Consolidated Discussion - A man's/woman's height in the search for relationships

[somedude81]

Same goes the for the guys here who constantly complain about women. They could have had girlfriends by now, but no: the girls have to be exceptionally pretty, and/or under a certain weight.

 

And please don't respond with, "I never said that MEN don't care about looks" because that doesn't make my comment a throwaway one. They just want to rewarded for shallowness, whilst expecting girls/women to throw away any "wants" that they have regarding looks or anything else (like financial stability, emotional stability, and so on).

Men care far less about looks than most women believe.

 

Contrary to popular belief, it's not really easier to get a plain girlfriend or an overweight one than to get a petty one.

[Arieswoman]

Hi,

I have not read the whole of this thread but I see you are 5'5" and I am not sure what your problem is?

 

I am 5'2" and most of my friends are the same height.

 

I have dated guys shorter than me.

 

No problem.

[normal person]

Men care far less about looks than most women believe.

 

You shouldn't generalize, everyone's different. As a guy, I care a lot about looks. Looks are how people who've never met attract each other. That's why they do their hair and wear nice clothes and work out. I stay in shape and take care of my appearance the best I can because I want the best shot at getting the women who's most attractive to me. And I would say I'm only attracted to a very small percentage of women.

 

Everyone has a degree of discrimination and I would guess that it's likely correlated to how attractive or desirable they are themselves. If they can afford to discriminate and get something better for themselves, they will.

 

 

Contrary to popular belief, it's not really easier to get a plain girlfriend or an overweight one than to get a petty one.

 

I'm not sure if I agree. In my experience a lot of the most desirable girls will make me put in a baseline amount of effort, even if they aren't shy about liking me. They don't give in with the snap of the finger. I've had things with some gorgeous girls but only once or twice did they ever just forego the whole process and just offer themselves up. This is because they have options and can afford to discriminate. Why would they dent their image and respectability if they can easily be with another guy who they can maintain it with?

 

Coincidentally however, it's usually the forward, aggressive girls, the ones who are willing to dent their image and supplant a man's traditional role as the pursuer, that I have no interest in. And it's usually not because they're aggressive. It usually for whatever reason they feel they need to be aggressive for, which is usually the reason why most guys aren't pursuing them (they're plain, overweight, etc). No one's going after her so she realizes if she doesn't do the legwork, she's never getting anywhere. Any of these aggressive type of girls is dying to be your girlfriend. The hot girl with options isn't going to make it that easy for you because she simply doesn't have to.

[topaMAXX]

You shouldn't generalize, everyone's different. As a guy, I care a lot about looks. Looks are how people who've never met attract each other. That's why they do their hair and wear nice clothes and work out. I stay in shape and take care of my appearance the best I can because I want the best shot at getting the women who's most attractive to me. And I would say I'm only attracted to a very small percentage of women.

 

Honestly, man, I don't think it's a good idea to try to better yourself just so women will like you. I'm also in very good shape, but I do it because I love that feeling I get after going to the gym. I love the feeling, when weight training, when I make increases and gains. It has very little to do with women and, tbh, I haven't found it to really help with women either (I did just as well with women when I never worked out).

 

Everyone has a degree of discrimination and I would guess that it's likely correlated to how attractive or desirable they are themselves. If they can afford to discriminate and get something better for themselves, they will.

 

This is not necessarily true either. Search the threads on here. The vast majority of posters on this forum are consistently single because they shoot for people out of their league. They may not say so at first, but it always comes out.

 

I'm not sure if I agree. In my experience a lot of the most desirable girls will make me put in a baseline amount of effort, even if they aren't shy about liking me. They don't give in with the snap of the finger. I've had things with some gorgeous girls but only once or twice did they ever just forego the whole process and just offer themselves up. This is because they have options and can afford to discriminate.

 

I disagree with this as well, to a degree. I'll be honest. I'm just getting out of my casual hookup phase. I've never really put a ton of effort into pursuing any girl. Maybe a little bit here and there. I've dated girls anywhere from average to hot, despite my lack of effort. I've also had average girls not date me because I didn't put in the effort (they told me as much).

