Consolidated Discussion - A man's/woman's height in the search for relationships

[R3d]

I meant that I suck relative to other people my age. And there are actually quite a few people with nice game that are my age.

 

And I meant the whole dating game starting from the first word you say to that girl - the initial attraction phase where you're trying to get that girl to go out with you. I am so bad, that I haven't even gotten past that. I haven't gone on a single date in my life.

 

This reminds me. I was going to reply to topaMAXX: I thought cold approach is not viable in high school and that you have to employ the use of social circle game, which sucks because cold approach is an easier, simpler, and faster way to get a date. But nevertheless, are you advising me to cold approach?

[Badsingularity]

I meant that I suck relative to other people my age. And there are actually quite a few people with nice game that are my age.

 

And I meant the whole dating game starting from the first word you say to that girl - the initial attraction phase where you're trying to get that girl to go out with you. I am so bad, that I haven't even gotten past that. I haven't gone on a single date in my life.

 

This reminds me. I was going to reply to topaMAXX: I thought cold approach is not viable in high school and that you have to employ the use of social circle game, which sucks because cold approach is an easier, simpler, and faster way to get a date. But nevertheless, are you advising me to cold approach?

 

You have plenty of time.

 

I didn't become good at attracting women until I was in my mid 20's.

[organizedchaos]

I meant that I suck relative to other people my age. And there are actually quite a few people with nice game that are my age.

 

And I meant the whole dating game starting from the first word you say to that girl - the initial attraction phase where you're trying to get that girl to go out with you. I am so bad, that I haven't even gotten past that. I haven't gone on a single date in my life.

 

This reminds me. I was going to reply to topaMAXX: I thought cold approach is not viable in high school and that you have to employ the use of social circle game, which sucks because cold approach is an easier, simpler, and faster way to get a date. But nevertheless, are you advising me to cold approach?

 

Yes, all 16 years of it. :rollseyes

 

Get off the PUA forums and sites too.

 

What's really sad about your situation is not that you haven't had a date by the time your 16, it's how badly you need therapy already at 16.

[R3d]

I have only been on one PUA forum, Simple Pickup, and that was for like a week. To clarify, that's the only forum I made an account and posted on. The rest I have just visited from time to time when I was searching something. I did at one point read a lot of what the guys over at the Bodybuilding forums say, and I wonder if you would consider that a PUA since the way they talk about this stuff does kind of sound similar to stud you see on PUA's. Just wondering, why are PUA's so bad?

 

I will try to get therapy, but my mom as of now doesn't think I need it, because I have only very vaguely explained to her my problems, and I don't want to tell her about all the elements to it for reasons mentioned above. My dad however, I think obliges.

 

Do you people really think that I really need therapy? It's just that I don't want my parents finding out about this stuff.

 

Do you know anything about the confidentiality policy for patients under 18? In other words, if you're under 18, will they tell your parents? Sorry, I don't know anything about how this will work.

Edited June 30, 2014 by R3d

[organizedchaos]

I have only been on one PUA forum, Simple Pickup, and that was for like a week. To clarify, that's the only forum I made an account and posted on. The rest I have just visited from time to time when I was searching something. I did at one point read a lot of what the guys over at the Bodybuilding forums say, and I wonder if you would consider that a PUA since the way they talk about this stuff does kind of sound similar to stud you see on PUA's. Just wondering, why are PUA's so bad?

 

I will try to get therapy, but my mom as of now doesn't think I need it, because I have only very vaguely explained to her my problems, and I don't want to tell her about all the elements to it for reasons mentioned above. My dad however, I think obliges.

 

Do you people really think that I really need therapy? It's just that I don't want my parents finding out about this stuff.

 

Do you know anything about the confidentiality policy for patients under 18? In other words, if you're under 18, will they tell your parents? Sorry, I don't know anything about how this will work.

 

Can't advise you on the policy stuff, but maybe you should be more open with your mom.

 

As for PUA stuff, doesn't matter how little you've spent on those sites, it has obviously influenced your negative image of yourself far too much.

 

You have far too many issues to be dealing with other than "gaming" girls at your age. I'm not here to debate the merits of the PUA community other than to say in all my 43 years, I've never needed to implement what they preach. Just being a confident, fun guy who's happy with or without a woman has been all I've needed to have various relationships, including a marriage. No games necessary.

[Always Pondering]

Do you know anything about the confidentiality policy for patients under 18? In other words, if you're under 18, will they tell your parents? Sorry, I don't know anything about how this will work.

