My Story... Going to be LONG...

[AnotherRound]

I typed all of this out the other day, and then hit some random button and it disappeared. So, got my coffee, and here goes try #2...

 

I began seeing exMM in 2004. We met through mutual friends, and I had no idea that he was M, as I was new to the area. Mutual friends did know, and did not tell me. Their explanation later was that they thought he and I would be "good" together, and they thought he needed to get out of his M. Don't worry, I gave them hell for not giving me a heads up, as they all knew that I would not pursue or become involved with a M man. Anyway, I did, and found out 3 weeks later that he was M. I made a decision at that time, I struggled back and forth, but eventually, decided to go on with it. I own that 100%. ExMM's explanation for it? "You wouldn't have had anything to do with me if you had known, and I knew that we would click." And again, don't worry, I gave him hell for that too. I hate making decisions when I don't have all the information that I need. But, that's all water under the bridge now.

 

So, we did hit it off. I was a former BW. Married young, and divorce was finalized in 2001. ExH and I tried to reconcile for 2 years, didn't work, we just weren't right for each other, no matter how much we loved one another, eh, it happens. So, I had been free and clear for about a year. I had moved 600 miles away from everything I had known and was enjoying the single life while attending graduate school. I was dating, but just not finding anyone that I really wanted to spend time with... until ExMM.

 

So, we meet, and everything is fantastic. We are very honest with one another (after I confront him with being married), and the relationship lasts for the next 7 years. I did try to end it, many times. Not bc I didn't love exMM, or any "major" issues in our relationship, but mostly bc I became frustrated with him and his W and their apparent inability to handle their own business. W knew about me from the get go. She knew my name, where I lived, etc. She stalked me a little, but never confronted me. I always told MM, I will NOT lie to her, but since he wasn't lying to her either, it didn't really matter. She obviously chose to not handle it, which is kind of how she lives her entire life. I don't understand it bc I'm not that girl, but hey, it takes all kinds.

 

So, we go on for 7 years, with me occasionally breaking it off to date SGs. He didn't like that part of it, but he knew he couldn't say much. And, although I loved him, I'm not new, and I knew that I deserved a chance at a relationship that wasn't an A. I really did give them an honest effort, but I live in an area that is FAR more conservative than I am and it's really difficult to find someone here with my same beliefs and views, not to mention finding someone that I'm actually attracted to.

 

In April of 2011, I decided to end the relationship with exMM. I still loved him, very much so, but I was done with the A. I was tired of being the band aid for he and his W so that they could continue to live in their fantasy world. I was tired of sacrificing things that I wanted in a relationship so that they could carry on as a 2 income family in an ostentatious house. So, I ended it. ExMM begged for 4 months. He tried to change things, he promised me all kinds of things (not divorce bc he was terrified of that). But, when I'm done, I'm just done. They had plenty of time in 7 years to sort their business and they didn't. I'm a person who confronts life head on, and I was exhausted with their inability to do the same.

 

So, I give myself some time to heal, and then begin to date. All SGs, no more MM for me, ever. What I had with exMM was a one time thing, and not something I was looking for in life. ExMM then entered into what I think was an exit affair for him. With me taking away the band aid that was literally holding their marriage together, they quickly fell apart. ExMm began to see another OW, who went into the R knowing that he was M. However, she was quickly not content and began to show up at his familial home, his workplace, and began to have tantrums in his street with all the neighbors watching. At this point, ExMMs wife was (imo) FORCED to handle these issues. W wasn't surprised, or mad. She knew that he and I had broken up as they had a really rough patch while he tried to handle his grief about me ending the A. I was the balm that was no longer there, and they were forced to face one another in a very real way.

 

So, W decides that she can no longer ignore the issues in their M, and files for D. ExMM moves out. He is still in contact with me occasionally (we do run into each other somewhat frequently, small town and all), but now, we are talking and nothing else. Mostly, I am providing him counseling. I am far enough removed from the situation at this point, a year and a half later, that it's fine with me. Although I do continue on with my own life, dating, working, etc. At this point, it's nothing more to me than talking to an old friend who is having a difficult time. ExMM decides that he wants to reconcile with his family. He doesn't want to give up seeing his child daily, or his home (his dream house according to him), the years that they have been together. However, he and W both have become aware that they are obviously not a good fit. Wife is not a communicator. She is the girl who just looks the other way, and he becomes quickly frustrated with this bc obviously, a reconciliation of any type is going to take a LOT of communicating about issues. She refuses, and continues to be the person that she has always been, obviously. (Not saying it's all her fault, but honestly, they are about as wrongly matched as my exH and I were... not that we didn't love each other, but it just happens sometimes).

 

So, ExMM contacts me and wants to talk. He states that he has tried to reconcile for the sake of his family (him, W, and children), but that he realizes that W is never going to be the type of person he wants in a R. He states that he was willing to try to make it work bc he felt guilty for the A, and not really putting his energy into the M bc he was so frustrated. He states that he now feels that he has given it an honest effort and it's just not going to work bc he and W both want the other to be someone that they just aren't. He now wants to focus on being happy, on finding peace in his life. He now feels like he can walk away knowing that he honestly tried and it just didn't work.

 

Where do I come in? Well, he wants to know if I would be willing to try to see if he and I can have a relationship. Without it being an A. I am caught completely off guard. Not bc I ever doubted his feelings for me, or me for him, I didn't. But I learned long ago, love only goes so far, and is truly only one piece of making a relationship work. He doesn't want to rush, he wants to make good decisions for himself and his child. He has always had feelings for me, and has always believed that he and I could have had one of those rare relationships if it had been under different circumstances.

