Janesays Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Why is it unattractive to bring up? Why is rude to state an obvious fact? Because honesty is just so very awful? If he is attracted to her, he should sleep with her. I really, really don't like the idea that he isn't JUST because of me. Because that line of thinking could easily evaporate with a few drinks, or during a fight, or if he needs a little ego boost... No, my exes did not cheat on previous girlfriends or girlfriends after me. Just me. You keep talking about this other girl like she's just a vapid hole with no choice in the matter. Have you consider that SHE might not want to sleep with HIM unless he dumps you? Or maybe she wouldn't want to sleep with him no matter what? There is a 3rd party here: Other women. And most other women don't want to sex a guy up who is committed to another. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Based on how you know him, how do you think he is going to respond to that? He'll probably deny it. He is a moralist and a romantic at heart... To play armchair psychologist, he really wants to be an individual and hates being grouped or labeled anything, and he gets annoyed if he is being grouped in with people, even if there's a perfectly legitimate reason for him to be included as part of the group. I think he badly wants to see himself as "above" common male urges, and associates wanting to have sex with someone else as something "bad" to the point where he can't admit that's what he wants, because in his mind it makes him a bad person. I also find that guys overall seem kind of ashamed about the idea of open relationships. When I found out my last ex was sex-chatting another girl, I suggested (quite earnestly) an open relationship. He said it was just too complicated, too uncouthe, he didn't want that. He turned it down... and was cheating on me a month later. It's like if he cheated, he could PRETEND he was really monogamous. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bristolius Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 You keep talking about this other girl like she's just a vapid hole with no choice in the matter. Have you consider that SHE might not want to sleep with HIM unless he dumps you? Or maybe she wouldn't want to sleep with him no matter what? There is a 3rd party here: Other women. And most other women don't want to sex a guy up who is committed to another. Yeah Verhrzn, will you console him when desirable women turn him down? Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 He'll probably deny it. He is a moralist and a romantic at heart... To play armchair psychologist, he really wants to be an individual and hates being grouped or labeled anything, and he gets annoyed if he is being grouped in with people, even if there's a perfectly legitimate reason for him to be included as part of the group. I think he badly wants to see himself as "above" common male urges, and associates wanting to have sex with someone else as something "bad" to the point where he can't admit that's what he wants, because in his mind it makes him a bad person. I also find that guys overall seem kind of ashamed about the idea of open relationships. When I found out my last ex was sex-chatting another girl, I suggested (quite earnestly) an open relationship. He said it was just too complicated, too uncouthe, he didn't want that. He turned it down... and was cheating on me a month later. It's like if he cheated, he could PRETEND he was really monogamous. So, basically you are going to suggest this even though you know that he is opposed to the idea? What kind of situation do you expect that will create? Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 You keep talking about this other girl like she's just a vapid hole with no choice in the matter. Have you consider that SHE might not want to sleep with HIM unless he dumps you? Or maybe she wouldn't want to sleep with him no matter what? There is a 3rd party here: Other women. And most other women don't want to sex a guy up who is committed to another. Uhhh I don't think I'd jump so far as to say "most other women." I hate to reinforce LS-Loser mentalities, but it IS a stereotype with some evidence behind it that men become more attractive if they are in a relationship. Mate-poaching is pretty darn common... and you have only to glance at the "Other Woman/Man" forum to see that most of them are women. Seems there are plenty of women willing to step into the middle. My guy is smart, funny, and attractive. Why wouldn't she want him? Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 So, basically you are going to suggest this even though you know that he is opposed to the idea? What kind of situation do you expect that will create? Perhaps open communication? I suppose I could just shut up and let it fester; that seems like a better idea?? Or not bring it up because I assume I know the answer and will make the decision for him? Or just sit here demurely while he gets bored/desires other women/cheats? Link to post Share on other sites
Janesays Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Uhhh I don't think I'd jump so far as to say "most other women." I hate to reinforce LS-Loser mentalities, but it IS a stereotype with some evidence behind it that men become more attractive if they are in a relationship. Mate-poaching is pretty darn common... and you have only to glance at the "Other Woman/Man" forum to see that most of them are women. Seems there are plenty of women willing to step into the middle. My guy is smart, funny, and attractive. Why wouldn't she want him? Because if he is committed to you, she doesn't really "have" him. And the mate poaching is exactly my point. What if she wants him, but only if he breaks up with you? THAT'S poaching a mate, my dear. It's not just being the willing hole while some guy goes home to you every night. Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Because if he is committed to you, she doesn't really "have" him. And the mate poaching is exactly my point. What if she wants him, but only if he breaks up with you? THAT'S poaching a mate, my dear. It's not just being the willing hole while some guy goes home to you every night. Then perhaps he'll go to someone else who is willing to just sleep around. She is not the only other woman on the planet. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Uhhh I don't think I'd jump so far as to say "most other women." I hate to reinforce LS-Loser mentalities, but it IS a stereotype with some evidence behind it that men become more attractive if they are in a relationship. Mate-poaching is pretty darn common... and you have only to glance at the "Other Woman/Man" forum to see that most of them are women. Seems there are plenty of women willing to step into the middle. My guy is smart, funny, and attractive. Why wouldn't she want him? I don't think you want to use the OW forum to make your point. Nearly all those women want the guy to dump the primary partner for them. They only step into the middle because they believe the guy is going to leave the spouse (often he intentionally gives them that impression). Link to post Share on other sites
