OW or WH telling you the truth??

[mercy]

How do I pm you?

 

Click on your name. You'll see send a pm. After 9 central time. Ok?

[wanting more]

Click on your name. You'll see send a pm. After 9 central time. Ok?

 

On. Thank you

[wanting more]

Wantingmore just remember your "truth" is not "the" truth.

Ex OW sent an apology "draft" to H for his approval! He showed it to me and I said ignore it which he did. It was insulting. Also insulting she sought his approval. And insulting she didn't just send it to me. And the content was insulting. She put it out there like this is the story (telling me the truth I guess she thought) but the whole tone was justifying herself. I dont give a damn wrist she had these feelings and says tried to conquer them- give me all the objective evidence (actual emails, gifts whatever) and then just take it that she did wrong by me, by my children and by her husband. It actually galled me that he got no mention.

 

I've come to see she was probably like you actually trying to tell her story thinking that's what would benefit me. But she missed the point- after sticking a knife in my back for months she wasn't going to be believed. Hard cold evidence fine. Narrative from the OW is very unlikely to have a suitable tone of utter horror and remorse.

 

 

I am not story telling. I am in NO contact with xMM. I don't expect her to forgive me. Nor an I trying to hurt her more. Ive asked for opinions on this board to try to figure out what I should do without hurting her more.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Jade if the OW in your situation wasn't telling you anything new, there may not have been much point to her contacting you, especially by sending it to your WH. Just that shows she didn't have your best interests at heart. I think the OP is really trying to do the right thing and deliver the truth when there are lies being told.

[wanting more]

If you want to pm me later tonight I'll help you with the letter.

 

Whether I believed what she said or not, I would want to hear what her side was. I also have the need for face to face conversations(not good for everyone) so that I can look at eyes, body language and watch for other signs.

 

 

I've thought about if she'd ask to do that. Would I want to. No. But I know I'd owe it to her. And also I deserve what I'd get from her

[seren]

TBH, I wouldn't want a letter or emails or copies of messages to just land on my doorstep when I was reconciling. I had that from H's OW, months after we were working on us. I had the truth of the A, the nature of it, the NC, the where and when's, what I didn't want, need or ask for, were the contents of sex texts or the ramblings of OW or H. They weren't relevant, what was relevant was that I knew there had been an A, I knew what I wanted and needed to know and I made my decision based upon the facts, yes from OW and H in the early days after D Day. The decision by the OW to send me letters and text messages etc was not done to 'help me', certainly not done to help H and I reconcile our marriage. It was done through spite and I would be wary if I was an OW of my actions being misconstrued.

 

If the BS wants answers I am assuming she knows where you are and how to contact you. Personally, I would leave it up to her. Their marriage is their marriage and is their business. Leave them to it.

 

On a different note, I am glad you are approaching this differently, you have certainly had a complete change from a few weeks ago and I am glad for you. Having been on the other end of a pile of letters and such arriving on my doorstep months after, I would advise that their marriage, their problem. I hope you continue to heal.

[seren]

Thanks for the correction, if that is indeed the case and the BS has been contacting lately, then I would say that a message asking what she wants to know may be the way to go. I don't think it should be the case if contact has now ended as it suggests BS has moved along. BUT, if she is still asking then I would ask what exactly she wants. I would also hope the BS then leaves the XOW to heal in her own time too.

 

Apologies if I have this wrong.

[wanting more]

Obviously I have been unclear. I'll try again. It's not just about Hs OW, though that is a good example.

 

What I'm trying to say is that there is almost no reason a BS would believe an Ow or her motives or her "truth". Both APs are proven liars by definition. Why believe either?

 

LadyGrey was exceptional in that she met face to face and that makes it easier to judge. Also it sounds like her MM was a bit pathological generally.

 

So in terms of your letter to her my advice is no narrative, just evidence that's objective like emails or whatever. And all apology, no buts. There are no buts. You did a terrible thing and what he did or did not do is completely irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

That's what Im doing. That's why I haven't sent it yet. My 1st one was for my own validation and making him pay. It said lots of our "3 year story" but I know it is not something I need to put in there, and I also know it was a bullshi* lie for him and I. The more I read here and her emails to me I know it's about what I did to her and accepting my responsibility in it. My email now to her is my apology. No buts because there aren't any. It's copies of emails and dates and places that I know she can check credit card receipts. It's also lots of family things they've gone thru. Not anything about her because he never said anything about her, nothing. The family things are just because he told her I forced him to talk to me about sex. My point in saying that is that he was with me, not just sexual. He shared lots of things with me. I guess just to show he wanted to be in this A as much as I did. She's said many Times how he told her I forced him to continue contact. Im Just trying to let her see I didn't. He stayed because he wanted to. But once again I don't know that it matters. or am I still crossing a line

[wanting more]

The BS has sent text messages, the OP has repeatedly stated to us that she can't believe how naive the BS is:rolleyes: and the BS even called her and the OP refused to pick up the phone.

