Consolidated Discussion - A man's/woman's height in the search for relationships

[xxoo]

For me personally, I have a general feeling of hopelessness. Which leads me to focus on the thing that I can't change. It's a way for me to prove that there is no hope. I can't do anything about my height, so women will never want me.

 

Also, the things I can change, either have a very small impact, or are not as easy to change as people try to say they are.

 

For example, I know I need friends in my life. Though for me, making real friends is just as hard as finding women to date. Actually, making guy friends is harder than getting women to date me since I've been on a handful of dates and had one real girlfriend, while I haven't been able to make a guy friend in 5 years, despite putting in real effort.

 

This is a topic for a different thread, but maybe you should start a thread about your trouble forging friendships. That certainly has nothing to do with height, so doesn't it stand to reason that the same issues are creating problems in friendships and dating?

[somedude81]

 

She didn't give a damn about your height, obviously. You're just focused on the wrong things - about you, and in what you're hoping to attract (one college girl dating you, doesn't mean that you will attract a flood of them - but I think you'd have better luck if you did develop more interests, as well as interest in the people and the world around you.

I know she didn't give a damn about my height. But she's also the only girl I got into a relationship with.

 

Meaning, I don't know if she was super unique or not. Right now I believe that she's the only woman in the world who doesn't care about my height. And since she's as good as dead to me, that leaves me pretty suck.

 

 

Hokie wanted to take you to Vegas. I remember those posts. I can't remember why it didn't happen, though.

Eh, I don't know him and I wasn't comfortable going to a place like Vegas with somebody I didn't know.

 

Plus I didn't want to be his ugly friend that made him look better.

[MidwestUSA]

 

Eh, I don't know him and I wasn't comfortable going to a place like Vegas with somebody I didn't know.

 

Plus I didn't want to be his ugly friend that made him look better.

 

Here's a really unattractive trait you could start working on right now.

[somedude81]

This is a topic for a different thread, but maybe you should start a thread about your trouble forging friendships. That certainly has nothing to do with height, so doesn't it stand to reason that the same issues are creating problems in friendships and dating?

 

I've already made a few threads about my troubles with making friends. They never got that much attention.

[Imajerk17]

I know of guys in wheelchairs, guys who suffered huge setbacks in life, who have hot girlfriends. The thing that rockets these guys ahead of you--sd81 and pjkino--is that they didn't indulge in all this self-pity. They were too busy moving forward with their lives.

[somedude81]

I know of guys in wheelchairs, guys who suffered huge setbacks in life, who have hot girlfriends. The thing that rockets these guys ahead of you--sd81 and pjkino--is that they didn't indulge in all this self-pity. They were too busy moving forward with their lives.

 

While that's great for them, how I am supposed to benefit at all from that information?

[Weezy1973]

While that's great for them, how I am supposed to benefit at all from that information?

 

By not indulging in self-pity and moving forward with your life? Was that not clear?

[thefooloftheyear]

I think what some of you are not getting is that IME, women dont fall at the feet of every tall guy out there..If a a short guy is superior in all (or even some) other areas, then he'll win out...Again, my experiences..A good looking guy at ANY height will draw attention...It wont matter..

 

I never in my life saw my height as limiting in any way..If they were better than me, then I never saw it as my height...

 

I mean, I could see a 4'11" or 5'1" guy saying that his height was a "problem"...That kinda height makes them an outlier.....Probably no different than a extremely large woman who was 5'11" and 220 lbs..

 

Most guys that are 5'4" to 5'8" will do just fine...provided the other issues in their life were in order and they had no hangups about it..

 

TFY

[topaMAXX]

With all due repsect, you are overcomplicating this...

 

How am I overcomplicating things?

 

For some guys (ie: not me or you), it's difficult to talk to women. They just don't "get" how flirting or dating goes. These kinds of guys will have to learn how to be attractive (if they want to date in the west). Game and PUA is the way to do that. In fact, ALL dating advice that is geared towards men in the west is derived from those things.

 

That is not complicated.

 

Its not a trick or game...Sure you may fool some naive noob girl with some of this "textbook" garbage, but real women(desirable) will see right through this...And you will be mocked and ridiculed over it..

 

Game has nothing to do with textbook openers. I've never used a textbook gimmicks and I've approached thousands of women.

 

I dunno...Like I said, I never in my whole life had to resort to reading books, learning how to get "game".or implementing some sort of "gameplan" to attract women...I wouldnt even know what the hell real "game" was..And I am pretty short as well..I do have a pretty good physique, but I am covered up all the time, so its not like I am using that as a lure..I have no doubt its because i am a confident and self assured guy..I am one of those people that when I talk, everyone listens..And I am a natural leader.....Looks come second..

