If not prostitutes, then what?

[Robert Z]

Divorced two years ago and miserable for the previous twenty, sexless for ten and no interest in putting myself through all of that grief again, I have found happiness in the arms of prostitutes. While I understand that many people find this objectionable, I am still at a loss as to what other options exist or what people think I am supposed to do.

 

Am I to understand that the only acceptable life for a man not interested in a relationship, is to live as a priest?

 

Often, people, usually women, will say something like, I need to heal. Heal for what, something I no longer want? One member here said that I am putting my energy into the wrong place. Why? Where should I be putting it, back into a nightmare like the one I just escaped?

 

Time and time again the message is that it isn't acceptable to not want another serious relationship. When I say I nearly allowed my marriage to destroy me, it doesn't cause a hiccup. Obviously that is all over now so I should just pretend it didn't happen? Right? It doesn't matter that I regret ever meeting my wife. It doesn't matter that I wasted half of my life. It doesn't matter that it nearly drove me to suicide. I should just heal and jump right back in? Why? Why would I want to do that to myself?

 

At best I have a 50/50 chance of marrying and being happy. Why would I want to flip a coin with my life? I'm happier now that I have been since I can remember. I know I can be reasonably happy like I am. Why would I want to put that at risk? What is the logic that says I should want to do this? I just don't see it. Is there something I'm missing?

 

I am starting to think that religion has brainwashed people into thinking marriage, or at least a life partnership, are the only viable options in life.

[KraftDinner]

I honestly don't mean this rudely, but why do you care what others think?

 

Do what you gotta do. Who cares. Do you need to convince others before you really feel comfy with your choices?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Don't focus so much on what one member said. Others, including me, think it's fine that you have chosen an intimacy - free life (except for the paid for enactments). It's your life - your freedom to choose. You aren't hurting anyone.

[Pompom]

Dude, I hear you. And you don't need to justify your decisions to small-minded strangers. Do whatever makes you happy and hurts no one.

 

But how can anyone put their partner through a decade of no sex? Sorry, just curious. What moral person ties someone to themselves through marriage, and then leaves them dry?

[Robert Z]

But how can anyone put their partner through a decade of no sex? Sorry, just curious. What moral person ties someone to themselves through marriage, and then leaves them dry?

 

If you ever figure it out, let me know. Suffice it to say that trust may never come again.

 

It isn't so much that I'm worried about what people think of me, but rather what they think I'm supposed to do. If people feel so strongly about what I'm doing, then I would like to know what other options they think I have.

 

And it isn't just here. I constantly get it from family and friends. When am I going to get my life together and meet some nice woman? Well, I think silently to myself, I did. I met three of them and they make me very happy.

 

I told my sister, with whom I'm close, about my new life, and she is not a happy camper! When I asked what I'm supposed to do, "should I live as a priest?", she just goes silent.

[Robert Z]

Don't focus so much on what one member said. Others, including me, think it's fine that you have chosen an intimacy - free life (except for the paid for enactments). It's your life - your freedom to choose. You aren't hurting anyone.

 

I have plenty of intimacy in my life. You may not think of it as intimacy, but it is. And I am quite sure that I am the one in a position to make that judgment, not you.

 

The question is, what are my options to the "paid enactments"? That was the point. I know I am free to live alone and die miserable. It's about the enactments. You don't approve, right? So, tell me what other options I have besides staggering loneliness and sexual desperation?

[Els]

The actual percentage of people who have strongly objected to you visiting prostitutes, I think, are something like 1% here. I can only think of a few names, and all of them are extremely religious and are against other commonly-accepted stuff such as homosexual marriages and abortion rights as well.

 

I'm pretty certain that both Mme C and myself have never said that we don't approve of you visiting prostitutes, for one thing.

 

The problem most of us have with you is that you tend to go into almost poetic praise of prostitutes being lovely, wonderful, and gracious women who love having sex with older men like yourself and are genuinely attracted to you. Our point is that they are businesswomen like anyone else. Please go ahead with visiting them, but stop deluding yourself that they are sleeping with you because they are attracted to you. They are sleeping with you because you are a good business deal.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I have plenty of intimacy in my life. You may not think of it as intimacy, but it is. And I am quite sure that I am the one in a position to make that judgment, not you.

