaylan, Wholigan, and Titanwolf's responses were very different from, say, yongyong and FGM's. There isn't one solid mold for what 'men want' and what 'women should be', nor should there be. There's someone for everyone, really. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 The thing is that men want very different things. Kaylan, Wholigan, and Titanwolf's responses were very different from, say, yongyong and FGM's. There isn't one solid mold for what 'men want' and what 'women should be', nor should there be. There's someone for everyone, really. Also, the irony is that the men who go on most about wanting traditionally feminine women are often the men who women would tend to deliberately quash their femininity around. In the end, nobody knows more about how to be a woman than a woman does. However, for all there are these demands that women be "feminine", femininity tends to be sneered at a lot of the time. Perceived as "weak" and "foolish". If you look at any predominantly male site, you will rarely see anything genuinely positive being written about femininity, beyond feminine women being passive, obedient and easy to handle....and so of course a lot of women question whether the popular male notion of "femininity" is something worth aspiring to. I keep going on about Nietzsche lately, but we do live in a society where a lot of people subscribe loosely to a kind of Nietzschean mindset....which tends to reject the feminine, or relegate it to the very bottom of society unless it conforms to that highly lucrative form of exceptionally beautiful femininity that can make its owner a lot of money in Hollywood, the modelling industry or by marrying into wealth. If men want feminine women, they need to learn to genuinely appreciate femininity...rather than applauding it in a patronising sort of way, while sneering at it in the locker room. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 If men want feminine women, they need to learn to genuinely appreciate femininity...rather than applauding it in a patronising sort of way, while sneering at it in the locker room. Very true. Whatever the men on this thread - and some in real life - say about femininity, choosing it to feature strongly in your identity doesn't pay off in real life. You simply won't be respected by anyone and you won't get anywhere in your career usually (unless it's the performing arts perhaps). 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) You must have been reading a different thread. ... and this is why I left Eastern Europe. I have no desire to deal with the gender stereotypes that are still well and alive there. The Brits - specifically the English - have no problems with equality and they understand the subtleties of it, more often than not are not threatened by it. Pls answer in that thread, you come from around my area so i would love to hear your input. I don't view Eastern Europe as completely anti-feminist you know, i think some aspects would do well to be implemented but at least in my country women have had job opportunities since the late 40's. --- The thing is that men want very different things. Kaylan, Wholigan, and Titanwolf's responses were very different from, say, yongyong and FGM's. There isn't one solid mold for what 'men want' and what 'women should be', nor should there be. There's someone for everyone, really. Agreed Elswyth. When i said 'apologetic' i refered to what i perceive in some of these posts. It's like those ppl who want to say something bad about a certain person who is part of a minority and when they do so, add at the beginning 'i don't hate xxx, in fact i have many friends who are xxx'. Their beef is with what the person does or has as beliefs, but there is that fear of being labeled as 'you hate his/her ppl'. --- Very true. Whatever the men on this thread - and some in real life - say about femininity, choosing it to feature strongly in your identity doesn't pay off in real life. You simply won't be respected by anyone and you won't get anywhere in your career usually (unless it's the performing arts perhaps). Agreed. I know that women who climb the corporate ladder or are in business try to distance themselves somewhat of the 'feminine' image out of fear that they will be judged as 'weak'. Many of them are not afraid to show their feminine side to their mates, but they are afraid [and with reason imho] that it will affect their careers. There are a number of politicians who have embraced their femininity though, made it part of their public image and helped them immensely. Heads of state, prime-ministers. Edited August 28, 2012 by Radu 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Pls answer in that thread, you come from around my area so i would love to hear your input. I have I don't view Eastern Europe as completely anti-feminist you know, i think some aspects would do well to be implemented but at least in my country women have had job opportunities since the late 40's. they probably had to work just like in my country. Everyone had to work or had to give a very good reason for being unemployed, regardless whether they had kids or not Link to post Share on other sites
Radu Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Yup, it was forced ... but that didn't stop them from going to higher education, go into research, politics ... etc. But many got out of it easily. Link to post Share on other sites
Disenchantedly Yours Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Oh, kaylan, do you not understand? FGM wants everything to be gender-neutral and equal.. except when it suits him. Currently, it suits him to use you and GirlontheLam's genders to attempt to insult you. FGM needs a hug like no one's business. Someone get that man a hug, stat. I liked what kaylan and Wholigan had to say in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Being passive and aloof is typically feminine. Reeallly. :confused: Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Being passive and aloof is the default relationship strategy for most women so yes. Can I have the research to support that assessment. I am interested in reading their results and how they conducted their research. Link to post Share on other sites
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