Consolidated Discussion - A man's/woman's height in the search for relationships

[sillyanswer]

Not at all. I want people to admit that it matters. I want them to admit how much harder things are for short guys.

 

Height matters.

 

Will having everyone else admit it make it easier for short guys? I'm guessing no easier than having short guys going on about height being a challenge for them all the time.

 

Now sing along with me...

 

You've got to accentuate the positive

eliminate the negative

Latch on to the affirmative

But don't mess with mister inbetween

[thefooloftheyear]

Ive never saw my height(5'6") as a liability....In fact, in many ways I viewed it as an asset..

 

TFY

[topaMAXX]

Unfortunately, the writing format in which you responded makes it difficult to respond to you. So I will respond to the response that is quotable.

 

Though, you did mention something above that I would like to address. You mention that you never made a cold approach. This would explain why you're view is so slanted. Dating women in your social circles and dating women on cold approach are very different things.

 

As a guy that has moved around a lot, I've had to rely on cold approach a lot. Social circles, of course, are way easier.

 

With cold approach, you will likely have to do many before getting good at it. And you will be rejected because of things like height multiple times. Though, to be fair, out of all of the cold approaches that I made, no woman (not once) ever mentioned anything about my height, as many guys on here suggest that they do. Of course, I'm not naive to believe that it wasn't a factor in at least a few of my rejections.

 

IM not saying you are wrong or have bad intention..I just find the whole "false swagger" of some of that crap to be nothing but nonsense and puffery...Real "game" (if you want to call it that) doesnt come from self help books...It comes by how someone lives their life, what they do, and you cant "employ" it like turning in a light switch..If you tell a guy like SD to use that as a way to meet women, I bet you hed fall flat on his face..It will look awkward and contrived..Putting a set of shiny rims on some hooptie doesnt turn it into a Ferrari...Its just a piece of shyt with shiny rims? See?

 

Again, it's not "false swagger". It's learning how to meet and date women. These days, masculinity is severely watered down. Most men do not have father figures to show them the ropes. I know I didn't....

 

Furthermore, women have many many options to choose from (they are the selectors). So you have to be pretty spot-on in your approach to dating to get women.

 

I've seen guys literally go from getting slapped regularly to getting laid regularly. It can and does happen for sure.

 

Women are smart...I bet you can lasso some dumb or naive woman with that garbage(PUA), but a real high quality woman will sniff that out in a hearbeat and make a jackass out of the guy who tries it..

 

What's your definition of PUA? I'm not talking about negs and the like. I'm talking about actually trying to improve your skills with women. So, in essence, you're not tricking anyone. You're basically changing your habits in order to attract women.

 

As I said, women generally are attracted to the same things. In many cases, behavioral adjustments could be all that is needed to completely change a guy's outcome.

 

IMO, the issue with a guy like SD seems so easy to fix....Im not a woman, but I can see clear as day why they are rejecting him..He doesnt get it or want to accept it..I do wish him well..

 

TFY

 

I do agree that SD needs to get a job, if for no other reason than to support himself. However, I don't see him getting better with just that, going to the gym, and developing hobbies.

 

A guy that is as old as him and still struggling significantly needs more experience with women.

[somedude81]

 

IMO, the issue with a guy like SD seems so easy to fix....Im not a woman, but I can see clear as day why they are rejecting him..He doesnt get it or want to accept it..I do wish him well..

 

TFY

 

Why do you say my issues seem so easy to fix? Is there something I haven't tried yet?

 

I'm 32 and have tried many, many approaches with women.

 

I have not been able to fix what I'm doing wrong. I got lucky once in my entire life, and then my luck just ran out.

 

I need a lot more experience with women, and it's just so freaking hard to get women to give me a chance.

[Potz4prez]

SD needs therapy, plain and simple. Don't worry about women until you get your mind and life on the right track. Dating with the mentality you have right now will only make things worse.

[somedude81]

SD needs therapy, plain and simple. Don't worry about women until you get your mind and life on the right track. Dating with the mentality you have right now will only make things worse.

 

I've already done therapy. It didn't make me feel any better.

 

What did make me feel better, so good that I completely forget all of my problems, my depressions, my issues, my height, all of that BS; was having a girlfriend.

[thefooloftheyear]

I've already done therapy. It didn't make me feel any better.

 

What did make me feel better, so good that I completely forget all of my problems, my depressions, my issues, my height, all of that BS; was having a girlfriend.

 

 

You need to understand why this line of thinking is so warped.....

 

TFY

[xxoo]

Why do you say my issues seem so easy to fix? Is there something I haven't tried yet?

 

I'm 32 and have tried many, many approaches with women.

 

I have not been able to fix what I'm doing wrong. I got lucky once in my entire life, and then my luck just ran out.

 

I need a lot more experience with women, and it's just so freaking hard to get women to give me a chance.

 

You are trying to stay essentially the same and fix how you interact with women.

 

What you need to do is change fundamental things about your life, and dating will be much, much easier.

 

Your focus should be....should always have been....on getting a timely education, getting a good job, networking and making social connections (not necessarily the same as friends, but including friends), and generally setting and reaching goals for yourself. Your singular focus on dating has been your ironic downfall.

[topaMAXX]

You are trying to stay essentially the same and fix how you interact with women.

 

What you need to do is change fundamental things about your life, and dating will be much, much easier.

 

Your focus should be....should always have been....on getting a timely education, getting a good job, networking and making social connections (not necessarily the same as friends, but including friends), and generally setting and reaching goals for yourself. Your singular focus on dating has been your ironic downfall.

 

Again, none of the things that you mention are particularly attractive to women. A good education and good job are icing on the cake. They will, in no way, CREATE any kind of attraction (especially among western women that don't need that kind of stability).

 

Also, if SD reached all of his goals, women would not care. He would still have difficulty attracting them.

 

SD's true downfall is that he wastes going to dance class when he should be out approaching constantly and seeing what women respond to and what they don't. SD, unlike TFY, does not attract women naturally.

 

So if he wants to attract women, he will have to repetitively practice conscious behaviors that do attract them until they become subconscious (and, thus, natural).

[R3d]

I've already done therapy. It didn't make me feel any better.

 

What did make me feel better, so good that I completely forget all of my problems, my depressions, my issues, my height, all of that BS; was having a girlfriend.

 

I have been reading your posts and I have to say, you sound a lot like me in how I think. It's like we have the same type of brain.

 

I said the same thing - all my issues (like height and race) would go away by simply having a girlfriend.

[MidwestUSA]

Again, none of the things that you mention are particularly attractive to women. A good education and good job are icing on the cake. They will, in no way, CREATE any kind of attraction (especially among western women that don't need that kind of stability).

 

However, a job right now, ANY job, would surely benefit a 32 year old who admits he's running out of money. Approaching his last semester, and without having pulled a full course load this last one, he should be interning in his field.

 

You don't think that lack of drive is a turnoff to any woman? How many free dates will the modern materialistic woman (or even 21 year old girl) put up with?

[somedude81]

You are trying to stay essentially the same and fix how you interact with women.

 

What you need to do is change fundamental things about your life, and dating will be much, much easier.

 

Your focus should be....should always have been....on getting a timely education, getting a good job, networking and making social connections (not necessarily the same as friends, but including friends), and generally setting and reaching goals for yourself. Your singular focus on dating has been your ironic downfall.

 

I'm trying to finish up my education as fast as I can. Assuming no more setbacks (God forbid) I should be able to graduate in December.

 

topaMAXX has a point. Finishing up my degree and getting a job are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. How many women in college are dating guys who have degrees and are working on their careers?

 

No I'm not college age, but when I was, dating wasn't any easier for me. Having a real job then wouldn't have made me any more appealing. I also did have friends.

 

The whole basis of my problems, and that of many other men, is that I just don't know how to interact with women.

 

I was very lucky that my ex gave me a chance. I really need that to happen again so I can keep learning. But I don't know if lightning will strike twice.

[Weezy1973]

I'm trying to finish up my education as fast as I can. Assuming no more setbacks (God forbid) I should be able to graduate in December.

 

topaMAXX has a point. Finishing up my degree and getting a job are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. How many women in college are dating guys who have degrees and are working on their careers?

 

No I'm not college age, but when I was, dating wasn't any easier for me. Having a real job then wouldn't have made me any more appealing. I also did have friends.

 

The whole basis of my problems, and that of many other men, is that I just don't know how to interact with women.

 

I was very lucky that my ex gave me a chance. I really need that to happen again so I can keep learning. But I don't know if lightning will strike twice.

 

The whole basis of your problem is that you have a very low self worth. This is one of the reasons your happiness is so dependent on having a girlfriend.

 

The problem of course is that self worth actually comes from within and not from other people. Feeling wanted by someone else will temporarily mask the underlying issue (which will feel great even though it inevitably will be short lived), but mark my words, those feelings of worthlessness will return.

 

If you naturally struggle with self worth it takes A LOT of hard work to get it. Essentially you have to do some introspection, figure your values in all aspects of life, and then live consistently by those values.

 

I get the impression that you don't really want to nail down any of your values just in case you meet a cute girl that has different ones. That is a mistake in my opinion. Figure out your values. Live by those values (even if it means rejecting a cute girl because she has different ones).

 

If you live by your values you won't even care if you get rejected because you're short. Clearly that person has different values than you, and you aren't willing to compromise your values. And that's attractive.

[somedude81]

However, a job right now, ANY job, would surely benefit a 32 year old who admits he's running out of money. Approaching his last semester, and without having pulled a full course load this last one, he should be interning in his field.

 

You don't think that lack of drive is a turnoff to any woman? How many free dates will the modern materialistic woman (or even 21 year old girl) put up with?

 

Oh I've been looking for internships in my field and I've applied for several of them, plus several jobs in the IT field that I can do.

 

Though looking for a job is a lot like trying to date online. Nobody ever responds to me.

[topaMAXX]

However, a job right now, ANY job, would surely benefit a 32 year old who admits he's running out of money. Approaching his last semester, and without having pulled a full course load this last one, he should be interning in his field.

 

You don't think that lack of drive is a turnoff to any woman? How many free dates will the modern materialistic woman (or even 21 year old girl) put up with?

 

Who would want to date a woman like this anyway? The tall guys could have them, imho.

 

The "modern materialistic woman", as you call them, deserves to be treated like women when they start acting like women. Until then, it's dutch all the way.

[xxoo]

Oh I've been looking for internships in my field and I've applied for several of them, plus several jobs in the IT field that I can do.

 

Though looking for a job is a lot like trying to date online. Nobody ever responds to me.

 

Do you think your lack of success in internships or finding a job, or in making friends, has anything to do with your height?

[MidwestUSA]

Who would want to date a woman like this anyway? The tall guys could have them, imho.

 

The "modern materialistic woman", as you call them, deserves to be treated like women when they start acting like women. Until then, it's dutch all the way.

 

 

Actually, I'd say the young girls had better be ready to pony up and pay the entire way. But whatever. We wanted equality, right?

[somedude81]

Do you think your lack of success in internships or finding a job, or in making friends, has anything to do with your height?

 

They have as much to do with my height as they do with attracting women.

[MidwestUSA]

They have as much to do with my height as they do with attracting women.

 

 

So you've applied for, or interviewed for, internships in person, and feel that your height is the reason you're not getting them? I've never filled out an app that asked my height.

[somedude81]

So you've applied for, or interviewed for, internships in person, and feel that your height is the reason you're not getting them? I've never filled out an app that asked my height.

 

That's exactly the opposite of what I meant.

 

My height has nothing to do with jobs and internships. Just as jobs and internships has nothing to do with my inability to get women.

[xxoo]

That's exactly the opposite of what I meant.

 

My height has nothing to do with jobs and internships. Just as jobs and internships has nothing to do with my inability to get women.

 

Doesn't it make more sense that there is a global reason that you struggle in ALL these areas? Whatever it is that prevents you from making friends, getting internships, and getting jobs--why wouldn't that issue also prevent you from getting women?

 

At the very least, there is a significant issue in addition to the height challenge.

