Consolidated Discussion - A man's/woman's height in the search for relationships

[silicone]

God this is a mess.

 

My perspective, and it I'd limited. Being short relative to the women and other me. Is a limiting factor, in fact it's a significant factor, I feel. However, it is a factor. Your attitude and the rest will need to make up for it. Those things do not mainly come from your other qualifications though these are a productive indicator of your grip on things and earlier decisions.

 

About 70% of women will discount you based off their peers' opinions. Your challenge is to use everything else that you can to overcome this. No one can do this but you. Use whatever tools you have, but remember, we live in a shallow world and it's a tough love. For me, I worked out, actually didn't care about aesthetics, but went for strength. One thing a girl loves is strength. They want to say: I can feel that he protects me. Yes, I've slept with married / taken women, don't do that, you don't want to know what it feels like to have a toddler crawling on you in the morning with a woman trying to get you out before her husband comes home.

 

Attitude: you need to believe in yourself. Easier said than done, and I feel like a right hypocrite because even I haven't mastered it. You've about 10 years on me, and I was forced into the deepened of things. I travelled and learned things about myself. I'm a military officer and I am disciplined.

 

Be resourceful, be skilful, be someone people want to know. Enhance your market value by being social: excel at what you are good at. Do what you enjoy and don't force yourself to do something, especially not for something else. I took up wrestling.

[silicone]

I suck at flirting, yet I still flirted with the nurses at the hospital over something as silly as my bear coat (I'm hairy as heck).

[KaliLove]

Look over my past posts. I'm not in the mood to detail it all out for you.

 

 

LOL.

 

No they can't.

 

My ex didn't have a clue at all about any of my issues.

 

None of my female friends ever knew a thing about my insecurity either. Frankly, women are horrible at reading men, or else they would never end up in abusive relationships.

 

Just because a woman doesn't come right out and tell you that she knows you're insecure doesn't mean she doesn't know. If you think a woman is not attractive, do you say to her directly 'hey, you're ugly'?

 

If you do, you might be a sociopath..just saying...

 

You're not dumb and you're not ugly..so something is driving women away from you. As a woman, I can guarantee you that it's the lack of confidence and the attitude. Again..therapy..it helps!

 

Also..bragging about how you had sex for a few months last year..also not attractive. But kind of funny.

[KaliLove]

I suck at flirting, yet I still flirted with the nurses at the hospital over something as silly as my bear coat (I'm hairy as heck).

 

See, that is funny. If a guy came over to me and started making fun of something he was insecure about, I'd probably be more attracted to him. A good sense of humor is extremely attractive.

[R3d]

Just because a woman doesn't come right out and tell you that she knows you're insecure doesn't mean she doesn't know.

But how can they tell when you're insecure if you don't say anything about it?

[KaliLove]

But how can they tell when you're insecure if you don't say anything about it?

 

Body language. Attitude. General vibes. They way you talk about certain things. Social cues. Etc etc etc. Even if they don't understand exactly what the issue is, they will know something is off.

 

I'm sure you've heard the term poker face before. Most people do not apply their poker faces to their real lives. You don't have to talk about something for people to pick up on it..or at least for them to pick up on something.

 

Have you really never felt someone's mood before without them literally stating 'I'm in a bad mood' or 'I'm happy'? I'd be willing to bet you have. It's the same thing with desperation or insecurity. Someone doesn't need to come out and say they're feeling insecure, or that they're desperate. It'll just show.

[silicone]

See, that is funny. If a guy came over to me and started making fun of something he was insecure about, I'd probably be more attracted to him. A good sense of humor is extremely attractive.

 

I don't think I'm necessarily insecure about it, it is a part of me .. If you're going to want me, you'll probably need to be ok with this

 

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/0EEfjUGc1Io/maxresdefault.jpg

[xxoo]

But how can they tell when you're insecure if you don't say anything about it?

 

There are so many subtle tells, and it's not just Women who can tell. Men can, too.

 

If you've never picked up on this stuff work other people, you might not understand. For most people, it's just obvious through what people say AND don't say, and how the say it. Also, body language and even style choices can express insecurity.