 

Then you are not one of the guys that needs these things. But, trust me, those guys are out there.

 

IME, its all about confidence and what type of image the world sees of you...You cant fake it...You either have it or you dont...

 

.02

 

TFY

 

Different people develop confidence in different ways.

 

I've done PUA in the past, have a good job that requires a skill that is difficult to obtain, and I go to the gym often.

 

NONE of those things gave me confidence. I developed my confidence from something else entirely.

[topaMAXX]

SD and PJ,

 

I'm not sure what you guys are looking for on here. You seem to want people to say that height doesn't matter...but it does.

 

In my observations, height is the most important physical trait to women.

 

Will you be ruled out for your height alone? Yes. Will you likely fail in online dating? Sure.

 

However, that does not mean that, as a short guy, you are doomed to be alone forever.

 

As others have said here, use what you have. For me, I'm good-looking (specifically my smile and mannerisms are attractive) and have a natural bad boy personality. So I use these things. In fact, I'm so self aware in my movements (and have so much experience) that I can generally predict how women will respond to them.

 

Another thing (for me) is that I'm intelligent. Now, in my experience, women don't really care about intelligence in and of itself, but intelligence allows one to find "life hacks" and be resourceful. This will indirectly land you women.

 

Now, obviously, you guys are intelligent. So I'm sure you can figure something out....

[somedude81]

SD and PJ,

 

I'm not sure what you guys are looking for on here. You seem to want people to say that height doesn't matter...but it does.

Not at all. I want people to admit that it matters. I want them to admit how much harder things are for short guys.

 

Being short has had a profoundly negative impact on my relationships with women. Doing so poorly with women has basically screwed up my life. So when people try to tell me that height doesn't matter, I feel like they are trying to trivialize the suffering I've been through.

 

In my observations, height is the most important physical trait to women.

Damn right it is.

 

Will you be ruled out for your height alone? Yes. Will you likely fail in online dating? Sure.

Yup. Which just makes things harder.

 

However, that does not mean that, as a short guy, you are doomed to be alone forever.

 

As others have said here, use what you have. For me, I'm good-looking (specifically my smile and mannerisms are attractive) and have a natural bad boy personality. So I use these things. In fact, I'm so self aware in my movements (and have so much experience) that I can generally predict how women will respond to them.

You, and thefooloftheyear have been lucky to be blessed with ways to overcome being short. PJKino, AD1980, and myself have not.

 

Nobody wants to admit it, but luck does play a huge part in how we turn out.

Another thing (for me) is that I'm intelligent. Now, in my experience, women don't really care about intelligence in and of itself, but intelligence allows one to find "life hacks" and be resourceful. This will indirectly land you women.

 

Now, obviously, you guys are intelligent. So I'm sure you can figure something out....

"Life hacks" eh? For one, I'm really trying to overcome my handicaps.

 

Physically, there is nothing that gives me an edge. Most likely I'm a 4. I can probably be a 5 if I get my body to a perfect level.

 

Next I'm fighting against my depression which just affects me in so many ways. Combine that with low self-confidence, low motivation and taking rejection too personally, then it should be obvious why I'm doing so poorly.

 

I've tried to find a way to give me an edge with women, for a while I thought that was learning how to dance. But that's obviously not the case.

 

There is nothing at all appealing at me, and I don't really have any ideas how to change that. Of course that thought just brings me down more. It's just a never ending spiral of despair.

 

Frankly, if I wasn't raised Christian, I most likely would have killed myself already.

[Anela]

My Dad is short. He was the only one to get my mother down the aisle (and more than once). He was quiet and shy, but he has a sense of humour that really comes out, once you get to know him. He was in the Air Force, stationed in the London area, when he met my mother: if he hadn't expanded his horizons, and found a way out of Ohio, he never would have met Mum.

 

He went bowling, liked to travel around England, and over here, when they moved to Ohio, and then California. He was almost too busy for my mother - but she liked that he didn't just want to sit on the couch. I sometimes wonder why I've had such trouble, because these two are my parents, and they're great, fun, likable people. I used to be that way, before certain things happened, and I'm ashamed that I didn't make changes sooner - I feel like I've let them down, more than I have myself, even though they would never say that.

[somedude81]

My Dad is short. He was the only one to get my mother down the aisle (and more than once). He was quiet and shy, but he has a sense of humour that really comes out, once you get to know him. He was in the Air Force, stationed in the London area, when he met my mother: if he hadn't expanded his horizons, and found a way out of Ohio, he never would have met Mum.

