BPD: let's talk

[Eternal Sunshine]

Does anyone here believe themselves to have BPD?

 

I was never diagnosed but I feel that I have a very mild case of it. I am not completely sure though as all the books I read on it present more severe cases. It also doesn't seem to impact my career or friendships (both areas are stable), only my romantic relationships.

 

I have also never cut myself, was suicidal or had strong addictions to anything.

 

How do you know if you have it?

Edited September 7, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Clarify

[Anela]

Does anyone here believes to have BPD?

 

I was never diagnosed but I feel that I have a very mild case of it. I am not completely sure though as all the books I read on it present more severe cases. It also doesn't seem to impact my career or friendships (both areas are stable), only my romantic relationships.

 

I have also never cut myself, was suicidal or had strong addictions to anything.

 

How do you know if you have it?

 

I've wondered if I have it, in the past couple of months. I hope not, because the descriptions freak me out, but so does the way I've been feeling at times.

 

I don't cut, but I have almost always interfered with scars healing. I pick at things, and have to remind myself to stop. I thought that was something I inherited from an aunt, but wondered about it recently, if it was considered to be something in the realm of cutting.

 

I've had strong suicidal feelings, over the past few years - especially the last two. They ease off, but then hit with a real intensity when I feel anxiety, and especially with the things that have been going on in my life. Too much loss. I usually don't match up to several things on the list, regarding relationships, but I wondered if something like this could be triggered via loss of what felt like an important relationship (at the time), several deaths, and family relationships falling apart - my family has always been the one good thing about my life, and with that disintegrating...

 

No substance abuse, unless you count chocolate. No promiscuous sex, I can't afford to overspend, I tried to get drunk but didn't like the feeling so I stopped. Still, I can relate to several things mentioned above.

[betterdeal]

It's a dubious diagnosis at the best of times, but even ignoring that, everyone can exhibit several of the traits used for diagnosis to some degree without being severe enough to qualify for diagnosis. This is the reason it resonates so much with so many people: many of the traits used to describe it are all pretty normal behaviours.

 

The chances of a false positive diagnosis by a clinician are high given how subjective it is, and much much higher when attempted by a unqualified layman, especially when the person diagnosing is personally involved with the person being diagnosed.

 

Putting that aside, exhibiting the traits indicates a troubled mind, and central to PDs is a poor sense of self, and problems relating between one's emotions and one's self. DBT is an effective form of therapy for BPD, and also a good therapy for other sensitive people who may not meet the diagnostic criteria fully, but are troubled and experience problems with their emotional life. Personally, I'd recommend reading "Don't Let Your Emotions Run Your Life" which I found profoundly helpful.

 

Lastly, I recommend not trawling the Internet too much for information about BPD. There's a lot of fearful crap out there written by hurt individuals. Check the dates, qualifications, peer reviews and the other usual things you'd use for any other form of critical analysis of any academic work. Or take a big pinch of salt.

Edited September 7, 2012 by betterdeal

[whichwayisup]

Does anyone here believe themselves to have BPD?

 

I was never diagnosed but I feel that I have a very mild case of it. I am not completely sure though as all the books I read on it present more severe cases. It also doesn't seem to impact my career or friendships (both areas are stable), only my romantic relationships.

 

I have also never cut myself, was suicidal or had strong addictions to anything.

 

How do you know if you have it?

 

Why do you think you're BP? You say 'mild case' .. so are you talking mood swings and anger, then feeling down (depressed) then you swing to the high (happier) mood?

 

If one is BP, it affects ALL parts of their lives not just relationships.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Why do you think you're BP? You say 'mild case' .. so are you talking mood swings and anger, then feeling down (depressed) then you swing to the high (happier) mood?

 

If one is BP, it affects ALL parts of their lives not just relationships.

 

That's what a therapist told me when I suggested that I have it.