[KaliLove]

Sorry Yogi..I was using you as an example. I don't mean that you are necessarily insecure about your fur coat.

 

You're adorable, but why are you naked and why is Conan O'Brien molesting you in that picture?

[Potz4prez]

This thread is a **** show haha

 

See, that is funny. If a guy came over to me and started making fun of something he was insecure about, I'd probably be more attracted to him. A good sense of humor is extremely attractive.

 

When out with girls I compare who's paler, does that count? -.-

[silicone]

Sorry Yogi..I was using you as an example. I don't mean that you are necessarily insecure about your fur coat.

 

You're adorable, but why are you naked and why is Conan O'Brien molesting you in that picture?

 

Hehe

 

Keeping myself cool with a fur coat isn't that easy!

 

I guess he wanted a piece of my fur as well

[Bruce Leigh]

See, that is funny. If a guy came over to me and started making fun of something he was insecure about, I'd probably be more attracted to him.

 

Just don't over do the poking fun at yourself. This can be a turn-off too.

[somedude81]

Just because a woman doesn't come right out and tell you that she knows you're insecure doesn't mean she doesn't know. If you think a woman is not attractive, do you say to her directly 'hey, you're ugly'?

I really don't think that's it at all.

 

When I'm with girls, the very last thing on my mind is my issues. They'd be having to look really deep into me to see my insecurity.

 

As I said, if women were so good at reading men, how do they end up getting surprised by guys who turn out to be control freaks and abusers?

You're not dumb and you're not ugly..so something is driving women away from you.

No, I'm not driving women away. I can very easily make friends with women if I wanted to.

 

What I'm not doing is attracting them to me.

 

Not being able to attract women, and driving them away are two completely different things.

 

You said I'm not ugly, but am I physically attractive? Keep in mind that I'm 5'6.

 

It's extremely hard to get dates when women aren't physically attracted to me. Women don't get turned on by my body.

 

Also..bragging about how you had sex for a few months last year..also not attractive. But kind of funny.

I'm not really bragging. Just pointing out that it actually happened. Frankly it's a huge deal to me. Before I got my ex GF at 31, I've had sex about 10 times in my entire life. It was basically having sex one time a year for 10 years. Then in the time I was with my GF, I had sex more times than I could count.

 

Also many people seem to think that I'm a complete loser who nobody would want, and it's my way of proving to them, that I did have a GF who was beautiful, sweet and very intelligent. And I desperately miss her.

[KaliLove]

Again..blaming everything on your height. Such a cop out.

[somedude81]

Again..blaming everything on your height. Such a cop out.

And that's the last I'll ever reply to you.

[topaMAXX]

And that's the last I'll ever reply to you.

 

As a short good-looking guy that has generally been pretty successful with women, I still believe that height is the most important physical characteristic that a man can have, above looks, body shape, etc.

 

If it wasn't of the utmost importance, you would see way more mismatched couples. But the vast majority of couples that you see out will have the man taller than the woman, with less couples being of equal height. Then, very occasionally, you will see a slightly taller woman/shorter man couple.

 

It's my opinion that, to many taller women, a shorter man is automatically out. It's not even up for discussion because it's an absolute dealbreaker.

 

Now, of course, one can make up for a lack of height....but that doesn't mean that it is not the most important physical trait.

 

As I said, I don't have issues with my height and I do well with woman. I consider this to be objective analysis.

[silicone]

As a short good-looking guy that has generally been pretty successful with women, I still believe that height is the most important physical characteristic that a man can have, above looks, body shape, etc.

 

If it wasn't of the utmost importance, you would see way more mismatched couples. But the vast majority of couples that you see out will have the man taller than the woman, with less couples being of equal height. Then, very occasionally, you will see a slightly taller woman/shorter man couple.

 

It's my opinion that, to many taller women, a shorter man is automatically out. It's not even up for discussion because it's an absolute dealbreaker.

 

Now, of course, one can make up for a lack of height....but that doesn't mean that it is not the most important physical trait.

 

As I said, I don't have issues with my height and I do well with woman. I consider this to be objective analysis.