 

He went bowling, liked to travel around England, and over here, when they moved to Ohio, and then California. He was almost too busy for my mother - but she liked that he didn't just want to sit on the couch. I sometimes wonder why I've had such trouble, because these two are my parents, and they're great, fun, likable people. I used to be that way, before certain things happened, and I'm ashamed that I didn't make changes sooner - I feel like I've let them down, more than I have myself, even though they would never say that.

Sounds like your dad got lucky by meeting your mother.

 

I wish I could tell a very similar story about my life.

[KaliLove]

Why don't you guys just go for short chicks?

[somedude81]

Why don't you guys just go for short chicks?

 

ROFL!

 

As if a woman's height affects the height of the men she's willing to date.

 

Also you seem to be making the error of assuming that we aren't going for short chicks already.

 

I'd date and pursue anybody from 4'5 to 5'9.

[iiiii]

I'm with a guy who is about an inch shorter than me. I adore him.

 

I have never dated a shorter guy before and was a bit wary of the idea at first, but now I rarely notice the height difference.

 

I think most people are willing to compromise their physical fantasy ideal of a partner if a person is a good enough fit in all other ways.

[iiiii]

ROFL!

 

As if a woman's height affects the height of the men she's willing to date.

 

Somedude, for some women, it absolutely does. Many women I know strongly prefer to date a guy that is the same height as they are (or taller). The relative height difference (i.e. the fact the guy is not shorter) is more important to some women than the actual height of the guy.

[Anela]

Sounds like your dad got lucky by meeting your mother.

 

I wish I could tell a very similar story about my life.

 

Well, he might say so, but he also put himself out there. He made plans - he got out into the world.

 

He has admitted here and there, to not liking his height so much, but he didn't let it stop him. He was a cocky kid, but shy around girls. He met Mum through friends, but she thought he didn't like her on their first date, because he was so shy, and awkward. He eventually shyly asked her if he could give her a kiss, and she realized that he did like her, and she said yes. They were married later the following Summer.

[KaliLove]

A good friend of mine is 5'. She's married to a guy who's 5'5. She's never dated anyone over 5'7, and she's never wanted to.

[somedude81]

I'm with a guy who is about an inch shorter than me. I adore him.

 

I have never dated a shorter guy before and was a bit wary of the idea at first, but now I rarely notice the height difference.

 

I think most people are willing to compromise their physical fantasy ideal of a partner if a person is a good enough fit in all other ways.

Great for you! I hope the two of you work out.

 

More women need to give short guys a chance.

Somedude, for some women, it absolutely does. Many women I know strongly prefer to date a guy that is the same height as they are (or taller). The relative height difference (i.e. the fact the guy is not shorter) is more important to some women than the actual height of the guy.

I meant to say that just because a woman is short does not mean that she's more willing to date short guys. Meaning, short or tall, she'd prefer a tall guy.

[somedude81]

Well, he might say so, but he also put himself out there. He made plans - he got out into the world.

 

He has admitted here and there, to not liking his height so much, but he didn't let it stop him. He was a cocky kid, but shy around girls. He met Mum through friends, but she thought he didn't like her on their first date, because he was so shy, and awkward. He eventually shyly asked her if he could give her a kiss, and she realized that he did like her, and she said yes. They were married later the following Summer.

 

I've definitely put myself out there. I've been rejected by about 25 girls that I really liked. They ranged from acquaintances to coworkers, to class mates, to my best friends.

 

I've tried to meet women in many different situations and I've been rejected by women of every single race.

[topaMAXX]

Not at all. I want people to admit that it matters. I want them to admit how much harder things are for short guys.

 

Being short has had a profoundly negative impact on my relationships with women. Doing so poorly with women has basically screwed up my life. So when people try to tell me that height doesn't matter, I feel like they are trying to trivialize the suffering I've been through.

 

Most men (even taller ones) admit that short guys have it tougher.

 

One of your problems is that you still look to women for meaningful dating advice. You seriously need to stop doing that. You will be happier and more successful if you do.

 

You, and thefooloftheyear have been lucky to be blessed with ways to overcome being short. PJKino, AD1980, and myself have not.

 

Nobody wants to admit it, but luck does play a huge part in how we turn out.

 

In some ways, yes. I also believe that you make your own luck in many other ways.

 

"Life hacks" eh? For one, I'm really trying to overcome my handicaps.

 

Physically, there is nothing that gives me an edge. Most likely I'm a 4. I can probably be a 5 if I get my body to a perfect level.