 

So I'm not sure if this really depends on looks. Though, I do believe now that if you want a quality girl for a long term relationships, then you will have to make that effort.

 

Coincidentally however, it's usually the forward, aggressive girls, the ones who are willing to dent their image and supplant a man's traditional role as the pursuer, that I have no interest in. And it's usually not because they're aggressive. It usually for whatever reason they feel they need to be aggressive for, which is usually the reason why most guys aren't pursuing them (they're plain, overweight, etc). No one's going after her so she realizes if she doesn't do the legwork, she's never getting anywhere. Any of these aggressive type of girls is dying to be your girlfriend. The hot girl with options isn't going to make it that easy for you because she simply doesn't have to.

 

I'll be frank here. I've had some girls (both hot and not-so-hot) be aggressive with me. I've had girls literally pull my pants off to have sex with them when I was resisting somewhat. Some of these girls were very attractive.

 

However, in the end, they were all crazy. They all ended up having some major personality disorder.

 

So, these days, whenever a girl asks me out or is somewhat aggressive towards me, I don't reciprocate, mostly based on my past experiences with them.

[Anela]

 

Coincidentally however, it's usually the forward, aggressive girls, the ones who are willing to dent their image and supplant a man's traditional role as the pursuer, that I have no interest in. And it's usually not because they're aggressive. It usually for whatever reason they feel they need to be aggressive for, which is usually the reason why most guys aren't pursuing them (they're plain, overweight, etc). No one's going after her so she realizes if she doesn't do the legwork, she's never getting anywhere. Any of these aggressive type of girls is dying to be your girlfriend. The hot girl with options isn't going to make it that easy for you because she simply doesn't have to.

 

And that's why I stopped messaging men on OLD. I figured they might think that I was desperate, when I wasn't. I was just talking to men who interested me based on their profiles, and it just left me thinking that the "good" men were even worse than the "bad" ones.

 

I could easily have been in a relationship, if I were desperate enough, because I've had enough attention from men that don't interest me, because they wanted to cheat, or someone to move on to, before looking for another girlfriend in a year or two. They suddenly act like they're in love with me - and have actually said it - when I show no interest in them, because they actually thought I'd cheat, or throw away my "no polyamourist" rules, just for them. Also, the older men who ignore women their own age, or the younger ones wanting Mrs. Robinson.

[hasaquestion]

This is not necessarily true either. Search the threads on here. The vast majority of posters on this forum are consistently single because they shoot for people out of their league. They may not say so at first, but it always comes out.

 

Bingo. A girlfriend/fwb is a very achievable thing. People generally date people who are comparatively attractive/a "catch" to them. If you're willing to approach someone who is on your level you won't get rejected.

[Tayken]

Hi,

I have not read the whole of this thread but I see you are 5'5" and I am not sure what your problem is?

 

I am 5'2" and most of my friends are the same height.

 

I have dated guys shorter than me.

 

No problem.

 

Exactly...why is it that people get hung up on this? If a person is really tall and they are a ahole, does that justify their action and give them carte Blanche to do anything?

 

I have dated taller and shorter women...one thing is common to both, was in the bedroom I didn't see a difference

[normal person]

Honestly, man, I don't think it's a good idea to try to better yourself just so women will like you. I'm also in very good shape, but I do it because I love that feeling I get after going to the gym. I love the feeling, when weight training, when I make increases and gains. It has very little to do with women and, tbh, I haven't found it to really help with women either (I did just as well with women when I never worked out).

 

That's one reason I better myself, certainly not the only one. I want the best out of everything in life, not just women.

 

 

This is not necessarily true either. Search the threads on here. The vast majority of posters on this forum are consistently single because they shoot for people out of their league. They may not say so at first, but it always comes out.