 

How tall are you?

[clia]

I know that thread wasn't about me. If it was about me, I would have actually been offended.

 

I was pointing out how big of a deal it is for a guy to be tall and how important it is to women.

 

You yourself have said that being tall is an advantage for a guy. So I'm not even sure why we're having this discussion.

 

We're having the discussion because you dragged my post over here.

 

Let me clarify what I mean by height being an "advantage."

 

There are probably hundreds of different characteristics that make up an individual. Some are physical -- height, weight, boob size, build, nose size, hair color, hair length, lip size, teeth, eye color, eye shape, voice, smell, baldness, curly/straight hair, complexion, symmetry of face, cheekbones, etc. Some are personality driven -- sense of humor, extroversion/introversion personality attributes, ambition, drive, kindness, consideration for others, empathy, intelligence, wit, etc. Some are more external type things (I don't know how to describe these exactly) -- your education level, job, salary, type of car you drive, the place you live, whether you have roommates, what your furniture looks like, what kind of music, books, movies, TV shows you like (or if you like those things at all), what you like to do for fun, what kind of food you like to eat, hobbies, interests, relationship with your family, friends, do you like to travel, where do you like to travel, what do you like to do on the weekends, etc.

 

All of these types of things make up the person.

 

This is just a small sample of the types of things both women and men look at when they are sizing up someone for a relationship. Different people place priority on different things. For some women, height may be a big priority. For others, it may not be a priority at all. Everyone is different.

 

Now, by "advantage" I merely mean that most women are unlikely to rule a guy out because he's too tall. (Although some women will.) Whereas, there are women who will rule out a guy because he's too short. So, okay, your sample size of women might be smaller. But who cares? Work with what you have. Why are you worrying about the women who are ruling you out because you are too short? Why don't you worry about the women who don't care about your height? Why don't you worry about the women who place a higher priority on some of the other attributes I listed above, and work on developing those attributes?

 

Men and women get rejected for various reasons all the time, some of them physical, others based on some of the other characteristics I listed above. You yourself do not want an obese woman -- and that's totally your preference. Do you think non-obese women have an advantage over obese women in dating? Do you think women with smaller noses have an advantage over women with bigger noses? Do you think men with hair (like yourself) have an advantage over bald men? Do you think women without acne have an advantage over women with acne? Etc. Do you think people who are friendly and nice have an advantage over people who are rude? Do you think people who go out and socialize have an advantage over people who stay inside and surf the Internet all day long?

 

My point is that you can't just look at one thing (like height), and blame all of your dating failures on that one thing. Who cares if some women don't want to be with short men? We're allowed to have preferences in what type of person we want to partner up with. Right? Focus on the women for whom your height isn't an issue. Frankly, you are not that short. The average woman is shorter than you.

 

Obviously there are plenty of guys who are shorter who have no problem getting women (many who are posting on this thread) -- because they don't give a fig about the women who want tall men, and likely have lots of other great qualities to offer as well. Hell, I work with a guy who is 5'3" and bald who never had any problem getting dates. He could've taken a different woman home every night if he wanted to back when he was single. His wife is around 5'6" (and gorgeous).

 

The only thing stopping you is you -- not your height.

[Imajerk17]

SD, I mentioned this in another thread, but I will say it again.

 

You react emotionally and got all upset when clia said to someone else that his height would be something of an asset. This was said in an off-handed manner, in someone else's thread, had additional context, and had nothing to do with you too. And she has said many times before and after, that height might help but it's not the only thing.

 

Yet as offended and upset as you were to clia's innocent taken-out-of-context comment to a poster about his height helping, you shamelessly go on and on here about how you prefer slender busty women. So, I wonder how you think women are taking your remarks. Do you really think your "but it's not a deal breaker" changes it much? I mean, clia keeps telling you over and over that your height isn't that big a deal but you're still upset.

 

I could go a couple directions with this. #empathy #GlassHouses.....

Edited May 27, 2014 by Imajerk17

[Potz4prez]

Again..blaming everything on your height. Such a cop out.

 

And that's the last I'll ever reply to you.

 

<3

 

(ten characters)

[somedude81]

Thank you clia for the very well thought out post.

 

This is just a small sample of the types of things both women and men look at when they are sizing up someone for a relationship. Different people place priority on different things. For some women, height may be a big priority. For others, it may not be a priority at all. Everyone is different.

 

Now, by "advantage" I merely mean that most women are unlikely to rule a guy out because he's too tall. (Although some women will.) Whereas, there are women who will rule out a guy because he's too short. So, okay, your sample size of women might be smaller. But who cares? Work with what you have. Why are you worrying about the women who are ruling you out because you are too short? Why don't you worry about the women who don't care about your height? Why don't you worry about the women who place a higher priority on some of the other attributes I listed above, and work on developing those attributes?

Why do I care if some women rule me out because they think I'm too short?

 

Simple, I'm afraid that a very large percentage of women rule me out because of my height. And I believe that it's extremely unfair to be ruled out for something that I have zero control over.

 

I don't know how large the sample size of women that don't care about height is. Next, I don't know who those women are. There is no way to tell if a woman is fine dating short guys or not. The only way I can tell is to see if her current BF is short or maybe I knew that she dated short guys in the past. Other than that, it's just a blind shot in the dark and all I can do is hope that she's fine dating short men.

 

Then, those women who are fine dating short men, tend to have more relaxed standards in general and they tend to already be taken. It doesn't do me any good if X is fine dating short guys, but she has a boyfriend. What should I do, wait in line?

 

All I can do is keep trying to date with the handicap of being short while having absolutely no idea if the women I'm trying to pursue would ever consider dating a man my height.

 

Frankly, you are not that short. The average woman is shorter than you.

Tell that to the women who are under 5'3 and will only date men 5'10 or taller.

 

Several of them have posted on this forum.

 

 

Obviously there are plenty of guys who are shorter who have no problem getting women (many who are posting on this thread) -- because they don't give a fig about the women who want tall men, and likely have lots of other great qualities to offer as well. Hell, I work with a guy who is 5'3" and bald who never had any problem getting dates. He could've taken a different woman home every night if he wanted to back when he was single. His wife is around 5'6" (and gorgeous).

Those men have figured out ways to overcome their height. Many of them were lucky enough to never have a problem at all because while they had bad luck with their height, they were lucky to receive charismatic personalities.

 

I don't have any natural positives that women care about. So I have to work extremely hard to develop something that women are interested in. My results have been very poor. I managed to get lucky one time, then that luck just ran out.

 

I haven't given up, but I'm getting tired of the struggle. It would have been great if my ex just could have been happy with me then I could be done with the stupid dating game.

Edited May 27, 2014 by somedude81

[somedude81]

 

Yet as offended and upset as you were to clia's innocent taken-out-of-context comment to a poster about his height helping, you shamelessly go on and on here about how you prefer slender busty women. So, I wonder how you think women are taking your remarks. Do you really think your "but it's not a deal breaker" changes it much? I mean, clia keeps telling you over and over that your height isn't that big a deal but you're still upset.

 

Why would anybody be upset when I say that I am very attracted to women with large breasts though I'm more than OK with women who are smaller breasted?

 

If a woman said, "I'm very attracted to tall guys, but I have no issues dating shorter guys", do you think I'd be offended or upset by her comment? Hell no.

 

I'm all for people having things that turn them on, as long as they don't also have exclusions.

 

There are probably tons of women out there who prefers a guy to have a larger than average penis, but is perfectly fine with guys who are average to smaller than average. Only an idiot would get offended.

[clia]

Why do I care if some women rule me out because they think I'm too short?

 

Simple, I'm afraid that a very large percentage of women rule me out because of my height. And I believe that it's extremely unfair to be ruled out for something that I have zero control over.

 

Everyone on the planet has been ruled out for something they have zero control over. There is no use dwelling on it.

 

I don't know how large the sample size of women that don't care about height is. Next, I don't know who those women are. There is no way to tell if a woman is fine dating short guys or not. The only way I can tell is to see if her current BF is short or maybe I knew that she dated short guys in the past. Other than that, it's just a blind shot in the dark and all I can do is hope that she's fine dating short men.

