Marriage is completely unecessary

[Pyro]

It sure as hell does not promote stability and commitment anymore.

 

That is up to the couple to do and maintain.

[Pyro]

Not every marriage in today's age is going to crash.

 

Marriage, just like everything else in life is a risk. If you have the desire to do it then do it.

[Woggle]

That is up to the couple to do and maintain.

 

It seems not a lot are maintaining it. Also a piece of paper doesn't really matter in this regard. I am not saying people shouldn't get married but these days it is mostly symbolic.

[Titanwolf]

I'm not going to judge anyone who has gotten married, but I personally think it's unnecessary. The paper doesn't determine my level of commitment. I've seen couples (my Uncle and his GF), watch their friends go through marriages like nothing. They've remained together (32 years and counting) whilst all around them have to constantly deal with divorce and psychological restriction (being married making you feel trapped). I think just giving someone the option to leave whenever they wish is extremely beneficial to a relationship. It gives them peace of mind and freedom that marriage doesn't allow, because you're legally tied at the hip. Leave a bird cage open and see if it flies away, if it doesn't, I think it wants to stay because it's content with being there.

[hardlybreathing]

It's not always a bad deal for men. I was married to a man that after one year of marriage decided he needed some young stuff. Well, he came into the marriage with pretty much nothing - I provided a heck of lot for our life style, taught him how to dress well, and took very good care of him, emotionally, physically and mentally. Granted we shared expenses, but I had a hell of lot more to lose than he did when we got married. So when I found out he cheated, I wrote him a check and said good-bye! He had more money leaving the marriage than when he came into it. Fast foward, I have had to start over, while he lives large! Am I bitter, somewhat, but in the grand scheme of things, it's just stuff!

 

I lost a lot of money being married to him so it works both ways. Now, the end of this story is - I'm getting married again, why? Because I still believe in the institution of marriage. Statistically men are healthier and happier when married and for me, I love having a husband! I love the sharing, the love and yes the commitment. I'm not scared of it and yes, I could loose again, but it's not what marriage is about now is it? I don't look at it at a lose lose proposition - I look at it as a journey full of hope, love and tons of fun!

 

I think you perception is a little skewed.

[irin]

Marriage is an institution that is no longer necessary. It is doing more harm than good to millions of good people across the world every year. Why do we still have it?

 

I suspect it has to do with lawyers. Why, for example, must one get a "Marriage license" before getting married in a church. Think about that for a minute. Why would the church be ok with the State inserting itself into a religious ceremony? Do they do this for any of the other sacraments? No.

 

Marriage is completely redundant. You can have children, jointly own property, wear rings, change your name, live together, go on vacation. You can do EVERYTHING a married couple does.There are contracts for all of that stuff and do you really need contracts? If so then you should not be together in the first place (Side note: Men - ALWAYS insist on contracts. No exceptions)

 

The issue that has come up before is health insurance. So that is the big justification for marriage. Health insurance: Really? ....Really?!

 

Marriage is a cute romantic notion of a bygone era. Customs change. This is one that needs to go.

 

What do you think?

 

okay you need changet the whole world to the U.S

 

most of that crap doesnt exist in whole world, license/health insurance/change name/finance in divorce. these thing dont come with marriage in most of the world.

 

its simply the unity of a couple to start a family. only in the u.s/some of Europe marriage is how you described it.

[strongnrelaxed]

It's not always a bad deal for men. I was married to a man that after one year of marriage decided he needed some young stuff. Well, he came into the marriage with pretty much nothing - I provided a heck of lot for our life style, taught him how to dress well, and took very good care of him, emotionally, physically and mentally. Granted we shared expenses, but I had a hell of lot more to lose than he did when we got married. So when I found out he cheated, I wrote him a check and said good-bye! He had more money leaving the marriage than when he came into it. Fast foward, I have had to start over, while he lives large! Am I bitter, somewhat, but in the grand scheme of things, it's just stuff!

 

I lost a lot of money being married to him so it works both ways. Now, the end of this story is - I'm getting married again, why? Because I still believe in the institution of marriage. Statistically men are healthier and happier when married and for me, I love having a husband! I love the sharing, the love and yes the commitment. I'm not scared of it and yes, I could loose again, but it's not what marriage is about now is it? I don't look at it at a lose lose proposition - I look at it as a journey full of hope, love and tons of fun!

 

I think you perception is a little skewed.