 

I have healed. I have gotten past him. Not that I ever stopped loving him, that's now how I work. But, I had gotten to the point that it didn't hurt anymore to hear of him with someone else. That I was comfortable in knowing that he loved me but that we just couldn't be together bc he wanted to try to make good on his M. I would talk to him about his feelings, his thoughts, and I had the luxury of being removed from it emotionally. We were able to maintain our friendship, the basis of our understanding of one another, and it didn't hurt.

 

So now, I'm just here trying to read, and gain insight. I know what my heart wants to do, no problem. But I also remember that love is just one tiny piece of that puzzle. Is it enough for he and I at this point? I have no idea. Am I willing to get reinvolved emotionally with him? I'm not sure. I love him, absolutely. I wish him well in life, and I want him to be happy. But, am I willing to give this a try? I'm not sure. He has been wise, and has been focusing on his M, and getting his head straight. He is now, imo, out of the fog. He is seeing things more clearly now, as is his W it appears. There is no shame, imo, of realizing that you married the wrong person. Or, in trying to find happiness once you realize this.

 

I'm not saying I'm the right person, there are more than one right persons in this life for everyone. But, I am probably a good chance at being one of those people for him and he for me. I have missed him. I do love him. I'm just not sure that I'm willing to reinvest at this time. It's been nice, this single life of no responsibility to anyone else. Of living my life for me alone. Of making decisions based on only me.

 

So, I'm not even sure what I'm looking for on this board. I'm just looking at all angles I guess, analyzing. And, giving myself somewhere to vent about it all. I like to make my decisions with a LOT of information. I'm now gaining that information... from here, and from exMM too. The other night we talked for 4 hours. We talked about everything... Us, him, me, his M, the reconciliation efforts, the other OW after me, where his head is, where his feelings are... everything. He isn't pressuring me for answers, he knows that we have a LOT of communicating to do before anything is decided. Good thing is, we are both communicators. We are both analytic people who like to have all the info, and that's what we are doing now I guess. Gathering intel.

 

So, I was initially feeling pretty confused. Now, I'm just feeling like I can't make any kind of decision as of yet, bc I need more info. Some of that info will be seeing how he handles all of these issues while they finalize their divorce. I do, however, believe that no matter what happens with he and I that he and his W will be SO much happier once this is all over. And I think that they both deserve that. I don't think anyone deserves to have to be in a LT relationship with someone that they aren't happy with simply because at one point they thought that they could make it. These things happen, it's nobody's fault.

 

So, that's my long story. Thought I'd give some background to everyone. So, I'm not the OW anymore (at least I don't think so?), and I won't be ever again. But I was hoping to find someone else that was maybe in a similar situation in that I might gain some insight. Thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to interacting on the boards!

[AnotherRound]

LadyGrey... Those are all good points. He did leave the home, and is living separately since the D was filed. He has been living on his own since February of this year. They do see each other at functions for their child, and it really has been pretty amicable, as they are both just exhausted with it all I think.

 

He isn't telling me that he wants to come over and move in with me and get married. He is asking me to consider trying to have a relationship with him once he gets his D resolved.

 

As for not talking to him during all this, you're probably right. I guess though, that underneath our relationship we have always had this great friendship. We get each other and we have always talked very openly about everything. The OW after me, I think honestly, was an exit affair for him. I think he purposely picked someone that was unstable bc he wanted her to do the dirty work. No, I don't admire him for that, but like I said, he's only human. Divorce is scary and it's a huge change and he was so worried of everything that he would lose... especially seeing his child every day. That's why he attempted to reconcile all this time. He and his W both know that they have been nothing more than roommates for a long time, but at least they tried for the sake of their child and their marriage to sort it out. But, it didn't work.

 

He is depending on me emotionally, but he always has. That's why I say that I held their marriage together, I really did. I knew that when I left him it wouldn't be long before they were forced to deal with one another since I was no longer there providing him a place to vent, to get support, to get emotional validation. I had no plans of being involved with them any further back when I ended it. I have also depended on him emotionally, I mean, that's a big part of any relationship (or should be, imo).

 

You do have valid points, and I've thought of them all. I do appreciate the concern and the feedback. Thank you! I'm interested in hearing what others have to say about the situation. I am a very analytical person and I am studying this from ALL angles before I do anything.

[Artie Lang]

first off, i hope you're not still "friends" with those that duped you into starting an affair. they're not considered friends, in my book.

 

Second, this guy sounds like a serial cheater to me. he knows his wife turns a blind eye to his shenanigans.

 

lastly, you say you've moved on, so why not cut this toxic person from your life once and for all?

 

do yourself a favor-- start anew.

 

 

just my 2 cents.

Edited September 9, 2012 by Artie Lang

[AnotherRound]

Good points. No, I'm not friends with those people any longer, but not bc of that. Like I said, I don't hold it against people when they are human, as I am human too and don't always do the "right" thing bc I'm not always sure what that is.

 

As for him, he has been a serial cheater through this marriage. I honestly believe that sometimes, people just marry the wrong people. I did, and I still didn't want to get divorced. We had no children together, and only a house to split, but I saw it as a failure, as if it reflected on my inability to make a good choice or a good decision. Looking back now, the best thing we ever did was get divorced and move on from each other, despite loving one another, it would have NEVER worked. We just didn't have anything stopping us from divorcing, like children, or decades of being married, so it wasn't that hard of a decision for us. I was a BW, and I realized that he cheated bc he was never going to be happy with me. Not a reflection on me, and not that I condoned what he did, but I could see why he did it. I was just as unhappy, just not cheating. But, the cheating was the catalyst I needed to get out of something that was making me (and him!) miserable.

