Cousin already marginalizing fat people

[RiverRunning]

I'm largely involved in raising my 6-year-old cousin. My cousin, his mother, is a single parent. So, during the week, it's mostly my mom and me taking care of him. His mother mostly sees him on the weekends when she's not juggling her two jobs.

 

I have lost significant amounts of weight over the years - I went from being about 130 pounds overweight at my heaviest to 30 - 40 overweight presently. I have always struggled with my weight and still do so. My mom and my cousin's mom both struggle with their weight, too.

 

The difference is that my mom and cousin are both the types to always go through the litany of, "I'm so fat," "I look so big," "I need to lose weight," "I need to get skinny," in front of him.

 

My cousin came up to me - the kid cousin, not his mom - and started telling me that he needed to lose weight. I have tried to tell him that even if he were overweight, he would still be him and we would still love him - that would not change at all. Naturally, I want him to be healthy, but that's about more than his external appearance. He's actually quite thin and quite tall.

 

Every now and then he'll be walking around saying, "I never want to be fat, I like being really skinny."

 

And it got even worse, as he now has a crush. He told one of our other cousins, who is a bit overweight, "Is your girlfriend chubby? My girlfriend is skinny." I was not only embarrassed, but appalled too.

 

I understand that everybody has their preferences, and he may turn out to prefer thin women as he gets older. But I do not want this correlation that "thin is the only thing that makes a woman beautiful or worthwhile" to continue. He doesn't have to date fat girls, but at the very least he can recognize that they are also worthwhile people who can be his friends, even if he finds he's not attracted to them.

 

I don't use negative body language about myself around him. It is a hard, hard road to feel in any way good about yourself when you have so many who want to make you feel like garbage, as though that will help your weight problem.

 

But what can we start doing? I've thought of discussing it with my cousin and my mom - they do need to alter their language. But at this point, is there anyway to counter this idea? To teach him that even though his friends at school may believe in that nonsense, he doesn't have to?

 

I grew up feeling ostracized and I was bullied at various times in my life because of my weight. I do not want my kid to be the one doing that to others, and I fear he may if this continues.

 

Any help?

[Lauriebell82]

Being overweight is a very negative trait physically and is often an indicator of psychological problems as well. Telling him it's acceptable to be overweight is ridiculous, while you're at it why don't you tell him it'd be fine if he drank excessively?

 

I dont think thats what the OP meant. She isnt condoning being overweight, just that she doesnt want her cousin to be obsessed with being skinny or not like those who are not skinny.

 

OP i too struggle with weight and although i do not feel that i am fat, i do find mysel obsessing over keeping the weight off. I have a 4 month old son and I am going to try not to put those ideas in his head, therefore i will try to teach him healthy living skills, not the "you have to be thin" theory. I ended up with an eating disorder from that line of thinking. I think you should tell the parents tht you are concerned about comments that thier son is making and talk about how to fix it. Teaching kids a healthy body image from a young age can prevent psyhological damage later.

[Mme. Chaucer]

As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I knew that the "fat bashers" would show up here to applaud the little fellow for his blossoming attitude. I was right.

 

It offends me a lot.

 

I think I posted about this before, but when my daughter was a very little kid, "The Little Mermaid" came out. We were sitting in my parents' house watching it on video; my brother, who would have been about 29 years old at the time, was watching it with us.

 

He informed us all that Arial was cute, but she was a little bit overweight.

 

I was horrified. It still kind of freaks me out to this day - that a grown man would be perfectly comfortable critiquing the physique of a CARTOON woman. Not to mention that Arial was about as petite as a mermaid could possibly be.

 

He had no problem whatsoever with it, though. He, like a lot of you guys, seemed to have a proprietary sense about the bodies of anything remotely female.

 

He recently married a very gorgeous woman who is exactly half his age. They have had 2 sons. I am concerned about what her fate is going to be if (when) she is no longer the image of perfection. Of course, he is old, bald, a chain smoker and has some serious "issues," but SHE better maintain the figure of a teenager or else …

 

Way off topic, but he also told my daughter, when she was in 6th grade and had taken up playing the trumpet, that she should switch to the cello because it was "sexier."

 

Yucky.

[RiverRunning]

Yeah, I'm not surprised that Greznog decided to troll, as he's one of the worst fat bashers here. Also, a very selective reader who likes to put words in other people's mouths. Sure, if my cousin ever gets overweight, I'll be sure to tell him he's worthless and fat and I'll make sure to emphasize again and again how UNACCEPTABLE he is.

 

Instead of, you know, just trying to make sure he's eating healthy and exercising instead of obsessing over him being thin. That's too much of a way to solve the problem instead of shaming it out of the kid.

 

The issue is this: I don't want him to turn into you, Greznog, nor into anyone else who is obsessed with being thin and only associating with thin women. I hope he grows up and realizes that while HE may not be sexually attracted to overweight women, he can still see them as wonderful and worthwhile people (because being fat doesn't make them any less so).

 

I want him to have a long and happy life. And while he's thin, I see the garbage that other people shovel down his throat - it may not last forever. If it does, it will NOT be an indicator that he's healthy. Just an indicator that he's taking in too few calories to gain weight.

 

My cousin doesn't have a father figure in his life (his dad's a piece of crap). I have thought of trying to sit and talk to him about weight and how weight doesn't make someone a bad person, but I'm not trying to talk to him as though he's done anything wrong. At this point, he's just reflecting what he sees/hears from other people.

 

It's disturbing enough that an average-weight 6-year-old is coming up to me, grabbing the fat on his belly (which is a normal amount) and saying that he needs to lose weight and get skinny. I'm very worried that he's already going to have an abnormal sense of what's average weight, what's overweight, etc. - and that later on down the line if this goes unabated, it could lead to serious health problems for him if he tries to adjust his weight accordingly.

[RiverRunning]

Greznog, you totally missed the part where I was being completely facetious and mocking you in the first paragraph.

 

And yes, it's totally normal to have something you can grab onto on your body. I knew you'd pull up the "to someone who's 40 pounds overweight..." line. He's 3'9" or 3'10" and weighs 50 pounds.

 

What I said about taking in too few calories to gain weight is that it doesn't mean he's taking in calories from healthy food sources. If I eat 1800 calories of McDonald's or 1800 calories of fresh fruits or fresh vegetables, it's not really going to make a difference.

[Lauriebell82]

If you guys want to Debate then doso over PM. Arguing just ruins the thread for others trying to post. In response to some of the things that you cousin says, its not too late to change his line of thinking. When he grabs the fat in his stomach tell him to focus on excercising staying active and not how big his stomach is. When he makes comments about his gf being thinner then others then tell him to ephasize what a great person she is, inside and out. Not how much she weighs. You dont have to tell him that its okay to be fat, but teah him that everyone is different and to concentrate on the good in people. Like ask, "is she a nice person?" or "does she help people?" so completely take the focus off of weight or fat/thin and teach him to get to know the person despite what they look like. Then he wont get a complex one way or another. Weight and physical appearance will just be indifferent and irrelavant to him.

[Lauriebell82]

No amount of indoctrination will make a healthy male indifferent to weight and physical appearance.

 

Then why do men date/marry overweight and/or those with physical imperfections? (ie: female missing an arm or leg)

 

Maybe they see them for who they really are and not what they look like. Your comments remind me of the movie Shallow Hal.

[Lauriebell82]

Because there aren't enough hot women to go around, just because someone settles doesn't mean they think their partner is the hottest possible piece of ass on the planet.

 

Yikes, thats quite shallow. To each their own I guess.

[somedude81]

The issue is this: I don't want him to turn into you, Greznog, nor into anyone else who is obsessed with being thin and only associating with thin women.

Are you talking to your mom and her cousin about it?

 

Because right now, those are the people who are telling him that it's not OK to be fat and that skinny women are better.

I don't use negative body language about myself around him.

It's good that you don't put yourself down around him, as that would only reinforce that being overweight is a bad thing.

But what can we start doing? I've thought of discussing it with my cousin and my mom - they do need to alter their language. But at this point, is there anyway to counter this idea? To teach him that even though his friends at school may believe in that nonsense, he doesn't have to?

It might be worth it to talk to them about it, though I also think it may be difficult to train them out of putting themselves down.

[Els]

If you do broach the topic with him, OP, I would recommend doing it in a gender-neutral way. Not 'overweight women are beautiful', etc, but explain to him that the obsession with skinniness is harmful. That starts with telling him that he is perfectly fine as he is, when he comes to you again telling you that he needs to lose weight (since he is not actually overweight).

[Lauriebell82]

If you do broach the topic with him, OP, I would recommend doing it in a gender-neutral way. Not 'overweight women are beautiful', etc, but explain to him that the obsession with skinniness is harmful. That starts with telling him that he is perfectly fine as he is, when he comes to you again telling you that he needs to lose weight (since he is not actually overweight).

 

Yeah, a normalizing comment would work as well. My best friend is very skinny, yet she gets self conscious because she works as a coctail waitress with women who are virtually anorexic. Instead of telling her "you are not fat!" I said "I think that there will always be someone who is thinner or who you feel looks better then you." So I wasn't devaluing or making her feel bad, but at the same time I was letting her know that she is great the way she is and that it is normal to have feelings of inadequacy sometimes. That will show your cousin that he shouldn't feel bad or guilty for making comments like that, but to remember that there is always something that someone has that we don't. But it doesn't mean that you are any less of a person then they are.

 

I think that people are so hung up on being thin because they compare themselves to those that are. In the 1940's it was considered normal to be a little more filled out, but now it's considered overweight. I think if everyone was overweight, then nobody would be obsessed with being thin because there wouldn't be anything else to compare. The constant weight loss program commercials don't help either, it seems like every other commercial is some ad for Jenny Craig or Weight Watchers. No wonder everyone is obsessed with weight.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Lauriebell82

[strongnrelaxed]

Yikes, thats quite shallow. To each their own I guess.

 

I am not trying to side with anyone here, but how do you define the term "shallow"?

 

Being overweight is a combination of a lot of complicated things and we are learning more all the time. People should never bully or emotionally abuse others for their weight - or for just about any other reason.

 

But most healthy adults are attracted to other healthy adults - that means in mind body and spirit. Calling them shallow for being honest about this is not fair.

 

The overwhelming majority of cases of obesity are linked to lifestyle and diet choices. And those choices are informed by a whole host of factors, but primarily family habits. Families with bad eating habits and poor exercise etc are almost guaranteed to have this sort of problem. This in turn can lead to depression which continues the cycle.

 

I am sorry that you were raised in this sort of family. It is my strong feeling that you will need a complete change of scenery if you are going to make any progress.

 

Comments from family members or others are bad and needlessly hurtful, but you cannot change that. You can only change you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Accepting people as they are, and looking for the best in them is ALWAYS good.

 

Skinny people are NOT "better" than fat people. You may like looking at them more, but that doesn't make them "better." If a fat person has difficulty pushing themselves away from the table after eating enough, I bet that the skinny person has their own challenges (including all different manifestations of "lack of self discipline") that just aren't so easy to see and to judge by other people who are so inclined.

 

I am 100% A-okay with people only dating those who they find attractive - and if that means skinny people, then so be it. But marginalizing fat people and judging them for "lack of self discipline" because of what you see? Base.

[strongnrelaxed]

Accepting people as they are, and looking for the best in them is ALWAYS good.

 

Skinny people are NOT "better" than fat people. You may like looking at them more, but that doesn't make them "better." If a fat person has difficulty pushing themselves away from the table after eating enough, I bet that the skinny person has their own challenges (including all different manifestations of "lack of self discipline") that just aren't so easy to see and to judge by other people who are so inclined.

 

I am 100% A-okay with people only dating those who they find attractive - and if that means skinny people, then so be it. But marginalizing fat people and judging them for "lack of self discipline" because of what you see? Base.

 

Goodness no! I am not judging. Too often, candor and frank discussions sound bad. I get that a lot "arrogant" "judgmental" etc. But I do not advocate for judging people based on looks. That is not an honest assessment of my post if that is what you are referring to.

 

This may be a bad analogy, but I will try it. In Central Park in NY years ago there were a number of women who were groped, stripped, and even a rape (there may have been more than one). The women who were attacked were all dressed provocatively.

 

Now. Stop for a second and work with me. Attacks are evil and bad and unacceptable. We get that. Those young wild men need to be punished appropriately. Would you tell your daughter or niece or female cousin to walk around in Central Park during an event on a hot day with tens of thousands of out-of-control half drunk men running around? Would you advocate that they dress provocatively?

 

There are many ugly aspects of male and female behavior that need to change. But in the meantime, I come from the school of thought that says "stay out of Central Park" and "stay fit and healthy". Others come from the perspective of "those people are shallow and need to change not me" or "those men are evil and need to go to jail- I shouldn't be afraid to walk around dressed however I please"

 

The people who subscribe to that latter are quickly reminded of the sad and despicable side of human nature. I would argue that BOTH things need to change. But I stand by my post in saying that we can only change ourselves.

[Lauriebell82]

I am not trying to side with anyone here, but how do you define the term "shallow"?

 

Being overweight is a combination of a lot of complicated things and we are learning more all the time. People should never bully or emotionally abuse others for their weight - or for just about any other reason.

 

But most healthy adults are attracted to other healthy adults - that means in mind body and spirit. Calling them shallow for being honest about this is not fair.

 

The overwhelming majority of cases of obesity are linked to lifestyle and diet choices. And those choices are informed by a whole host of factors, but primarily family habits. Families with bad eating habits and poor exercise etc are almost guaranteed to have this sort of problem. This in turn can lead to depression which continues the cycle.

 

I am sorry that you were raised in this sort of family. It is my strong feeling that you will need a complete change of scenery if you are going to make any progress.

 

Comments from family members or others are bad and needlessly hurtful, but you cannot change that. You can only change you.

 

I think saying that there aren't enough hot people to go around therefore people have to settle for less is pretty shallow. That's not even about skinny vs fat, that's just a nasty comment in general.

[Els]

I am not trying to side with anyone here, but how do you define the term "shallow"?

 

Being overweight is a combination of a lot of complicated things and we are learning more all the time. People should never bully or emotionally abuse others for their weight - or for just about any other reason.

 

But most healthy adults are attracted to other healthy adults - that means in mind body and spirit. Calling them shallow for being honest about this is not fair.

 

The overwhelming majority of cases of obesity are linked to lifestyle and diet choices. And those choices are informed by a whole host of factors, but primarily family habits. Families with bad eating habits and poor exercise etc are almost guaranteed to have this sort of problem. This in turn can lead to depression which continues the cycle.

 

I am sorry that you were raised in this sort of family. It is my strong feeling that you will need a complete change of scenery if you are going to make any progress.

 

Comments from family members or others are bad and needlessly hurtful, but you cannot change that. You can only change you.

 

I think you took LB's quote way out of context. The poster whom she called shallow has a history of slinging a whole slew of insulting and derogatory comments at overweight women in particular (he has never uttered a peep against anyone of his own sex, no matter how morbidly obese the man).

 

There is being honest... and then there is being shallow.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Now. Stop for a second and work with me. Attacks are evil and bad and unacceptable. We get that. Those young wild men need to be punished appropriately. Would you tell your daughter or niece or female cousin to walk around in Central Park during an event on a hot day with tens of thousands of out-of-control half drunk men running around? Would you advocate that they dress provocatively?

 

There are many ugly aspects of male and female behavior that need to change. But in the meantime, I come from the school of thought that says "stay out of Central Park" and "stay fit and healthy". Others come from the perspective of "those people are shallow and need to change not me" or "those men are evil and need to go to jail- I shouldn't be afraid to walk around dressed however I please"

 

The people who subscribe to that latter are quickly reminded of the sad and despicable side of human nature. I would argue that BOTH things need to change. But I stand by my post in saying that we can only change ourselves.

 

So … are you saying that women who dress provocatively and get raped are somehow analogous to fat people???

 

I guess it's not possible for me to "work with you" because there is no way that makes sense for me.

 

Also, I categorically refuse to go near the idea that dressing a certain way "asks" for violence. Of course a lot of people do think that it does. As long as people (like you, evidently) who think that way hold sway, there will continue to be a specific aspect of repression of women.

 

It is certainly bad judgement to put oneself in harms way knowingly, but I would never, ever hold a person accountable for being a victim of violence because of the clothing they were wearing.

 

If women want to walk around in g-strings and pasties, and men want to walk around in ball gowns, I don't think that any kind of violence is an acceptable result of the fashion choices, no matter how dubious.

 

But how on Earth is this relating to being fat?

[Eclypse]

Personally I'm most concerned with his rudeness. Asking your other cousin if his girlfriend was chubby or skinny? Then boasting about his? Errr.... not on.

 

I don't make comments on the people my friends and relatives choose to date, whether I do or don't find them attractive.

 

However, I do have opinions on the whole "fat acceptance" issue. People should not be shamed for what they look like, as that will just cause them to regress into a shell and not get better. But it absolutely should not be promoted that being overweight or obese is "healthy" or "normal". It absolutely is not. The health risks are severe, not to mention your quality of life is severely reduced. It's this sort of thinking that's led to more than 1/3 Americans being OBESE (not just overweight). Amazingly, some are predicting that this generation will be the first in a very long time (possibly ever) that will have a shorter lifespan than their parents. A few times I let myself go by about 10-15 pounds and I felt horrible. I felt sluggish and slow, I couldn't run out basketball games (and let my team down) not to mention a general feeling of malaise and feeling disgusting when I wore tight fitting clothes. I can't imagine how obese people feel. It's just not pleasant.

 

You should teach your cousin the importance of a good diet, and encourage exercise. Signing him up for athletics or football or basketball while young would be the best thing to do to promote this for the rest of his life. He needs to know that fat people are not to be shamed, and that just because they are overweight doesn't mean they can't be good people, but he should endeavour to not become overweight.

[DaisyLeigh1967]

I have known some mentally ill thin people and mentally ill fat people. Very ill thin people and ill fat people.

 

Being overweight is not healthy. It is not attractive. I mean morbidly obese, not just a little overweight. Being skeleton thin is not attractive or healthy either.

 

I am overweight, have lost 50 lbs and trying to lose more. I know both sides of the fence on this issue and I want back on the other side. I will get there. I am motivated and I have support from my husband and other loved ones and friend.

 

To make open comments about another person's appearance, regardless of truth or not, is just cruel, rude, and utterly without an ounce of class.

Edited September 15, 2012 by DaisyLeigh1967