 

The OP wanted to wait to see if MM would call her to give her a heads up as to what he told her. The OP thought he was going to do what he did with the first Dday . . . get their stories straight.

 

She calls the BS naive, but refuses to sent all the information the BS would need to assess the situation.

 

 

When I said naive I was talking about the lies of me giving him scripts from a book and asking him to sext them to me. I did NOT refuse to pick up the phone, I said I missed the call though I don't know if I'd have answered anyway.

I think and I'll go back and read that I figured he would call and suck up but it wasn't happening this time. I had done it before but was not going to lie again for him.

[wanting more]

And I rest my case.

 

My whole point to this thread was to try and make sure Im not the vengeful OW. Obviously this needs to come out of my email.

[DBella]

I do have an email (actually I've probably typed and retyped and typed again ) because the 1st one did start out with stories about "our" love. As I read it I realized how stupid I looked and took that out. I also knew I looked vengeful against her which is NOT what I want. The last one is my apology and facts. Ive thought of posting it on here, not for anyone's approval but because you are BWs and BHs I want to know I don't sound like this crazy horrible bi*ch just out for vengeance and trying to hurt her more. Does that make sense??

 

It depends. If he's done with you, it will definitely look like you are instigating because you don't wanna see them together. If you are still messing with him, then yes, she should be aware of the fact that he's playing her.

 

In my case, I tried to contact the AP via email at the very beginning of their A and she never had the balls to reply to me. Now that he dumped her for good and we are in the process of fixing our marriage, I would not even want to know she is alive. A sincere apology would be the right thing to do after all the pain my kids and I went through, but her apologizing to me would be like expecting her to have some decency or sympathy which I think she doesn't have at all. At this point, I wouldn't care to know anything about their sex encounters or if he ever sweet talked her. He lied. I'm well aware of that. He admitted he lied very often, he felt bad, apologized, begged me to forgive him, and asked for another chance. I decided to forgive him and leave everything in the past. Anybody bringing up the A subject again, would be beating a dead horse.

[wanting more]

Hit the "Forward" button

Type in BS's email address

Press send

Repeat

 

You say you're sorry and then hit send until all the evidence is forwarded.

It ain't rocket science.

 

Unless you're stalling.

 

 

 

It may be hard to understand that I also feel they've been together for so long and she wants the M to work that I have no right to destroy that even more. If I send her this it does prove (even taking out certain parts which you've pointed out to me ). That we've been in this A for 3 years. I know I'm destroying her life. Maybe it's better she does blame me. I am hurt by him, I did believe his lies. I also don't have the rest of my life to deal with his lies. One day he'll be out of my mind. Not her completely because of what I've done to her. I'm needing to apologize and I do accept my part in this A and the hurt Ive caused. But I DONT want to hurt her more. Maybe that's why Im stalling. Time will pass and I'll be too late to send it

[DBella]

Im not looking to hurt her more in a vengeful way.

 

Then get out of the picture for good. You already caused enough pain to that family. Stop being their nightmare. Leave them alone and don't contact them ever again. Whatever truth you feel you need to tell is not going to make anybody feel better at this point.

[AnotherRound]

Since the BW obviously knows how to contact you, I would NEVER send unsolicited information. Simply bc I think it would sound like you were trying to rub salt in the wound. If me exMMs stbxw contacted me now, I am not sure I would provide her with any information. Not to protect exMM, but bc I feel like her window for that closed long ago when she refused to say anything to me on the phone when I said, "whatever you ask, I will answer you honestly." And now that I've removed myself from the relationship, and haven't been in relationship with him for over a year and a half, I don't feel that she has the right to step in NOW when I am healed and moved on from it.

 

Now, if she contacted me and asked me about him contacting me NOW, that's a different story. I would answer those questions, bc that is relevant to now.

 

I would ask her specifically what she wants/needs to know. If she wants details, give them, but know that they are going to hurt her, and she may regret getting them, and then hold that against you too. I think anything unsolicited, anything at all, will seem like a jab at her, bc it IS going to hurt her, whether she thinks so or not.

 

I would be interested in seeing the email, but understand if you don't feel comfortable sharing it here. But if it was me, I would answer ONLY what she wants to know specifically, bc that shows what she is "ready" to hear. Anything beyond that has the potential to be a dagger. And imo, if the BS wants to reconcile, and not have all the info, that is their choice, not mine to make for them. Just my 2 cents... Good luck.

[AnotherRound]

Okay. It was a three year affair.

Would it have been better if it were 1.5 years?

 

The BS is most likely going to pity you for wasting three years of your life and believing it more than what is was.

 

She's a big girl. Send her the info.

 

I disagree with this Alice. It seems like you are "big girl" and handling your Hs A head on, but not everyone is ready for, or able to, do so. I also think that saying that the OW wasted 3 years of her life and believing it more than what it was is somewhat unnecessary to say here.

 

I hope that what you are saying is that the wife has asked for information, so you believe it should be provided. Has the wife asked for specific information? What information, specifically, would you provide? Dates? Places? Details? If details, which details? Sexual positions? I mean, what is relevant here. What does the wife need/want to know for her own healing? Anything beyond that, imo, will be extremely hurtful, and absolutely unnecessary.

[AnotherRound]

wanting more.......how about this. Start with sending her an apology, a nice sincere apology if that is what you are really feeling. Tell her you are sorry for lying/covering up for him before. Tell her that you know you can't make it right but you do have proof of how long the affair was, etc and tell her that you'd like her to have this information so she can base her decisions not just on what he is telling her.

 

If you hear from her, send it and say I will clarify if you want me to but I need to protect myself and it's a one time thing.

 

If you don't hear from her, then assume she does not want to talk to you in any way.

 

Either way, you will have said your apology and you've opened the door for her to get information. If she doesn't want it.........it's still alright.

 

 

Then step back and concentrate on yourself. You've got to let both of them go.

 

Perfect. This way, the wife gets exactly the info that she wants/needs, and nothing more that is just going to hurt her unnecessarily. Totally agree, absolutely perfect, imo.

[AnotherRound]

Unnecessary?

 

This is exactly what the BS will be thinking!!!

However, the OP seems to under the mistaken impression that the emails will prove her husband was in love with her - she implies it in this thread and her other threads.

 

MM who throw OW under the bus the way she was thrown????

The BS is fully aware it ain't love, especially when they do that. So don't worry about that OP.

 

Those emails will show the BS how much of a liar he is and that he will say anything for sex. THAT is what she will be thinking about - not be devastated at the thought of them being in love. The evidence will show just how effed up a husband she has.

 

I must have missed something in the thread then. I didn't see where he threw her under the bus, I will have to go re-read it. I'm not sure that any 3 year A can be said to have "no love" involved. Men can't compartmentalize sex and love as well as some would like to believe, imo. I think that if he is being intimate with someone that long, then he HAS developed some sort of feelings/love for her, it would be damn near impossible not to have.

 

I understood that he is making the choice to stay with his wife. That fact and him loving FOW are not mutually exclusive in my view.

 

I will go back and re-read at another date. I apologize if I was incorrect about your statement being unnecessary.

[AnotherRound]

Men like the OP's MM can compartmentalize and they don't care at all about the BS or the OW. That why when the **** hit the fan, he threw her under with both hands in order to save his own azz.

 

As much as some OW would like to convince themselves . . . that isn't love in any way, shape or form.

 

 

This. It sounds VERY passively aggressive towards OWs. Can you tell me how he threw her under the bus, as I can't look it up right now. Maybe then it would make sense why you continue to attempt to convince the OP that her exMM never loved her? Or, is it that you are still struggling with the fact that your WH may have loved his AP?

 

I think that sometimes you offer good advice... when it's not sprinkled with jabs like this, imo. What am I missing in this story that leads you to believe that after 3 years of being intimate that the exMM never loved OP?

[wanting more]

Unnecessary?

 

This is exactly what the BS will be thinking!!!

I said it because the OP seems to be under the mistaken impression that the emails will prove her husband was in love with her - she implies it in this thread and her other threads.

 

MM who throw OW under the bus the way she was thrown????

The BS is fully aware it ain't love, especially when they do that. So don't worry about that OP.

 

Those emails will show the BS how much of a liar he is and that he will say anything for sex and an ego boost. THAT is what she will be thinking about - not be devastated at the thought of them being in a 3 year "love affair."

 

The evidence will show just how effed up in the head her husband is.

This is something she HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW.

 

Not to "prove" he was in love with me because I Clearly see and understand it wasn't love. I guess in my head it's showing that he was fully in this A, that he is lying when he said it was all me pressuring him to stay involved. I do want to apologize but I still wonder if I am also wanting validation that it was an A. And if that's the only reason I'd send an email with proof I think that's worse than just stepping back. I am really trying to figure out what to do Alice. I have changed since my 1st posts which was the same week d-day happened. Maybe I should just apologize and leave it at that. They move on and so do I.

[AnotherRound]

A little compassion won't hurt you Alice......I know you don't think wanting more deserves it because she had an affair with a man she knew was married, but I think wanting more is on the road to trying to do what is right. Maybe her motivations aren't totally pure yet, but give the gal a break will you.

 

You are obviously trying to throw in a few punches of your own with the "used for sex and it wasn't a love affair thing." What good does that do? Other than you trying to make her feel worse about herself?

 

I am glad that I'm in a place where I can wish healing and truth for both the bs and the ow.

 

My guess is that it makes Alice feel better about her own H's A. That if she can convince herself that her H didn't love someone else, then it doesn't hurt as much. I can understand that, I just dislike that she has some real insight to offer, yet negates it all with the jabs at any OP who posts here. In this case, I think it was detrimental to Wanting More, bc she is suggesting that WM "just go ahead and sock it to the wife bc OW is the pathetic one and it wasn't love anyway". Backhanded, and harmful, imo.

 

I don't think that WM should do that at all. I don't think that's healthy for her, OR for the BW in the situation. I would hate to see even MORE damage done when WM is obviously trying to do the right thing here, and already feels bad enough about the entire situation. I would hate to see WM do what is suggested, not realizing it is not a sincere suggestion but a jab, and then have to deal with the fallout from that too.

[AnotherRound]

My husband had a one-time sexual encounter with a virtual stranger who came on to him over a decade ago. In order to get her to have sex, he told her he was having marital problems and getting divorced. Then he felt bad afterwards and told her he wasn't leaving because she thought they were actually going start a relationship.

 

There was no "love affair" to concern myself about.

 

In any case, I confirmed it with a polygraph exam because . . . well . . . cheaters are liars and will say whatever they need to say in order to protect themselves. I needed to know what (and who) I was dealing with.

 

The BS in this case probably won't do a polygraph - most BS's don't even think to do one or are too afraid.

 

The OP needs to send the information.

The BS needs to know what she's dealing with.

 

I don't think that WM's exMMs wife wants a polygraph. They are useless anyway, as they are not even admissable in courts, bc they are NOT reliable. I think that WM is desperately trying to provide the wife with what the WIFE wants and needs, not with what WM wants and needs.

 

If your H's A was just sex, and so many years ago, may I ask why you are STILL so angry? I think that WM truly wants to express her regret for her involvement and move on. I don't think she wants to be here a decade later still feeling guilty and angry and hurt. She wants to move on, and in that process, she wants the wife to be able to move on also.

 

WM, I agree with what another poster said in that you should email her, offer to answer her questions. Do so honestly, and without venom, and then close the door. There is nothing more needed from you at that point, and if they are reconciling, and the BW chooses to believe him, that is not your gig, it is theirs. At that point, you've done all you can short of going back in time and making different decisions, which is, the best you can do now, imo, bc you obvs cannot go back in time and change it.

 

Offer what you can, and let it go. I know it's painful, and I'm sorry that you found out that your exMM is still unable to face his issues in his relationships, even after the DDay. I hope that you find happiness and peace in the near future.

[wanting more]

This is the 2nd d-day. After the 1st he fessed up to 2 drunk sexual encounters After about 2 months. Before that she sent me a long email with all kinds of questions which I lied when I answered. In my own mind I figured he panicked and felt bad for him. The A picked up about a month later until this 2nd d-day. I actually helped him again and gave him copies of a couple very clean, no feelings emails that he gave to her. Then she emailed and texted And called saying how crazy and pathetic and obsessed I was, and worse than a trashy slut. He turned it around and made it seem I kept after him. I pursued him and he was the innocent bystander. She was still convinced we had only slept together twice and in one of the text I responded with a place and time and proof I was with him and she did say in the last email something about 3 times sex. The naive part I said was when in the email she said she knew I gave him scripts from a book so he could start sexting me. Ive always said in here that I didn't want to send her anything (even though he couldn't deny the 3 years because of times and places) because did I want her to know for her, or did I want vengeance on him. Because I am still really really pi**ed at him and hurt and humiliated. But I am very sorry for what I did to her. That's why I'm

Still so confused

[AnotherRound]

They are not useless. Do your research.

We didn't do a "Jerry Springer" polygraph.

 

I have done the research. I work in a field where lying is paramount. They are not admissable in court, period. There is no difference in a Jerry Springer polygraph, and any other one. They measure biological responses to stress. There are many people in this world who can convince themselves that they are telling the truth, and pass a biological measurement of that. Not bc they are bad people, but bc they believe that they ARE telling the truth.

 

Are you suggesting that WM suggest a polygraph for her exMMs wife? Or, were you just saying that in your case, it made you feel better?

 

I agree, this post isn't about you. However, the suggestions that you are posting to WM are detrimental, imo. You are working off your experiences, and I understand that, but you are unable to offer unbiased advice re this issue, and in this case. I just don't want to see you encourage WM to do something that is not going to be beneficial, but get her (and BW) in more of a situation and cause more hurt.

 

She is asking what she should do, bc she is TRYING to make the right decision. She's not stalling, she's processing, and thinking, and weighing, and TRYING to do what is best for herself and BW.

[AnotherRound]

This is the 2nd d-day. After the 1st he fessed up to 2 drunk sexual encounters After about 2 months. Before that she sent me a long email with all kinds of questions which I lied when I answered. In my own mind I figured he panicked and felt bad for him. The A picked up about a month later until this 2nd d-day. I actually helped him again and gave him copies of a couple very clean, no feelings emails that he gave to her. Then she emailed and texted And called saying how crazy and pathetic and obsessed I was, and worse than a trashy slut. He turned it around and made it seem I kept after him. I pursued him and he was the innocent bystander. She was still convinced we had only slept together twice and in one of the text I responded with a place and time and proof I was with him and she did say in the last email something about 3 times sex. The naive part I said was when in the email she said she knew I gave him scripts from a book so he could start sexting me. Ive always said in here that I didn't want to send her anything (even though he couldn't deny the 3 years because of times and places) because did I want her to know for her, or did I want vengeance on him. Because I am still really really pi**ed at him and hurt and humiliated. But I am very sorry for what I did to her. That's why I'm

Still so confused

 

Okay, thanks for the background. I do remember that now that you say it. And it's understandable why you are confused, it's a confusing and hurtful situation. He is throwing you under the bus, to an extent. Mostly, to me, it sounds like he is trying to do damage control. But, if they truly want to reconcile, and he isn't going to be honest with her, it is NOT your job to do that for him, imo. It won't mean anything coming from you anyway. He needs to be the one to come clean with her, not you.

 

I know you're hurt, and confused, and trying to do the right thing. The right thing for you to do now, imo, is answer any questions she has for you, and then wash your hands of the whole thing. I know that's easier said than done, as you are now left to clean up the mess that he has made re your feelings and the relationship you had with him. I'm sorry for that, but my guess is, he isn't going to truly reconcile bc he can't/won't whatever. But that is NOT your problem, or your business at this point.

 

As hard as it may be, I would resist him if he tried to come back round, as you now know that he is not interested in living authentically at all. This does not seem to be a situational A for him, and for that, I'm sorry for you bc you obvs did have feelings for him. I do believe he had feelings for you, I'm not sure how he couldn't have. But, he's proven that his feelings for himself are more important to him, and that would be my answer if I was you.

 

Answer her questions, then walk away. As hard as it is, I really think that is going to be the healthiest for you and for her.

[AnotherRound]

I'm not going to argue about polygraphs - I also work in a field where lying is paramount. Big time paramount. And the poly's get the job done - every time.

 

In fact, the hours-long question and answer session just prior to the test yields more information than the actual test at times.

 

I'm always amazed at how much a person will spill right before the actual test.

It's comical actually.

 

In any case, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

Agree to disagree. We both obvs have experience with them, and in my experience, they are worthless. I would trust my gut MUCH more than I would a polygraph as I have seen people pass them with flying colors when I KNOW that they are lying. I'm glad that it worked for you and made you feel better. Again, we are obvs just different people.

 

I just ask that you be careful with what you suggest to WM as I think she is taking your advice seriously, and I would like to see her decrease her involvement in this situation, and not increase it. Have a great night!