 

Everything about dating is a blind shot in the dark until you get to know someone. That's just the way it is -- for everything.

 

All I can do is keep trying to date with the handicap of being short while having absolutely no idea if the women I'm trying to pursue would ever consider dating a man my height.

 

This is why you have to pursue a lot of women. You waste far too much time contemplating the exactly perfect scenario to ask a woman out, and put in far too much time trying to decide what to do and what to say and what if this happens and what if that happens. You pursue, ask out, move on if you get rejected. Play the numbers.

Tell that to the women who are under 5'3 and will only date men 5'10 or taller.

 

Several of them have posted on this forum.

 

Great. Those women are not for you. This reminds me of an old Oprah Winfrey episode. Back in the day before she gave Dr. Phil his own show, she had him on, and she was complaining about her weight problems. She said (paraphrasing) "But some people can eat whatever they want and not gain any weight," and he said (paraphrasing) "That's great, but that person isn't you! You can't worry about what other people can do; you have to be concerned with yourself." It's the same thing for you. If a woman isn't interested in dating you, so what, move on.

 

I haven't given up, but I'm getting tired of the struggle. It would have been great if my ex just could have been happy with me then I could be done with the stupid dating game.

 

I don't see that you've put a whole lot of effort into getting a girlfriend, other than inside your head. I mean, what struggle? The only girls you pursue are those in your classes. You asked out a few of them, and they had boyfriends. Dating is a huge numbers game. You don't play the numbers. It's been six months since your relationship ended, and how many women have you actually asked out on a date? You will not succeed unless you actually put forth the effort, try to meet women in a variety of different scenarios, and ask women out. Eventually one of them will say yes.

 

Let me tell you about another guy, a friend of my fiance. He's around your height, actually. Not a tall guy. He's in his mid 50s. He pursues women like crazy. Whenever we are out he goes up to women and talks to them. If they reject him, he moves on to someone else. He gets a ton of dates. Every week he is going out with different women, who he met on the weekends. And there isn't anything particularly special about him -- he's average looking, has a decent job, etc. But he puts himself out there, plays the numbers, and as a result gets a lot of women. You have to at least try. Until you do, I don't see how you can complain about some horrible "struggle."

[Bruce Leigh]

I haven't given up, but I'm getting tired of the struggle. It would have been great if my ex just could have been happy with me then I could be done with the stupid dating game.

 

Sounds like you are jaded. Take a few steps back, take stock, make adjustments (big or small) and don't rush back into it. Try to be more relaxed about it all.

[thefooloftheyear]

Still puzzles the hell out of me why anyone thinks its some great disadvantage to be shorter?

 

 

Quite frankly I am thrilled to be what some would consider "short"...Id NEVER want to be tall, unless-quite frankly I could be also have a physique like Dwayne Johnson..And most taller guys cant..At least not as easily as a shorter guy can..

 

-While I am self employed. What I do has a definite advantage being shorter...

 

-See above...I like being big and strong..I can smoke most taller guys in terms of lifting pundages and size...I build muscle very easily..

 

-At my height, I am pretty much taller than most women anyway..

 

-Now that I have gotten a bit older, its clearly evident that the taller you are the more prone you are to various joint failures...Dont believe me? ask an ortho surgeon..,My best friend is 6-7"..He is the same age as I am and is literally falling apart..Knees, hips, back...all dead...He can barely walk, even after two total knee replacements..Same true for my other taller buddies..I have never been under the knife for anything and I am as strong as an ox..

 

-When I see a taller guy, most of the time they look gangly ...Long arms, wide hips, big feet, pear shaped body, etc...To use a dog analogy, they are like 150 lb Great Danes or Bernese Mountain Dog and I am like an 85 lb Pit Bull..

 

Why there are women out there(esp smaller women) who think its some "advantage" I have no idea...They cant even themselves come up with a legitimate reason why, but who cares...? Let them have what they want..

No different than the guy that cant go with a flat chested woman..

 

Own it and live it...Its just not an issue..

 

TFY