 

I guess from the list: I tend to think in black and white terms a lot. I have trouble with grey areas. I also have difficulty controlling my emotions, mainly anger and sadness. I have some swings like, I can feel extreme anger at someone for a few hours then it would be gone (I wouldn't necessarily feel happy, just not angry anymore), My romantic relationships are often "unstable" and I always have fears of my partners leaving.

[Star Gazer]

Wait. WWIU sounds like she's talking about Bi-Polar (BP), not Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

[Anela]

Putting that aside, exhibiting the traits indicates a troubled mind, and central to PDs is a poor sense of self, and problems relating between one's emotions and one's self. DBT is an effective form of therapy for BPD, and also a good therapy for other sensitive people who may not meet the diagnostic criteria fully, but are troubled and experience problems with their emotional life. Personally, I'd recommend reading "Don't Let Your Emotions Run Your Life" which I found profoundly helpful.

 

Thank you for the book link. I've added it to my wish list.

 

I have a book from Recovery Inc. around here somewhere. I was supposed to try going to meetings years ago, but something kept coming up. I tried calling into phone meetings, but could never be sure that I was on mute. If the dogs weren't barking, then it would be something else (like my swearing under my breath, only to hear, "We'll have none of that language in Recovery!" )

[Exit]

When it comes to BPD I've always heard that it's the type of thing where if you have it, you'd be way too detached from reality to ever even start thinking that maybe you have a personality disorder. That goes for many of the other disorders as well. Basically it's the old "crazy people don't think they're going crazy, they think they're the only sane person" routine. Some of the key aspects of BPD are lack of empathy for how you affect other people, rewriting history in your own mind to make things sound a certain way, never taking blame, etc. So if all of those things are going on in your head, you'd never take the time or have the perspective to think "gee, maybe something is wrong with me". It would be like saying "I just read this medical book and I'm starting to think I might be blind". If you were blind you'd lack the sight to read the book and if you had BPD you'd lack the inner vision to analyze your own behaviors in a way that would ever suggest you were the one doing something wrong. Although, with all that in mind, I guess I've heard that "self-realized" BPD cases are rare, but not impossible.

 

As others have mention, diagnosing yourself never works out, disorders all contain separate behaviors that each and every human being is capable of doing at some point in time. Any of us can read a list of certain traits and start to worry that we have it.

 

Rather than worrying what disorder you might be able to classify yourself as, I would just forego worrying about what to label it, and start working on it. You've recognized that romantic relationships are where your experiences have been the worst. Write down what exactly happened, compare it to how you think a normal person would have handled the situation, and ask yourself if next time you can try to act more like what you think would be acceptable. Obviously it's easier said than done and you run into the brick wall of asking "if I knew better or could do better, I would have done that all along". Which comes full circle back to if you actually had a disorder you couldn't just write a few notes to yourself and really be able to fix it. But the fact that you've even started to question yourself about these things shows that you do at least KNOW better. To know that something is wrong you must have the awareness that something else would be better. So identify what you would do differently if you could have the past romantic failures back and then try to become that person.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Thank you exit.

 

Certainly something to think about. Although I am extremely introspective and self-aware so it is possible that I am one of the few self diagnosed cases. Ha

[nc01]

Does anyone here believe themselves to have BPD?

 

I was never diagnosed but I feel that I have a very mild case of it. I am not completely sure though as all the books I read on it present more severe cases. It also doesn't seem to impact my career or friendships (both areas are stable), only my romantic relationships.

 

I have also never cut myself, was suicidal or had strong addictions to anything.

 

How do you know if you have it?

I was diagnosed with BPD about 4 years ago so I can tell you one thing, if something is bothering you enough to make you post a tread then just try to address it with a doctor in more detail.

 

The thing with BPD is that usually you start displaying signs at a very young age, but never really think about it as "not being normal" untill you become an adult and hopefully seek help.

 

I can't tell you if you have BPD or not... I'm not a doctor, but I can tell you that with me, since I was really young... as in 5 years old young.. I was always very shy and thought I was crap. I thought that I didn't deserve anything good happening in my life but then suddenlly I would be all happy and thought I deserved the best (this wouldn't last long though).