 

Some people just need that kind of issue to leave something that they already know is broken. I think exMM, instead of handling his business, was taking the easy way (not really easy, but easier than D in his mind I guess) out by getting his needs met outside of the M. Again, I don't condone it, but I see why he did. When you agree to marry someone, sometimes after the vows they throw dealbreakers at you. What do you do then? Just live your one life miserably? I don't buy into that, at all. I wouldn't expect someone to do that for me, nor would I do it for them.

 

Life is too short and too hard to live miserably, imo. We all have the right to happiness, and a partner that we click with in all ways. Should he have had the balls to D? Yes. But so should his Wife. They are both guilty, imo, of not facing the inevitable when it knocked on their door all those years ago. And now, they are in the process of D, he is moved out, and I think that they are both realizing that they really should have done this years ago. Even if he and I don't end up together, I truly hope that they both go on to find happiness in their lives. Partners that they are truly compatible with. Not only for themselves, but so that their child can see what a relationship is supposed to look like. A real, honest, loving relationship... not the facade they have had for years.

 

What he and I did was wrong in society's eyes, I get that. But in life, sometimes, many times, things just aren't so cut and dry. Sometimes, we have to go through some dysfunction in order to see what functioning is. And here we are.

 

I will take this slowly, and read his actions along with his words. He has never, as far as I'm aware, not been honest with me re where he is with his feelings and thoughts. He is very open with me, and I'm strong enough to hear things that I don't like necessarily, but knowing that he is human and struggling, and that helps me a lot. It helps me decide if I want to go there or not. I think he is a good man in a lot of ways who has been afraid to do what was "right" for him and his family. Fear is something we all experience and let determine our behaviors at times.

[Artie Lang]

i totally get what you're sayin', but to call him a "good" man, all the while he has been cheating all these years is quite a stretch.

 

sorry, but i don't see any good in that.

[AnotherRound]

I just happen to be someone that doesn't believe that a bad decision, or bad behavior, or making mistakes makes someone a "bad" person. And I'm sure glad that I have people in my life who are like minded bc if any time I made a mistake they wrote me off as "bad", then, I would be very lonely.

 

I have a career that allows me insight into behaviors, and there is a LOT of gray. I wish I was a person who sees the world in black and white bc it would be a LOT easier to navigate if I just "knew" what the answers were in every situation, and could still sit high and mighty at the end of the day that I was a better person than others. (not aimed at you, just my response to what you said, not saying you do this.)

 

Anyway, like I said, I appreciate the feedback and perspectives on my posts, so thank you for that. I know that in the end this is a decision that I have to make for myself, and I will. Just wanted to share my story, thanks for reading and responding.

[truthbetold]

Wow you weren't kidding about your long story!

 

Okay, so I totally get you bc I'm verrrrrry analytical too! The thing is, that works great professionally but not so much romantically! What I've learned is if something causes you confusion (romantically) it isn't right.

 

The fact that he lied about his marital status should be upfront and foremost. Regardless what he now says. Because even if he takes the steps to go to counseling to figure out why in his conflict avoidant style he chose to cheat insead of face the probelm and tell her he wanted a divorce (since you said she buried her head in the sand I'm just cutting to the chase) You still have a huge problem in his character flaw. And NO, it's not just people being people or him just being "human" if you think that, then own that it's you justifying bad behavior.

 

Oh I get it, I used to do that much with guys I dated. Wasn't until a death in my family brought everything into perspective. Then I didnt' care so much about twisting myself into what someone wanted. You are on the right tract about being happy with yourself. THAT is key to the happiness, it comes from within not from external things or people.

 

So it wasn't until I was ready to be happy on my own that I got it. I truly didn't give a crap if I met anyone or not. I had a high list of standards and a guy met that or didn't. If they didn't "NEXT" if I had to question them...NEXT. If I didnt' feel th chemistry "NEXT" it seriously became that simple and freeing for me. And that's when I met "him". Been happily married for years now, but it wasn't until I took blinders off and stopped excusing bad behavior and thinking "maybe things are meant to be that's why it's so hard right now " thinking.

 

I would seriously look at this as not meant to be. Maybe he'll kick himself for not handling things more honestly but that's the price he pays. He shouldn't be able to have done all the things he's done, then have you at the end, it just doesn't seem right for him to cause all this pain and harm and still go off happy in the end with no regard to life lessons and how people should be treated. You know, the do unto to others...?

[AnotherRound]

And yes, it was long, wasn't it? lol It's really hard to put 7 years of that level of involvement into words in a coherent way so that there is an accurate picture of what has gone on. (I could still write pages and pages, I guess it's a good thing I type fast! lol)

 

LFH... that is exactly where I am right now. Spent some time tonight discussing the situation with my best friend, and she is really, really guarded about the whole thing. She does not like exMM, and makes no attempt at hiding that, although she does attempt to be fair for my sake. But, she has watched me struggle with the relationship and his behaviors over the years, and is understandably nervous about him being in my life at all. Especially since I have FINALLY gotten to a place where I can walk away and be healthy and productive (that took a while after I ended it).

 

I've made the list, pros and cons. It looks like any list I would make for anyone. Nothing that he has done to me is a dealbreaker, not even the fact that he cheated on his STBxW. But hell, I forgive my exH for cheating on ME... lol. I understand why he did it (exMM and my exH), and it's just not a dealbreaker as they both admitted it was wrong to do, and in hindsight, should have handled it differently. I am not a really forgiving person, but even I can't pretend like I can't understand why someone would do this. In other words, since it happened to me, I realize it isn't the end of the world.