 

You may be right, but I think people first have to go through a process of rejection and acceptance to gauge where they stand and who they can and can't attract. Once they figure it out (granted you see people on here at age 30-50 who still haven't), one would hope their discriminations would be a bit more realistic. Obviously it's not always the case -- keep in mind this is a forum where people routinely go for help and to get advice because things aren't working for them. This forum is a skewed sample. Out in the real world, I'd guess most people don't have these problems with the same degree of regularity. Conjecturally, pretty much everyone I know who wants to be involved with someone is, or if they're still in the search process, they don't have an false view of who's within their reach.

 

I disagree with this as well, to a degree. I'll be honest. I'm just getting out of my casual hookup phase. I've never really put a ton of effort into pursuing any girl. Maybe a little bit here and there. I've dated girls anywhere from average to hot, despite my lack of effort. I've also had average girls not date me because I didn't put in the effort (they told me as much).

 

So I'm not sure if this really depends on looks. Though, I do believe now that if you want a quality girl for a long term relationships, then you will have to make that effort.

 

Well that's pretty much been my experience too. I typically just limit my pool to the girls who are interested me. To me, trying to "win over" some girl with some display of whatever just seems so painfully transparent. The thing is, if a girl takes an interest and I like her, I'm not too blasé about it, I'm compelled to then put in the necessary effort and make it work. I've found that if I don't, it might be over pretty quick.

 

I've found the older the girl (up to a point), the less obsessive she'll be about a particular guy and the quicker she'll find the next one. I was recently harkening back to days of high school/college where girls will obsess about certain guys, whether their interest gets reciprocated or not. But once a girl hits 23-25, she grows up and she pretty much stops doing that, loses patience, adopts the "Who cares? Your loss" mentality, and picks from the other million guys trying to get with her.

 

 

I'll be frank here. I've had some girls (both hot and not-so-hot) be aggressive with me. I've had girls literally pull my pants off to have sex with them when I was resisting somewhat. Some of these girls were very attractive.

 

However, in the end, they were all crazy. They all ended up having some major personality disorder.

 

So, these days, whenever a girl asks me out or is somewhat aggressive towards me, I don't reciprocate, mostly based on my past experiences with them.

 

Perhaps true, but not so black and white to me. It's contextual.

A young hot aggressive college girl = possibly drunk, carefree, uninhibited, doesn't GAF, is almost expected to be sexual, still learning about herself

A hot aggressive 26 year old = definitely raises some red flags, be cautious

An aggressive 30 year old = incredibly strange, probably has some issues

[normal person]

And that's why I stopped messaging men on OLD. I figured they might think that I was desperate, when I wasn't. I was just talking to men who interested me based on their profiles, and it just left me thinking that the "good" men were even worse than the "bad" ones.

 

I could easily have been in a relationship, if I were desperate enough, because I've had enough attention from men that don't interest me, because they wanted to cheat, or someone to move on to, before looking for another girlfriend in a year or two. They suddenly act like they're in love with me - and have actually said it - when I show no interest in them, because they actually thought I'd cheat, or throw away my "no polyamourist" rules, just for them. Also, the older men who ignore women their own age, or the younger ones wanting Mrs. Robinson.

 

Hah. I know it's off topic at this point, but I don't think a girl sending a message is necessarily aggressive, I only date women who message me first. As I said, sending a girl a message just seems so transparent to me. A good message that I get from a girl is one or two sentences, maybe a question about something in the profile and a little joke. A bad message is "hi" or a whole freaking essay about ways in which our interests are so similar and that we'd really have fun together. That's the aggression that men watch out for.

Edited March 16, 2014 by normal person

[somedude81]

You shouldn't generalize, everyone's different. As a guy, I care a lot about looks. Looks are how people who've never met attract each other. That's why they do their hair and wear nice clothes and work out. I stay in shape and take care of my appearance the best I can because I want the best shot at getting the women who's most attractive to me. And I would say I'm only attracted to a very small percentage of women.

 

Everyone has a degree of discrimination and I would guess that it's likely correlated to how attractive or desirable they are themselves. If they can afford to discriminate and get something better for themselves, they will.

That's not exactly what I meant.

 

Many women believe that most men are only interested in model quality girls. When in fact the vast majority of guys just want a cute girl who isn't fat. Men are far less picky than women believe they are.

 

You may be one of the few men who are really picky.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if I agree. In my experience a lot of the most desirable girls will make me put in a baseline amount of effort, even if they aren't shy about liking me. They don't give in with the snap of the finger. I've had things with some gorgeous girls but only once or twice did they ever just forego the whole process and just offer themselves up. This is because they have options and can afford to discriminate. Why would they dent their image and respectability if they can easily be with another guy who they can maintain it with?

Very few women give in with the snap of a finger. All women unless they are very aggressive or easy require a decent amount of effort to date. Most men are going to have to work to date a girl no matter if she's a 5 or an 8.

 

Coincidentally however, it's usually the forward, aggressive girls, the ones who are willing to dent their image and supplant a man's traditional role as the pursuer, that I have no interest in. And it's usually not because they're aggressive. It usually for whatever reason they feel they need to be aggressive for, which is usually the reason why most guys aren't pursuing them (they're plain, overweight, etc). No one's going after her so she realizes if she doesn't do the legwork, she's never getting anywhere. Any of these aggressive type of girls is dying to be your girlfriend. The hot girl with options isn't going to make it that easy for you because she simply doesn't have to.

I've only ever known the obese girls to be aggressive.

 

So in my experience it's either

 

Let an obese girl come to me.

 

Or

 

Put in effort to get a girl that is plain, cute or hot. All will require work and game.

[R3d]

I came across this article: Women vs. Short Guys Revisited | It's Not a Match.com which I thought was interesting. They had a very very long discussion on this and I'd like to see a different community's viewpoint on this issue. I will quote certain sections of the article and post my own annotations on the subject.

 

So here we have Rosa who is a short woman herself. You would think that she would not mind having a short boyfriend, right? They're always telling us short guys to go after short girls and that girls only want the guy to be taller than THEM. It seems however that it's quite the contrary. Look what she has to say about short men:

 

I am sick and tired of short men approaching me thinking that because I’m a short girl, I like short guys. I HATE SHORT GUYS! Just because I’m short doesn’t mean I don’t prefer the tall, dark, and handsome guys like the rest of us women. I really wish all men shorter than 6’2″ should be rounded up and shot.

All guys...shorter than SIX feet TWO...rounded...up...and SHOT! Meaning that she wants almost 95% of the male population executed. She doesn't stop there:

 

Us women should hold dating sites accountable and demand that they add fraud protection to stop short men from lying about their height. ANY man under 6’1″ IS NOT a compatible match for me. Men who lie about their height or try to conceal their height with elevator [shoes] should be arrested for fraud!

 

You may think this is over-the-top and it may open your mouth out of shock, but it seems like most women generally agree with Rosa's assessment. And look what it has led to. We now have 5'11 guys with short men complex:

 

As an average height guy, 5’11”, I can pretty much get away with dating most girls who insist on just being taller than them. What I can’t get over is my own Napoleon complex, because my dad is 6’3”, my brother 6’4”, my best friend 6’7” and 3/5 of my close friends over 6’3”. I am a short stack wherever I go, and it has warped my psyche.

 

A 5'11 guy with Napoleon complex. Do you realize how pissed Napoleon would be? He'd smack the guy right in the face! Guys who are above the average height bitching. He adds:

 

I’m fit, not ugly, have a thick head of hair, and a good job, but my height insecurities make me only message girls 5’4” and shorter so that there is no way in heels they are taller than me. Call it what you will, but I wouldn’t wish my future child to be anything less than 6’3”.

 

This is just insanity. And there are countless times I have read how shorter guys just kept getting turned down. Here's a 5'7 guy on Yahoo! who claims he is good-looking (that girls said if he was half a foot taller he'd be a ten), listens, is talented, and everything: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130810193023AAiEbnf - but just because he is 2.6 inches shorter than the average height, he keeps getting rejected every single ****ing time. This is not the first guy who has considered killing himself over being short.

 

I as a 16-year old guy who is a tad less than 5'3.25 with parents that 5'7 and 5'0 (so I am not likely passing 5'7 myself), am pretty ****ing demoralized after reading on the internet how crippling being short is. Being of Indian descent doesn't help either. I mean I have really good hygiene, don't have an accent, was raised in America, my parents don't cling to traditional beliefs, and am a counterexample to a lot of the stereotypes made about us. But still, nevertheless, race can also be a disadvantage. However, I am not too worried about race, as much as I am about HEIGHT. Height is ****ing important as you can see from what Rosa said and other anecdotes. A lot of girls' first inclination when asked to date a short guy is, "Eww!"

 

Now I just want to say, I don't blame women for their preference. Us men have our own preferences. And it's not something you can help. So please, don't take this the wrong way. I am not blaming anyone, frankly not even Rosa to some extent. What I am asking is what the **** do we short men do? Do we just let evolution take its course and not reproduce so that only the tall guys pass on their gene? That way the human population will only be tall guys and everyone will be happy, right? Should us short men just kill ourselves and let sexual selection do its job?

[BikerAccnt]

Yeah, it's a bit of a double standard, but we all have em. Just have to live with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The woman I'm going out with is 5'2'. She is tiny. The second time we met she confined in me that she thought I would be taller, that sitting down I looked kinda short..

I'm 5'11' and tower 9 inches over her. I just had to laugh as I patted her on the head and said "short?"

 

 

We are still dating...going on 2 months now.

[Mascara]

Look, if "short" men never got laid, the human race would have evolved to eliminate then. The fact is, many intelligent, funny, interesting "short" men have great success with women. So why not focus on those qualities instead?

 

I don't know what your definition of short is, but if it's under 6' my boyfriend is several inches under that. He's all of the things I describe above.

[soccerrprp]

I don't know a single, sane, guy who is 5'10 or 5'11 who is insecure about their height. As many tall guys get and lose women as short(er) guys. I'm 5'6 and have NEVER had problems dating, getting married, having children.....dating again. I never even knew I was supposed to feel bad about my less than average height until I started dating again 2-yrs ago. I still don't feel insecure about it...

[RonaldS]

One thing that's hilarious on Tinder is women always asking me how tall I am. I usually lie and tell them 5'7", and their disappointment is always so obvious. Then again, many of them sniff that out and tell me that they can tell I'm tall.

 

But it does point to the fact that many women care about height. That being said, lack of height can be compensated for.

 

If you're a really good looking guy with a nice build, you're still going to get women. A guy at my gym is probably only 5'6", but he has Abercrombie model looks and is really athletic, and he just got married to a hot woman who is an inch taller. And there's a trainer there that every girl loves who is about the same height.

 

What women don't want is short and average to below-average looks.

[PegNosePete]

All guys...shorter than SIX feet TWO...rounded...up...and SHOT!

Well she sounds like a really nice human being. Even as someone taller than 6"2, there is no way in hell I would date anyone who wrote THAT on their profile. I am glad she wrote that, so I don't waste my time on someone who believes in Hitler-esque genocide.

[kodakgirl]

Wow, the things that woman said are disgusting. Preferences are fine, but wanting to kill people because they don't meet your specific preferences? That is not only disgusting but very very creepy. That is where genocide comes from. I am 100% sure however that the vast, vast majority of women would never, ever say or think that, even if they wouldn't date short guys. I wish the creator of the article didn't even give her that platform to voice such hateful views.

 

Honestly though, in the "real world", though unfortunately yes, it might make things a bit harder for a guy if he's short, it most certainly does not doom him. He might get less girls overall, but the best kinds of girls aren't going to just toss him.

 

And preferences work both ways. I'm short, 5'2", and I LOVE short guys. My ideal range is 5'6" to 5'8". A man's height comes way, way after just about everything else important to me, and I'd never not date a guy who was tall (I was sort of invovled for a while with a fellow who was 6'4" or so!) but if I like everything else about him and he happens to also be short, that is awesome. A few weeks ago I found a fellow online whose profile I just adored-- he was 5'4". He did write me a really nice message back... saying he was just getting into a relationship with someone.