 

Throughout the years I have engaged in self harming, a few suicide attemps, excessive behaviour (which could be in any area such as drugs, sex, spending money, etc). Never really had a serious relationship untill I was 28 years and that ended 5 years later because my partner couldn't handle my illness, my lack of self-confidence, my mood swings, black and white thinking, etc (which is quite fair, it's not easy for those who live with a BPD).

 

BPD is usually running side by side with other mental conditions, they appear as a result of BPD, meaning that because BPD emerges at young age and is probably not noticed by friends and family, it then remains untreated until older age giving time for other issues to emerge. In my case, I have eating disorder, dismorphophobia disorder, social anxiety and a few more!

 

I could go on and on about my life here but my point is, insist on finding help if you don't feel good about something. It's sometimes frustrating to find the right help but it's out there somewhere. It's good to feel good about yourself!! I am 34 now, I am treating myself, and only now with a lot of work am I starting to have a small glimpse of what it is not to feel like crap.

 

Also if you ever have suicidal thoughts please speak with someone immediatly, it's a thin line between thinking about it and actually doing it!!

 

Good luck to you

[FitChick]

Let me guess. The only cure is BigPharma. Funny how so many people suddenly have this "disorder" when a decade or two ago it didn't exist. I credit the marketing department.

 

I agree that at certain stressful times of life, you could have many of the symptoms as a normal reaction to your situation. I sure did until I 'fixed' myself without drugs or extensive therapy. PM me if you want to know more.

 

These days I think too many people want to be zombies and not feel anything or else constantly be on a high, which is impossible without drugs or being a self-realized spiritual master.

 

A simple, more productive route as someone mentioned, is to work on one problem at a time. As you fix one, your self-esteem will increase and your feelings of powerlessness will decrease. It's certainly a good place to start.

[whichwayisup]

Wait. WWIU sounds like she's talking about Bi-Polar (BP), not Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

 

My mistake. I thought bpd was bi polar disorder not borderline personality disorder.

[Taramere]

Let me guess. The only cure is BigPharma. Funny how so many people suddenly have this "disorder" when a decade or two ago it didn't exist. I credit the marketing department.'

 

It's one of the paradoxes of modern times that we all claim to be more understanding of mental health problems...yet at the same time, more and more behaviour that used to just be described as "a little odd or eccentric" now gets categorised as some disorder or other. Or perhaps it's not a paradox at all. Rather it's a case of "you're mad but that's okay...there's a medication for that..."

 

There's a girl in the place I'm working in who always giggles hysterically when she's making small talk. I don't know how she doesn't drop with exhaustion at the end of the day with all that giggling...but as long as she only does it when she's chatting socially with colleagues, rather than doing it during serious meetings then I don't think anybody minds. She's a lovely girl, and I don't think there's anybody who dislikes her.

 

Put her in a dysfunctional, toxic workplace and within a couple of days, she would probably be categorised by colleagues as having some or other disorder. The desire to react with slack jawed horror and attach these labels to any behaviour that's a little exaggerated or out of the ordinary often says a lot more about the environment in which that's being done - and, perhaps, the problems and personalities of the people who rule the roost in it - than it does about the person themselves.

 

Lastly, I recommend not trawling the Internet too much for information about BPD. There's a lot of fearful crap out there written by hurt individuals.

 

Absolutely. I think there's a human tendency to, as you suggest, pathologise people who dislike or who we've felt hurt by. Or maybe there's a sense of "well, either he/she is mad or I am...and it had better not be me..."

 

I often find people who define themselves as OCD about tidiness annoying and difficult to deal with. As soon as somebody says "I tend to be a bit anal about...." I get a bit of heartsink. In a priority list of 100 things, keeping the different sizes of Post-it notes on my desk constructed in a perfect pyramid or having books perfectly lined up on a shelf at home wouldn't even make it. People who actually prioritise crap like that as part of "essential home or office housekeeping" drive me nuts, and I drive them nuts. It's that old "are they the insane one or am I?" dilemma.