 

Anyway, talking to my best friend and I said the exact same thing to her. I have always thought that he and I could have a great relationship, under different circumstances. I do love him, always have. And that's something I don't fall into quickly or easily. I have loved 3 men in my life, exMM being one of them. I've dated... well, many more than 3, lol.

 

So, I think I've gotten to the point where I'm thinking that I will give him a chance. Once the D is final, and we can actually be in the open with our relationship. Because if I don't, I think I will always wonder. If I do and it works out, great. If I do and it doesn't work out? Well then, I will know, and I am confident that I could walk away with no regrets and move on in my life.

 

I think the biggest difference would be that his STBxW and I are night and day different. I would never refuse to communicate about an issue we were having. I am a person who confronts things head on and lets the chips fall where they may, reanalyzes, and goes from there. I'm not afraid of fallout, or change, or having to move on if need be. I am content single, and if a relationship doesn't offer me what I want and need, I won't be in it, simple as that.

 

He and I have a lot of history together, and that's not easily forgotten. We are just talking now, and it will stay that way until he gets the D settled and can be free and clear. If we have trust issues, I won't remain in the relationship, that's a dealbreaker for me, and he is well aware of that. I think he's in a good place, and I know that we love each other. The worst that can happen? He could "break my heart" I guess, but honestly, I'm pretty immune to that anymore, and I've been through enough that I can get through a breakup, no problem.

 

Thanks again for the feedback. It's interesting to see what others think about the situation. I will try to keep you updated on the situation, if you're interested.

[2sure]

After 7 years of being the band aid on his marriage...why would you go back to the same thing?? WHats different now except that you have gained some sense of a life of your own withouth the two of them dictating the terms of it?

[AnotherRound]

I guess I'm confused by your question. He is in the process of D, he is living on his own, and he will be single. That's a LOT different than how it was. I always had a sense of my own life, I've accomplished a lot personally in those 7 years outside of he and I.

 

I guess I don't understand your questions? I didn't end the relationship bc he was abusive, or treating me badly, or whatever. I ended it bc I wanted to get out of the way so that he and his W would handle their business. I just didn't want any part of that anymore, so, I got out.

 

Maybe clarify what you are asking me?

[2sure]

I didnt realize he had left and was In the process of divorce. If that's the case, great, then you only want to make sure of things for yourself. If he seems like a man who just cannot be alone, youmight want to step away so that you both know he can be. In any case at all...youve waited this long, wait until the divorce is final and done so that you can both go in clean .

[AnotherRound]

Thanks. They have been separated since early February of this year, and since then, he has been living on his own. She made him leave the house, as she wants to keep it in the D. Since then, they have tried to reconcile, or at least he has, but she still refuses to communicate.

 

I don't think he is avoidant, at least he isn't with me. Because when he brings up something with me, I don't refuse to communicate about it. I think he has tried so many times to communicate with his STBxW about their issues, and she just doesn't know how to talk about things, so she just shuts it down. The affair was avoidant, in that he could have just D'd her, but I think there are a lot of factors he weighed in with that, not just he and W. Their home, their child, their grandchildren, their 20+ years together, their families, they have a business together. A lot of stuff to think about, so he did avoid the D.

 

He is now to the point where he believes he has given it an honest effort. He has tried to communicate with her, and she still refuses to get into anything "heavy". She doesn't mind being married to him I don't think, she just doesn't want to deal with any of the issues, she liked it the way it was in some ways. She was unhappy too, but I think she wasn't unhappy enough until other OW showed up and then her family and neighbors knew what was going on. Almost like once other people knew, she HAD to do something.

 

Anyway, who knows how it will work out. She may change her mind once he stops trying to reconcile with her and decide that she wants to remain married? I don't know what he would do if that happened. He seems finished with the whole thing, but again, there are a LOT of factors for him to consider. I'm keeping my distance, continuing on with my life and work, and I will continue to be an ear when he needs one, but nothing more at this point. If it gets to be too much for me, I will discontinue that too, but so far, I'm fine with it. It doesn't mess with my life or my emotions, so, no harm for now.

 

I really wish that things had been different for he and I and for him and her. But, this is where it is, and it just is what it is. Now? I just want everyone to find happiness and peace, no matter how the chips all fall. If they can be happy together, then more power to them. I doubt it, but that's just my opinion from what I know (of her too, we have mutual friends). If they can't be happy together? He and I may not be able to be happy together with an out in the open relationship, we've never had that. So, who knows? Again, just taking it as it comes and seeing where the chips fall.

[eleanorrigby]

She may change her mind once he stops trying to reconcile with her and decide that she wants to remain married?

 

So is he getting a divorce or trying to reconcile?

[veryhappy]

After 7 years she knows something about her, so she can have an opinion. 7 years is a very long time.

 

AR, don't you resent him for the length of the affair? He just dragged it out for 7 years, until you said enough, and then he didn't get out, he found a crazy woman who pushed the wife to kick him out. Don't you resent him? What did he do, besides finding other women? You ended the affair, the wife filed for divorce. Where's his part?

 

I'd say wait until the D is final (especiallyw ith him trying to reconcile), and then make a decision. Right now he seems to be shopping around. Get a bid from the M, get a bid from you, see where he can land.

 

The biggest problems I see are the length of the affair and his passivity. Didn't you want kids during this time?

[Silly_Girl]

Hi AR, in terms of general life outlook, perception of people's behaviours etc a lot of what you say resonates with me, so no judgements here.

 

The one big red flag as I see it is your guy's inability to be proactive and make change and be emotionally independent. I don't think you should be his sounding board/counsellor/friend. I think you are his emotional crutch, so to speak. I think entering a full-blown relationship on that basis means a foundation where you're always the growed-up, and he... well, he's not.

 

If I could write the script from here, truthfully, I think I'd have a 6month hiatus from one another. Total no contact. Have a date that you'll telephone him and let him navigate this for himself under his own steam. If he needs IC, fine, but let him do it by himself, for himself. I think - given how ambivalent you seemed initially in your posts - that non-contact period would be good for you too. To think about what you want/need from any new relationship. So that when you guys start afresh it isn't about resurrecting something old, it's about starting something new with a clear head and open eyes.

[Artie Lang]

I just happen to be someone that doesn't believe that a bad decision, or bad behavior, or making mistakes makes someone a "bad" person.

 

you said it- a bad decision.....meaning "one." this man continued cheating on his wife, with another woman, after you finished with him. correct?

 

how is that any good?

Edited September 9, 2012 by Artie Lang

[alexandria35]

I typed all of this out the other day, and then hit some random button and it disappeared. So, got my coffee, and here goes try #2...

 

I began seeing exMM in 2004. We met through mutual friends, and I had no idea that he was M, as I was new to the area. Mutual friends did know, and did not tell me. Their explanation later was that they thought he and I would be "good" together, and they thought he needed to get out of his M. Don't worry, I gave them hell for not giving me a heads up, as they all knew that I would not pursue or become involved with a M man. Anyway, I did, and found out 3 weeks later that he was M. I made a decision at that time, I struggled back and forth, but eventually, decided to go on with it. I own that 100%. ExMM's explanation for it? "You wouldn't have had anything to do with me if you had known, and I knew that we would click." And again, don't worry, I gave him hell for that too. I hate making decisions when I don't have all the information that I need. But, that's all water under the bridge now.

 

"you are judged by the company you keep" "birds of a feather, flock together"

just a couple of cliches that came to mind while reading this. Cliches become cliches because people find there is truth to them over and over again. MM and his friends decided to manipulate and deceive you into an affair. Sounds like he and his friends have similar character. Still you found out just 3 weeks in which should have been early enough for you to get out.

 

 

 

So, we did hit it off. I was a former BW. Married young, and divorce was finalized in 2001. ExH and I tried to reconcile for 2 years, didn't work, we just weren't right for each other, no matter how much we loved one another, eh, it happens. So, I had been free and clear for about a year. I had moved 600 miles away from everything I had known and was enjoying the single life while attending graduate school. I was dating, but just not finding anyone that I really wanted to spend time with... until ExMM.

 

So, we meet, and everything is fantastic. We are very honest with one another (after I confront him with being married), and the relationship lasts for the next 7 years. I did try to end it, many times. Not bc I didn't love exMM, or any "major" issues in our relationship, but mostly bc I became frustrated with him and his W and their apparent inability to handle their own business. W knew about me from the get go. She knew my name, where I lived, etc. She stalked me a little, but never confronted me. I always told MM, I will NOT lie to her, but since he wasn't lying to her either, it didn't really matter. She obviously chose to not handle it, which is kind of how she lives her entire life. I don't understand it bc I'm not that girl, but hey, it takes all kinds.

 

So, we go on for 7 years, with me occasionally breaking it off to date SGs. He didn't like that part of it, but he knew he couldn't say much. And, although I loved him, I'm not new, and I knew that I deserved a chance at a relationship that wasn't an A. I really did give them an honest effort, but I live in an area that is FAR more conservative than I am and it's really difficult to find someone here with my same beliefs and views, not to mention finding someone that I'm actually attracted to.

 

In April of 2011, I decided to end the relationship with exMM. I still loved him, very much so, but I was done with the A. I was tired of being the band aid for he and his W so that they could continue to live in their fantasy world. I was tired of sacrificing things that I wanted in a relationship so that they could carry on as a 2 income family in an ostentatious house. So, I ended it. ExMM begged for 4 months. He tried to change things, he promised me all kinds of things (not divorce bc he was terrified of that). But, when I'm done, I'm just done. They had plenty of time in 7 years to sort their business and they didn't. I'm a person who confronts life head on, and I was exhausted with their inability to do the same.

 

Really? You're a person who confronts life head on? How so? You languished in this affair for seven years. His wife turned a blind eye to his cheating (so he says) while you spent 7 years turning a blind eye to his marriage. Oh I'm sure you had meltdowns and breakups but for the most part you weren't handling things anymore then his wife was. Your last sentence makes me chuckle because you sound so indignant that they didn't resolve their marriage to suit your favored outcome. "hmph....I've given this married couple 7 years to make me happy and they didn't and now I'm pissed"

 

So, I give myself some time to heal, and then begin to date. All SGs, no more MM for me, ever. What I had with exMM was a one time thing, and not something I was looking for in life. ExMM then entered into what I think was an exit affair for him. With me taking away the band aid that was literally holding their marriage together, they quickly fell apart. ExMm began to see another OW, who went into the R knowing that he was M. However, she was quickly not content and began to show up at his familial home, his workplace, and began to have tantrums in his street with all the neighbors watching. At this point, ExMMs wife was (imo) FORCED to handle these issues. W wasn't surprised, or mad. She knew that he and I had broken up as they had a really rough patch while he tried to handle his grief about me ending the A. I was the balm that was no longer there, and they were forced to face one another in a very real way.