 

Thanks for responding. I am glad you mentioned the "married men are healthier" stat. This has been debunked. One guy states "Marriage didn’t make him happy. He was happy and healthy before, and the only thing these studies are proving is that marriage didn’t make him less happy and healthy. This fact still shines a favorable light on marriage, but instead of looking at matrimony as having transformative powers on a man’s life, perhaps we should be focused on getting men (and women) healthy and happy instead of hitched."

 

Your case is rare and you have to acknowledge that. More often than not the man is getting a very bad deal - depending on the number of kids, incomes the state you live in etc.

 

I am still not convinced.

 

Marriage is awesome for women, horrible for men.

 

Men know this too. Too many are just afraid to speak up. It would just make their lives miserable. So they lie and say "yes , honey. I am very happy. That guy online sounds bitter and angry. He is one of the bad guys. Men really like being married honey cakes.

[strongnrelaxed]

okay you need changet the whole world to the U.S

 

most of that crap doesnt exist in whole world, license/health insurance/change name/finance in divorce. these thing dont come with marriage in most of the world.

 

its simply the unity of a couple to start a family. only in the u.s/some of Europe marriage is how you described it.

 

I didn't consider this, and thank you for sharing it.

 

Still, I was only talking about the US - and if I wanted to get specific, more so about New York state.

 

It is very bad indeed. Men should immediately boycott marriage until the divorce laws get fixed. You can put people in jail for many reasons, but you cannot yet force men to marry.

 

More men than ever are opting out. This is an excellent development and I suspect that this movement will grow tremendously as men wake up to the realities of married life.

 

The old days of ignorant men marrying for love and romance are coming to a close. Finally.

[Woggle]

I don't agree with him but he is fresh out of a nasty divorce so be easy on him.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I don't agree with him but he is fresh out of a nasty divorce so be easy on him.

 

What is so nasty about having to pay child support??

[Woggle]

What is so nasty about having to pay child support??

 

Have you read the entire story of his divorce?

[Mme. Chaucer]

^^^

 

Yes, I have. It's not any worse at all than my own.

 

No matter how bad someone has had it, I have no patience or respect for a person who discounts other peoples' beliefs, choices, lifestyles, values, etc.

 

Ranting and raving about how anyone who chooses to get married (or believe in God, or anything else he doesn't go for, evidently) is "duped" is just lame.

 

Why do you think that men who have problems are justified in acting like complete *******s because of their problems, and should be meted out empathy and sympathy …

 

when you don't extend that to women with serious problems?

 

By your logic, your ex wife and your mom should be seen as sympathetic characters. Clearly, they had / have serious issues and probably bad childhoods.

 

If they were men, you'd be all over defending them.

[Woggle]

They do way way more than just venting about marriage on the internet.

[Mme. Chaucer]

They do way way more than just venting about marriage on the internet.

 

I know, and sorry - it wasn't fair for me to bring them up.

 

I had a terrible divorce. Does that make it right for me to disrespect the views of every single person on LoveShack who believes something different than I do? Or is that just okay if you're a guy?

[Woggle]

I know, and sorry - it wasn't fair for me to bring them up.

 

I had a terrible divorce. Does that make it right for me to disrespect the views of every single person on LoveShack who believes something different than I do? Or is that just okay if you're a guy?

 

If a freshly divorced women who was royally screwed over came on here and vented like this I would not agree with her but I would hope I would understand her. I admit it is a little harder to not get defensive when your own gender is the target but I would try and see what caused that cynicism. Soserious made some comments about marriage and monogamy that made me shake my head but then I remembered where it came from.

 

If this guy is still like this two years from now then yeah move on but the pain is still fresh for him. I was worse than this freshly after my divorce but I eventually did fall in love again.

[Mme. Chaucer]

If a freshly divorced women who was royally screwed over came on here and vented like this I would not agree with her but I would hope I would understand her. I admit it is a little harder to not get defensive when your own gender is the target but I would try and see what caused that cynicism. Soserious made some comments about marriage and monogamy that made me shake my head but then I remembered where it came from.

 

If this guy is still like this two years from now then yeah move on but the pain is still fresh for him. I was worse than this freshly after my divorce but I eventually did fall in love again.

 

Telling people that what they believe in is stupid does not fall into the realm of "venting." This poster does it about religion as well.

 

It's not a "gender" issue. It's a disrespect and ignorance issue.

 

Please show me exactly where this terrible screwing over is described. I just re-read the thread about the 100% garnishment for child support, which I don't believe is possible - but that is not about getting screwed over by marriage or by women.