 

The reality is, just two different types of people who have to employ a bit of tolerance and humour about their differences in order to get along. It's when that tolerance and humour is lacking that the pathologising sets in.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Taramere

[Emilia]

Does anyone here believe themselves to have BPD?

 

I was never diagnosed but I feel that I have a very mild case of it. I am not completely sure though as all the books I read on it present more severe cases. It also doesn't seem to impact my career or friendships (both areas are stable), only my romantic relationships.

 

I have also never cut myself, was suicidal or had strong addictions to anything.

 

How do you know if you have it?

 

betterdeal's post is spot on

 

I don't think you have it. I know people with BPD and while everyone is different, what they display is something that is clearly very alien to the rest of us. It isn't just 'emotional instability' for want of a better expression. BPD is a very bizarre condition that defies rationality completely.

 

BPDs are also often capable of very strong child-like love coupled with loyalty, this is one of the reasons why many of us find them captivating beyond the personality traits that we discover within ourselves also. You always say you have never been in love, I don't think BPDs are able to make that claim usually.

[TaraMaiden]

Isn't being "slightly Bi-Polar" like being "Slightly pregnant"...?

 

You either are, or you're not.

We all have a degree of a "disorder" to some extent.

It's a recent craze designed to pigeon-hole people.

Other terms currently bandied around are 'sociopath' and 'Narcissist'.

 

I'm OCD - to some extent. But I don't have OCD. So I would never describe myself as being or having OCD.

As a former School Governor, I met literally dozens of children with Dyslexia.

I would comfortably state that maybe of sll of those, only four were genuinely Dyslexic.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Actually Tara, "The Anal" people annoy me as well and I am completely opposite of that.

 

I remember the first time I met my ex's mother and she told me that when she folds towels, she takes the ruler out to make sure each is folded exactly the same way My heart sunk as I knew we won't get along. In am too "chaotic" to get along with people like that. Even if I was jobless, I still would never measure how towels are folded nor would I care. At all. And yes, she hated me.

[TaraMaiden]

......And yes, she hated me.

 

...What does that have to do with anything?

[Eternal Sunshine]

Isn't being "slightly Bi-Polar" like being "Slightly pregnant"...?

 

You either are, or you're not.

We all have a degree of a "disorder" to some extent.

It's a recent craze designed to pigeon-hole people.

Other terms currently bandied around are 'sociopath' and 'Narcissist'.

 

I'm OCD - to some extent. But I don't have OCD. So I would never describe myself as being or having OCD.

As a former School Governor, I met literally dozens of children with Dyslexia.

I would comfortably state that maybe of sll of those, only four were genuinely Dyslexic.

 

TM - I am talking about Borderline Personality Disorder not Bi-Polar (which I am 100% I am not). While I agree that you either are or you aren't, there are varying degree of severity. If I have BPD, it's a very mild case.

[Eternal Sunshine]

...What does that have to do with anything?

 

Taramere posted about "anal people". I was addressing her

[snug.bunny]

Bipolar is a mood disorder

BPD is a personality disorder

 

If you have either, and not on proper medication or receiving therapy, those around you would definitely take notice...

 

My aunt cared for a friend of hers who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Her cycle consisted of months being depressed in bed, to a complete state of mania that lasted a few days, then back to being depressed.

 

I visited her a couple times, and when she was depressed, it was highly apparent. When she was manic, I definitely noticed --> she was "highly elated", "heightened", her eyes were sharp and piercing. She’d go on shopping binges, purchasing tons of desserts but would not eat them. I absolutely knew something was off.

 

Sadly, she passed away (she was older and abused prescription meds and alcohol and didn't follow proper medical care).

 

If you find yourself identifying with some of the symptoms, that doesn't mean you necessarily have it. If you're concerned, I would seek a professional opinion.

[Taramere]

Actually Tara, "The Anal" people annoy me as well and I am completely opposite of that.