 

So remember, there are girls like me out there, and even more who might like a taller fellow but would never exclude a shorter one.

[Gingerlee]

I like to think I'm not shallow, but any men under 5 ft 10 is a deal breaker for me. I am not tall, i'm 5 ft 5, a little under average, but wear heels a lot and come from a very tall family. My brother is 6 ft 3, my uncle is about 6 ft 5 and my father is 6 ft 1. I have a lot of tiny friends who agree that height isn't an issue at all. It's all about finding a girl that doesnt care. I don't care about a lot of things, but unfortunately, height is one of them, I just couldn't bring a short bloke back to my giant of a family haha!

[regine_phalange]

I dont mind a man near my height at all (im 1.66m or about 5.5ft). Especially if he has a masculine physique, I dont even think about it. People who claim these things are mentally ill.

Edited March 31, 2014 by regine_phalange

[Imajerk17]

Articles like this make me so glad I don't have this problem.

 

See, I'm only 5'6" but I'm not a short man. Height is a matter of genetics but short is a matter of attitude.

[AD1980]

Wow, the things that woman said are disgusting. Preferences are fine, but wanting to kill people because they don't meet your specific preferences? That is not only disgusting but very very creepy. That is where genocide comes from. I am 100% sure however that the vast, vast majority of women would never, ever say or think that, even if they wouldn't date short guys. I wish the creator of the article didn't even give her that platform to voice such hateful views.

 

 

 

.

 

unfortunately theyres alot of women out there with disdain for short men

 

https://twitter.com/heightismwatch

 

Thats why i laugh when women complain abot how shallow men are when women are plenty shallow as well and maybe even more pickier imo

[iiiii]

Most women prefer tall (and confident, and rich) men.

Most men prefer slender (and young, and pretty) women.

 

If you don't fit that cultural ideal, you're not going to get as much overt attention from the opposite sex. It might not seem fair, but it's just the way life is. There's really no point whinging about it or blaming the opposite sex for their preferences.

[topaMAXX]

Most women prefer tall (and confident, and rich) men.

Most men prefer slender (and young, and pretty) women.

 

If you don't fit that cultural ideal, you're not going to get as much overt attention from the opposite sex. It might not seem fair, but it's just the way life is. There's really no point whinging about it or blaming the opposite sex for their preferences.

 

Not necessarily true.

 

I'm generally one of the shortest guys around (5'6) and I do well and have a decent amount of overt attention. Some of the biggest players I know are around my height.

 

However, I'm also pretty outgoing and fun and I'm good looking (I get compared to James Franco and James Dean).

 

Also, I make good money, but I did WAY better with women when I lived at my parent's house and made no money. I just had more time (and interest) to approach women and date.

 

Though I do acknowledge that short guys that aren't good looking, introverted, and don't have solid social circles probably couldn't get a female to piss on them if they're on fire.

Edited April 6, 2014 by topaMAXX

[ThaWholigan]

unfortunately theyres alot of women out there with disdain for short men

 

https://twitter.com/heightismwatch

 

Thats why i laugh when women complain abot how shallow men are when women are plenty shallow as well and maybe even more pickier imo

You gotta stop reading that twitter, it's clearly affecting you.

 

I showed it to my brother (who assures me that he's actually 5 foot 5 so an inch shorter than I thought) and he just laughed. He got a date with a new girl later that week.

[Bruce Leigh]

As a man who is 5'7 i am ashamed that i have finally turned down a date with a woman who was too short. She is only 4'9-4'10.

Not exactly sure how tall she is but she is the same height as my mates wife.

He loves how little his wife is but i never saw the appeal.

She was waiting for me to ask her out, i knew this from talking to to my mate and his wife but after seeing a photo of the two women together, i haven't bothered asking her out.

I knew she was short when i 1st met her but i didnt realise how short.

She is attractive and " nice and genuine " to use his words.

What makes it worse is that i told my mate i would ask her out, he probably told his wife, she has told the girl i was going to ask out and she is still waiting for me to ask.

And she is the cousin of my mates wife too.

Why do i continue to open these can of worms??