M30USA Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I've come to understand a profound truth in life based on what the Scripture says. Death is a paradox. Somehow death, which happens to everyone, can be both a punishment and a reward. It's a punishment for the wicked because it signifies an end to their ways of self-promotion, self-glorification, and self-gratification; death is the true end of the the self. Yet for the righteous, it's actually a reward because the righteous all along are trying to live a life where they deny the self and they long for a world where their spirit is no longer at war with their fleshly wants. The righteous, in death, will finally be able to please God and not be bound by the worldly system of sin and rebellion towards God. The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. (Isaiah 57:1) Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I've come to understand a profound truth in life based on what the Scripture says. Death is a paradox. Somehow death, which happens to everyone, can be both a punishment and a reward. It's a punishment for the wicked because it signifies an end to their ways of self-promotion, self-glorification, and self-gratification; death is the true end of the the self. Yet for the righteous, it's actually a reward because the righteous all along are trying to live a life where they deny the self and they long for a world where their spirit is no longer at war with their fleshly wants. The righteous, in death, will finally be able to please God and not be bound by the worldly system of sin and rebellion towards God. The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. (Isaiah 57:1) Thanks for posting this, as I really needed to read this. In bold, this is where I'm falling VERY short. I let the world get to me and the things going on in it, that I loose sight of this fact. It's interesting how God works and how He uses various things to get us back on track, those little reminders...I wasn't going to check this section tonight... God Bless Brother:) Link to post Share on other sites
madjac74 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 What if our fleshly desires are to be here for our kids, take care of them and watch them grow? If that makes me wicked then Amen! I don't want to accept death so I can be with "God" and I'm sure my kids prefer me here as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 What if our fleshly desires are to be here for our kids, take care of them and watch them grow? If that makes me wicked then Amen! I don't want to accept death so I can be with "God" and I'm sure my kids prefer me here as well. Paul instructed us to take care of our families and spouses. What I'm referring to by "fleshly wants" is anything that refers to self-gain, especially at the expense of Gods Kingdom. The problem is that the human heart is radically depraved to the point where we don't even see that the majority of our life is spent on fulfilling our own desires. The only person to ever NOT do this was Jesus. Everyone else fails. But what I'm saying is that when "the old order of things has passed away" God will give us a new heart, he will trample sin, and we will be freed from the war within. Link to post Share on other sites
strongnrelaxed Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I am an Atheist, but this is a profound passage (quote?). I agree that the more we can master our basic desires, the more enlightened and happier we will be - and the better off society will be as a whole. The challenge is that this is really hard for the vast majority of people. Forgive me if I sound pessimistic, but it doesn't seem to be getting any better. These are the sentiments that I miss from my years as a Catholic. The good news for me is that there are outlets. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Yeah, all of humanity is so awful and irredeemably depraved. What a fantastic, empowering message. We should listen to more of what you have to say. Yes, because the Bible tells us that God has provided a way out for us in the name of Jesus Christ. So this introduces yet another paradox: the Bible is both incredibly pessimistic and optimistic. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Originally Posted by M30USA Yes, because the Bible tells us that God has provided a way out for us in the name of Jesus Christ. Well obviously.... if the Bible tells you this, then of course it must be true. the Bible is both incredibly pessimistic and optimistic. Whereas Buddhism, misunderstood by many to be 'pessimistic' is actually completely optimistic. The wonderful thing about Buddhism is that - much as Christianity used to openly preach - there is redemption in re-birth. There is no reliance on an outside source of redemption, and we don't have to wait until death to see whether we go 'left' or Right'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Well obviously.... if the Bible tells you this, then of course it must be true. Whereas Buddhism, misunderstood by many to be 'pessimistic' is actually completely optimistic. The wonderful thing about Buddhism is that - much as Christianity used to openly preach - there is redemption in re-birth. There is no reliance on an outside source of redemption, and we don't have to wait until death to see whether we go 'left' or Right'. This is why, at least conceptually, Buddhism and all other world religions do not fit reality. Reality is very complex and seemingly contradictory. Christianity takes this into account. One minute Christianity is ridiculed for being fantastical, "too good to be true", and the product of wishful thinking. The next minute it is ridiculed for the exact opposite reasons: it's "too hard" to follow and it's deathly pessimistic. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 What you fail to understand is that Buddhism is unique in that there is no God figure, at all. There is no God. This is how Buddhism differs from all other religions. We bring it home, we don't put it into a book. We fit 'reality' a lot more than any other religion, because we start from zero. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
venusianx13 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 What you fail to understand is that Buddhism is unique in that there is no God figure, at all. There is no God. This is how Buddhism differs from all other religions. We bring it home, we don't put it into a book. We fit 'reality' a lot more than any other religion, because we start from zero. At least to me, as a Buddhist, it's not to say that there are indeed forces at play, higher powers, so to speak, but there is no concept of a creator in Buddhism. Link to post Share on other sites
venusianx13 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Well obviously.... if the Bible tells you this, then of course it must be true. Whereas Buddhism, misunderstood by many to be 'pessimistic' is actually completely optimistic. The wonderful thing about Buddhism is that - much as Christianity used to openly preach - there is redemption in re-birth. There is no reliance on an outside source of redemption, and we don't have to wait until death to see whether we go 'left' or Right'. The thing I love about Buddhism is that there is no denying that we are the authors of our own fate! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 To clarify: As Buddhists, we can believe that, but it's not a "rigorous" Buddhist concept, and as we understand that it's unprovable and 'unconjecturable' we don't get too knotted up about it, or anal with insistence....we can be comfortable with that line of reasoning, but it varies from Buddhist to Buddhist.... Does that make more sense, venusianx13....? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
venusianx13 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 To clarify: As Buddhists, we can believe that, but it's not a "rigorous" Buddhist concept, and as we understand that it's unprovable and 'unconjecturable' we don't get too knotted up about it, or anal with insistence....we can be comfortable with that line of reasoning, but it varies from Buddhist to Buddhist.... Does that make more sense, venusianx13....? Of course, I was just applying a disclaimer for those who might not understand. It certainly varies, though, and for anyone who might be curious, it's something that Buddhists generally don't debate about. No reason to. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hawaii50 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I've come to understand a profound truth in life based on what the Scripture says. Death is a paradox. Somehow death, which happens to everyone, can be both a punishment and a reward. It's a punishment for the wicked because it signifies an end to their ways of self-promotion, self-glorification, and self-gratification; death is the true end of the the self. Yet for the righteous, it's actually a reward because the righteous all along are trying to live a life where they deny the self and they long for a world where their spirit is no longer at war with their fleshly wants. The righteous, in death, will finally be able to please God and not be bound by the worldly system of sin and rebellion towards God. The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. (Isaiah 57:1) Yay, graphic novels! Link to post Share on other sites
yessy21 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Do you guys bielieve that we will all come back eventually? in another 'vessel' but with the same personality and qualities? our human bodies are made of things that come from the galaxy to my understanding. the galaxy is so broad that what if we are alive in another one? so many questions... not enough answers Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Do you guys bielieve that we will all come back eventually? in another 'vessel' but with the same personality and qualities? If by "You guys" you mean Buddhists, speaking from a purely personal objective, I would say 'No'. I could discuss rebirth in detail, but it's not for this thread. our human bodies are made of things that come from the galaxy to my understanding. the galaxy is so broad that what if we are alive in another one? so many questions... not enough answers What... you mean a 'parallel universe'...? My instinct would be to discount that notion, but I'm open-minded enough to know that as the entire universe seems to have absolutely no limits in any direction whatsoever (which is already a concept that 'boggles' my mind) I cannot in all fairness say it's impossible. but I'm inclined to believe I'm here, and I'm it. There may well be other worlds, other inhabitants, but I don't think parallel universes are reality. Star Trek, maybe, Stargate Atlantis, interesting concept... but actually? Mmmmm.... Nope. Link to post Share on other sites
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