exMMs avoidant behaviors...

[2sunny]

I am not avoidant, however you define it. I am not a fence sitter either. I would say all of these types of realtionships come with unique terms and rules of engagement, and that as these realtionships can't really move forward in a traditional sense, both parties have to be adapted to that fact. Of course, I nver promised anything to my OW and she never expected anyting, other than spending quality time togther. Apparently, many of the MM make promises about their future which creates expectations that will never be met, unfortunate. I would say this is stupid, because when it ends, you end up with very upset OW sending facts and details to your wife, or at least in some of the stories I have read about here. Much better that both partners define the realtionship and manage to to the agreement. Really at the end of the day, you both have every specfic needs from it. Regarding sharing of the personal information, after 7 years (which is the duration of my affair as well) some personal information is going to come out. I do not talk a lot about personal deatils of my wife, but do share generally family information and she does too. To the OP, did your MM every meet any of your extended family?

 

And I would say that you aren't honest about the terms of your R because you haven't been honest with your W as to why you're so happy = you have added in another woman without asking her permission.

 

Much like the OP - the W doesn't know what's REALLY going on. The H is spending time and energy on another woman...so the truth isn't on the table.

[AnotherRound]

I believe that it is never the cheaters place to decide if it's fixable. If they want to fix it then it's up to the BS to deign to or not. Also I don't believe where there's infidelity that I would ever end on good terms. You think you could walk away saying oh well you cheated but it just wasn't a good fit and we are both better off? In fact I believe that's what you say you did. To me that's crazy talk. You cheated and that's indefensible. No matter who is better off. And you're never better off cheating or being cheated on than not. It destroys the Bs emotionally and it destroys the character of the cheating spouse.

 

I was very clear in bursting Hs bubble when he was ambivalent and I believe it's what made him come out of it. I was not going to play to his little fantasy of sharing the kids and living in the next suburb to him and OW. I did not consider either of them fit parents. I would move far away and take the kids with me (legally I could do this as I'd have to move to get full time work to support myself and I'd not likely find that here). I would never see him again ever. Not at anything, the girls could be handed over for visitation by relatives.

 

Jade Eyes, yes, that is what I did with my exH. It wasn't that flippant, but in my mind, if he felt the need to cheat, then we were not a good fit. Not to mention, we had been unhappy prior to the cheating. His cheating just gave me a "justifiable" reason in society's eyes to end the marriage, which I was VERY reluctant to do. I had this idea in my head that marriage was forever, no matter what, aside from certain things like cheating or abuse.

 

The difference between you and I is that I did NOT dwell on it. I know you are hurt, and I know you are trying to heal. I totally get that, I really do. But, you and I, we view the world VERY differently. Not to mention, I did NOT have children with me exH and you do... that is a game changer, absolutely. And I don't envy your position, it saddens me for you bc having to consider your children and sacrifice your own needs for them (although noble), puts you in a very bad position, imo.

 

When I look at the world, I don't dwell on the things I cannot change. I could not control my exH or his behaviors any more than I can control you, or any other person in this world for that matter. I accept that, 100%, completely. I don't worry about it, I don't dwell on it, I don't wallow in it. I simply accept it. My exH made choices that affected me without consulting me whatsoever. I do NOT dwell on that bc I cannot control that, I can't change it... I just have to accept it, no matter how hurtful it is, I just have to accept that. The way I handle it is, what do I do from HERE? I catch up to HERE quickly, bc to me, there is nothing productive going to come from me being "back there" when my exH was already "here" and those choices had already happened.

 

Neither way is right or wrong, we are just different. My concern for you is that you do sincerely seem to believe that someone who cheats is "less than human"... that their character is now never redeemable again. That's okay if that's your boundary, but... how is that going to work for you and your marriage? I just don't see how you can make something work with someone that you now deem "unhuman" or with "bad" character. I'm not saying the way you are doing it is wrong, it's just not the way that I would approach it.

 

It's okay that we are different. It's okay that we don't always agree. It's okay that your decisions are not the decisions that would make and vice versa. In my world, it doesn't make one of us "good" and one of us "bad"... it just makes us different, and very human.

[AnotherRound]

AR,

 

It might have been me that asked you what your beliefs are on monogamy/being exclusive in a relationship were.(based on you not wanting to ever marry again)

 

But I'm kind of confused that you said you believe in exclusiveness in relationships, because anyone in an EMA with a married person is technically sharing that person with the spouse.(or OOW)

 

I agree that couples(married or not), should BOTH discuss and agree on the terms of their relationship.

 

The problem with EMAs is that the BS is left in the dark, not able to control, decide, or agree on what she/he wants in their marriage. It is totally unfair to use other people in this manner for your own personal desires.