 

The question is, what are my options to the "paid enactments"? That was the point. I know I am free to live alone and die miserable. It's about the enactments. You don't approve, right? So, tell me what other options I have besides staggering loneliness and sexual desperation?

 

I ABSOLUTELY approve. My issue with you, as you present yourself here on LS, is mostly summed up by Elswyth's post above. Why the desperate seeming need to present all of your encounters with pros as something so romantic, and your desperation to have all of us buy into that? Why the F do you CARE?

 

You have even presented posts to put the rest of us women "on notice." Do you realize that we DON'T CARE that you and guys like you can buy sex from beautiful women? And you should be fine with us not caring! Have at it!

 

The rest of what's off-putting about your persona here has been stated directly by you in your several posts about how men are "entitled" to have sex with women, and women are "obliged" to have sex with their husbands, and your completely false assertions about female sexuality in general and specifically about that of middle aged women.

 

Do you understand that a man who feels and thinks that way is not a man that women want to have a relationship with?

 

You get "plenty of intimacy" through paying for sex, and that's fine for you. It's plenty for YOU. I promise you, though, that it is not on the same level as intimacy that is SHARED between two people who are giving and receiving it outside of a commercial deal. The very prostitutes that you are paying for YOUR "intimacy" are probably experiencing this other kind with men in their lives outside of their jobs. I don't believe you can actually argue with this, though you may remain firm in your stance that unpaid for "intimacy" is not of interest to you.

 

You aren't interested in that, though, so the prostitution is working for you. I've said before that you seem to be the perfect "regular" type of john.

 

Except …

 

 

I think that part of you IS interested in a non - commercial type of relationship, and that is why you persist in glorifying your fun transactions. But you have not even begun to reach a place where you would be ready and willing to make the changes that would be required in YOUR approach, expectations, and what you are offering of yourself in order to have a RELATIONSHIP.

 

This would include an honest look at what YOU contributed to bring your marriage to such a desolate place. A look I don't think you are willing to take.

 

So, unless the time ever comes when the benefits of having that in your life would warrant the work YOU would need to do to actually have it in your life, it's nice and good for you that you are feeling happy and comfortable about buying your "intimacy" and having it served to you on your own terms.

 

I have not been joking, though, when I have posted about watching out for yourself financially. I have seen men go into an addictive pattern with prostitutes. You might be well off, but your finances are not bottomless.

 

Carry on!

[Radu]

Very few had problems with the morality of what you did.

 

I personally think that :

- you make these threads to convince yourself you are OK [a form of rationalization]

- you can get this kind of stuff for free, and there is no need to pay

 

You are 50, it's not the end of the world and i know of a younger guy in PUA who does exactly what i'm saying, he keeps 5 or more girls on rotation, in a Multiple Long Term Relationship kind of thing, without actually comitting.

Look at this board, how many women have low self-esteem that post here [and a good chunk of the good looking ones have low SE].

So many women on these boards rationalize being the OW or the FWB ...

 

Why pay when you can get it for free ?

Edited September 4, 2012 by Radu

[KathyM]

Alternative to prostitutes: Find yourself a real relationship with someone who actually wants to have an intimate relationship with you. Just because one relationship with your wife didn't work out doesn't mean all future relationships will be bad. You are filling yourself up with junk food, when what your body needs is real food--a companionship with someone who will actually want to be with you and feel attraction for you, rather than a fake person who is pretending in order to get your money. I have my doubts about your agenda on here, since almost all of your posts involve promoting prostitution, but if there is any reality to your situation, I would suggest you consider the alternative--a real relationship--it's a lot more fulfilling than someone you have to pay to spend time with you and who only pretends to want you.