[strongnrelaxed]

I don't agree with him but he is fresh out of a nasty divorce so be easy on him.

 

Thanks Woogle. MMe C's comments are perfect. I prefer that she rip away. This is more than I could have asked for.

 

If just one young man reads her words and takes them in. There is a lot of venom there. Ironically, she feels that my words are emotion laden etc. Sure I am strident and passionate about this. But She and I are coming at this from different perspectives.

 

I am confident that at least one or two younger viewers are reading this.

 

They are smart enough to make up their own minds. I posted elsewhere about the nature of the Marriage contract. Young men would find it interesting to read that.

 

These attacks are awesome. It is exactly why men are opting out of serious relationships with women in droves.

 

I harbor no illusions. I know that marriage will continue unabated. I cannot save everyone! AllI have to do is convince two or three.

 

Mme C's posts are better than me just sitting here rambling way on my own. The vitriol, lack of evidence, the nastiness and bullying tone are awesome.

Men usually get suckered in my a warm, smooth voice, a soft body and a wink of the eye, and then years later they wake up next to someone like MMe'C!

 

She is doing exactly what could have been expected. Nothing surprising.

 

I could probably write her next five responses if I were so inclined.

 

Men are paying attention now. They aren't ignoring this sort of ****e any more and they are calling women out on it. I am not surprised that a women who is getting on in age is going to really kick and scream about this change. It must be scary.

 

But here we are.

[hardlybreathing]

Thanks for responding. I am glad you mentioned the "married men are healthier" stat. This has been debunked. One guy states "Marriage didn’t make him happy. He was happy and healthy before, and the only thing these studies are proving is that marriage didn’t make him less happy and healthy. This fact still shines a favorable light on marriage, but instead of looking at matrimony as having transformative powers on a man’s life, perhaps we should be focused on getting men (and women) healthy and happy instead of hitched."

 

 

 

One guy and it's debunked. There are tons and tons of articles out there about this, do your research!!!! It is a proven fact.

 

Your case is rare and you have to acknowledge that. More often than not the man is getting a very bad deal - depending on the number of kids, incomes the state you live in etc.

 

 

I don't think it's rare at all. Perhaps men get a bad deal because they were a bad husband.

[strongnrelaxed]

Telling people that what they believe in is stupid does not fall into the realm of "venting." This poster does it about religion as well.

 

It's not a "gender" issue. It's a disrespect and ignorance issue.

 

Please show me exactly where this terrible screwing over is described. I just re-read the thread about the 100% garnishment for child support, which I don't believe is possible - but that is not about getting screwed over by marriage or by women.

 

Forgive me ladies, but I must step in here. You are obviously free comment as you see fit, but I will not let this misinterpretation of my posts or a post by any other man pass without a challenge.

 

When you call my posts "venting" or "stupid" you are labeling. If children were doing this, we could reasonably call it bullying. This is a lie. Period. This is a perfect example of what is wrong with out political system - politicians all lie. They spin the words of others to suit their own ends. That is what you are doing. I know you think that all men are stupid, and perhaps we are. But we can see these things better once they are called out. So that's what I am doing.

 

When I say that marriage is a horrible and bad idea and a bad deal for men. I would suspect that the average American woman will feel anxiety over this statement. They have had it good for so long and I am here threatening that paradigm. Especially feminists. The older ones have worked so hard to make progress as they should have. But there is a new strain of feminism and it ain't pretty.

 

As well-intentioned as my posts may be, if I were in your shoes I would probably feel the same way! That's right, I would. I might even come on here and rant against your posts trying to convince myself and others that these statements are "venting" and "bitter" or whatever adjective du jour you prefer.

 

But a man needs only three things to decide whether my posts make sense:

 

- A calm rational mind: When one puts aside emotions and reads through all the rhetoric, the underlying message is clear; Marriage is a contract that is deeply flawed and biased against men. Why would anyone sign a contract in which the terms of the deal will only be divulged if the contract is broken? That would NEVER fly in the business world and any man or woman would be a complete moron to sign such a contract. Yet we do it by the millions a year. I did it too - so add me to the list of morons. I am just here now to point out the scam. My moral values compel me to do so... and while it may seem that I am alone here, I am one of millions. Be calm and put aside the emotions men.

