My Story... Going to be LONG...

[Fitz]

Yeah, you're right. I have no ability to be objective since I've been out of the A for a year and a half. Our mutual friends are also biased against the wife when they speak of her, since they are friends of hers. You KNOW how people are. *sigh*

 

I don't recall ever saying that the wife is crazy. Did I say that? Weird, bc I've never thought that. It's hilarious that so many people think that they KNOW what kind of person I am and how I live my life based on one tiny little aspect of it. I feel sad for people who think that an A is the end of the world, must have had a pretty plush and privileged life if that's the worst thing that has happened to you.

 

Wait a minute... I don't recall ever saying that you said that the wife is crazy. Did you think that I said that? Weird, bc I never thought that. It's hilarious that you think you know what kind of person I am and how I live my life... based on one tiny (but amazing) post on LS... Wait a minute... What did I just type? Oh noes! My brain is melting from a paradoxical vortex...

 

OK, first of all I said "coo coo for cocoa puffs" (which I'm pretty sure has a very specific psychiatric meaning...). And the point was not to say that STBXW was in fact "coo coo for cocoa puffs" nor was the point to imply that you thought she is "crazy". (which I never said...) Rather, the point is that the mistress' opinion of the BW is inherently biased. Hence (particularly when there is no open dialogue between them) the OP cannot know the mind/goals/feelings of the BW -anymore than she can know what Jennifer Anniston truly thinks about Brad Pitt. And this is true matter how many of the OW's friends agree with her...

 

In other words, to assume to understand the BW without frank and open dialogue is dangerously presumptuous -albeit not an uncommon stance for many OW. In fact, I'd say it's a predictable behavior. Sure, maybe STBXW is not interested in having a coffee date with you, but that's tangential. As long as one-on-one dialogue is closed, then you can never really know her.

 

Yes, yes, your friends all "objectively" agree with you and think you're a better fit for MM than the ex-wife. Quite impressive... *yawn.* And Yes! Maybe even you are a better fit than STBXW. I'll even buy into that possiblity! It might be true!

 

Which is to remind you that I don't have a dog picked in this race. I'm just a normal guy (sitting in his pretty yet plush mansion, wearing an expensive smoking jacket, living a life of privilege) giving you his honest opinion -an opinion that I'm not surprised you haven't heard from your friends.

 

I'm not here to be incendiary or spiteful or idict you for adultery. Like you and your MM, I enjoy analytical thinking. I just think your "intel" on STBXW is cooked. And as a result, odds are that your views of the STBXW are short sighted. You won't be able to make sense of her nor should you be able to make sense of her when you don't have a dialogue with her and your "experience" of her is filtered through other people's eyes. So, of course STBXW's behavior might seem perplexing.

 

I also think its interesting that you're still sitting on the fence despite a 7 year history with this man. Frankly, that does NOT sound like a ringing endorsement. Well as Teddy Pendergrass sang it, "If you don't know me by now..." Not an attack on your relationship. Simply an observation.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Fitz

[AnotherRound]

Wait a minute... I don't recall ever saying that you said that the wife is crazy. Did you think that I said that? Weird, bc I never thought that. It's hilarious that you think you know what kind of person I am and how I live my life... based on one tiny (but amazing) post on LS... Wait a minute... What did I just type? Oh noes! My brain is melting from a paradoxical vortex...

 

OK, first of all I said "coo coo for cocoa puffs" (which I'm pretty sure has a very specific psychiatric meaning...). And the point was not to say that STBXW was in fact "coo coo for cocoa puffs" nor was the point to imply that you thought she is "crazy". (which I never said...) Rather, the point is that the mistress' opinion of the BW is inherently biased. Hence (particularly when there is no open dialogue between them) the OP cannot know the mind/goals/feelings of the BW -anymore than she can know what Jennifer Anniston truly thinks about Brad Pitt. And this is true matter how many of the OW's friends agree with her...

 

In other words, to assume to understand the BW without frank and open dialogue is dangerously presumptuous -albeit not an uncommon stance for many OW. In fact, I'd say it's a predictable behavior. Sure, maybe STBXW is not interested in having a coffee with you, but that's tangential. As long as dialogue is closed, then you can never really know her.

 

Yes, yes, your friends all "objectively" agree with you and think you're a better fit for MM than the ex-wife. Quite impressive... *yawn.* And Yes! Maybe even you are a better fit than STBXW. I'll even buy into that possiblity! It might be true!

 

Which is to remind you that I don't have a dog picked in this race. I'm just a normal guy (sitting in his pretty yet plush mansion, wearing an expensive smoking jacket, living a life of privilege) giving you his honest opinion -an opinion that I'm not surprised you haven't heard from your friends.

 

I'm not here to be incendiary or spiteful or idict you for adultery. Like you and your MM, I enjoy analytical thinking. I just think your "intel" on STBXW is cooked. And as a result, odds are that your views of the STBXW are short sighted. You won't be able to make sense of her nor should you be able to make sense of her when you don't have a dialogue with her and your "experience" of her is filtered through other people's eyes. So, of course STBXW's behavior might seem perplexing.

 

I also think its interesting that you're still sitting on the fence despite a 7 year history with this man. Frankly, that does NOT sound like a ringing endorsement. Well as Teddy Pendergrass sang it, "If you don't know me by now..." Not an attack on your relationship. Simply an observation.

 

The thing is... in the past year and a half, I haven't thought of them that often, lol. I don't give much thought to the STBxW, bc she isn't in my world any longer. I don't try to analyze her, I was just answering questions from people that were in need of some sort of explanation for why he has stayed in the marriage. My observations are my best guess. Could I be wrong? Absolutely, like I said, I don't read minds.

 

I'm just getting the feeling on here that some people, maybe you included, think that an A is the WORST thing in life that anyone can experience. Imo, that is laughable. In my world, it was the LEAST bad thing that has happened to me in all of my years. So, my understanding why some people are acting as if being cheated on is the end all of life, is well, hard to comprehend. It seems such a minor thing when I compare it to all of the other heartache I have had in my life, so, again perspective really is everything.

 

I mean, if the worst that has happened to you is that you didn't get asked to a dance. Well, sure, that's going to hurt you like hell. But me? It wouldn't even faze me.

 

You seem to believe that it ranks right up there with "death of a child", and for you, that may be true. But it's difficult for me to see it that way bc of my experiences in life. I can empathize with you, but I can't agree with you. Ya know?

 

I never said my opinion of the W wasn't biased. And it wasn't MY friends that were agreeing, it was OUR friends, Wife and I's friends. That's completely different than MY friends. Yeah?

 

And, if you read my threads, you will see, it was not my choice to NOT talk to the BW, it was hers. I gave her opportunities, and I was even nice about it! She didn't want to talk to me, that's her gig, not mine. And just so you know, that's really the only complaint about her that exMM had, was that she has intimacy issues. She won't talk about her thoughts or feelings, etc. Everything else he ever said, was nice. She's a good mother in a lot of ways (not perfect, but heck, who is?), she is a well liked and nice person, she is an attractive lady, etc etc. Believe it or not, we don't sit around bashing her. BUT, we did discuss his frustrations with her inability to communicate, that's why I know what I know.

 

Again, yes, he could be totally lying. And all of our mutual friends could be laying it on thick for my benefit ( even though they have no idea that I was the OW, they just know he had one). You're right, it could be a TOTAL conspiracy to trick me into being his side piece at his convenience! Or, it could just be the truth. lol

 

My exH and I were in a sexless marriage prior to his A. I hear people ALL THE TIME saying, "oh, you know he's having sex with his Wife!". Really? There are no sexless marriages in this world? Check out some of the other boards, it really is going on! My exH loved me and wasn't pursued by his OW, but vice versa. Wait, what? You say that NEVER happens if someone loves someone? Wow, cuz it happened to me. Wait, the OW is ALWAYS the pursuer? Wow, cuz my exH and I talked at length about that, as did the OW and I briefly, and their stories matched up... he pursued her!

 

Amazing, isn't it? How everyone and every situation doesn't fit into this nice and neat little package with a bow on it. Oh, if only they did! How easy this life would be. Like I said, I would LOVE to be that naive (not meant with a negative tone) that I could just sort out life the way I sort out the files in my filing cabinet. But it JUST doesn't work that way.

 

And ps, I'm sure that "coo coo for cocoa puffs" doesn't mean "crazy". Rme.

[AnotherRound]

And, what fence am I sitting on? I NEVER sat on the fence. When I wanted to date SGs, I broke it off with exMM and dated. I have advanced in my career, worked on my home, made new friends, taken new jobs, traveled, vacationed, etc. What have I put on hold to go sit on a fence and stare adoringly at exMM and his STBxW living their perfect lives???

 

I went on a date the other night, I have another date with a different SG this Thursday. I don't see any fence under my arse!

 

What this is, Fitz, is a entirely new opportunity. Or, however you may classify it. This is, a MM who is now in the process of D, who I had a very long relationship with is possibly going to be single and available to date me. Did we have an A? Yes, but that doesn't define or entire relationship. People do form "real" bonds outside of their marriages sometimes, it really does happen. People can love more than one person at a time, it isn't a one person at a time emotion, as are any of the other emotions we feel in this life. There you go again, trying to make gray things be just black or white! Stop that!

[eleanorrigby]

I'm just getting the feeling on here that some people, maybe you included, think that an A is the WORST thing in life that anyone can experience.

 

For me is has been the worst thing. I've had some horrific things happen to me in my life, but they didn't hurt as much as infidelity. I know there are worst things in life, and some of them, I may have even experienced, but infidelity still through me for a bigger loop then any of my other life experiences.

 

So, I don't think people are saying that affairs are the worst thing, but but are like me and it's been the worst thing so far.

[AnotherRound]

For me is has been the worst thing. I've had some horrific things happen to me in my life, but they didn't hurt as much as infidelity. I know there are worst things in life, and some of them, I may have even experienced, but infidelity still through me for a bigger loop then any of my other life experiences.

 

So, I don't think people are saying that affairs are the worst thing, but but are like me and it's been the worst thing so far.

 

And I'm truly sorry for that and can totally empathize with you. It wasn't for me, it ranked up there, but it wasn't the worst, and hasn't been the worst. I think that's an issue on these boards. Is that some people, who believe that it's the worst thing, well, they have to find SOMEONE to blame for it bc it feels so horrible to them. And yes, the WS and the AP are to blame for the A, but classifying anyone who has ever been a WS or an AP as horrible, and immoral, is... somewhat ridiculous. I don't see you doing that, in that your posts are always thoughtful.

 

I hope that it continues to be the worst for you, bc there are so many worse things that can happen in this world. And that's probably why my perspective is different in that I don't think it is the end of the world. Plus, I already faced it, came out stronger and better on the other side, so it doesn't scare me anymore. But then again, little scares me, bc there isn't much that hasn't already been thrown at me. I'm not happy about that, but I'm glad in some ways bc it allows me to live my life without fear.

 

I am sorry that it has been horrible for you. I hope that you can get to a place where it is hardly a blip on your radar any longer. And, I do believe that a WS and a BS can reconcile, if they are both in it 100% and for the long haul. Sometimes, people really do just make a stupid mistake, and have a compatible partner at home. I don't think that is the case with me exMM, but only time will tell.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful posts.

[eleanorrigby]

I hope that it continues to be the worst for you, bc there are so many worse things that can happen in this world. And that's probably why my perspective is different in that I don't think it is the end of the world. Plus, I already faced it, came out stronger and better on the other side, so it doesn't scare me anymore. But then again, little scares me, bc there isn't much that hasn't already been thrown at me. I'm not happy about that, but I'm glad in some ways bc it allows me to live my life without fear.

 

 

 

That was my point. I have been through some of the other things in the world worse then infidelity but infidelity still been the one that hurt me the most.

You see what I'm trying to say?

[Fitz]

I'm just getting the feeling on here that some people, maybe you included, think that an A is the WORST thing in life that anyone can experience. Imo, that is laughable. In my world, it was the LEAST bad thing that has happened to me in all of my years. So, my understanding why some people are acting as if being cheated on is the end all of life, is well, hard to comprehend. It seems such a minor thing when I compare it to all of the other heartache I have had in my life, so, again perspective really is everything.

 

I mean, if the worst that has happened to you is that you didn't get asked to a dance. Well, sure, that's going to hurt you like hell. But me? It wouldn't even faze me.

 

You seem to believe that it ranks right up there with "death of a child", and for you, that may be true. But it's difficult for me to see it that way bc of my experiences in life. I can empathize with you, but I can't agree with you. Ya know?

 

Woah, Nelly! All I said was that a mistress can't truly understand the mindset of a BW without open dialogue. I never said having an affair is the worst thing in life! Or the end of life! Or that its equivalent to the death of a child! Not sure where these assumptions are coming from. Either you are jumping to conclusions or else I don't agree with me either... (???)

 

And, if you read my threads, you will see, it was not my choice to NOT talk to the BW, it was hers. I gave her opportunities, and I was even nice about it! She didn't want to talk to me, that's her gig, not mine.

Like I said, she might not want to go on a coffe date with you -but this is a tangential point. As long as one-on-one dialogue is closed, then you can never know her.

 

My exH and I were in a sexless marriage prior to his A. I hear people ALL THE TIME saying, "oh, you know he's having sex with his Wife!". Really? There are no sexless marriages in this world? Check out some of the other boards, it really is going on! My exH loved me and wasn't pursued by his OW, but vice versa. Wait, what? You say that NEVER happens if someone loves someone? Wow, cuz it happened to me. Wait, the OW is ALWAYS the pursuer? Wow, cuz my exH and I talked at length about that, as did the OW and I briefly, and their stories matched up... he pursued her!

Wait, what? Who are you talking to? I didn't say any of that! Oh, God.. Can't breathe... too many words... stuffed in my mouth... passing out...

 

Amazing, isn't it? How everyone and every situation doesn't fit into this nice and neat little package with a bow on it. Oh, if only they did! How easy this life would be. Like I said, I would LOVE to be that naive (not meant with a negative tone) that I could just sort out life the way I sort out the files in my filing cabinet. But it JUST doesn't work that way.

.

Hello? Wait a minute, who is wrapping bows? Me?

[AnotherRound]

That was my point. I have been through some of the other things in the world worse then infidelity but infidelity still been the one that hurt me the most.

You see what I'm trying to say?

 

I do, and I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to minimize it, just trying to explain that in my life, it wasn't the worst thing. I think that some of the huge fear of it, is that we are, as a society, brainwashed to think that it IS the worst thing a person can do when in a committed relationship. But, I think that's part of the problem. If people realized that there are OTHER ways out of an unhappy situation, there wouldn't be As, imo.

 

As a general rule, there aren't many people who were raised in homes that modeled good communication. So, as adults, it's our job to fix that, and hopefully, to teach it to our children. Teach them how to express their feelings by validating those feelings, always, so that they aren't fearful to express their wants and needs, even if they can't always be met.

 

I think that many people see D as a failure (I know I sure did, back in the day!), and so they do ANYTHING to avoid it. I don't think that is the right way to look at it. I do think that people need to know who they are marrying, but even that won't solve it bc there will always be people who get married and then change the rules. I don't know what the answer is, I just know that there are SO many situations where a D really would be in the best interest of all involved (esp the children), but it is the LAST thing (even aside from an A!) that someone considers. I think that is conditioning by society, and I think it causes far more problems than it solves.

 

I do understand what you are saying, and that's valid. If it is your "big thing", then it is, and it's valid simply bc you feel it. It's just hard for me to understand, but I can empathize. Sorry again if I misunderstood or missed the point earlier and was in any way callous to what you were feeling.

[AnotherRound]

Woah, Nelly! All I said was that a mistress can't truly understand the mindset of a BW without open dialogue. I never said having an affair is the worst thing in life! Or the end of life! Or that its equivalent to the death of a child! Not sure where these assumptions are coming from. Either you are jumping to conclusions or else I don't agree with me either... (???)

 

Like I said, she might not want to go on a coffe date with you -but this is a tangential point. As long as one-on-one dialogue is closed, then you can never know her.

 

Wait, what? Who are you talking to? I didn't say any of that! Oh, God.. Can't breathe... too many words... stuffed in my mouth... passing out...

 

Hello? Wait a minute, who is wrapping bows? Me?

 

Lol... okay, I get it. It's an issue of semantics. You believe that "knowing someone" means something different than I do. Okay, I concede, I don't know her in the way, say, I know my best friend. Yes, you are absolutely right. Does that make me ignorant of any of her personality traits? Not in my opinion. I believe, from hearing things here and there, that I can have a pretty good idea of her communication style (avoiding). Maybe you disagree, that's okay. I'm not claiming to know her INTIMATELY. Obviously, I don't, nor does she know me (and neither do you) know ME in that way. It's a two way street.

 

I guess what you consider "limited knowing of someone", I consider enough to base an idea of how she communicates on.

 

The other stuff was just examples, or metaphors, or similes to help you understand what I was trying to say. No biggie. We can agree to disagree. Or, did we agree? lol

[Fitz]

And, what fence am I sitting on? I NEVER sat on the fence.

I was refering to your feelings toward dating MM now. In other words, after 7 years you should have a solid understanding whether you want to be with him or not. Again, to paraphrase Teddy Pendergrass, "if you don't know (understand) him by now, you will never know (understand) him."

 

There you go again, trying to make gray things be just black or white! Stop that!

Stop what? You've been making counter points to arguements that I never made in the first place and arguing with imaginary Fitz this whole time! Edited September 10, 2012 by Fitz

[2sunny]

I typed all of this out the other day, and then hit some random button and it disappeared. So, got my coffee, and here goes try #2...

 

I began seeing exMM in 2004. We met through mutual friends, and I had no idea that he was M, as I was new to the area. Mutual friends did know, and did not tell me. Their explanation later was that they thought he and I would be "good" together, and they thought he needed to get out of his M. Don't worry, I gave them hell for not giving me a heads up, as they all knew that I would not pursue or become involved with a M man. Anyway, I did, and found out 3 weeks later that he was M. I made a decision at that time, I struggled back and forth, but eventually, decided to go on with it. I own that 100%. ExMM's explanation for it? "You wouldn't have had anything to do with me if you had known, and I knew that we would click." And again, don't worry, I gave him hell for that too. I hate making decisions when I don't have all the information that I need. But, that's all water under the bridge now.

 

So, we did hit it off. I was a former BW. Married young, and divorce was finalized in 2001. ExH and I tried to reconcile for 2 years, didn't work, we just weren't right for each other, no matter how much we loved one another, eh, it happens. So, I had been free and clear for about a year. I had moved 600 miles away from everything I had known and was enjoying the single life while attending graduate school. I was dating, but just not finding anyone that I really wanted to spend time with... until ExMM.

 

So, we meet, and everything is fantastic. We are very honest with one another (after I confront him with being married), and the relationship lasts for the next 7 years. I did try to end it, many times. Not bc I didn't love exMM, or any "major" issues in our relationship, but mostly bc I became frustrated with him and his W and their apparent inability to handle their own business. W knew about me from the get go. She knew my name, where I lived, etc. She stalked me a little, but never confronted me. I always told MM, I will NOT lie to her, but since he wasn't lying to her either, it didn't really matter. She obviously chose to not handle it, which is kind of how she lives her entire life. I don't understand it bc I'm not that girl, but hey, it takes all kinds.

 

So, we go on for 7 years, with me occasionally breaking it off to date SGs. He didn't like that part of it, but he knew he couldn't say much. And, although I loved him, I'm not new, and I knew that I deserved a chance at a relationship that wasn't an A. I really did give them an honest effort, but I live in an area that is FAR more conservative than I am and it's really difficult to find someone here with my same beliefs and views, not to mention finding someone that I'm actually attracted to.

 

In April of 2011, I decided to end the relationship with exMM. I still loved him, very much so, but I was done with the A. I was tired of being the band aid for he and his W so that they could continue to live in their fantasy world. I was tired of sacrificing things that I wanted in a relationship so that they could carry on as a 2 income family in an ostentatious house. So, I ended it. ExMM begged for 4 months. He tried to change things, he promised me all kinds of things (not divorce bc he was terrified of that). But, when I'm done, I'm just done. They had plenty of time in 7 years to sort their business and they didn't. I'm a person who confronts life head on, and I was exhausted with their inability to do the same.

 

So, I give myself some time to heal, and then begin to date. All SGs, no more MM for me, ever. What I had with exMM was a one time thing, and not something I was looking for in life. ExMM then entered into what I think was an exit affair for him. With me taking away the band aid that was literally holding their marriage together, they quickly fell apart. ExMm began to see another OW, who went into the R knowing that he was M. However, she was quickly not content and began to show up at his familial home, his workplace, and began to have tantrums in his street with all the neighbors watching. At this point, ExMMs wife was (imo) FORCED to handle these issues. W wasn't surprised, or mad. She knew that he and I had broken up as they had a really rough patch while he tried to handle his grief about me ending the A. I was the balm that was no longer there, and they were forced to face one another in a very real way.

 

So, W decides that she can no longer ignore the issues in their M, and files for D. ExMM moves out. He is still in contact with me occasionally (we do run into each other somewhat frequently, small town and all), but now, we are talking and nothing else. Mostly, I am providing him counseling. I am far enough removed from the situation at this point, a year and a half later, that it's fine with me. Although I do continue on with my own life, dating, working, etc. At this point, it's nothing more to me than talking to an old friend who is having a difficult time. ExMM decides that he wants to reconcile with his family. He doesn't want to give up seeing his child daily, or his home (his dream house according to him), the years that they have been together. However, he and W both have become aware that they are obviously not a good fit. Wife is not a communicator. She is the girl who just looks the other way, and he becomes quickly frustrated with this bc obviously, a reconciliation of any type is going to take a LOT of communicating about issues. She refuses, and continues to be the person that she has always been, obviously. (Not saying it's all her fault, but honestly, they are about as wrongly matched as my exH and I were... not that we didn't love each other, but it just happens sometimes).

 

So, ExMM contacts me and wants to talk. He states that he has tried to reconcile for the sake of his family (him, W, and children), but that he realizes that W is never going to be the type of person he wants in a R. He states that he was willing to try to make it work bc he felt guilty for the A, and not really putting his energy into the M bc he was so frustrated. He states that he now feels that he has given it an honest effort and it's just not going to work bc he and W both want the other to be someone that they just aren't. He now wants to focus on being happy, on finding peace in his life. He now feels like he can walk away knowing that he honestly tried and it just didn't work.

 

Where do I come in? Well, he wants to know if I would be willing to try to see if he and I can have a relationship. Without it being an A. I am caught completely off guard. Not bc I ever doubted his feelings for me, or me for him, I didn't. But I learned long ago, love only goes so far, and is truly only one piece of making a relationship work. He doesn't want to rush, he wants to make good decisions for himself and his child. He has always had feelings for me, and has always believed that he and I could have had one of those rare relationships if it had been under different circumstances.

 

I have healed. I have gotten past him. Not that I ever stopped loving him, that's now how I work. But, I had gotten to the point that it didn't hurt anymore to hear of him with someone else. That I was comfortable in knowing that he loved me but that we just couldn't be together bc he wanted to try to make good on his M. I would talk to him about his feelings, his thoughts, and I had the luxury of being removed from it emotionally. We were able to maintain our friendship, the basis of our understanding of one another, and it didn't hurt.

 

So now, I'm just here trying to read, and gain insight. I know what my heart wants to do, no problem. But I also remember that love is just one tiny piece of that puzzle. Is it enough for he and I at this point? I have no idea. Am I willing to get reinvolved emotionally with him? I'm not sure. I love him, absolutely. I wish him well in life, and I want him to be happy. But, am I willing to give this a try? I'm not sure. He has been wise, and has been focusing on his M, and getting his head straight. He is now, imo, out of the fog. He is seeing things more clearly now, as is his W it appears. There is no shame, imo, of realizing that you married the wrong person. Or, in trying to find happiness once you realize this.

 

I'm not saying I'm the right person, there are more than one right persons in this life for everyone. But, I am probably a good chance at being one of those people for him and he for me. I have missed him. I do love him. I'm just not sure that I'm willing to reinvest at this time. It's been nice, this single life of no responsibility to anyone else. Of living my life for me alone. Of making decisions based on only me.

 

So, I'm not even sure what I'm looking for on this board. I'm just looking at all angles I guess, analyzing. And, giving myself somewhere to vent about it all. I like to make my decisions with a LOT of information. I'm now gaining that information... from here, and from exMM too. The other night we talked for 4 hours. We talked about everything... Us, him, me, his M, the reconciliation efforts, the other OW after me, where his head is, where his feelings are... everything. He isn't pressuring me for answers, he knows that we have a LOT of communicating to do before anything is decided. Good thing is, we are both communicators. We are both analytic people who like to have all the info, and that's what we are doing now I guess. Gathering intel.

 

So, I was initially feeling pretty confused. Now, I'm just feeling like I can't make any kind of decision as of yet, bc I need more info. Some of that info will be seeing how he handles all of these issues while they finalize their divorce. I do, however, believe that no matter what happens with he and I that he and his W will be SO much happier once this is all over. And I think that they both deserve that. I don't think anyone deserves to have to be in a LT relationship with someone that they aren't happy with simply because at one point they thought that they could make it. These things happen, it's nobody's fault.