 

So, W decides that she can no longer ignore the issues in their M, and files for D. ExMM moves out. He is still in contact with me occasionally (we do run into each other somewhat frequently, small town and all), but now, we are talking and nothing else. Mostly, I am providing him counseling. I am far enough removed from the situation at this point, a year and a half later, that it's fine with me. Although I do continue on with my own life, dating, working, etc. At this point, it's nothing more to me than talking to an old friend who is having a difficult time. ExMM decides that he wants to reconcile with his family. He doesn't want to give up seeing his child daily, or his home (his dream house according to him), the years that they have been together. However, he and W both have become aware that they are obviously not a good fit. Wife is not a communicator. She is the girl who just looks the other way, and he becomes quickly frustrated with this bc obviously, a reconciliation of any type is going to take a LOT of communicating about issues. She refuses, and continues to be the person that she has always been, obviously. (Not saying it's all her fault, but honestly, they are about as wrongly matched as my exH and I were... not that we didn't love each other, but it just happens sometimes).

 

Doesn't sound to me like she's the girl who just looks the other way. She kicked his ass out

 

So, ExMM contacts me and wants to talk. He states that he has tried to reconcile for the sake of his family (him, W, and children), but that he realizes that W is never going to be the type of person he wants in a R. He states that he was willing to try to make it work bc he felt guilty for the A, and not really putting his energy into the M bc he was so frustrated. He states that he now feels that he has given it an honest effort and it's just not going to work bc he and W both want the other to be someone that they just aren't. He now wants to focus on being happy, on finding peace in his life. He now feels like he can walk away knowing that he honestly tried and it just didn't work.

 

When exactly did he try? Sounds to me like he just kept right on cheating for the entire marriage.

 

Where do I come in? Well, he wants to know if I would be willing to try to see if he and I can have a relationship. Without it being an A. I am caught completely off guard. Not bc I ever doubted his feelings for me, or me for him, I didn't. But I learned long ago, love only goes so far, and is truly only one piece of making a relationship work. He doesn't want to rush, he wants to make good decisions for himself and his child. He has always had feelings for me, and has always believed that he and I could have had one of those rare relationships if it had been under different circumstances.

 

I have healed. I have gotten past him. Not that I ever stopped loving him, that's now how I work. But, I had gotten to the point that it didn't hurt anymore to hear of him with someone else. That I was comfortable in knowing that he loved me but that we just couldn't be together bc he wanted to try to make good on his M. I would talk to him about his feelings, his thoughts, and I had the luxury of being removed from it emotionally. We were able to maintain our friendship, the basis of our understanding of one another, and it didn't hurt.

 

So now, I'm just here trying to read, and gain insight. I know what my heart wants to do, no problem. But I also remember that love is just one tiny piece of that puzzle. Is it enough for he and I at this point? I have no idea. Am I willing to get reinvolved emotionally with him? I'm not sure. I love him, absolutely. I wish him well in life, and I want him to be happy. But, am I willing to give this a try? I'm not sure. He has been wise, and has been focusing on his M, and getting his head straight. He is now, imo, out of the fog. He is seeing things more clearly now, as is his W it appears. There is no shame, imo, of realizing that you married the wrong person. Or, in trying to find happiness once you realize this.

 

I'm not saying I'm the right person, there are more than one right persons in this life for everyone. But, I am probably a good chance at being one of those people for him and he for me. I have missed him. I do love him. I'm just not sure that I'm willing to reinvest at this time. It's been nice, this single life of no responsibility to anyone else. Of living my life for me alone. Of making decisions based on only me.

 

He is a serial cheater. I know you blame his wife for that but please look at your logic. Would you blame his wife if he were an alcholic? a physical abuser? a drug addict? His cheating, and inability to honor his commitments or end them, lives inside of him. His wife didn't make him do anything. I think the chances of this man being faithful to anyone is slim to none.

 

So, I'm not even sure what I'm looking for on this board. I'm just looking at all angles I guess, analyzing. And, giving myself somewhere to vent about it all. I like to make my decisions with a LOT of information. I'm now gaining that information... from here, and from exMM too. The other night we talked for 4 hours. We talked about everything... Us, him, me, his M, the reconciliation efforts, the other OW after me, where his head is, where his feelings are... everything. He isn't pressuring me for answers, he knows that we have a LOT of communicating to do before anything is decided. Good thing is, we are both communicators. We are both analytic people who like to have all the info, and that's what we are doing now I guess. Gathering intel.

 

So, I was initially feeling pretty confused. Now, I'm just feeling like I can't make any kind of decision as of yet, bc I need more info. Some of that info will be seeing how he handles all of these issues while they finalize their divorce. I do, however, believe that no matter what happens with he and I that he and his W will be SO much happier once this is all over. And I think that they both deserve that. I don't think anyone deserves to have to be in a LT relationship with someone that they aren't happy with simply because at one point they thought that they could make it. These things happen, it's nobody's fault.

 

So, that's my long story. Thought I'd give some background to everyone. So, I'm not the OW anymore (at least I don't think so?), and I won't be ever again. But I was hoping to find someone else that was maybe in a similar situation in that I might gain some insight. Thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to interacting on the boards!

 

Okay so his wife got tired of his lying cheating ass and booted him out the door. Since that time he has been trying to beg himself back home but his wife has stood strong and refused to take him back. It has started to sink in for him that his wife is most likely never going to take him back and as man who feels entitled to lots of female attention and who is afraid to be alone he has decided to see if you will fill the wife's shoes. She has vacated her position and he wants you take over her spot so he can get back to womanizing cheating ways while feeling secure that there is also someone at home to take care of his needs. Lucky you

Edited September 9, 2012 by alexandria35
spelling

[LaCurieuse]

I doubt you'll find the judgmental posts to be of much help; I certainly don't.

 

I just think you need to be careful about getting locked into a crutch/nurse/counselor/caretaker role for him. I don't think you'll find that role very gratifying in the long-term.

[Fitz]

After 7 years she knows something about her, so she can have an opinion. 7 years is a very long time.

 

Unless OP is having frank and direct conversation with STBXW, then OP can't know her at all. So what good is a prejudiced opinion? Otherwise, watching TV interviews and collecting magazines would make me best friends Halle Berry ...and the tears I see in the mirror every morning prove that isn't true either...

 

Intimacy (whether real or imagined) in an affair can be confusing this way. Sharing bodily fluids with someone else's husband, then hearing MM's (accurate or inaccurate) psychoanalysis about his BW, hearing about her habits, hearing about her quirks, her shortcomings, witnessing secrets of her life from afar -all these intimate details certainly can create the feeling of knowing someone. But without frank open conversation, OP doesn't know the STBXW anymore than she really knows Robert Pattinson or Hilary Rodham Clinton.

 

The other problem is bias. The OP can't truly evaluate STBXW because the OP can never be objective. Accordingly, asking a mistress for her honest opinion of a BW is like asking Mitt Romney for an honest opinion of Barrack Obama (or vice versa). Mitt, Barrack, and every mistress will always think they're being objective in evaluating their opponents. But by their nature, they cannot be objective! No matter what they say, it will always boil down to a belief that "I'm better a fit than they are." Well, unless their self esteem really hits rock bottom...

 

You simply can't be objective when your own investment is at stake. Accordingly, if your evaluation of a situation can't be 100% objective then neither can it (nor will it ever) be 100% logical. Because it is inherently rooted in bias. And by its very nature, bias is illogical. In such circumstances (two people nibbling away at the fruit of an affair) aspersions are both easily sold and happily bought.

 

In other words, convincing your mistress that your wife is the inferior woman is about as easy as convincing fish to swim & bluebirds to fly.

 

So how much weight can the mistresses opinion of the wife really hold? Particularly, when the two women are isolated from each other and (whether intentionally or not) kept from having open dialogue with one another?

 

Maybe STBXW is coo coo for cocoa puffs. Maybe not. Either way, let's not pretend to know the mind/goals/feelings of the STBXW. Let's not feign objectivity or lay claim to logical superiority. Particularly if the OP has never broached frank, open, and mature dialogue with the STBXW in the 7 (seven!) long years since OP entered this drawn-out affair (despite contrary claims of "confronting life head on").

Edited September 9, 2012 by Fitz

[AnotherRound]

So is he getting a divorce or trying to reconcile?

 

She filed in February, he moved out, and they have been trying to reconcile since then. He has recently decided that his original issues with her still remain, she refuses to communicate about anything beyond surface level. She wants to remain married, but she doesn't want to talk about any of the issues. He believes that will land them right back where they were. He is now done trying to reconcile. She isn't sure. He wants to get the D done, she refuses to move forward on it at this point, bc it entails discussing deeper issues such as parenting issues, child support, etc.

[AnotherRound]

You probably aren't going to like what I'm going to say now, but the majority of your below post is about his wife. What you think she feels, what you think she said and what you think she has done. I think you need to consider that the information you've have gotten is a one sided view about their marriage from him. At best it's extremely biased and at worst, it's a pack of lies.

 

From what you said, I gather she has finally had enough and she kicked him out, (good for her) and he is still wanting to reconcile. Don't you see that as a man who wants his marriage but since he is still talking to you, he is not fully committed. He still wants both, maybe not a full blown affair, but his contact with you if he wants to reconcile is not conductive to that. To me that indicates a man who is no nearer being certain of anything at this point in time. Nothing seems to have changed except she kicked him out.

 

Girl..........he is still in limbo. Stay away.

 

I can see how it looks. And I understand where you are coming from. The only thing that I know that you are absolutely incorrect on is that I don't have a "one sided" view of his Wife. We live in a VERY small town, and he is rather high profile. We have many mutual friends. I have friends that are friends with the Wife, and it comes up in conversation. I don't partake in the gossiping, but I do listen in when it comes up. The Wife is talking to her friends, and they are talking to each other in my presence. Obviously, the Wife hasn't told them who I am. I'm not basing what I know of her on just what he says, but on what everyone around me says. I never said she was a bad person, I said she doesn't know how to communicate, or won't communicate. And imo? That's a recipe for disaster. So, I'm pretty secure in knowing what type of person she is.

[eleanorrigby]

She filed in February, he moved out, and they have been trying to reconcile since then. He has recently decided that his original issues with her still remain, she refuses to communicate about anything beyond surface level. She wants to remain married, but she doesn't want to talk about any of the issues. He believes that will land them right back where they were. He is now done trying to reconcile. She isn't sure. He wants to get the D done, she refuses to move forward on it at this point, bc it entails discussing deeper issues such as parenting issues, child support, etc.

 

Has he told her explicitly that his reconciliation attempts are at an end?

If not, he should, and he needs to make it clear that he is done. He doesn't need to be an ******* about it, but he needs to make it quite clear.

[AnotherRound]

After 7 years she knows something about her, so she can have an opinion. 7 years is a very long time.

 

AR, don't you resent him for the length of the affair? He just dragged it out for 7 years, until you said enough, and then he didn't get out, he found a crazy woman who pushed the wife to kick him out. Don't you resent him? What did he do, besides finding other women? You ended the affair, the wife filed for divorce. Where's his part?

 

I'd say wait until the D is final (especiallyw ith him trying to reconcile), and then make a decision. Right now he seems to be shopping around. Get a bid from the M, get a bid from you, see where he can land.