 

As far as I'm aware, the therapist will not inform your parents of anything you discuss if that is what you wish unless it is life-threatening or could harm someone.

 

I've never went to therapy before or had any people I know do it, so I could be wrong.

 

Also, this is just my personal opinion but I don't believe you should take advice from the people on the Bodybuilding forum unless it's about bodybuilding/fitness/nutrition. I've seen some ridiculous behavior and comments on that forum.

[Glinda.Good]

Wow. I see we have managed to segue from the issue of shortness into the treacherous white woman territory.

 

Is the consensus that short men should avoid dating white women because "they" are so universally desired that "they" can afford to be picky?

 

While at the same time being the scourge of the planet?

 

It's all so confusing.

[organizedchaos]

Wow. I see we have managed to segue from the issue of shortness into the treacherous white woman territory.

 

Is the consensus that short men should avoid dating white women because "they" are so universally desired that "they" can afford to be picky?

 

While at the same time being the scourge of the planet?

 

It's all so confusing.

 

Yes, this whole tread is confusing.

 

Women have preferences. Shocker!

 

You accept and find ones that don't. Or you complain on an Internet forum about something you cannot change.

 

I know women will reject me bc I have a kid. Am I starting threads about how unfair it is that my dating pool is reduced? No. I'm putting myself out there because I have enough intelligence to understand people have preferences. And if I can't change it, I keep looking.

[Imajerk17]

Wow. I see we have managed to segue from the issue of shortness into the treacherous white woman territory.

 

Is the consensus that short men should avoid dating white women because "they" are so universally desired that "they" can afford to be picky?

 

While at the same time being the scourge of the planet?

 

It's all so confusing.

 

Yep. You women would do better for yourselves if you all could become corporations.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Imajerk17

[KaliLove]

My self-hatred began in mid February. Reading this is what triggered it:

 

 

Source: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130810193023AAiEbnf

 

I just wanted to share this with you because reading this is what really got to me in mid-February. I read this and I thought, "****, I am ****ed." And as I described in my other thread where I explain my history, why I am here today:

 

 

 

Source: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/off-topic/personal-rants-confessions/482251-how-i-found-loveshack-why-i-am-here-today

 

Now watching Cupid Shmupid on YouTube picking up all these girls successfully at 5'2.125 and the same with Jesse on Simple Pickup (who is Indian and 5'7) did help to undo some of the insecurity over my height, but not really because he has tons of game and so the consensus is basically that you need really tight game if you're short. And game is very difficult to learn. As someone said once, "Being a short guy is like dating on hard mode." The problem I have with this statement is as if dating isn't already hard enough. Dating is a weak point for me. If anything, I needed somewhat of an advantage the negate the fact that I suck at the dating game. So it was and still is very demoralizing to find out that actually, I am severely disadvantaged times two. Realizing the fact that unless I am at least close to a dating game professional, I will not stand a chance, was heart-breaking. Then again, at least proficiency in game is something I can control but the problem is my insecurity and self-hatred is a significant detriment to my game.

 

And then there's my race...

 

somedude81 man, do you not approve of interracial dating? I am just trying to understand why you're so opposed to the fact that I am primarily physically attracted to white girls. What fuels my insecurity over race is whenever I receive chastisement (or see other Indian dudes receiving chastisement) online for having a taste in white women, in addition to finding out that white women in general find Indian men unattractive. It makes me think, "Man if I wasn't Indian, I wouldn't have to deal with this ****." I don't understand why people chastise us over it. You can't control who you're physically attracted to, which is why I do not chastise women for finding short or Indian men unattractive, because it's not their fault. Neither is it mine to be primarily attracted to white women.

 

KaliLove, do you really think I need therapy at this point? I have been talking to my parents and I have asked my dad to look into it. However, I told my mom what the issue was, very vaguely. I told her that I am suffering from low self-esteem, self-hatred, and insecurity, but I didn't tell her any of the elements to it (height and race primarily). Based on what I told her, she doesn't think I need it. I am just afraid to tell her specifically because I am anticipating that she's going to belittle how I am feeling and then there's also that parental bias where you think your kids are so great and all. And I really don't want to tell her about my racial insecurity, because she's probably going to be pissed about how I want to date white girls and a lot of fighting may ensue and I may even run the risk of losing access to the internet. I don't think my parents are particularly against interracial dating, but I don't think a pretty scene will ensue after I tell her about this.

 

If this last attempt at getting over my self-hatred is unsuccessful (meaning if it wears off in a while like it always has), I will officially request therapy. Right now it's under light discussion at home, but I'll tell them that I will try one last time to resolve this myself (with your people's assistance).