[Feelin Frisky]

You sound like you're in crisis mode--making a lot of flawed projections and killing yourself with question marks. Get some help--maybe medicine--good medicine that helps you see inside your emotional make-up, not the old kind of medicine that makes you feel good for the moment but never helps you sort yourself out. Ultimately, like me, you'll have to accept that life is really tough for a lot of people and maybe even that the "happiness" we're all led to believe in is the exception rather than the rule. One thing you can not do is carry on in crisis mode all the time waning definite answers to everything because it will make you toxic to other people as well as yourself. There are all these "eastern" philosophies and far out religions for nothing--men and women have been suffering similar worries literally forever. If you're a sexual human being, you want not only to be loved now but want to breathe the relief that comes with believing you have a partner who is going to want to share life with you. Reality can throw you a whole world of contradictions. I went nuts myself--weeping in the street over a mail box and having people ask me if there anything they can do. I knew I had lost myself by trying to make something work that couldn't and fell into drug addiction that had me in free fall and up for days on end walking around like the whole "me" that I'd known for 35 years was something I had lost the link to. Sometimes you can do everything right and still lose big. Survivors will tell you "one day at a time" and that is about as simple as anyone can make it. Lower you expectations, start keeping those incessant question marks at bay. No one have your answer. You just have to sort yourself out and lead a life where good things can happen. I don't judge about the prostitutes. That's your business.

[xxoo]

I would have no problem with a man I know visiting prostitutes, as long as he is harming none (not cheating on a partner, not spreading disease, not abusing prostitutes). I feel prostitution should be legal.

 

But I don't want to hear about it. TMI! Why are you telling your sister about your prostitutes?! Family members in general don't want to know about your sex life.

[CarrieT]

Robert - I think you are still in the healing phase of your life after such a long, troubling marriage. And frequenting prostitutes is okay with part of the process.

 

You continually state you aren't interested in another relationship and that may very well be the case - for now.

 

The healing process varies in every person and after my 2 1/2 year abusive, alcoholic relationship ended with 18-months of no sex, I did as you are now with trawling for meaningless sex. Regrettably, hiring male prostitutes is far more difficult and I had to have a lot of mediocre NSA sex for physical fulfillment.

 

But, when my heart had healed enough, and I was ready to move on and pursue a relationship, then it was time for me to put my FWBs aside. At some point in the future, you might get to that point. I have a feeling you will, but in the mean time, don't beat yourself up at what you are doing and how you are going about it.

 

When you are ready to have another person in your life as a partner, you will know it and you won't want or need the prostitutes any more.

[BetheButterfly]

Divorced two years ago and miserable for the previous twenty, sexless for ten and no interest in putting myself through all of that grief again, I have found happiness in the arms of prostitutes. While I understand that many people find this objectionable, I am still at a loss as to what other options exist or what people think I am supposed to do.

 

Am I to understand that the only acceptable life for a man not interested in a relationship, is to live as a priest?

 

Often, people, usually women, will say something like, I need to heal. Heal for what, something I no longer want? One member here said that I am putting my energy into the wrong place. Why? Where should I be putting it, back into a nightmare like the one I just escaped?

 

Time and time again the message is that it isn't acceptable to not want another serious relationship. When I say I nearly allowed my marriage to destroy me, it doesn't cause a hiccup. Obviously that is all over now so I should just pretend it didn't happen? Right? It doesn't matter that I regret ever meeting my wife. It doesn't matter that I wasted half of my life. It doesn't matter that it nearly drove me to suicide. I should just heal and jump right back in? Why? Why would I want to do that to myself?

 

At best I have a 50/50 chance of marrying and being happy. Why would I want to flip a coin with my life? I'm happier now that I have been since I can remember. I know I can be reasonably happy like I am. Why would I want to put that at risk? What is the logic that says I should want to do this? I just don't see it. Is there something I'm missing?

 

I am starting to think that religion has brainwashed people into thinking marriage, or at least a life partnership, are the only viable options in life.

 

Robert Z,

 

You are free to think what you want. You are free do to what you want, if it's not illegal. If it's illegal and you think it shouldn't be, you are of course free to protest.

 

You are free to blame your issues on religion and become bitter, but that doesn't help anything. It just shows that you are frustrated and trying to find a culprit.

 

You know I believe in God. It is my right to believe in God, same as it is your right to not believe in Him. That's fine. Freedom is awesome!!!

 

There are many reasons why I believe God created marriage. Marriage isn't a silly piece of paper that the government makes you buy in order to get registered as being married. No. That's just silly and I personally don't understand why people follow that (including my hubby and me). Marriage = promise, a commitment, a covenant between people which usually involves making a family.

 

Marriage hasn't always been a couple marrying for love. Actually, marriage has been for quite a long time a covenant between 2 family groups, in order to unite those family groups. Marriage is thus a framework for families and for building strong family groups.

 

In King David's time, it wasn't uncommon for wealthy or powerful men to marry many wives, as well as have concubines. However, let's fast forward to today and to the "Western World" where most women do not appreciate or like the idea of having "sister" wives.

 

Many women, including myself, greatly appreciate the idea of being "one" with a man. This special union brings joy to many women's hearts. Many men as well enjoy being "one" with a lady. They understand what marriage is = a covenant to be a team together in life. Jesus quotes the following about marriage, while ironically talking about divorce:

 

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[Gen. 1:27] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[Gen. 2:24[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19&version=NIV1984#fen-NIV1984-23766b][/url]]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

 

 

 

- http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19&version=NIV1984

 

 

Now, you are of course free to diss what Jesus said. However, many people throughout the ages have found joy and peace in Jesus' teachings. Many great men and women have also found joy and peace in marriage, because they believe it is a great framework for raising a family! My parents, my grandparents, and many other amazing couples I know (both older and younger than my husband and me) show that marriage is indeed a wonderful thing! My husband and I, by the way, experience marriage to be a great blessing and joy to both of us!

 

Although sadly there are many many marriages that fail, those that survive and are strong show that marriage can indeed be wonderful. However, interestingly it depends on the character and the integrity of both persons in the couple.

 

As for prostitution, prostitution is not a commitment to unite families. It's rather a simple business transaction: trading money or some other thing for sex. Prostitution is not the ideal framework/foundation for raising children. Rather, it's simply a service that focuses on the lusts of some people and strives to meet the demands for said lusts.

 

Marriage, however, is a foundation for raising a family. Studies have shown that strong and healthy marriages help the offspring of said marriages, whereas single parents sadly have more struggles in life, due to many raising their children without much help. Many children who do not know their Dad or Mom tend to have a hard time, whereas children who know and have healthy relationships with both their Dad and Mom tend to feel more secure and happy as they grow.

 

Many people understand that marriage is not a magical institution that makes a couple "happy." Rather, marriage is simply a framework that can be built on or destroyed. Jesus also says that a house divided against itself cannot stand. (Mark 3:25) When a couple strives to make the marriage strong and good, it is.

 

If you do not want to get married again, that is fine. Nobody is forcing you to marry. However, please note that just because you experienced a horrible marriage, that does not negate that other people experience wonderful marriages. I personally have experienced both. When I was 23 and a virgin, I got married. However, we did not get along very well. We divorced after about 5 years of trying to "make it work."

 

Now by God's grace, I have been married a year to a wonderful man who loves God and loves me!!! We don't know the future of course, but our goal and desire includes growing old together and greatly enjoying life together!!! He does not need a prostitute nor has he expressed any desire to visit them. He is happy that I love having sex with him and more than that, that I love being with him and living with him and being a part of the team where he is the leader!!!

 

Again, you can become bitter and blame religion. However, I would think the best thing to do is consider that other people have experienced wonderful marriages without wanting to visit prostitutes. It is possible; it just takes integrity and values. One doesn't even need to believe in God to have a good marriage. Rather, one needs to have a wonderful relationship with another human and consider the commitment (marriage) to be a blessing, because it most definitely can be, like a house can be a wonderful home!!!

[eleanorrigby]

Do what you have to do. A paid for encounter will usually and hopefully get you exactly the experience you asked for and needed. The lady gets to pay her bills and you get what you need. Everyone's happy.

 

I agree with the other poster though about not mentioning to family and friends about the professionals. What's the point of telling them?

[Sauron]

Hey Robert, I have a buddy that pretty much follows your plan. He is happy, you get what you want and I think it was Charlie Sheen that said you don't pay them for sex, you pay them to leave after sex. Young, mature, black, white Asian all at once, a smorgasboard of lovin. I am new here and I am a MM with a mistress (sounds so much better than OW). Whether you agree with what I do, or anyone else approves who cares, we have one life, live it like you want.