 

I remember the first time I met my ex's mother and she told me that when she folds towels, she takes the ruler out to make sure each is folded exactly the same way My heart sunk as I knew we won't get along. In am too "chaotic" to get along with people like that. Even if I was jobless, I still would never measure how towels are folded nor would I care. At all. And yes, she hated me.

 

Yeah, and because they are so into control I think it's a lot harder for them to tolerate other people's different approach. Even if you try to do things their way, it's never quite neat and ordered enough.

 

I think one of the main features of people with personality disorders involves their tendency to split; either idealising people or demonising them.....which makes them constant sources of drama; very toxic and tiring to deal with. I wouldn't take it on myself to try to diagnose somebody as having BPD, but there are times a client has walked into my office and I've very quickly started to think "I'm going to have to find a way to shunt this one on elsewhere."

 

I know that people working in mental health support agencies would react angrily to that and say "how heartless...how lacking in empathy"...but the bottom line is that if I end up getting harassed by somebody with those sorts of problems (eg because I gave them advice they didn't like - and they really can be a huge headache to deal with), I won't get support....so I'm not going to place myself in that line of fire.

 

Just from the way you present yourself on here, I've never had a heartsink sense of "God, she sounds like somebody I'd be looking to shunt on to my worst enemy ASAP". You seem rational, proportionate, and objective. There's not a sense of you being more prone than the average person to splitting people into "idealised" and "demonised" categories.

 

I'm not sure why you would see yourself as having a mild personality disorder. Romantic ups and downs are surely something that only the very lucky avoid.

[carhill]

When a person is perceived as 'idealized', is the BPD sufferer prone to abrogating their normal filters of propriety? I ask because I've experienced inappropriate sexual behaviors from someone classically dx'd as bi-polar, but the person exhibits 'light-switch' behavior changes, where idealizing changes to demonizing within seconds/minutes. The person is married (not to me) and I can attribute this to no other disorder. I understand that bi-polar people can exhibit hyper-sexual behavior in manic phase but generally bi-polar does not present rapid changes and behavior and mood.

 

This example has been fairly consistent over the last 20 years or so. For myself, this has been very disconcerting. For her H, maddening. I doubt he knows what she's done around me. Sad. TBH, I'm often fearful of calling her out on her behaviors simply because of the 'demon' response. Sucks.

[betterdeal]

carhill, have you ever met a woman and thought "she's good looking" and carried on your business without acting on that thought? I imagine you have done many times, just as most of us have.

 

What happened in that split second is you felt attracted, and ran that past your conscious mind which took into account the circumstances, your beliefs and ideals, your self-image, your marriage, your choice of lifestyle and decided not to act on that feeling. Do that enough times and it becomes second nature, like driving a car or riding a bicycle. Perhaps now you don't even notice it happening you're so attuned to doing it now. You may even short circuit the conscious mind altogether because the subconscious has learned that this is a blind alley. But maybe in the early days of your relationship it was more noticeable.

 

The woman you described sounds like she has a similar process going on but reaches a different conclusion: something along the lines of, she feels attracted and passes that to her conscious mind, just as you did. However, her beliefs about herself, love, feelings, life are such that she may believe that these feelings are signs of "True Love" and that she is worthy of it. She may in that instant see a beautiful future unfolding in which she finds all the peace and happiness she's been looking for. This feeling of attraction is hugely more significant to her than it is to you. To ignore it or pass it up is to wreck that chance of happiness, so she entertains it and acts on it. But then she may be also aware that this conflicts with her loyalty and love for her husband, her sympathy for your wife and so on. So she pulls back, feeling guilty. She seeks to blame someone for this terrible turn of events, and you, being the trigger, are someone to pass that blame onto. But she'll apportion some of that blame to herself, putting her back to where she was to start with: unhappy and conflicted, and looking for peace and happiness.

 

Somehow, if she's to mature and still be lively and enjoy life, she'll need to find a way to reconcile seemingly conflicting thoughts, feelings and events in a better way. That's basically what dialectics is about: not seeing things as irreconcilably conflicted but as they are, as part of our experience of life: there are good looking women and men in the world, you will on occasion find some of them attractive, and you choose to not act on that, to accept that feeling and let it pass without following it up, because that is what's best for you, your marriage, your lifestyle.

Edited September 9, 2012 by betterdeal

[carhill]

carhill, have you ever met a woman and thought "she's good looking" and carried on your business without acting on that thought? I imagine you have done many times, just as most of us have.

 

Yes, three times so far, all when I was young and single. Enough, though, to understand what you're speaking of.

 

What happened in that split second is you felt attracted, and ran that past your conscious mind which took into account the circumstances, your beliefs and ideals, your self-image, your marriage, your choice of lifestyle and decided not to act on that feeling. Do that enough times and it becomes second nature, like driving a car or riding a bicycle. Perhaps now you don't even notice it happening you're so attuned to doing it now. You may even short circuit the conscious mind altogether because the subconscious has learned that this is a blind alley. But maybe in the early days of your relationship it was more noticeable

.

 

I made a 'mental note' of the dynamic. I liken this to the words I have often heard from women in the past that they knew they were attracted 'right away', regardless of what next steps were. It'll be interesting to consider how a BPD sufferer processes this, ostensibly in idealization mode, which you're apparently working through next.

 

The woman you described sounds like she has a similar process going on but reaches a different conclusion: something along the lines of, she feels attracted and passes that to her conscious mind, just as you did. However, her beliefs about herself, love, feelings, life are such that she may believe that these feelings are signs of "True Love" and that she is worthy of it. She may in that instant see a beautiful future unfolding in which she finds all the peace and happiness she's been looking for. This feeling of attraction is hugely more significant to her than it is to you. To ignore it or pass it up is to wreck that chance of happiness, so she entertains it and acts on it. But then she may be also aware that this conflicts with her loyalty and love for her husband, her sympathy for your wife and so on. So she pulls back, feeling guilty. She seeks to blame someone for this terrible turn of events, and you, being the trigger, are someone to pass that blame onto. But she'll apportion some of that blame to herself, putting her back to where she was to start with: unhappy and conflicted, and looking for peace and happiness.

This part sounds more typical of how a non-BPD psychology might respond to emotional inputs, but could relate to BPD psychology as well, on some level.

 

Somehow, if she's to mature and still be lively and enjoy life, she'll need to find a way to reconcile seemingly conflicting thoughts, feelings and events in a better way. That's basically what dialectics is about: not seeing things as irreconcilably conflicted but as they are, as part of our experience of life: there are good looking women and men in the world, you will on occasion find some of them attractive, and you choose to not act on that, to accept that feeling and let it pass without following it up, because that is what's best for you, your marriage, your lifestyle.

This particular example is 56 so I would surmise her behavioral standards/style are/is pretty well entrenched. I knew something was 'different' long before I learned about personality disorder/mental illness, etc. in any specific way. My male friend often compliments me on how I 'handle' his wife and I explain to him that I use the same skills I developed caring for a psychotic person. The really tough part is the switches. There are few to no consistent triggers to avoid. That might tie in to what you were sharing prior, that real life interactions in the moment have nothing to do with the emotions she's processing at the time and the 'switch' could simply be 'blame' assigned from an emotional process running that has nothing to do with our interaction or my behavior.

 

What is markedly disconcerting and what prompted my posting here is/was hypersexual behaviors completely out of character for what I would consider to be her '99%' personality of very conservative. It's not so much the nature of the behavior being sexual, but rather how polar opposite it is from her 'normal' personality and how quickly it appears and disappears, literally in seconds sometimes, almost like an alternative personality appears. Then, minutes later, I could be getting chewed out about essentially nothing. My exW used to tell me this person gave her a stomach ache just being around her.

 

Anyway, after many years as a caregiver, I see such things as more of a curiosity and don't take them personally. I was curious if anyone else had experienced anything similar. Thanks for the feedback.