 

What exactly are you doing right now to try to get over it? Because frankly, all I see you doing is continuing to post on a forum that only makes you feel worse about yourself.

 

Guess what? Not every girl on the planet is going to like you. Not every guy on the planet is going to like me..do you see me crying over it? No..I'll keep looking until I find a guy I want who wants me back.

 

If you're holding out for universal popularity, you're going to be waiting a VERY long time.

 

You absolutely, 1000% do need therapy. Immediately. You don't have to tell your parents why you want it, and your therapist legally cannot tell them anything you say unless they believe you are a danger to yourself or others, which I don't think you are.

Edited July 1, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MidwestUSA]

Wow. I see we have managed to segue from the issue of shortness into the treacherous white woman territory.

 

Is the consensus that short men should avoid dating white women because "they" are so universally desired that "they" can afford to be picky?

 

While at the same time being the scourge of the planet?

 

It's all so confusing.

 

Wait. I'm more confused than ever. Who can afford to be picky? White women? I'm white, and a woman, now what? Did I settle?

 

 

Who's the scourge? Me?

[KaliLove]

Wait. I'm more confused than ever. Who can afford to be picky? White women? I'm white, and a woman, now what? Did I settle?

 

 

Who's the scourge? Me?

 

Yeah..we're bad people because we have preferences just like everyone else. We're just supposed to date whomever wants to date us instead of having *gasp* opinions about it!

[Glinda.Good]

I don't necessarily mean that they are too hard to impress for the average guy. What I'm saying is that I (me personally) need to try too hard to impress them. I have to conform to the values of this society when I disagree with most of them and see a lot of hypocrisy.

 

So, by "them" are you referring to white people, white women, Americans, American women, American white women, or what?

 

Women still like me here (I have a naturally attractive personality IRL),

:lmao:

 

This is my primary reason for going to other cultures. I agree more with the values of other cultures so I prefer women there.

 

"There"? When it comes to women, "other cultures" are all one and the same to you? Like, China or Uganda are basically the same when it comes to dating as a short American man?

 

Can there be white people, or only people of color?

 

And if you don't think that people (both men and women) are not highly influenced by the society around them, then you need to actually LIVE in these places like I have. Even with globalization, many places are vastly different outside the US and the people act different. Sure, people are people, but the differences are in the details. And the details, oftentimes, are what counts the most.

 

In which of "these places" have you actually lived?

[R3d]

What exactly are you doing right now to try to get over it? Because frankly, all I see you doing is continuing to post on a forum that only makes you feel worse about yourself.

<Discussion of moderation and/or other forums redacted>

 

People would pacify me by telling me that I have a chance, and for a few days I would be fine. However, as the last sentence implies, it was only temporary appeasement and I would start fall back into my state of self-hatred and think, "They are just saying that to pacify me." I would fall back into this state with time as being present in high school seems to be one source of my insecurity (recall the plebeian and patrician analogy) and/or if I came across stuff online again that said that short or Indian guys don't stand a chance.

 

Then I would rinse and repeat. At this point, however, you people are failing to appease me, because I realize that every time you do so, it's only temporary, which is why yes, I agree that I need therapy. The thing is my self-image can't be based off of what other people say, which is why I noticed that the appeasement would expire after a while - because my confidence is not coming from within me, but from external validation.

 

Guess what? Not every girl on the planet is going to like you. Not every guy on the planet is going to like me..do you see me crying over it? No..I'll keep looking until I find a guy I want who wants me back.

topaMAXX said in this thread that I should still be able to get a reasonably attractive girlfriend in spite of being short and Indian, and if that is true, then that's great - that's all I am looking for and would more than satisfy me. The problem is while topaMAXX may believe so, R3d doesn't (sorry I couldn't resist). It comes back to what I said above. I haven't developed that confidence from within me and I don't know how to.

 

If you're holding out for universal popularity, you're going to be waiting a VERY long time.

 

I am not.

 

You absolutely, 1000% do need therapy. Immediately. You don't have to tell your parents why you want it, and your therapist legally cannot tell them anything you say unless they believe you are a danger to yourself or others, which I don't think you are.

That's great. I have told my dad to look into it.

Edited July 2, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[EngnimaticResponse]

 

 

Shortness doesn't hold back men except in professional basketball.

 

 

I have two words for you. Muggsy Bogues. Look him up.

 

Being short isn't exactly anything to be proud about.

 

It's nothing to sulk about either. You're taller then I am buddy.

 

I did actually

 

Though I'm worried that you may be right about you being a rainbow unicorn who would actually date short men. I'm sure you were being sarcastic, but women like you are rare.

 

 

Really? Really??! I had to think about this for a second, and I can't say the numbers are staggering, but every single woman I have dated has been taller then me. By at least an inch, sometimes several. I have never dated a woman my height or shorter. More recently I have even hit on women who are over 6', or at least close to it. Did I mention I'm only 5' 3"?

 

Wait. I'm more confused than ever. Who can afford to be picky? White women? I'm white, and a woman, now what? Did I settle?

 

 

Who's the scourge? Me?

 

Couldn't say. Did you?

 

Arrg! White women. The scourge of the 5,3's! (Say it out loud, like a pirate.)

Edited July 2, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

[Trane]

Both are great if you don't go overboard, because then you will look as if you are compensating.

 

 

100% true.

 

 

True, in fact an ex had friends who did this in public, made fun of short and fat guys who were interested.

I was fat and sat at their table.

 

 

Especially true with #4 if she and her friends are still under 23 or so.

After HS, there is a time of 3-4 yrs when girls stick together as if in HS, while transitioning to adulthood and the approval of their friends is almost mandatory for ... anything.

Think teenage version of Sex and the City.

 

Oh so true. In my experiences, women 5 or more years into menopause don't necessarily go running to their girlfriends for approval. There comes a time in her life when the sexual needs and urges speak the loudest. The reassurance from the sewing circle is not needed when she reaches this age.

 

Some amazing women actually learn very quickly, some right after high school that they have a mind for themselves, her vagina is solely hers, and she can choose a man all on their own LOL. Until she discovers that for herself, the men she dates will always be graded on how he makes the others feel in her circle of friends. Always the same questions. Does he makes all of us feel feminine and proud? Can he protect all of us in the group? Is he tall enough for us to wear our heels? Are his friends tall and good-looking too?

[R3d]

This is exactly what I worried about and still do to an extent. Talking to girls is already hard enough and then there's all this ****. The last one is what bugs me and I am afraid of the most. Her friends causing said girl to lose any little interest she may develop in me.

[R3d]

Does he makes all of us feel feminine and proud? Can he protect all of us in the group? Is he tall enough for us to wear our heels? Are his friends tall and good-looking too?

 

*sigh*

 

I can understand rejecting a short guy because you're not attracted to him. What I can't understand is the whole friends business. Personally, I don't give a **** about what my friends or even family think of who I crush on (and would date if I could). Then again, I am a guy. It seems like girls have a tendency to care about what their friends think more than guys.

[sugarlove]

*sigh*

 

I can understand rejecting a short guy because you're not attracted to him. What I can't understand is the whole friends business. Personally, I don't give a **** about what my friends or even family think of who I crush on (and would date if I could). Then again, I am a guy. It seems like girls have a tendency to care about what their friends think more than guys.

 

I beg to differ. I don't care what my girlfriends think as long as they don't touch my man.

[M30USA]

I think short men might actually be lucky in this life because at least they know they won't wind up with a shallow woman.

Edited July 12, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Response to deleted post redacted

[R3d]

Having physical preferences isn't being shallow though. Well it may be, but really we are all shallow as long as we have physical preferences. Being shallow doesnt mean you are a person not worth dating though. By that logic, almost no one would be worth dating. Physical attraction is necessary. It isn't women's fault if they aren't physically attracted to short men. It is unethical to tell women (and men for that matter) to date men they are not physically attracted to, in my opinion.

 

That is why the reasoning, "If she rejects you for being short, then that is not a person you would want to be with anyway," doesn't do anything for me.

[somedude81]

I think short men might actually be lucky in this life because at least they know they won't wind up with a shallow woman.

 

That's actually a really good point.

 

A woman who is dating a short guys shows that she doesn't really care about the appearance of guy and instead focuses on who he really is and how he makes her feel.

[M30USA]

That's actually a really good point.

 

A woman who is dating a short guys shows that she doesn't really care about the appearance of guy and instead focuses on who he really is and how he makes her feel.

 

One of the many examples in life of how those who are lacking or less fortunate are actually blessed. Hmm...I think some man 2000 years ago said the same thing.

[regine_phalange]

I never minded shorter guys.. Until I registered on LS. Don't pluck your eyes out with your own hands.

[EvelyneConnor]

A lot of good points here. But I think that in the end, once you work through these issues, you'll come out much stronger and more attractive than others who were "gifted" with height and good looks. Just like a girl who doesn't have a magazine model face or curvy, "perfect" body often develops a great personality, simply because she has to work that much harder. Good luck!