 

Next I'm fighting against my depression which just affects me in so many ways. Combine that with low self-confidence, low motivation and taking rejection too personally, then it should be obvious why I'm doing so poorly.

 

Life hacks starts with positivity and resourcefulness. You won't find them if you're beating yourself up constantly.

 

I've tried to find a way to give me an edge with women, for a while I thought that was learning how to dance. But that's obviously not the case.

 

Dude, women don't care about your interests. They don't care about your job, your income, or your education. And they don't care about your looks as much as you think.

 

All that matters is hitting the right buttons. Women generally respond to the same thing and like the same types of guys.

 

Any guy that tells you differently is probably not in tune with his actions (basically, he probably IS that guy and naturally pushes the right buttons).

 

Any women that tell you differently, well, don't take advice from women.

 

There is nothing at all appealing at me, and I don't really have any ideas how to change that. Of course that thought just brings me down more. It's just a never ending spiral of despair.

 

Frankly, if I wasn't raised Christian, I most likely would have killed myself already.

 

Stop being so reactive to women. They're seriously not worth it at all.

 

I suggest focusing on practicing life hacking skills.

 

What are your goals besides dating?

[ayala]

I have yet to actually meet a guy that was shorter than me...

 

<- under 5 feet (147cm, apparently lol)

[thefooloftheyear]

How am I overcomplicating things?

 

By implying that you need to have some sort of "game plan" to meet women...Not in my experience..

 

For some guys (ie: not me or you), it's difficult to talk to women. They just don't "get" how flirting or dating goes. These kinds of guys will have to learn how to be attractive (if they want to date in the west). Game and PUA is the way to do that. In fact, ALL dating advice that is geared towards men in the west is derived from those things.

 

That is not complicated.

 

I have no "game"..Zero...Ive never taken any advice from anyone about what to do with women.Any attention from wonen has come from women..I dont cold approach women and never once in my life asked for a womans number(yes, its true..)..I generally dont talk to strangers off the street(male or female)and find it extremely weird when I see someone obviously "hitting" on a woman..What I am is a natural leader, I have a quiet confidence and positive outlook...

 

 

 

Game has nothing to do with textbook openers. I've never used a textbook gimmicks and I've approached thousands of women.

 

Thats a thousand more than me...Yet I can guarantee that you likely havent had more "success" than me..

 

 

 

Then you are not one of the guys that needs these things. But, trust me, those guys are out there.

 

 

Ill accept that....

 

 

Different people develop confidence in different ways.

 

I've done PUA in the past, have a good job that requires a skill that is difficult to obtain, and I go to the gym often.

 

NONE of those things gave me confidence. I developed my confidence from something else entirely.

 

IM not saying you are wrong or have bad intention..I just find the whole "false swagger" of some of that crap to be nothing but nonsense and puffery...Real "game" (if you want to call it that) doesnt come from self help books...It comes by how someone lives their life, what they do, and you cant "employ" it like turning in a light switch..If you tell a guy like SD to use that as a way to meet women, I bet you hed fall flat on his face..It will look awkward and contrived..Putting a set of shiny rims on some hooptie doesnt turn it into a Ferrari...Its just a piece of shyt with shiny rims? See?

 

Women are smart...I bet you can lasso some dumb or naive woman with that garbage(PUA), but a real high quality woman will sniff that out in a hearbeat and make a jackass out of the guy who tries it..

 

IMO, the issue with a guy like SD seems so easy to fix....Im not a woman, but I can see clear as day why they are rejecting him..He doesnt get it or want to accept it..I do wish him well..

 

TFY

Edited May 23, 2014 by thefooloftheyear

[MidwestUSA]

Not at all. I want people to admit that it matters. I want them to admit how much harder things are for short guys.

 

Physically, there is nothing that gives me an edge. Most likely I'm a 4. I can probably be a 5 if I get my body to a perfect level.

 

Next I'm fighting against my depression which just affects me in so many ways. Combine that with low self-confidence, low motivation and taking rejection too personally, then it should be obvious why I'm doing so poorly.

 

I've tried to find a way to give me an edge with women, for a while I thought that was learning how to dance. But that's obviously not the case.

 

There is nothing at all appealing at me, and I don't really have any ideas how to change that.

 

Look at the things you listed that you can change, then get to it. Why you are convinced height is your problem, I'll never understand. You can overcome depression, gain confidence, get motivated, etc. etc, but you'd rather blame your 'luck' on your height.

 

You've been here for years with everyone telling you the same thing, with not the slightest hint of improvement.

 

Carry on.