 

The biggest problems I see are the length of the affair and his passivity. Didn't you want kids during this time?

 

I don't resent him. I have been, in the past, frustrated with him (and her) in that they weren't living an authentic life. I don't think that the way he handled the entire thing (waiting for her to make the move so he didn't have to) was "right", but I can understand why he was afraid to make it happen.

 

His part is now. He has been honestly trying to reconcile. He came to my house after the D was filed, told me in person that he wanted to reconcile with his wife. Apologized for hurting me and not handling his business in an adult manner. Now, he is done trying to reconcile. He might still change his mind, I don't know. I'm not moving in with him. I'm not seeing him. We are just talking. I'm not going to make any plans as of yet, except that IF they do get the D, I will give it a SLIGHT try. And only IF his actions match his words. I'm not naive (although some seem to think I am), and I am not going to go full blown with him immediately. I just had a date last night with a SG... my life is continuing regardless of what is going on with his.

 

And I don't think he's trying to get a bid. I think he honestly regretted not handling this better and hurting so many people. Having to face his child with this seems to have really put it in the spotlight for him, how wrongly he has handled all of these issues for all of these years. He didn't ask to come over, he didn't ask to have sex with me, he didn't even attempt to do any of those things. He just called and talked to me. He may be using me for emotional support, but I don't have a problem with that. I love him, and want him to be happy, and if supporting him helps that happen, then I'm willing to give it. He's not taking anything from me that I don't want to give.

[AnotherRound]

Hi AR, in terms of general life outlook, perception of people's behaviours etc a lot of what you say resonates with me, so no judgements here.

 

The one big red flag as I see it is your guy's inability to be proactive and make change and be emotionally independent. I don't think you should be his sounding board/counsellor/friend. I think you are his emotional crutch, so to speak. I think entering a full-blown relationship on that basis means a foundation where you're always the growed-up, and he... well, he's not.

 

If I could write the script from here, truthfully, I think I'd have a 6month hiatus from one another. Total no contact. Have a date that you'll telephone him and let him navigate this for himself under his own steam. If he needs IC, fine, but let him do it by himself, for himself. I think - given how ambivalent you seemed initially in your posts - that non-contact period would be good for you too. To think about what you want/need from any new relationship. So that when you guys start afresh it isn't about resurrecting something old, it's about starting something new with a clear head and open eyes.

 

 

I have thought of this, and I think what you said is a good idea. We have never stopped talking completely, so, you may be right, I may be his emotional crutch. I'm not sure how to feel about that. I feel okay with being that for him, as long as I don't get hurt in the process. Right now I don't feel hurt giving that to him, even if he decides that he doesn't want to be with me. I have been out of the A for a year and a half, I have the emotional distance that I need to keep my boundaries strong and myself self. If I ever, at any time, felt that was giving way in order for his needs to be met, I could honestly walk away from it without any regrets.

 

I think though, that maybe giving him 6 months or a year on his own isn't a bad idea. I think he is seeing things from a whole new perspective now, one that I tried for years to get him to see. But, some people need a 2x4 against their head to get it I guess. He values my input and observations bc I do know him so well. He is much more open to feedback now than he has ever been. I think he is truly trying to understand how he got here and why. I don't know if it is a permanent change, and that is what I would need to find out before I went anywhere with him. I know that these things don't always truly sink in, so that's where I am right now. Thanks though for not being judgmental.

[AnotherRound]

Okay so his wife got tired of his lying cheating ass and booted him out the door. Since that time he has been trying to beg himself back home but his wife has stood strong and refused to take him back. It has started to sink in for him that his wife is most likely never going to take him back and as man who feels entitled to lots of female attention and who is afraid to be alone he has decided to see if you will fill the wife's shoes. She has vacated her position and he wants you take over her spot so he can get back to womanizing cheating ways while feeling secure that there is also someone at home to take care of his needs. Lucky you

 

Wow, you know a lot about him! More than I do apparently, and I was intimate with the man for 7 years. Are you the other OW? Or the wife?

 

First, I do confront life head on. It was not my place to show up at his house and confront his wife and child about his behaviors. She called me on the phone a couple of times, didn't say anything, and then carried on with her life. That was her job to confront. Was it fair that he put her in that position? No. But, life isn't fair, and sometimes, we have to put on our big girl panties and face the facts. When my exH cheated on me, I called the girl, explained to her that I knew she was seeing my H. Then, I handled it. I filed for D from him. I wasn't passive aggressive, I didn't hide my head in the sand, I didn't just ignore major information so that I could remain "comfy". Getting divorced sucked. But I did it, bc it was the right thing to do. It wasn't easy, I didn't like it, but it was that, or live in a facade of a marriage that obviously was NOT working. His Wife should have confronted him, or me, on this. I would have been honest with her, and not hateful. But she never found that out bc she was too afraid of having to face the truth and handle her business. I don't think she's a bad person, I think she's a person who doesn't handle life well. I feel sorry for her, I don't hate her.

 

You might be right about him. You might have him completely pegged. Or, you might be completely wrong. I wish I had your powers of being able to see EXACTLY what someone will do in the future, bc that sure would come in handy! But for now, I just have to live my life like a mere mortal and watch people's actions and words and make decisions based on that. And I just have to hope for the best, and if it turns out to be the worst, chin up I guess. Because as of now, I'm just human, and I can't predict what he's going to do, and I can't see into his soul and KNOW that he is a "bad" person. I chuckled at your post too... that you are so convinced that you know him on such an intimate level considering I don't remember you being in the room with us over those 7 years. Uncanny, you should go on the road with that, you'd be a millionaire.