 

There is a bit of the moral majority here and some posters with vitriloic, mean sprited, self righteuosness remarks regarding my lifestyle, that speak in terms of absoultes, who Fing cares. My supposition is that they are lonely and bitter that someone finds something that works that doesn't fit there ego centric view of the world. Good luck.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Divorced two years ago and miserable for the previous twenty, sexless for ten

 

 

When I say I nearly allowed my marriage to destroy me, it doesn't cause a hiccup. Obviously that is all over now so I should just pretend it didn't happen?

 

No, not at all. I don't see in any of your posts that you are even thinking about WHY you "allowed yourself" (your words) to remain completely miserable for TWENTY YEARS.

 

Even if your wife is the Medusa from Hell, you chose to remain …

 

And you chose to accept a sexless marriage.

 

I believe that you are struggling a lot with YOUR part in all of that. Again, regardless of what a monster you wife might have been - and I rarely believe that a total failed relationship can be 100% the fault of only one if its members - WHY DID YOU STAY?

 

Truly, do not beat yourself up about that. It's behind you now. You have plenty of life left ahead of you. Every day is a gift.

 

But those who say that you should be healing, or look for help, or whatever might be responding partly to that. I mean, you really cannot go from abject misery to true "happiness" because you found beautiful girls who will be nice to you, help you feel good about yourself, and have sex for money.

 

I am sure that has a therapeutic role and may even be the "answer" for you having sex and women in your life from here on out - but it is not touching on what went on during your 20 years of misery and how you emerged from that.

 

I don't believe that your life will be OK unless you deal with that. I really truly believe that "the unexamined life is not worth living."

 

That has nothing to do with whether you get your woman -fixes from prostitutes or elsewhere.

 

 

I am starting to think that religion has brainwashed people into thinking marriage, or at least a life partnership, are the only viable options in life.

 

Live as you see fit, but I do hope you will look at some of the things that have been said to you here that are NOT what you want to hear, without just throwing them all into the "you are just closed minded / religious zealots / jealous sexless crones / brainwashed" bins.

 

I really think you showed up here at LoveShack for some reasons other than boasting about your adventures at the bunny ranch, or wherever.

[irin]

answer this: why is it you make thread after thread trying to somehow justify your so called "intimacy" with hookers?

 

honestly no cares if you like hookers so much.

[Robert Z]

The actual percentage of people who have strongly objected to you visiting prostitutes, I think, are something like 1% here. I can only think of a few names, and all of them are extremely religious and are against other commonly-accepted stuff such as homosexual marriages and abortion rights as well.

 

I'm pretty certain that both Mme C and myself have never said that we don't approve of you visiting prostitutes, for one thing.

 

The problem most of us have with you is that you tend to go into almost poetic praise of prostitutes being lovely, wonderful, and gracious women who love having sex with older men like yourself and are genuinely attracted to you. [qoute]Our point is that they are businesswomen like anyone else. Please go ahead with visiting them, but stop deluding yourself that they are sleeping with you because they are attracted to you. They are sleeping with you because you are a good business deal.

 

Is it precisely your sort of mischaractization of my position that has forced much of the discussion. You have consistently misrepresented what I have said and the points I have tried to make. That you insist on lying about my position pretty much says it all.

 

So your answer is that I don't really have any other options but you aren't willing to just admit that without attacking me.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Robert Z

[Robert Z]

I ABSOLUTELY approve. My issue with you, as you present yourself here on LS, is mostly summed up by Elswyth's post above. Why the desperate seeming need to present all of your encounters with pros as something so romantic, and your desperation to have all of us buy into that? Why the F do you CARE?

 

That isn't how it went down AT ALL. I tried to explain that this isn't nearly the ugly and negative experience you all insisted, and you wouldn't hear of it. Every time I tried to explain the positive elements of this, my words were taken completely out of context because you can't admit that there may be more to this than your narrow view allows. Not once have your or Elsworth, or Radu, or most anyone here, accurately reflected what I have actually said. You have forced me to defend this in ways I never intended. You have forced the discussion by misrepresenting the facts.

 

You have even presented posts to put the rest of us women "on notice." Do you realize that we DON'T CARE that you and guys like you can buy sex from beautiful women? And you should be fine with us not caring! Have at it!

 

I was simply stating a fact. And it wasn't about me. It was about the women out there who think their husbands will go forever without sex. That may have worked back when it was hard to cheat, but the internet has changed everything. Speaking as a betrayed man, that you don't like my jab for the brotherhood is just too bad. So yes, lonely and desperate men, if your wife is a selfish bitch, I say go for it! Don't waste your life like I did.

 

The rest of what's off-putting about your persona here has been stated directly by you in your several posts about how men are "entitled" to have sex with women, and women are "obliged" to have sex with their husbands, and your completely false assertions about female sexuality in general and specifically about that of middle aged women.

 

Again, you are incapable of getting one fact straight. I made it clear that this was contingent on love. If you love your husband you will not deny him sex. I stand by that. IF you can't handle that, too bad.

[Sauron]

Robert like I said I found in my breif time here that there is a certain group here that has an ingrained dogma. Find you a special lady, and maybe her friend on ocassion and go for it. I think every encounter with a female, can be extremely intimate and connecting, regardless of what brought you togther, nature made us us that way, no fuss no muss. As I mentioned on here a while back that I feel love for all the women in my life and that is past, present and future. To the other posters in this thread, I believe that any appropriate post that conforms to the rules is allowed. If you don't like it, don't respond, don't read it, ignore it, but then it might get kind of dull around here. I mean I think this is a place to talk about all realationships that humans can conceive of and interact within.

[eleanorrigby]

I don't understand why this is even an issue. You are not married, it's your money. Why is this a "thing"?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Robert, now you are starting to seem seriously disturbed. No one has "lied" about what you have said. We have READ what you've said, and THAT is what we react and respond to. When I have time, I will show you exactly what I mean.

 

In the meanwhile, hardly anyone has said that your hookups with pros has to have been "ugly and negative." We are taking some issue with your application of unicorns, rainbows and fairy dust to a fairly … base commercial exchange, but that is all.

 

Not only are you evidently desperate to have a bunch of strangers, your sister, all your friends and who knows who else give you kudos for your choice of how to get sex, you also seem tremendously invested in labeling all of us harshly. Everybody who isn't throwing some glitter your way is "narrow," etc. I think you are looking for a new way to feel like a victim.

[It's Just Me]

Robert, now you are starting to seem seriously disturbed. No one has "lied" about what you have said. We have READ what you've said, and THAT is what we react and respond to. When I have time, I will show you exactly what I mean.

 

In the meanwhile, hardly anyone has said that your hookups with pros has to have been "ugly and negative." We are taking some issue with your application of unicorns, rainbows and fairy dust to a fairly … base commercial exchange, but that is all.

 

Not only are you evidently desperate to have a bunch of strangers, your sister, all your friends and who knows who else give you kudos for your choice of how to get sex, you also seem tremendously invested in labeling all of us harshly. Everybody who isn't throwing some glitter your way is "narrow," etc. I think you are looking for a new way to feel like a victim.

 

Agree. TMI. If it's not a big deal, and Robert doesn't care what the world thinks, he should stop asking what the world thinks, STFU, and go on his merry way.

[Spark1111]

Look Robert, if you are happy then I am happy for you.

 

But if you think that prosties are a panacea NOW for the anger you have at having a sexless marriage for 10 years that made you almost suicidal....without counseling...than I don't buy that everything is wonderful and you are okay.

 

Me thinks you may protest too much.

 

And we all know a prostie wiil not give one whit if you are sick, or depressed, or unemployed, or incapable of intimacy, or care, or love.

 

Just remember, you get what you pay for.

 

So maybe take a look inside, and if you are ok with it, then I am okay for you.

 

But if you ever crave more, and find yourself again unhappy because it is not at the end of a dollar bill or a BJ, then really self-examine, please.

 

What you want is exactly what you will get....payment to the professionals or not.