 

So, that's my long story. Thought I'd give some background to everyone. So, I'm not the OW anymore (at least I don't think so?), and I won't be ever again. But I was hoping to find someone else that was maybe in a similar situation in that I might gain some insight. Thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to interacting on the boards!

 

Don't decide anyhing for at least a year AFTER his D is FINAL! And hopefully he gets counseling. It seems he needs to be on his own without any woman - I doubt he will do it that way - because he seems afraid of being alone.

 

He's also asking you to be his second choice - since his W doesn't want him - he's looking to youas his next option = same as he's always offered.

 

I hope you say no. And I hope you quit communicating with him - you are still his crutch.

 

You deserve better than what he offers.

 

Never settle!

[2sunny]

I agree. This will tell how serious he is. He has been so afraid for so many years to walk away, I'm not sure yet if he is truly done, or if he is just frustrated. He says he is done, but we will see if his actions follow through. Right now, they are working on the paper work re splitting assets, child support, and visitation. He has filed his, she has not filed hers. She says that she hasn't had time. He wants to talk to her about it and settle it between them and then turn it in. She keeps saying, "not now, later".

 

I wish he was more proactive. He and I just discussed this the other day. I told him that he is always at the whim of whomever he is with. That he is always reacting, and that I wish he would act more bc it would show what he wants and needs. He agreed that he is fearful of making decisions. He said esp with the D bc he is afraid of how it will affect his child. It's like he doesn't want to make a bad decision and have that negatively affect his child. He had been feeling a lot of guilt up until now. I think he had convinced himself that he was entirely to blame for the breakdown of the M bc he had an A. Now, he is seeing it more clearly I think, that the breakdown was a combination of the two of them, and that the A was a symptom of that breakdown. He still feels guilty about the A, but he doesn't feel fully responsible for the breakdown of the relationship, esp since she continues to be unwilling to communicate (which was his biggest issue with her always).

 

I am just sitting on the sidelines. It's not my business, and I'm not getting involved. I just want them all to be happy. It was pretty frustrating all those years watching a family be miserable when in my mind, there was such an easy solution. But, I had been through D before, so it wasn't this scarey boogey man to me anymore. They hadn't, so I understood the fear, esp since they have a child together.

 

Like I said, I'm just living my own life, and they are doing their thing. I'm not contacting him, or following him around, or pushing him one way or the other. I just told him, you need to figure out what you WANT, and then make that happen. If it means reconciling, then make that happen. If it means D, then make that happen.

 

I may be here when it's all said and done, I may not. I haven't decided completely yet. I'm leaning towards yes, I would like to try it, bc I don't want to wonder my whole life about it. But then again, he may do something in this whole D situation that I say, nope, not going to work. I don't know yet.

 

Thanks for the responses.

 

YOU are STILL waaaay too involved in ALL the details of THEIR marriage.

 

Being his "friend" still has you all wrapped up in what really isn't any of YOUR business.

 

Step away from his chaos in order for YOU to heal and gain clarity!

[AnotherRound]

The "stop that" was from my previous response. I was saying, I think that you see the world in a much more black and white way than I do, or ever have. Nothing wrong with that, I just don't see the world that way. If I'm wrong about you seeing it that way, sorry, that's just what I gathered from our interactions on here.

 

As far as the fence sitting goes, I did KNOW, a year and a half ago, that I didn't want to be in an A. It wasn't that I didn't want to be with exMM, I didn't want the A. Now, if I had ended it bc he was abusive, or I thought he was being dishonest with me, or he was eating my peanut butter out of the jar (I HATE that!), that would be a different story. But I didn't. I simply ended it bc I didn't want to be in an A any longer, that was it. I didn't fall out of love with him, or hate him, or resent him, I was just frustrated that he wasn't handling his business the way that I thought would bring him the most happiness. And, I was never one to tell him to get D so we could be together.

 

I'm not going to lie, we obviously have never had the day to day stuff in our relationship, as we live in different houses and such. So, I have NO idea if it would work, just like with any other relationship I've ever been in. I can't predict the future of them. I think, on some levels, that we could probably make it in a relationship that wasn't an A. I don't KNOW that, I just think there's a high possibility. My questions now aren't about him as a person (as you know bc we obvs disagree on what "type" of person he is), but about the fact that I wasn't sure if even trying was going to be worth it. Of course, nobody ever knows if it's going to be worth it or work out, but he and I DO have something to base our beliefs re that on, the 7 years that we were in an intimate relationship with one another.

 

Mainly, I was here to see if anyone had been through something similar, simply to get some insight. All the while knowing that each situation is unique and has far too many variable to be boiled down into a simple answer. And this OP was simply the background as some had asked for it. I wasn't trying to start anything, just sharing about my story.

 

So, I wasn't shadow boxing, I was responding to things that you said. If I didn't understand what you were attempting to say, I apologize. I am going back and forth between here and work projects, so, maybe I misunderstood. Again, no biggie.

[AnotherRound]

YOU are STILL waaaay too involved in ALL the details of THEIR marriage.

 

Being his "friend" still has you all wrapped up in what really isn't any of YOUR business.

 

Step away from his chaos in order for YOU to heal and gain clarity!

 

Okay, I get what you are saying. But, I am not involved. We had one conversation! lol On here, I'm just responding with what I know or have been told. I promise, I have a LOT going on besides their M and D and all that goes with it. It's not my main thought in the day, nor is it what I am focusing my life's energy on. I just type really fast and answer a lot on here...

[AnotherRound]

PS I'm not settling. I had ONE conversation with the man, lol. We aren't secretly married, or living together, or planning our family. It was ONE single, solitary conversation. And, I will decide who I am intimate with if that's okay with you, lol. We all settle in some way, bc nobody is PERFECT. If I decide to settle for him, and get all involved in their D, and that kind of thing... your shouting at me !!!! will be warranted. Until then, please chill!

[Fitz]

I'm not claiming to know her INTIMATELY. Obviously, I don't, nor does she know me (and neither do you) know ME in that way. It's a two way street.

 

True, i can't claim to know you simple based on our exchanges on a LS forum.

 

But an important distinction here is that I'm actually having an open conversation with you, which then allows us to approach an understanding wtih eachother.

 

Your relationship with STBXW falls short of this fundamental difference.

And this IMHO is why you cannot truly understand her in any honest or meaningful way. -at least not beyond supefcial anecdotes.

[AnotherRound]

True, i can't claim to know you simple based on our exchanges on a LS forum.

 

But an important distinction here is that I'm actually having an open conversation with you, which then allows us to approach an understanding wtih eachother.

 

Your relationship with STBXW falls short of this fundamental difference.

And this IMHO is why you cannot truly understand her in any honest or meaningful way. -at least not beyond supefcial anecdotes.

 

Yep, I conceded that point to you previously. We do agree! I just believe that the knowledge that I have is more than just "superficial anecdotes" and you don't. Because it appears that you are assuming that she would be TRUTHFUL with me, if we did sit down and speak one one one. I assume no such thing. So, I feel that what I "know" is fairly accurate to be true. And, her avoiding discussing anything with me, despite multiple opportunities, well, that kind of cements it, ya know? So we agree, somewhat. lol That's fine with me, Thanks for the chat!

[2sunny]

What this is, Fitz, is a entirely new opportunity. Or, however you may classify it. This is, a MM who is now in the process of D, who I had a very long relationship with is possibly going to be single and available to date me.

 

It's really not a new opportunity. You see - he would really just choose to stay married if his wife still allowed it... It's just that she has now taken her power back and wants to end it.

 

And he's afraid of being alone - so he's still choosing you AFTER her ( I'm not shouting - it's for emphasis on words).

 

What help did you want? You seem to be mad at anyone who offers suggestions here... What is it you're searching for?

[2sunny]

PS I'm not settling. I had ONE conversation with the man, lol. We aren't secretly married, or living together, or planning our family. It was ONE single, solitary conversation. And, I will decide who I am intimate with if that's okay with you, lol. We all settle in some way, bc nobody is PERFECT. If I decide to settle for him, and get all involved in their D, and that kind of thing... your shouting at me !!!! will be warranted. Until then, please chill!

 

Why the sarcasm? Sarcasm is anger and underlying fear.

 

I can't see why you insist on sarcasm when folks are taking their timeand experience to try to be helpful to you.

 

Can ya tell I don't ever dig sarcasm? Why don't you just say what you need to say without being passive aggressive with sarcasm?

[Got it]

AnotherRound, welcome!

 

I agree with many of your points and with your other thread on actions. While we both made mistakes I do not see my dMM as a "bad" man no more than I am a bad person or BS is a bad person. We all have made mistakes, poor decisions, etc. but each person is trying to muddle through life the best they can.

 

I too, still have had limited involvement with his ex wife but through actions and written conversation can make a pretty good assumption on certain behaviors and decisions.

 

What I realized with dMM was that I needed to have my boundaries in place, I needed to make sure I put myself at a level I felt I deserved and he would either step up or step out. He needed to figure out what he wanted in his life and make those decisions. We broke up after our dday but stayed in verbal contact. We gave each other some support but I realized he needed to figure out what he wanted and official fence sitting wasn't going to be an option. Move up or move out.

 

It sounds like you have a good mindset on this and you know your life best. I have found a good rule of thumb, take what you need from what people post and leave the rest.

 

Welcome and thanks for your story!

[Quiet Storm]

As for him, he has been a serial cheater through this marriage. I honestly believe that sometimes, people just marry the wrong people. I did, and I still didn't want to get divorced. We had no children together, and only a house to split, but I saw it as a failure, as if it reflected on my inability to make a good choice or a good decision. Looking back now, the best thing we ever did was get divorced and move on from each other, despite loving one another, it would have NEVER worked. We just didn't have anything stopping us from divorcing, like children, or decades of being married, so it wasn't that hard of a decision for us. I was a BW, and I realized that he cheated bc he was never going to be happy with me. Not a reflection on me, and not that I condoned what he did, but I could see why he did it. I was just as unhappy, just not cheating. But, the cheating was the catalyst I needed to get out of something that was making me (and him!) miserable.

 

 

 

I think you are making a big mistake by believing his cheating was situational, and not character related.

 

In the case of your marriage, you were both unhappy, but only one partner cheated. Why do you think that is?

 

There are many unhappily married people that DO NOT CHEAT because it is against their values. Regardless of the health of the marriage, they know it's dishonest and wrong. There are many ways to deal with an unhappy marriage besides cheating, and the fact that a person chose the cheating route says a lot about their integrity and how that person deals with their problems.

 

Since there are so many people that can and do remain faithful despite being in a bad relationship, I believe that cheating results from a person's individual character. It shows that they are comfortable with lying and being sneaky. It can indicate poor coping skills and conflict avoidance. It shows they are willing to manipulate a person or situation for their own personal gain.

[AnotherRound]

I think you are making a big mistake by believing his cheating was situational, and not character related.

 

In the case of your marriage, you were both unhappy, but only one partner cheated. Why do you think that is?

 

There are many unhappily married people that DO NOT CHEAT because it is against their values. Regardless of the health of the marriage, they know it's dishonest and wrong. There are many ways to deal with an unhappy marriage besides cheating, and the fact that a person chose the cheating route says a lot about their integrity and how that person deals with their problems.

 

Since there are so many people that can and do remain faithful despite being in a bad relationship, I believe that cheating results from a person's individual character. It shows that they are comfortable with lying and being sneaky. It can indicate poor coping skills and conflict avoidance. It shows they are willing to manipulate a person or situation for their own personal gain.

 

You make very valid points. I would have never cheated, but I just don't believe that makes my character "better" than his. It's just not something I would do, for my own reasons. He may be avoidant on some levels, but I truly believe that it was situational. I could be totally wrong, and I'm willing to accept the consequences of that if I am. If he and I end up together, and he cheats on me, I will handle it. It wouldn't be the end of the world for me, and it's a chance I am willing to take. My exH was someone that nobody ever thought would cheat. So sometimes, our perceptions are dead wrong. I'm willing to risk that. This is a man I've known intimately for 7 years. I feel like I have a pretty good idea of who he is. He has never been avoidant with me regarding anything we have ever discussed.

 

I may be wrong, and I appreciate your well thought and well said response. I guess at this point, it is a matter of, am I willing to take the chance? I think that I am. Like I said, if he cheats on me, I will handle it, and I will be fine. So, what is the worst that can happen? He isn't going to murder me, anything less than that, I can deal with appropriately. I'm not afraid of it, betrayal isn't an end all for me.

[Quiet Storm]

I may be wrong, and I appreciate your well thought and well said response. I guess at this point, it is a matter of, am I willing to take the chance? I think that I am. Like I said, if he cheats on me, I will handle it, and I will be fine. So, what is the worst that can happen? He isn't going to murder me, anything less than that, I can deal with appropriately. I'm not afraid of it, betrayal isn't an end all for me.

 

 

Many of us want more out of our partners than just not being a murderer, and a history of betrayal would be an important factor to consider.

 

Everyone has different standards, I guess.

[AnotherRound]

And like you don't get how some approach situations, some people don't get how any one could or would stay in an affair and be a mistress for 7 years. he probably has told her how you are some chick who fancies him and won't take no for an answer. He probably has convinced his wife you are just a harmless stalker It is so foreign to me how so many women get caught up in affairs - some for a few weeks/months to those who are languishing in them for years...knowing full well the MM isn't leaving or the MM is trying to reconcile...again. That sure doesn't scream "love" to me (as in, if he loves you so much, why keep trying to make it work with the wife? Don't use the kid excuse...he carried on an affair for 7 years barely seeing his kid...why does the kid matter now?)

 

Barely seeing his kid? What are you talking about? The time he spent with me NEVER cut into time with his kid, ever. But I guess, if you're going to believe what you just typed, that would fit into that story line.

 

I guess I will languish... you know, like I have for the past year and a half since I walked away from him... lol. Some posters here are really off. Judge away, I'm not scared.

 

And, if my standards aren't up to par (to the other poster) oh well. If you aren't dating him, why so mad? I mean, if I want to date him and get cheated on... why do you care? It sounds bitter, not as if you truly care about a stranger's best interest. I might see your "standards" and think the same.

[AnotherRound]

Why the sarcasm? Sarcasm is anger and underlying fear.

 

I can't see why you insist on sarcasm when folks are taking their timeand experience to try to be helpful to you.

 

Can ya tell I don't ever dig sarcasm? Why don't you just say what you need to say without being passive aggressive with sarcasm?

 

Lol. It wasn't sarcasm, although I do use that occasionally bc I find it witty. I was in a silly mood after bantering with Fitz for a while. The only thing I'm responding to negatively is judgment and people who are convinced that they know everything.

 

If you read my story, I clearly state that I'm not sure that I'm "looking" for anything on the boards except to read and gain insight and perhaps find someone that has a similar story to share with. Sorry that you took offense to imaginary offenses. (that was sarcasm, and I don't care if you care for it. )