 

- Critical thinking skills: This is tricky. We are bombarded by messages. Which one is right? Why would a man come on here trying to tell other men to avoid marriage at all costs? What would be my motivation for wasting my valuable time here online in what is essentially a woman's forum? On the other hand, what might be the motivation of women to make me look as bad as possible? Ask yourself those questions. If you want to solve a crime (or anything in the past) they say you should "follow the money" if you want to predict the future I say you should "follow the incentives" Why would women want to viciously protect the institution of marriage and all the divorce laws that come along with it? Why? Remember men, when you sign a "marriage license" (sounds cute doesn't it?) you are signing off on the terms of a divorce decree whether you know it or not. That document is non-negotiable. DO NOT let anyone tell you otherwise. Get a divorce lawyer before you get married and ask - Don't take my word for it!

 

- A computer: Seek out other voices and opinions. If you think my words sound angry or bitter, do a search for divorced men, marriage related content, divorce related content, legal stuff, marriage contract stuff. You will see plenty out there. There are also places where women do not often go so you will be safe to be open and honest there without this bullying sort of behavior. I smile at this sort of pathetic whining and squealing. It is predictable and understandable - women have a lot to lose with this one. But if you find it distasteful or distracting, then go and look around. Men are waking up and talking to each other in ways that they never did before. And they do this in calm supportive tones and offer sound rational advice without the sort of playground name calling you are seeing here. There is a lot of good advice out there....look for it - search for MGTOW, MRM, men's rights.

 

To the men reading this - remember that I tried my best to warn you. If my tone and intensity have taken away from my message then I have not done you justice and I will work on that. But more important than my words - read the female responses to my posts very VERY carefully. Pay attention to the tone and the nature of the response. Then balance that with the nature of what I am telling you. You can make up your own mind.

 

I know that many of you will side with the women on this. You have been programmed to do so. But remember my words here today. Do the same thing that I am doing when you wake up to all of this. We (other understanding older men) will be here waiting and with a cold beer and a welcoming brotherly smile. There are millions of us. Look around, you will find us if you need us.

 

Good luck men. The tide is turning finally.

[strongnrelaxed]

One guy and it's debunked. There are tons and tons of articles out there about this, do your research!!!! It is a proven fact.

 

 

I don't think it's rare at all. Perhaps men get a bad deal because they were a bad husband.

 

I will leave the research to those who read this.

 

Question: Why in the world would someone do a study to promote the idea that marriage makes a man healthier?

 

Let that sit for a minute. Imagine someone doing a study that said "Despite your common sense, intuition and years worth of data, a new study concludes that cigarette smoke is actually GOOD for you!"

 

That would sound completely ludicrous to me. Perhaps not to you.

 

I am skeptical whenever someone tries to sell me an idea that flies in the face of my own lifetime of experience.

 

There are many, many reasons why these studies are flawed. I am a researcher in both qualitative and quantitative methods and I know better. Most people are not.

 

All I need to do is cast doubt and call BS and men can do their own research.

 

All they need to ask is "Why are they trying to sell this 'marriage is healthy" thing to me?"

[strongnrelaxed]

Telling people that what they believe in is stupid does not fall into the realm of "venting." This poster does it about religion as well.

 

It's not a "gender" issue. It's a disrespect and ignorance issue.

 

Please show me exactly where this terrible screwing over is described. I just re-read the thread about the 100% garnishment for child support, which I don't believe is possible - but that is not about getting screwed over by marriage or by women.

 

Agreed - this is not necessarily a gender issue. I just read somewhere else here on LS that already there are patterns emerging in gay marriages and divorces! Wow! I was actually shocked to see that.

 

Interestingly, the same pattern holds true in gay marriages. Gay men are staying together and lesbians are splitting more often.

 

Read this statement twice or three times until it sinks in.

 

 

In all fairness I have not verified this. I have been lax with my research here because facts are irrelevant in a forum like this. It is all about passion.

 

But facts do matter to me, so I will look this up.

 

We know that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. I wonder how many marriages are initiated by women?

 

How telling would it be to find out that a certain percentage of men felt pressured to get married or given an ultimatum to get married against their instincts, only to find out that women ALSO initiate the overwhelming majority of divorces.

 

Now THAT would be one hell of a statistical comparison. And just in case the subtext is not clear here, imagine this: If we were to find out that a) women push men hard into marriage against their instincts in large numbers. b) women initiate the majority of divorces (which we already know to be true), and c) The divorce laws are extremely biased against men and essentially turn them into wage slaves (which we already know to be true) - wouldn't that be something?

