karnak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 To answer your question: I think the reaction you got doesn't show that. I'm sorry for that, but it really doesn't. Like I did say though, if she's shown you 500 emails (right away) that are all innocent and offered to bring you on business trips and do anything you want and you won't let it go and she had 1 email that appears to have inappropriate content and that's all you've got then I wouldn't blame her for shutting down, but this doesn't sound like it. Yep. My oppinion too. Calling your wife's breasts the "twins" doesn't seem very appropriate to me. Makes it look like he's very intimate with the "twins" in question. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 LFH I haveto be honest, while I have been concerned that I’m overreacting since thisstarted last year, the explanation (and still is) that the e-mail was just a jokebetween two friends has been insulting to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Drifter I hear you, and I understand. I do plan to contact a lawyer next week and seek advice. I guess the reason I’m still here discussing this situation is because there still are vestiges of feelings for this woman and what was my marriage. It is cathartic in its own way… Edited August 31, 2012 by Reg Link to post Share on other sites
drifter777 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Drifter I hear you, and I understand. I do plan to contact a lawyer next week andseek advice. I guess the reason I’m stillhere discussing this situation is because there still are vestiges of feelingsfor this woman and what was my marriage. It is cathartic in its own way… I totally hear why you are still here, and I hope you stay. There are a lot of guys on here that have been exactly where you are and will continue to offer advice and support as long as you want it. And I get that you are on an emotional roller-coaster. When your world is turned upside down by infidelity, you question everything - especially your own judgement. That's why many of us are trying to steer you in what we believe is the right direction. It's hard for you to see clearly right now, I remember what it's like. You must make your own decisions, but remember that we are really trying to help YOU recover from this, and many of don't believe that reconciliation is the only way to get there. If your wife was to do an about-face today and come clean with the truth, beg for forgiveness and promise to do whatever she had to do to rebuild your trust, we would change the kind of advice we are giving you. The vast majority of us think reconciliation is well worth a try IF the cheater shows genuine remorse and is enthusiastic about working to earn your trust and love back. This is not happening in your case so we don't see reconciliation as a real option. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 LFH I haveto be honest, while I have been concerned that I’m overreacting since thisstarted last year, the explanation (and still is) that the e-mail was just a jokebetween two friends has been insulting to me. Ya know - I am and have always been very dear friends with several men. We joke and laugh and discuss a variety of things. But NEVER, ever did we talk about my boobs or "twins" even him having a "pet name" for her PERSONAL body parts is offensive! But then again - I've never shown MY male FRIENDS my bare boobs. That's ONLY a comment someone makes after they've touched and played with them as if they're their own. He's completely out of line - but your wife ALLOWED him to think he has the right to be intimate with HER body. I can't understand why you won't tell his wife NOW that he's cheating with your wife and that you plan to leave her since she's choosing to be honoring him instead of you. Her $hitstorm is coming and you're not even warning her. That's terrible that YOU aren't giving her YOUR TRUTH! Link to post Share on other sites
USMCHokie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Unfortunately, I've been accused some times of doing things that I really didn't do. And to be honest I didn't do a lot of effort to prove the other person was wrong. I was the one who was right, not the accusers. As long as my conscience was at peace I only had to present my evidence. And the issue with this is that many cheaters genuinely believe they are right. They will rationalize it in any way they can to feel better about themselves and what they have done. So you may "think" you're being completely innocent, but what is most telling is the lack of empathy for the other person and what he is feeling. Link to post Share on other sites
karnak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 And the issue with this is that many cheaters genuinely believe they are right. They will rationalize it in any way they can to feel better about themselves and what they have done. So you may "think" you're being completely innocent, but what is most telling is the lack of empathy for the other person and what he is feeling. To be honest I don't think they belive they are right. They never do (unless they're lunatics). But, as you said, they have to mantain the charade in order to keep their social status intact and to live with themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Whether she thinks she's right or not is a moot point - since she didn't/hasn't bothered to fight to rebuild trust or the M = it's over. Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Just wondering, what is the opinion of what would have been a normal response for some one who was caught in an admittedly flirtatious e-mail talking about their assets or twins, but nothing had gone on beyond that. In addition, there were other circumstantial evidence that the relationship between these two people was bordering or just beyond bordering what is appropriate. What would a normal person that cares, and still loves their spouse do when confronted with this information? I have to ask because maybe it has been so long since I’ve been in a relationship that’s been missing these elements that Ididn’t see the flaws for what they were fully were right away. I tried to tell my wife that my response to her if the shoe had been on the other foot would have been to show her remorse for hurting her and to make the correct changes with the relationship of the person that my wife perceived as being inappropriate. What would a person who didn’t intend to be over the line do to make it right for the hurting spouse when it was brought to their attention? Is there really a universal proper response to this scenario? This exact question (which everyone will ask for the rest of your divorced life) is exactly why I recommended that you go into investigative mode. Even you yourself are not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that she is having an affair. You are understandably exhausted by the whole ordeal. But by throwing in the towel without proof, you are giving her a pass for her affair. She will convince everyone that you went psycho over one flirty email. Especially if you leave, she gets to have her affair, have the OM, have the house, have NO consequences and everyone blames you. You play right into her hand and she wins. You need to stone cold bust her and expose the entire affair to everyone. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Betrayed I would love to have the absolute peace of mind that she did/is (or isn’t/didn’t) cheating on me. However, the go in to lay low mode isn’t always as simple as you make it sound. While there are many, many similar events and signals in all of our stories, everything about each of our situations isn’t all the same. Yes, you are correct I will always have certain unknowns in this situation that will always bug me. Trust me when I say I would use a PI if Icould. I will be talking to an attorney soon, and following their advice on my situation (before I do any extracurricular stuff that I may regret or backfire). This is why I have been asking questions about my situation to get opinions concerning my gut instincts and perceptions on the situation. By in large most people here, men and women, seem to think that if she would have that e-mail conversation with her boss is reason enough to believe that something is wrong in our relationship and inappropriate in her actions. I would like to think I would never have that kind of secret conversation with a female employee of mine, and if I was careless enough to do so and my wife called me out on it I would like to think I would have reacted differently than she did. After trying to get reconciliation in the form of her showing some remorse and empathy toward me and my hurt, with no avail, I’m ready to throw in the towel. Edited September 1, 2012 by Reg Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Why did your wife plan a weekend away without you? Is tht normal? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 No, I wouldn’t call it normal based on our past tendencies. She is with our older child on what they are calling a mother-son road trip. They planned it without me. I have been receiving text messages all evening about his excitement of events happening where they are this weekend. I’m sure I would not characterize it as something that I couldn’t ever see happening though… Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 No, I wouldn’t call it normal based on our past tendencies. She is with our older child on what they are calling a mother-son road trip. They planned it without me. I have been receiving text messages all evening about his excitement of events happening where they are this weekend. I’m sure I would not characterize it as something that I couldn’t ever see happening though… So I think it's odd that she planned a holiday weekend specifically without you. When I was married - we always wanted to do things together. Wasn't that also a red flag for you? Or has she been eliminating you purposely for a long time? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 Yes, itis a red flag for me, but I chalk it up as yet another symptom of what our relationship has been devolving to. I agree it is a holiday weekend, you would think as spouses we would want to be together. She did ask me recently did I mine them going this weekend, and I replied no. Link to post Share on other sites
Hatelife Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I think your reacting in the right way. Have you ever spoken with her boss? Have you ever asked her straight out are you having and affair? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 hl I have asked her if she is having an affair, and she always says no, “they are just friends”. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I would highly suggest you spend this time while she's away sifting through any and ALL paperwork you can find! Make copies of everything recent. Store them in a location away from home. This includes all bank, investment and retirement balances! Check the bank accounts online to see if she moved money yesterday! Use your free time this weekend wisely! YOU need info while she's gone! Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 When a WS admits to something, Anything, rest assured it's ONLY the tip of the iceberg! So, she admits to loving him (as a friend), she goes away on business trips with him, she talks to him intimately about things EVERY day, she has been refusing you sex, and you've only spotted one email convo where it seemed inappropriate -- please, why are you ignoring the big picture?! You DON'T NEED TO CATCH THEM TOGETHER IN BED!! Everything adds up to she is cheating on you! Have a look at this thread which deals with the need to have 'indisputable proof' of your spouse cheating... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/201679-s-rew-need-indisputable-proof-when-you-know-they-cheating Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Athena Thanks for the link to the other thread. That was very interesting, and I agree with many of the sentiments expressed. Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Athena Thanks for the link to the other thread. That was very interesting, and I agree with many of the sentiments expressed. Also, I find it helpful to talk to your spouse AS IF they are cheating, and it is undeniable, and matter-of-fact... otherwise you tend to get hung up on the <IF> part, when all circumstantial evidence makes it obvious that they are, but just because they know you don't hold the smoking gun, they smugly blow smoke up your a$$ just so they don't get the Consequences for their actions. Talk to your wife AS IF you both know she IS cheating and has been, for the past year. Each time she tries to sidetrack you, by asking for your proof, just say, "yes, but lets just take it as a given that you are in an affair, because that is the ONLY thing that makes sense in This Picture." They only try deny the facts to avoid accountability. Inevitably, it is never in your best interests to play along in their denial game. Move on as if it were a given fact... lets see how long it takes for her to change her tactics. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 Athena I’m already in that phase. It’s actually been a little liberating this past week to realize this is the point that I’m moving in to the next step of my life and I’m comfortable with that. She tried to communicate with me a few times this weekend, but I haven’t been engaging in conversation. Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Athena I’m already in that phase. It’s actually been a little liberating this past week to realize this is the point that I’m moving in to the next step of my life and I’m comfortable with that. She tried to communicate with me a few times this weekend, but I haven’t been engaging in conversation. Good for you Reg! She is fishing to fond out how much you know....what her exposure may be...and I can guarantee the the texts and phone calls are flying back and forth between the two of them. Do NOT divulge what you know or don't know. Athena does give excellent advice. ACT as if you know more than you do. Do not play the denial and blameshifting game. You can now be as mysterious and obtuse as she has been. Ignore the fishing expeditions...ask her if there is anything else she would like to tell you before you make some decisions. Do not divulge what you intend to do about the info she thinks you may have. At dday, the APs start to go into a full blown panic about what info you may have AND what you intend to do with it. Tell them NOTHING...either about what you know AND what you intend to do about it. Let them panic. Your wife may not care, but her boss may care a lot if his reputation is about to ruined....and it could be, having an affair with an employee. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
g450 Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I can respect all of that and I'll try to stop pressing you further. I still encourage you (if you are able) to place a VAR under her steering column and a GPS in there, too. Considering the freedom they seem to have in the work environment, I would bet on mid-day hotels. I would just think you would want to know that your marriage failed due to her infidelity, not due to some paranoia on your part. Otherwise, I don't know how you explain all of this to friends, family and the kids without bearing the responsibility for being a quitter on the marriage. Either way, it sounds like it is time to consult an attorney on your options. Sorry, I was going to stop pressuring you, right? Truly, I just hope you can stay strong for yourself thru this. You didn't ask for it. Start looking forward to the next phase of life after this mess. It is out there. Agree completely with BH. He is spot on. And I basically told you the same thing in your other thread. Rest assured though that there will be better times for you ahead. Hard to see right now but it will be OK. Just stick to your ethics and keep a cool head. In the end you may find yourself better off as a single man and her sins will eventually catch up to her. They always do. With my own XW her love never left his wife and five kids for her. It was just her fantasy. Now she is living completely alone and pushing 60. Even our Son doesnt really like being around her much. As for me, I got remarried. Never in a million years thought that would happen three years down the road but it did. As Abe said, she is in a Romance Novel like my XW was as well. Reality will catch up to her and knock her upside the head. I actually feel sory for my XW in a way. I remember back when she found out I was getting remaried she told me "your moving too fast". This after being told for two years straight that I needed to move on like she did. Un-freaking-real. These people live in disneyland I think. As far as the sex thing...same here. She almost completely cut me off. As others have said. They are cheating on their lover if they have sex with their husband. Sad but true. So many similarities here with you and others that have posted it's like looking in a mirror. A few more thoughts. The ring: I would have kept it on. Too late now. I kept mine on until the divorce was final. She had hers off way before she told me she wanted out. It was my way of being true to my vows until the bitter end. It was a statement to her, to my Son and Family and to myself. At this point in your thread I have only one question for you. Have you filed yet. And if not...why? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Reg Posted September 2, 2012 Author Share Posted September 2, 2012 A lawyer is on my agenda this week. No fault state, with 12 month minimum separation rules. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 hl I have asked her if she is having an affair, and she always says no, “they are just friends”. She's denying and will lie until the evidence smacks her in the face. Even then she'll down play it and make you feel crazy and tell you you're over reacting and being paranoid. That's called gaslighting. Many WS's do this to their BS. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts