Curse of Ham and the justification of enslavement of blacks

[joystickd]

[sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000](Genesis ch.9 v.20-27)[/COLOR][/sIZE] [sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000]“And Noah began to be a husbandman, and he planted a vineyard.

And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brethren outside.

And Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were turned away, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

And he said, "Cursed be Canaan! A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."

And he said, "Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”[/COLOR][/sIZE]

 

[sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/sIZE]

 

[sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/sIZE]

[sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000]Looking at this I think how can this be used to justify enslavement of blacks when Canaan was cursed and not Ham. His other sons Cush, Put, and Mizraim went to Africa. They were not cursed. Why is a misinterpretation of what is said being used as justification?

[/COLOR][/sIZE]

[kae]

i dont understand.

[BetheButterfly]

[sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000](Genesis ch.9 v.20-27)[/COLOR][/sIZE] [sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000]“And Noah began to be a husbandman, and he planted a vineyard.

And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brethren outside.

And Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were turned away, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

And he said, "Cursed be Canaan! A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."

And he said, "Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”[/COLOR][/sIZE]

 

[sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/sIZE]

 

[sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/sIZE]

[sIZE=+1][COLOR=#000000]Looking at this I think how can this be used to justify enslavement of blacks when Canaan was cursed and not Ham. His other sons Cush, Put, and Mizraim went to Africa. They were not cursed. Why is a misinterpretation of what is said being used as justification?

[/COLOR][/sIZE]

 

 

I think people who do not like people of other skin colors use this to try to justify their ideas, sadly.

 

Many people were slaves. The children of Israel were slaves in Egypt before God sent Moses to lead them out and to the "Promised Land."

 

It is really sad when people use Bible verses in order to enslave, put down, or hurt other people.

 

I think basically people find in different ancient books what they want. For example, both people who are pacifists (like me) and who are for war can find passages of both in the Bible, as well as other ancient books.

 

It shows the heart of a person how they interpret things... if they get from an ancient book the ideas to love other and help others, that shows they have a caring heart.

 

Personally, I love how Jesus talked about the Good Samaritan. Sadly, many Jewish people despised Samaritans during Jesus' time. However, Jesus showed that it is the heart that counts, and helping people. The Samaritan man kindly helped the Jewish man who was robbed and beaten, whereas the other Jewish people in his parable did not help the man. (Luke 10:25-37)

 

Sadly throughout the ages, some Christians did not understand that all people are equal under God. They didn't get that we are all brothers and sisters (Luke 8:21), no matter what ethnicity we are.

 

Paul makes it clear to Christians that we are all one in Christ, no matter our ethnicity, social status, or gender! (Galatians 3:28)

 

It is so horrible and tragic that many "Christians" through the ages enslaved other people. I am so glad for the Christians who woke up and understand that this is evil, and fought to make slavery illegal!

[M30USA]

This chapter is beyond most people's comprehension. If you really want answers, you better be prepared to dig in deep and spend hours upon hours researching this subject. Otherwise, you're better off leaving it alone. Additionaly, determine at the outset whether you are only going to accept what is politically correct, or whether you want to understand God's Word and how it's played out in history.

Edited September 8, 2012 by M30USA

[TheFinalWord]

It's even worse when you realize Noah wasn't white.

[M30USA]

It's even worse when you realize Noah wasn't white.

 

What race/nationality/color do you believe he was?

[TheFinalWord]

What race/nationality/color do you believe he was?

 

Well, my hunch would be Middle Eastern. What do you think?

[M30USA]

Okay, I'll go with that. Not sure there is any biblical verification of this, but I've always assumed the same.

 

What you might be surprised to know is that ancient Jews had extremely dark skin. It's been determined that the most pure blood Jews at the present time reside in Ethiopia and look nearly African. They have an exotic look. I believe this makes sense since apparently the Bible documents that the last time the ark was mentioned, it was taken to an area near Ethiopia by King Solomon. These Jews in Ethiopia are faschinating because they still follow the Levitcal laws completely--yet they celebrate Jesus as messiah. There is much mystery and conspiracy theory surrounding a temple they have in Ethiopa which they perpetually have surrounded by armed guards and many people believe contains the ark of the covenant.

Edited September 9, 2012 by M30USA

[TheFinalWord]

Okay, I'll go with that. Not sure there is any biblical verification of this, but I've always assumed the same.

 

What you might be surprised to know is that ancient Jews had extremely dark skin. It's been determined that the most pure blood Jews at the present time reside in Ethiopia and look nearly African. They have an exotic look. I believe this makes sense since apparently the Bible documents that the last time the ark was mentioned, it was taken to an area near Ethiopia by King Solomon. These Jews in Ethiopia are faschinating because they still follow the Levitcal laws completely--yet they celebrate Jesus as messiah. There is much mystery and conspiracy theory surrounding a temple they have in Ethiopa which they perpetually have surrounded by armed guards and many people believe contains the ark of the covenant.

 

Pretty interesting. I've never heard of that before. Do you have any links or books I could look at?? Maybe a connection with...

 

Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch

 

26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place. 27 And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship 28 and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” 30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

 

32 Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

 

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter

and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,

so he opens not his mouth.

33 In his humiliation justice was denied him.

Who can describe his generation?

For his life is taken away from the earth.”

 

34 And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. 36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

[M30USA]

Oh, gosh, it will take me a while to find a reference for this.

 

 

On another note, are you aware of the recent explosion of information about Neanderthal DNA? Most races on earth today contain 1 to 3% Neanderthal DNA. However, there is one race which contains little or none at all. Do you wanna take a stab at which one this is? Anyone?

[M30USA]

I'd like a source for that claim, M30.

 

What claim, that the purest genetic Jews are in Ethiopia?

[123321]

The one about Neanderthal DNA.

 

This is a fast reference, it's old news. The predominant idea that Neanderthals were primitive has been questioned for a long time, given that if anything they had bigger brains than Homo Sapiens that were contemporary to them.

[M30USA]

This is a fast reference, it's old news. The predominant idea that Neanderthals were primitive has been questioned for a long time, given that if anything they had bigger brains than Homo Sapiens that were contemporary to them.

 

Correct. And the bigger brain size of Neanderthals should be a wakeup call for us to start questioning everything we've been told.

[M30USA]

No, I'm pretty sure M30 was going to reveal that the one mystery race with little-to-no Neanderthal DNA was going to be the Jews.

 

Only blacks have no Neanderthal DNA.

[Hawaii50]

maroons. >10characters<

[M30USA]

Colour me surprised, too.

 

This is one of those things where the data is truly puzzling--for all sides and viewpoints. I'm currently trying to wrap my brain around it and hold off on conclusions.

[M30USA]

Based on my research, my best guess is that Jesus looked most like an Ethiopian Jew. If you haven't seen them. take a look. They have very dark skin, but it's not entirely what we consider Black. Very unique, exotic look. Anyway, these Jews in Ethiopa are supposed to be the most genetically pure ancestors of ancient Israelites.

 

 

Here is a young Jewish man from Ethiopia:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=ethiopian+jew&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1525&bih=669&tbm=isch&tbnid=1ZY9LcaTVAZ7LM:&imgrefurl=http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/07/ethiopian-jew-beaten-and-electric-shocked-by-israeli-cop-who-allegedly-told-him-to-go-back-to-africa-123.html&docid=KAyOCxqGHxCikM&imgurl=http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e201774326b382970d-400wi&w=353&h=567&ei=llBWUMKtMIGi2AW2moD4DQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=341&vpy=113&dur=7045&hovh=285&hovw=177&tx=97&ty=190&sig=115860155198369651007&page=2&tbnh=146&tbnw=105&start=21&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:21,i:146

Edited September 16, 2012 by M30USA

[M30USA]

I dont think its troubling at all. Its very simple for me. When the bible was written by man they carried thier racism into it. I mean look at all the images related to the bible. They are nothing but pictures of pure caucasions. Yet look at the environment this all was said to take place in. Thats like a history book from china with all black people in it. How much can you trust that?

 

Where does it say that whites are better than everyone in the Bible? Where is the racism?

 

I see quite the opposite.

 

When Jesus returns, it says in that he will have followers from all across the world: "After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:9)

[M30USA]

So where are all the middle eastern people in the pictures in the bible? You put up a pciture of what you though they would look like. I dont see anything like that in the bible. So why not show them as they truly were?

 

What pictures in the Bible? What? Dude...what are you smoking? Are you talking about what the Bible says or what society SAYS the Bible says? Don't confuse the two.

[M30USA]

You know exactly what Im talking about. Why arent any pictures bible related showing people of color. Jesus description is from any image I have ever seen of him.

 

Because people and cultures are stupid--no exceptions. But the Bible is God's Word. Don't blame the Bible when people posit their own false beliefs onto it, especially this one because it's simply ridiculous. Some false beliefs at least can be excused due to certain gray areas in the Bible, but this one is unfounded.

[BetheButterfly]

You know exactly what Im talking about. Why arent any pictures bible related showing people of color. Jesus description is from any image I have ever seen of him.

 

Jewish people of long time ago did not draw pictures or make statues of anyone in their history. That is why you cannot find any pictures made by Jewish people of the past concerning what Moses or Joseph or King David or Jesus looked like, because they did not believe in making drawings or statues of their Patriarchs. It could actually even be against the 10 Commandments, though that'd be a good question to ask a Jewish Rabbi, since I don't know for sure.

 

Now, you can find pictures made by Gentiles, with their imaginations of what the famous Jewish people in the past looked like, but it's important to note that this is because of the Roman and Greek culture, where drawing and making statues was a part of how they worshiped gods. The Romans and the Greeks made idols in this way.

 

Roman and Greek ideas influenced the church when Constantine adopted Christianity. Because the Roman Empire reached Europe, many European Christians began drawing, using their imaginations as to what these great men of Jewish history looked like, as well as Jesus. Their imaginations took into consideration their own culture, not so much the Jewish culture.

[nofool4u]

Yet what does every picture of jesus look like. Doesnt look like a middle eastern man to me.

 

I think he does. He doesn't have to look like Osama to be middle eastern.

 

I see some depictions of Jesus and he looks whiter than olive, and alot of others he has that olive complexion.