Janesays Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Then perhaps he'll go to someone else who is willing to just sleep around. She is not the only other woman on the planet. Why would he do that? What if he can't find another woman as hot as her? I mean, wouldn't he rather just dump you to sleep with the hotter girl? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Then perhaps he'll go to someone else who is willing to just sleep around. She is not the only other woman on the planet. There are always prostitutes.... Speaking of which, have you read Leigh87s posts on the subject of non-monogamy? She sounded a lot like you in the past, but has changed her tune as she learned to trust her bf. It might be an interesting read for you. Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Perhaps open communication? I suppose I could just shut up and let it fester; that seems like a better idea?? Or not bring it up because I assume I know the answer and will make the decision for him? Or just sit here demurely while he gets bored/desires other women/cheats? Where have I suggested that you shut up? I am asking because with the way your present it, it sounded as if you were very intent on setting up this agreement, but at the same time not having him on board. At the same time, if he is not willing to be in an open relationship, it would beg the question of what other strategy you would take to address the core issues you are concerned with. Whether you want to frame it as 'denial' or not, there are men who don't want that kind of arrangement. Some years back, I offered the same to my H. No way in hell was he having anything like it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Where have I suggested that you shut up? I am asking because with the way your present it, it sounded as if you were very intent on setting up this agreement, but at the same time not having him on board. At the same time, if he is not willing to be in an open relationship, it would beg the question of what other strategy you would take to address the core issues you are concerned with. Whether you want to frame it as 'denial' or not, there are men who don't want that kind of arrangement. Some years back, I offered the same to my H. No way in hell was he having anything like it. And why was he having nothing like it? Link to post Share on other sites
denise_xo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) And why was he having nothing like it? Because it doesn't correlate with his values at all, and he was repulsed by the idea of having sex with more than one woman. He wants to be in a monogamous relationship where sex is kept within the boundaries of that relationship. The suggestion offended him (as would a suggestion that his opinion was a result of 'denial'). And this comes from a man who is from a culture where it's actually possible to have more than one wife. Edited September 12, 2012 by denise_xo Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 V., cheating aside, is there any reason you would prefer an open relationship to a monogamous one? Because if the only reason you are considering and open relationship is to prevent being cheated on......he can still cheat on you in an open relationship. In fact, in some ways, it opens doors to cheating--getting intimately close to other women. Emotional attachment can easily follow. It is possible for him to leave you for her....and then be monogamous to her, because she insisted. That would suck. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
oaks Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Yes it's worth it. (are there really 8 pages on this simple answer? Or is it a train wreck? I didn't read.) 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 V., cheating aside, is there any reason you would prefer an open relationship to a monogamous one? Because if the only reason you are considering and open relationship is to prevent being cheated on......he can still cheat on you in an open relationship. In fact, in some ways, it opens doors to cheating--getting intimately close to other women. Emotional attachment can easily follow. It is possible for him to leave you for her....and then be monogamous to her, because she insisted. That would suck. Well, then, I guess I just freaking give up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well, then, I guess I just freaking give up. There is always a risk, V. The best any of us can do is get better at judging character, get better at choosing partners, get better at communicating within relationships, and trust wisely. There is no loophole to reaping the rewards without the risks! Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 There is always a risk, V. The best any of us can do is get better at judging character, get better at choosing partners, get better at communicating within relationships, and trust wisely. There is no loophole to reaping the rewards without the risks! In other words: give up. Link to post Share on other sites
suladas Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 In other words: give up. No that's not what they are saying. They are saying learn from past relationships the good and the bad and use it to make future relationships better. Link to post Share on other sites
Janesays Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 In other words: give up. Give up, smarten up, whatever you want to call it. *waits for the oncoming pity party 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 In other words: give up. You could, for now, or forever. Your distrust is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You could always try again when you feel more prepared to trust. Link to post Share on other sites
oaks Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well, then, I guess I just freaking give up. You already have something. Why throw it away? Is it so that you can say that you were the one who ended it? What would that say about your ego, that you would end a good thing just to have the power of having ended it? Hang on in there, V! Link to post Share on other sites
Author verhrzn Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 You could, for now, or forever. Your distrust is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You could always try again when you feel more prepared to trust. Why the heck would I feel more prepared to trust? My past experiences prove that trust is a very, very bad idea. I trusted those guys-it totally worked out for me! Geez, I try to do something logical and practical to protect myself and the relationship, and you guys just gotta bat it down. I really don't know what to do anymore. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Janesays Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Why the heck would I feel more prepared to trust? My past experiences prove that trust is a very, very bad idea. I trusted those guys-it totally worked out for me! Geez, I try to do something logical and practical to protect myself and the relationship, and you guys just gotta bat it down. I really don't know what to do anymore. Because it was illogical, silly, ridiculous and most importantly: wouldn't work. Come up with something we can work with! Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts