Are humans the most advanced species on earth?

[BetheButterfly]

Hello,

 

I was writing in another thread and came to a confusing idea.

 

Do Atheists believe that humans are the most advanced species on earth? Why or why not?

 

I personally believe that humans have abilities that other animals do not have, and I believe that is a God-given trait. However, it makes me so sad that other animals do not have the abilities that humans have. I personally would love and adore it if animals could do what humans can. One of my best friends is Sheila, my darling little Yorkie who I love so much. I don't know how many times I have wished that we could talk. We do talk on one level, but she still doesn't get why I object to her rolling in cat doo-doo and why I insist on giving her baths. She just knows I am not pleased with the cat doo-doo roll but that I have no problem subjecting her to running water and doggy shampoo! She makes her point clear that she doesn't agree with me by sulking in the bathtub, but we are still on an impasse on this issue. At the moment, she is currently living with my parents, but I so wish I could talk to her on the phone and tell her how much I love and miss her and how I'm so looking forward to bringing her with me at Christmas. I would also love to tell her to stop rolling in cat doo-doo because Mom doesn't appreciate giving her baths, whereas I didn't mind though I did mind the cat-doo-doo perfume. I'm crying now.

 

I do talk to her on the phone by the way. My Mom says her cute little ears perk up, and that for the first 3 months I was gone, she would always wait for me. Mom says when I come back, she will still know me and love me too, but she doesn't know why I disappeared. Thankfully, she has my Mom and Dad and my parents' animals as her loving pack. I wish though that she could understand and talk with me on the phone.

 

So anyways, what do you believe concerning humans and their role on the earth? Do you believe that eventually, some humans will evolve into a species that is superior to the humans of today? Why or why not?

 

Also, do you think that someday, some other animal species (dogs for example cause I adore them so much) will someday become advanced, like humans of today?

 

Thanks!

Edited September 14, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[M30USA]

No, the most advanced species are the "sons of God" (angels) which are on earth incognito. They are able to control weather, start earthquakes, fly around in aerial vehicles that we are just beginning to discover, and according to the Old Testament, they know the "secrets of earth"--which aren't even intended to be known by man.

[Woggle]

You would think so but if we are how come we do so many stupid things.

[BetheButterfly]

No, the most advanced species are the "sons of God" (angels) which are on earth incognito. They are able to control weather, start earthquakes, fly around in aerial vehicles that we are just beginning to discover, and according to the Old Testament, they know the "secrets of earth"--which aren't even intended to be known by man.

 

Do you believe God created angels on earth? I don't think He did. I think He created them in Heaven. What is your opinion about that?

 

It is interesting to me how Genesis 1-2 does not talk about the creation of water, because water was already in the picture in Genesis 1:2. Genesis also does not mention the creation of angels at all. I think that the humans are the most "advanced" earthly species, due to God's giving them the ability to do things other animals can't or have not achieved yet.

 

However, I do most definitely agree that angels have powers human beings do not have.

[BetheButterfly]

Yes, humans are the most advanced species on earth. Opinions and belifes cant stand up to fact. We know humans are the most advanced on earth. If someone can PROVE otherwise I would be happy to listen.

 

Do you think someday some human beings will surpass others and become another species?

 

(I personally don't think so, but I adore science fiction movies like X-Men, which makes me curious.)

[Feelin Frisky]

I can be considered an atheist. I don't identify myself as one anymore because it gives too much power and cred to theism or believers. I'm just a human being trying to observe understanding based upon reason and not anyone else's handed-down figments of faith. What I "believe" does not change what is. So whether I believe human beings are the most advanced does not make it so although it may be true. The question is suspect--it seems to be biased to set up an assertion about a pecking order at which a human-like god is at the top. That is all in one's mind and not in mine. It doesn't matter if mankind is the most advanced species if mankind doesn't act like it. And given that we already went to the brink of nuclear and biological extinction and are causing climate change which is causing extinctions of other animals, the argument about who is most "advanced" becomes even more subjective.

 

We are land animals and have evolved the fingers to create many wondrous things which reflect the capacity within us. But who is to say that the mammals who returned to the ocean--the dolphins and whales--aren't as advanced or more so. One thing they do that we can't is that they switch hemispheres so that one half of the brain can sleep while the other keeps them alert. A big question is what really is sleep and what does it do? What has been discovered is that in phases of sleep "growth hormone" is released which does more than repair things of grow muscle or bone, it grows intelligence capacity in the form of increased interconnections in the brain. I think it could be fair to say that there are some porpoises who are probably more intelligent than some persons. But because this dynamic grwoth of intellectual capacity works at its own pace in each and every mammal, every creature is unique and different and at different stages of development than any other animal.

 

I reject "super-nature" entirely and I think it is impossible to embrace the true wonder of actual nature if you look at it through the lens that assumes a creator. We are inside nature--not above it. And that is plenty wonderful just the way it is. I am not ungrateful for the finite life I get to live and do not need a super-natural after life to have meaning.

[123321]

We are unlikely to evolve in any significant way because there are absolutely no selective pressures being applied to us.

 

If that's true please explain the massive differences in fecundity from group to group. For instance those is suburbia tend to actually produce fewer offspring than more rural or poor populations.

 

China seems to be exerting a pressure to reduce the growth of their population.

[BetheButterfly]

I can be considered an atheist. I don't identify myself as one anymore because it gives too much power and cred to theism or believers.

 

I don't really understand that. The term merely means someone who doesn't believe in God, right?

 

Do you believe the term "Theist" gives power or cred to Atheism or unbelievers?

 

I don't. It is just a category to define. I'm a Theist. Big whoopy deal. I don't feel powerful or more credible than other people who identify themselves as Atheists. That's sort of a funny thought, actually, like a silly joke!

 

I am also a Pacifist, but I don't think the term "Pacifist" gives power or cred to those who are not Pacifists. Why? Those who are not Pacifists have reasons even if there were no Pacifists.

 

I'm just a human being trying to observe understanding based upon reason and not anyone else's handed-down figments of faith.

That's perfectly fine. However, just because you have not experienced what others have experienced, that does not negate their experiences anymore than their experiences negate your experience.

A person who has not looked through a microscope does not negate the experiences of those who have looked through a microscope. In the same way, a person who has not experienced the spiritual does not negate the experiences of those who have experienced the spiritual.

 

What I "believe" does not change what is. So whether I believe human beings are the most advanced does not make it so although it may be true. The question is suspect--it seems to be biased to set up an assertion about a pecking order at which a human-like god is at the top.

It is interesting how some people see harmless questions with suspicion.

The question came to my mind when answering in another thread. I personally have some Atheist friends who do not believe humans are the most advanced species on earth, citing rapes, torture, murders and killing/eating other animals' flesh. (They are vegetarian.) They do not consider any species to be superior to any other. I don't know if they speak for most Atheists though. There seems to be other Atheists who believe that humans are the most advanced species and the "survival of the fittest" is an evolutionary theme, and who eat other animals' flesh with gusto...

 

That is why I asked the question, because I am curious what others think.

 

Personally, I believe God gave humans abilities that He didn't give to other animals. Now, I personally wish He did, especially with dogs and horses. One of my favorite fiction books are the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis. However, reality does not include other animals having the same abilities as humans. I am curious as to what Atheists think and why concerning the differences between humans and other animals.

 

That is all in one's mind and not in mine. It doesn't matter if mankind is the most advanced species if mankind doesn't act like it. And given that we already went to the brink of nuclear and biological extinction and are causing climate change which is causing extinctions of other animals, the argument about who is most "advanced" becomes even more subjective.

 

We are land animals and have evolved the fingers to create many wondrous things which reflect the capacity within us. But who is to say that the mammals who returned to the ocean--the dolphins and whales--aren't as advanced or more so. One thing they do that we can't is that they switch hemispheres so that one half of the brain can sleep while the other keeps them alert. A big question is what really is sleep and what does it do? What has been discovered is that in phases of sleep "growth hormone" is released which does more than repair things of grow muscle or bone, it grows intelligence capacity in the form of increased interconnections in the brain. I think it could be fair to say that there are some porpoises who are probably more intelligent than some persons. But because this dynamic grwoth of intellectual capacity works at its own pace in each and every mammal, every creature is unique and different and at different stages of development than any other animal.

I totally agree that every creature is unique and different!!! As for different stages of development, what do you mean by that? Do you think that adult dolphins and whales are at a more advanced stage of development than say, adult deer?

 

I reject "super-nature" entirely and I think it is impossible to embrace the true wonder of actual nature if you look at it through the lens that assumes a creator. We are inside nature--not above it. And that is plenty wonderful just the way it is. I am not ungrateful for the finite life I get to live and do not need a super-natural after life to have meaning.

That is up to you. Enjoy your finite life. I myself am enjoying my finite life on earth and the promise of eternal life too! If there is no God and thus no eternal life, how would I even know after I die? I'd know nothing. However, life is not just the physical. Edited September 15, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[BetheButterfly]

No I dont. Im assuming your talking about evolution but you are way off. It never says a duck will get crocodile traits and become a crocoduck like Kirk Kameron and Ray Comfort seem to think. Or that the bananna we know of today has always been that way.

 

Have you ever seen the movie X-men? That is what I am talking about... the idea where some humans mutate into having powers/abilities other humans don't. It is also an interesting idea if some humans will go on in the evolutionary process to become a totally different species than humans. I know that's science fiction, but it's an intriguing idea nonetheless.

[123321]

Have you ever seen the movie X-men? That is what I am talking about... the idea where some humans mutate into having powers/abilities other humans don't. It is also an interesting idea if some humans will go on in the evolutionary process to become a totally different species than humans. I know that's science fiction, but it's an intriguing idea nonetheless.

 

It seems more likely that a singularity event might result in humans who choose to enhance themselves in one way or another as is often explored in science fiction such as the "Altered Carbon" series.

[florence of suburbia]

We humans developed our big brains, and most particularly our forebrains, allowing us to specialize and master time and space much in the same way birds evolved wings and mastered the air. This made us the only animals on earth with the ability to reflect and examine, to move forward and backward in time in our minds, to imagine scenarios that don't exist. We infer meaning. We make stories (including those about God and Christ.) That's what we do. It's given us the ability to predict and avoid danger and to understand the consequences of a choice before we make it, which gives us an advantage over other animals.

 

It has also made us troubled and confused, aware of our own limitations and mortality, which leads to suffering in a way no other animal endures. One of the poets said that animals are the true imortals, since they don't have an awareness of their own finite nature. So your little dog is blessed in that way.

[BetheButterfly]

I have seen X-Men. I thought your comment was using what most religous people feel is damaging to the theory of evolution. Usually relgious people feel that evolution will turn something into something completely different. Thats what I was getting at with Comfort and Kameron.

 

Oh no. I am actually find evolution to be intriguing. Although I believe God created the universe, I am one of those Christians who believe that evolution was part of the process, and I have no idea if the 6 days in Genesis 1 are actual 24 hour days or days as in "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by,or like a watch in the night." (quote from Moses' prayer to God: Psalm 90:4) and "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Peter 3:8). Genesis 2 seems to be ambiguous as to days/time.

 

I do know that the Bible is not a science book, but rather an amazing compilation of ancient manuscripts preserved for a very long time. The Torah is more than 3,000 years old!!! That impresses me very much! Once I experienced God, my respect for the Tanakh (which includes the Torah) and the New Testament, multiplied tenfold!

 

Many Jewish people who believe in G-d, by the way, do not have an issue with the concept of evolution. I'm not Jewish, but Jesus is.

 

 

So no, I dont think humans will end up being something else completely. We do have to take time into consideration and with that there are unlimmited possibilties. They are unknown so I cant state them. I believe the earth is billions of years old and there has been alot of change in that time. I believe life on it has gone through many changes as well. Just look at fossils of early man. Very different from what we see now.

 

Change happens in a small amount of time too, but yeah I understand your point and respect your and other peoples' speculations due to what we can find to hint at the past. Again, that's one reason why I really admire the Torah, because it is a part of the past that has survived more than several thousand years. It's like a fossil, in a way, since it's so ancient and talks about the past, particularly the past experiences of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel).

[TheFinalWord]

It has also made us troubled and confused, aware of our own limitations and mortality, which leads to suffering in a way no other animal endures. One of the poets said that animals are the true imortals, since they don't have an awareness of their own finite nature. So your little dog is blessed in that way.

 

Interesting post...interesting story:

 

Dog stands guard over deceased owner

[BetheButterfly]

We humans developed our big brains, and most particularly our forebrains,

 

How did humans develop "big brains"?

 

And if humans could do that before they had big brains, how come other animals can't or don't do that, or do they? Feelin Frisky made a very cool point about the amazing sleep ability of just one hemisphere of the brain. That's awesome that they can do that! I would actually love to not even need to sleep lol, but yeah Feelin Frisky did raise an intriguing point concerning sleep. All animals, as far as I know, sleep or rest to a certain extent, some more than others.

 

If humans could do that, what prevents dogs for example from developing big brains? I would absolutely love it if my darling Sheila could hyper-evolve brain so that today she figures out how to use my Mom's cell phone, calls me, and talks human English lol in her cute little doggy voice, "Where are you? Get your bald butt back here! I miss you!"

 

I realize the idea of evolution includes time, but do you think humans and only humans can evolve "big forebrains" or that maybe someday other animals will figure it out, little by little?

 

(And yeah, I like the Planet of the Apes movie too... very interesting.)

 

allowing us to specialize and master time and space much in the same way birds evolved wings and mastered the air.

 

Do you think someday people could evolve wings also? It is interesting how in many cultures believe in angelic beings or think in different ways of pixie/fairy beings. I personally adore Tinker Bell, for example, one of the reasons is because I would love to be able to have dainty wings and fly!!! That would eliminate the need for petroleum and other means of transportation lol, that's for sure!!!

 

 

This made us the only animals on earth with the ability to reflect and examine, to move forward and backward in time in our minds, to imagine scenarios that don't exist. We infer meaning. We make stories (including those about God and Christ.)

 

We also remember and write down experiences. Moses, for example, wrote down experiences he and his people had. Now of course you can say that Moses merely made that up, or the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob made up a Moses and made up prophets and made up King David and so on, but unless someone can go back in the past and document proof to the contrary, their opinions are merely speculation.

 

As for Christians, the followers of Jesus told other people about what they experienced about Jesus. Now, some people believe some of what they say, others believe all, others much later on (including in this day and age) might not even think Jesus existed but again, unless someone can go back in the past and document proof to the contrary, their opinions are merely speculation.

 

The followers of Buddha and Muhammad also told about what they respectively said and did. Some people believe some of what they say, others believe all, others might not even think they existed but again, unless someone can go back in the past and document proof to the contrary, their opinions are merely speculation.

That's what we do. It's given us the ability to predict and avoid danger and to understand the consequences of a choice before we make it, which gives us an advantage over other animals.

 

It has also made us troubled and confused, aware of our own limitations and mortality, which leads to suffering in a way no other animal endures. One of the poets said that animals are the true imortals, since they don't have an awareness of their own finite nature. So your little dog is blessed in that way.

 

That is a good point, that I don't think they have an awareness of their own finite nature. However, they don't want to die. They also don't want to get hurt. They do have an awareness of pain. Many of them, including dogs, also have an awareness of injustice. For example, if when at my parents' house, I give my Sheila a treat, I better give my Mom's dogs treats too, or they will tell me how unjust I am. (and I feel guilty anyways.) So, I give them all treats!

 

Dogs are able to connect emotionally with humans. I personally believe dogs have the capacity to love. Now, I don't think lizards too but I don't know. The last time I rescued a lizard from our house and put him/her outside, I could feel at first that the lizard was scared, till I spoke to it and was still. Then, the lizard got on my finger, crawled on my arm, and seemed curious. (I have no idea if it was curious or not, but it obviously decided I wasn't going to hurt it.) I then took him/her outside and he/she didn't even say thank you, but disappeared!

 

As a human, I believe it is important for us to be a blessing and help other animals. I do think you are right about us having brains that are different than others, and we should use those brains to bless and help and protect and care for the other animals. Now, I'm a hypocrite in that I don't feel the same was about bugs like cockroaches and ants. I feel bad about that but I really don't like them to invade the house. However, what makes me sad is when humans treat other animals horribly. Now, I believe God made humans different than the other animals, with more abilities and yeah, bigger brains and capacities in that respect, but with that gift is also the responsibility to take good care of other animals, not hurt them!

 

As for Atheists, do they consider (and I realize Atheists are diverse same as Theists) humans to be responsible for caring for animals, as well as how we treat each other? Some of the Atheists I absolutely adore are people who work hard to help animals. Those who think that humans are the most advanced species and who help other animals are actually being good stewards of the earth, I think: whether they believe in God or not!

 

As for Sheila being blessed, yeah since you put it that way. However, I still wish she could understand that I did not just disappear from her life.

[Robert Z]

Do Atheists believe that humans are the most advanced species on earth? Why or why not?

 

We have certainly demonstated ability to control our environment to a far greater extent that any other species. We have math and the sciences. We build complex tools, machines, and structures. We have philosphy, complex music, poetry, art... It is a pretty long list. If this is the standard by which we define the idea of "advanced" then yes, we are clearly the most advanced species.

 

So anyways, what do you believe concerning humans and their role on the earth? Do you believe that eventually, some humans will evolve into a species that is superior to the humans of today? Why or why not?

 

Also, do you think that someday, some other animal species (dogs for example cause I adore them so much) will someday become advanced, like humans of today?

 

Thanks!

 

With genetic engineering and the merging of man with machine, it probably won't be long, perhaps a century or two, before we are as much engineered, and machine, as we are human. So it seems to me evolution will now be guided by us. Same for your dog. I suspect that highly advanced pets are also on the horizon.

 

We are The Borg in utero.

[BetheButterfly]

Our mutated variant of the MYH16 gene, causing humans to have inferior jaw muscles compared to other great apes.

 

No, I don't think dogs will figure out how to increase their cranial holding capacity.

 

How did humans figure it out? Was it a mere accident/fluke of nature, having a mutated variant of the MYH16 gene? Can a similar mutation not ever happen to other animals?

[Robert Z]

How did humans figure it out? Was it a mere accident/fluke of nature, having a mutated variant of the MYH16 gene? Can a similar mutation not ever happen to other animals?

 

Sure. One day in the very distance future, there could be an entirely new dominant species. But we are talking about millions of years.

 

Back in the 70s there was a popular theory that the cockroach will eventually inherit the earth. Why? Because they are virtually indestructable.

[BetheButterfly]

Interesting post...interesting story:

 

Dog stands guard over deceased owner

 

Dogs have the ability to love. I know Sheila loves me... which is why it causes me emotional pain to be away from her (and I know due to my Mom's account) that she felt loss too.

 

She would wait everyday most of the day for me at the door of my parents' house, for around 3 months. She also would sleep in my bed at my parents' house. (She hates being alone, by the way.) It was only till Mom begin forcing her to stay with her did Sheila begin to "move on." That made me happy but also sad. I just wish I could have explained to her why I'm not there, and for her to understand.

 

I can't wait to see her again!!! I have seen videos of people who have left, particularly soldiers, who are greeted with joy by their beloved dogs when they return!!! Poor dogs do not understand why their loved one leaves, but they are so happy when they return!!!

[Robert Z]

Sure. One day in the very distance future, there could be an entirely new dominant species. But we are talking about millions of years..

 

You don't get much time for edits!!!

 

I meant to say, "One day in the very distance future, there could be an entirely new dominant species that has even greater abilities than we do".

[BetheButterfly]

Once thorough genetic engineering becomes possible the offspring of the wealthy and powerful will very quickly surpass anything nature can produce.

 

Do you think the earliest human beings genetically engineered themselves to be different, or that it was just a production of nature? A natural selection process based on chance and accident?

[BetheButterfly]

Sure. One day in the very distance future, there could be an entirely new dominant species. But we are talking about millions of years.

 

That would be interesting. Do you consider dinosaurs to be the dominant species millions of years ago, if you believe the earth is more than a million years old?

Back in the 70s there was a popular theory that the cockroach will eventually inherit the earth. Why? Because they are virtually indestructable.

Eww!!

 

I would hope if another species does actually become more "advanced" than humans, they'd at least be prettier lol!

 

I'd personally wonder if bears would be the next to "evolve", since they can walk pretty well on their hind feet and can use their front paws pretty well. Wouldn't it be scary if they could actually begin to figure out how to outsmart humans???

 

Anyways, all this is mere creative speculation. It's interesting to think about though!

[BetheButterfly]

Humans didn't figure it out, that's not how evolution works. It certainly could, but there's no guarantee it'd have an outcome as beneficial as ours.

 

Evolution doesn't work like that but could?

 

It does seem strange to me the idea that if God did not exist, then how come humans accidentally (since they didn't figure it out) become what we are today?

 

Do you think humans accidentally learned how to read and write? Was an accidental mutation, a fluke of nature, what triggered humans' brains to do what other animals do not show the initiative of doing? For example, some animals (apes for example) today recognize and make symbols because people patiently teach them. Some show more aptitude for it than others. However, what caused humans to take the initiative to create a written language and teach others? A mutation? (I am trying to understand the general Atheistic point of view on this.)

 

Now, if a natural mutation made this possible, why has this not happened (as far as we know) with other orders instead of just the primate order?

 

By the way, I don't believe it's right to experiment on animals.I don't think people should try to mutate an animal to be more human-like in abilities, because that kind of experimentation hurts the animals being used as guinea pigs. However, I am curious as to why nature itself has only "selected" 1 order and in that order, only 1 species to endow with "bigger brains." ?

[BetheButterfly]

 

I have a question of my own, assuming you have one, what kind of school ever handed you a diploma with such a fundamental lack of understanding of biology and the theory of evolution?

 

There is no need to be rude or snide. Does being rude or snide make you feel better about yourself? Does putting someone else down (though I have my high school diploma and have only gotten my Associate's Degree) make you feel superior to me or those who have never gotten their high school diploma? if so, then that is sad. There is no reason to be rude and mock me just because I have questions and think differently than you do.

 

I personally appreciate discussing with polite and kind people. Chao.

Edited September 15, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[M30USA]

Do you believe God created angels on earth? I don't think He did. I think He created them in Heaven. What is your opinion about that?

 

It is interesting to me how Genesis 1-2 does not talk about the creation of water, because water was already in the picture in Genesis 1:2. Genesis also does not mention the creation of angels at all. I think that the humans are the most "advanced" earthly species, due to God's giving them the ability to do things other animals can't or have not achieved yet.

 

However, I do most definitely agree that angels have powers human beings do not have.

 

I'm not sure where God created the angels, but the truth is they are present here in some physical fashion. Just how prevalent is something I've always wondered. But an angel in the form of a man sat down and ate bread with Abraham.

[123321]

Can you elaborate more on what you mean? Are you saying that city-dwellers are less fertile, or that the difference is more down to use of contraception and lifestyle factors like preferring a career over raising a family?

 

I'm saying it doesn't matter why, some selective pressure is causing them to behave in a way that produces fewer living offspring, bottom line.