 

Men - look this up on your own. I would be interested to find out what that first stat looks like. Even if anecdotal.

[Woggle]

Telling people that what they believe in is stupid does not fall into the realm of "venting." This poster does it about religion as well.

 

It's not a "gender" issue. It's a disrespect and ignorance issue.

 

Please show me exactly where this terrible screwing over is described. I just re-read the thread about the 100% garnishment for child support, which I don't believe is possible - but that is not about getting screwed over by marriage or by women.

 

Apparently she was the typical walkaway wife which seems like an epidemic these days and when a woman you thought loved you drops that bomb on a man it is really a shock to the system.

 

Look at the walkaway wives, the courts, the fact that many married seem to be unhappy and completely unattracted to their husbands and you understand why some men think only a fool would enter into a contract like this. There are some men who see marriage is playing Russian Roulette with their lives and while I am not that extreme you look at the state of marriage these days and you can't blame them.

[hardlybreathing]

I am skeptical whenever someone tries to sell me an idea that flies in the face of my own lifetime of experience.

 

Ditto!!

 

All I need to do is cast doubt and call BS and men can do their own research.

 

 

 

And that's how lies become truths to people.

[Got it]

I will leave the research to those who read this.

 

Question: Why in the world would someone do a study to promote the idea that marriage makes a man healthier?

 

Let that sit for a minute. Imagine someone doing a study that said "Despite your common sense, intuition and years worth of data, a new study concludes that cigarette smoke is actually GOOD for you!"

 

That would sound completely ludicrous to me. Perhaps not to you.

 

I am skeptical whenever someone tries to sell me an idea that flies in the face of my own lifetime of experience.

 

There are many, many reasons why these studies are flawed. I am a researcher in both qualitative and quantitative methods and I know better. Most people are not.

 

All I need to do is cast doubt and call BS and men can do their own research.

 

All they need to ask is "Why are they trying to sell this 'marriage is healthy" thing to me?"

 

Actually one of the studies was a study on men's health and the findings were a secondary find in regards to that. They studied men's health, heart disease, depression, etc. on men married and men divorced. The study pretty conclusively found that men's health and state of mind is better married than divorced.

 

There was another study studying both men and women married and divorced and their physical and mental wellness.

[Got it]

Agreed - this is not necessarily a gender issue. I just read somewhere else here on LS that already there are patterns emerging in gay marriages and divorces! Wow! I was actually shocked to see that.

 

Interestingly, the same pattern holds true in gay marriages. Gay men are staying together and lesbians are splitting more often.

 

Read this statement twice or three times until it sinks in.

 

 

In all fairness I have not verified this. I have been lax with my research here because facts are irrelevant in a forum like this. It is all about passion.

 

But facts do matter to me, so I will look this up.

 

We know that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. I wonder how many marriages are initiated by women?

 

How telling would it be to find out that a certain percentage of men felt pressured to get married or given an ultimatum to get married against their instincts, only to find out that women ALSO initiate the overwhelming majority of divorces.

 

Now THAT would be one hell of a statistical comparison. And just in case the subtext is not clear here, imagine this: If we were to find out that a) women push men hard into marriage against their instincts in large numbers. b) women initiate the majority of divorces (which we already know to be true), and c) The divorce laws are extremely biased against men and essentially turn them into wage slaves (which we already know to be true) - wouldn't that be something?

 

Men - look this up on your own. I would be interested to find out what that first stat looks like. Even if anecdotal.

 

Exactly how are women "pushing men hard into marriage against their instincts"? What collateral are the women using to force that issue? The only thing I could think of is ending the relationship but that doesn't seem like it would be weighty enough. So what is being used? Is it women or are you arguing a larger societal pressure to marry? My one agreement with that is I think decades back there WAS a large push for marriage as sex outside of marriage was so largely opposed. So to have sex easily a man had to marry. Since nonmarital sex is not a huge opposition, what is pushing men to marry then?

 

In regards to divorce, it is remiss and foolish for either sex to marry without a prenup. Period. You are going into a binding financial contract with someone and if would not have a business partner in a new business without a contract why would you enter marriage without one either? The prenup can spell things out fairly well to make sure that distribution of assets is fair and any children are fairly taken care of.

 

I would also argue to make sure to have an agreement that both parties are earning an equal income or, more so, have the woman being the main breadwinner and then the man can receive alimony.

 

You have the ability to turn the tables if you so choose.