[Imajerk17]

Again, none of the things that you mention are particularly attractive to women. A good education and good job are icing on the cake. They will, in no way, CREATE any kind of attraction (especially among western women that don't need that kind of stability).

 

Also, if SD reached all of his goals, women would not care. He would still have difficulty attracting them.

 

SD's true downfall is that he wastes going to dance class when he should be out approaching constantly and seeing what women respond to and what they don't. SD, unlike TFY, does not attract women naturally.

 

So if he wants to attract women, he will have to repetitively practice conscious behaviors that do attract them until they become subconscious (and, thus, natural).

 

I agree with some of this. Yes, there are plenty of guys with great resumes who can't attract a woman to save their lives, and there are plenty of broke dudes who always seem to get the girl anyway. This I agree with you. HOWEVER....

 

1. Maslov's Hierarchy of Needs. Not having a girlfriend for the time being isn't nearly as bad as not having money to eat and pay rent. The rest of somedude's life is coming up fast. Getting a job so he has a sufficient source of income so he can eat and pay rent in a year needs to be his obsession.

 

2. Dancing was the one place where he DID meet his girlfriend, come to think about it. What he is learning in dance also could be helping him a lot with the ladies if he leverages it right. How to be comfortable interacting with a woman. How to smoothly touch a woman and lead. Social dynamics from observing the guys in the class who are good with women. If SD could smoothly show a woman he is talking to in a bar a salsa step or two--i.e., LEAD her, that would spark attraction.

 

3. I thought SD already tried cold-approaching and PUA and it didn't work for him. It's something of a low-percentage game for about everyone anyway. I did it a lot--and still do--and I have my share of success stories (if you qualify "success" as sex and NOT a girlfriend). However I had to go through A LOT of rejections. SD said he isn't built to take that right now. Some guys have met their SOs via cold-approach though. YMMV.

 

Lest you think I'm some guy spouting theory, I've been there.

 

A. I was really down-in-the-dumps when my first girlfriend rejected me in college. Like SD I just got really lucky attracting her at the time--she was way out of my league but everything was working in my favor that night--and it didn't last. What snapped me out of it was that I heard she had accepted this great job offer finishing her senior year while I was too close to flunking out of college--2nd semester my junior year. Talk about humiliation. I spent the last year doing all I could to graduate on time and I did--even though I had to take 6 classes a semester.

 

B. I was also the guy who had a hot girlfriend when I was underemployed and broke. Thing is, that was the one time in my life when I just didn't give a fvvck. That relationship ended as it should have. What she and I had wasn't healthy. I wasn't healthy. I don't look back at that period as a great time in my life.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Imajerk17

[thefooloftheyear]

Again, none of the things that you mention are particularly attractive to women. A good education and good job are icing on the cake. They will, in no way, CREATE any kind of attraction (especially among western women that don't need that kind of stability).

 

Also, if SD reached all of his goals, women would not care. He would still have difficulty attracting them.

 

SD's true downfall is that he wastes going to dance class when he should be out approaching constantly and seeing what women respond to and what they don't. SD, unlike TFY, does not attract women naturally.

 

So if he wants to attract women, he will have to repetitively practice conscious behaviors that do attract them until they become subconscious (and, thus, natural).

 

 

Sorry, bro...but I disagree.....

 

No matter what the era is or how much money they make, women are natural born "nesters"....The minute they see a guy that has potential , they immediately get visions in their head of the white picket fence, the SUV, the flower garden, the Cocker Spaniel and the kids...Its not materialistic, its just how they are wired..

 

All of these things take a guy who has the shoulders and intestinal fortitude to carry it, and it matters not of he is the one paying the whole tab or not..

 

It takes a MAN....SD isnt a man yet...Im sorry to say....If he can pull that together, then these things will fall into place...Now you have some women who are "fixers"...They wont do this with an average or below average looking guy....These women think they can make these little boys into men..They often fail, because you cant make someone something they arent...They need to do it themselves...I have a male cousin like this...Good looking guy, but a loser..He can attract women, but he cant keep them for long...They cant fix him, because no one can...

 

 

TFY

[topaMAXX]

Sorry, bro...but I disagree.....

 

As I said before, I have a good job and a good education. I can honestly say that women do not care about these things.

 

The only thing that having a good education gave me was exposure to higher quality women (because more women are educated than men these days).

 

And having a good job doesn't allow me as much time to date (hence, causing me to be less successful since I started working).

 

Again, I've always gotten women and still do. I just have way less time that I've had before.

 

No matter what the era is or how much money they make, women are natural born "nesters"....The minute they see a guy that has potential , they immediately get visions in their head of the white picket fence, the SUV, the flower garden, the Cocker Spaniel and the kids...Its not materialistic, its just how they are wired..

 

I disagree with this. Women that I know make it clear that they don't need a man.

 

Also, I've known women that go out on dates just for the free food even if they have no interest in the guy.

 

This is off-topic, but women fluctuate between independence and traditionalism when it's convenient for them.

 

It takes a MAN....SD isnt a man yet...Im sorry to say....If he can pull that together, then these things will fall into place...Now you have some women who are "fixers"...They wont do this with an average or below average looking guy....These women think they can make these little boys into men..They often fail, because you cant make someone something they arent...They need to do it themselves...I have a male cousin like this...Good looking guy, but a loser..He can attract women, but he cant keep them for long...They cant fix him, because no one can...

 

As a man who has his stuff together, I disagree.

 

There is an age gap here, man....and young women have changed for the worse. You have children, correct? Do you have a son in his late teens or 20s?

 

My female supervisor (who is very attractive and kind of like a big sister to me) is shocked myself and other guys my age tell her the shenanigans that women pull these days.

 

She's only about 7 years older than me and always talks about how she's noticed that women act different than even she did when she was our age.

 

It's happening, man. It's happening.

[thefooloftheyear]

As I said before, I have a good job and a good education. I can honestly say that women do not care about these things.

 

The only thing that having a good education gave me was exposure to higher quality women (because more women are educated than men these days).

 

And having a good job doesn't allow me as much time to date (hence, causing me to be less successful since I started working).

 

Again, I've always gotten women and still do. I just have way less time that I've had before.

 

 

 

I disagree with this. Women that I know make it clear that they don't need a man.

 

Also, I've known women that go out on dates just for the free food even if they have no interest in the guy.

 

This is off-topic, but women fluctuate between independence and traditionalism when it's convenient for them.

 

 

 

As a man who has his stuff together, I disagree.

 

There is an age gap here, man....and young women have changed for the worse. You have children, correct? Do you have a son in his late teens or 20s?

 

My female supervisor (who is very attractive and kind of like a big sister to me) is shocked myself and other guys my age tell her the shenanigans that women pull these days.

 

She's only about 7 years older than me and always talks about how she's noticed that women act different than even she did when she was our age.

 

It's happening, man. It's happening.

 

I have no sons....But I know a whole lot about guys in their 20s....I have been employing and mentoring them for many years....You are correct, there HAS been a change....But you have it all wrong...

 

Women still want to be in a "traditional" role...Believe me, I live in a very affluent area..There are tons of women that gave up VERY high paying and powerful careers to be SAHM's...And I interact with a lot of women in the day to day running of my businesses...Including young women...Women have their shyt together, for the most part...They mature at a rate that is so far ahead of their male counterparts, its embarrassing as a to say it as a man..

 

Its the men(boys) that are the problem...Most of the younger guys I know act like 17 year olds...I was paying a mortgage and running my own million dollar company by the time I was 24...By SD;s age I was pretty much seasoned..And I grew up poor, so its not like I inherited the family business/fortune...It was no big deal for me, yet this concept is so foreign to the average 20 something year old guy that I should be enshrined in the Smithsonian...

 

But all kidding aside..Here is the problem for a guy like SD...Hes 32 years old and is where someone 22 might be expected to be....Good women his age wont want him...So he resorts to the kiddies...and the problem is either they are party girls looking for a Pauly D type or they are very mature and want a guy who may be his age but successful...So he is out of the game, for the most part...

 

Just a thought...

 

TFY