 

I absolutely agree. My question is... what if one partner REFUSES to discuss this, despite the other partner attempting repeatedly to find out where the refusing partner stands?

 

In my situation, the BS was not in the dark. I'm not saying it was right, I'm not saying it was the best answer, I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying that it was complicated and layered as any relationship is and exMM made the best decision that he could with the information that he had at the time - in his mind.

 

If it really was as simple as exMM going to his stbxw (as he did many times) and saying, "I'm not happy here, where are you with all of this? What do you want? What can you do, if anything? What can I do, if anything" ... and the stbxw had just answered, and discussed... well, who knows how that would have turned out? Nobody, bc that never happened... He went to her repeatedly, trying to figure out what she wanted and how she felt, and she refused to communicate. So, he made decisions independent of her... he told her what he was doing. She just did NOT want to confront the issues.

 

I'm not justifying it, I've said that many times. I NEVER thought an A was the right thing to do. I should NOT have been involved... but I was. I can't take it back, I can't change it... I did the best I could. And then, I walked away. I'm not asking anyone to say it was "right"... I'm just asking people to understand it is not black and white, it is not easy, and there were complications in their relationship as there are in any relationship. I always had an issue with the fact that exMM didn't just walk away from the marriage, like I thought he "should". But, I am not him, I do not make his decisions for him, I cannot control that... and I DO understand why he didn't. He was afraid to walk away bc he had NO idea what she wanted. He did not want to end the marriage, and his child's parent's relationship, unless he KNEW that there was nothing there. I can understand that. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

[2sunny]

I absolutely agree. My question is... what if one partner REFUSES to discuss this, despite the other partner attempting repeatedly to find out where the refusing partner stands?

 

In my situation, the BS was not in the dark. I'm not saying it was right, I'm not saying it was the best answer, I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying that it was complicated and layered as any relationship is and exMM made the best decision that he could with the information that he had at the time - in his mind.

 

If it really was as simple as exMM going to his stbxw (as he did many times) and saying, "I'm not happy here, where are you with all of this? What do you want? What can you do, if anything? What can I do, if anything" ... and the stbxw had just answered, and discussed... well, who knows how that would have turned out? Nobody, bc that never happened... He went to her repeatedly, trying to figure out what she wanted and how she felt, and she refused to communicate. So, he made decisions independent of her... he told her what he was doing. She just did NOT want to confront the issues.

 

I'm not justifying it, I've said that many times. I NEVER thought an A was the right thing to do. I should NOT have been involved... but I was. I can't take it back, I can't change it... I did the best I could. And then, I walked away. I'm not asking anyone to say it was "right"... I'm just asking people to understand it is not black and white, it is not easy, and there were complications in their relationship as there are in any relationship. I always had an issue with the fact that exMM didn't just walk away from the marriage, like I thought he "should". But, I am not him, I do not make his decisions for him, I cannot control that... and I DO understand why he didn't. He was afraid to walk away bc he had NO idea what she wanted. He did not want to end the marriage, and his child's parent's relationship, unless he KNEW that there was nothing there. I can understand that. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

 

I had to read this 3 times - because at first you gave a strong indication that his wife knew he was having an affair.

 

But then I read it further only to see that he didn't actually come right out and state that hewas having an affair.

 

You seem just as sneaky as he is - you're writing style is becoming more evasive and less upfront as you continue to post.

 

Just getti a clear point. It's easier to see what's real withyou IF you would takeaway all the fluff and just state facts.

 

 

It's irritating chasing your truth.

[AnotherRound]

I had to read this 3 times - because at first you gave a strong indication that his wife knew he was having an affair.

 

His stbxw DID know he was having an A. When did I ever say she didn't?

But then I read it further only to see that he didn't actually come right out and state that hewas having an affair.

 

When did I say that? He did tell her, both times. He did not provide details, and she didn't ask. She did call me a few times, but refused to speak.

You seem just as sneaky as he is - you're writing style is becoming more evasive and less upfront as you continue to post.

 

Lol. My writing style is evasive? Wtf are you talking about? This is called free writing, journaling. This is for MY benefit in processing, not yours in reading, sorry, lmao.

 

Just getti a clear point. It's easier to see what's real withyou IF you would takeaway all the fluff and just state facts.

Sorry, multiple advanced degrees, 2 of them in creative writing. You can choose not to read my posts if you can't keep up. Free writing isn't supposed to be linear, its brainstorming and processing and chaotic and fast. Again, these posts are for my benefit, not a thesis that I'm turning in to you for a grade on cohesiveness, lol.

 

 

It's irritating chasing your truth.

 

It's not required here at LS that you read my posts. You may freely skip over them, or even add me to your Ignore List. I'm sorry if you can't follow my posts, wasn't aware I was writing directly to you for your advice and approval. ????

 

I'm sorry, but this seriously made me lol... a lot...

[Sauron]

And I would say that you aren't honest about the terms of your R because you haven't been honest with your W as to why you're so happy = you have added in another woman without asking her permission.

 

Much like the OP - the W doesn't know what's REALLY going on. The H is spending time and energy on another woman...so the truth isn't on the table.

 

No and if I have my way it never will be. But it works today and for the last 7 years and the way it's looking for as long as I want. It's my life and thats the way it is. I don't need permission from any one, or validation from anyone. I will say that my wife gets plenty of time and energy, and so does OW. It's all about balance.

[AnotherRound]

No and if I have my way it never will be. But it works today and for the last 7 years and the way it's looking for as long as I want. It's my life and thats the way it is. I don't need permission from any one, or validation from anyone. I will say that my wife gets plenty of time and energy, and so does OW. It's all about balance.

 

I find your story to be very similar to my experience with exMM. I'm interested to know if you would consider yourself passive aggressive or conflict avoidant? Not that I'm seeing those in you, just curious to get your viewpoint as I am the FOW and am interested to see if your views are similar to my exMM's.

 

I know that my exMM probably does not consider himself conflict avoidant, but I'm not so sure. He certainly has avoided leaving his marriage and has provided many of the same reasons as you (his main one being a child still at home w whom he is very close). But I do worry, if he and I are to pursue in the future, what I may be getting myself into re his behaviors. Any insight on this issue? How it might be different for you to be divorced and w the OW full time? Or would you not consider being with the OW full time after a divorce?

 

I am lucky in that my exMM appears to have been very honest with me. And I'm smart enough to know that his perceptions are skewed somehwat bc he can't be objective about a marriage he is involved in. But I do believe he has been honest in saying he has feelings for me, loves me, but thought a divorce would be hard for his child... and he did not want to have to split his assets, including a home that he built and loves. I have always found this valid, and didn't feel as if he was simply using me for sex, or didn't value what we had. Do you have similar feelings, or is that completely different for you?

 

He and I have talked extensively of these things, and he is now in the process of divorce. He has tried, and may still try, to reconcile. Sometimes I understand that, sometimes I don't. Any thoughts on this?

 

Just really interested in your perspective. Only difference I can see is that exMM was very frustrated and unhappy with hismarriage, the state of it, and seemed to feel trapped... yet, comfortable. If that makes sense? Thanks for sharing.

[AnotherRound]

I am not avoidant, however you define it. I am not a fence sitter either. I would say all of these types of realtionships come with unique terms and rules of engagement, and that as these realtionships can't really move forward in a traditional sense, both parties have to be adapted to that fact. Of course, I nver promised anything to my OW and she never expected anyting, other than spending quality time togther. Apparently, many of the MM make promises about their future which creates expectations that will never be met, unfortunate. I would say this is stupid, because when it ends, you end up with very upset OW sending facts and details to your wife, or at least in some of the stories I have read about here. Much better that both partners define the realtionship and manage to to the agreement. Really at the end of the day, you both have every specfic needs from it. Regarding sharing of the personal information, after 7 years (which is the duration of my affair as well) some personal information is going to come out. I do not talk a lot about personal deatils of my wife, but do share generally family information and she does too. To the OP, did your MM every meet any of your extended family?

 

Just realized you asked me a question here! Lol

 

Yes, exMM met my only sibling once (all of my family live in other states). He and I have spent time with mutual friends, and my best friend, who is my surrogate family

 

We live in a very small town, and made every effort to not flaunt our relationship around town as his wife and child live here too. His wife was aware of me, and my relationship with him. I don't think she was ever happy about it, but it didn't seem to bother her in that she never wanted to discuss it or confront it or try to interfere. I guess that's mainly why I didn't feel as bad as I could have, in that, she could have ended it with very few words to me, and I did give her chances to do so, and she chose not to. So, seemed to me, everyone was okay with it. I was probably the least okay with it, and he was probably the most okay with it, with his wife somewhere in the middle of us.

 

I never thought about wanting him full time, I'm pretty independent. But I don't really like sharing my SO. I guess it didn't bother me as much in this situation, if at all, bc I knew I was getting the best of him in many ways, in ways that they did not share. We both met very different needs for him, and although it wasn't ideal, it was ok... for 7 years.

 

Like I said, I am very interested in hearing more of your perspective.

[woinlove]

Sauron...you're just going to keep on cheating behind your wife's back?? I cannot believe this. You need to make a choice. Where is your integrity?

 

You can't believe this? Sauron is not the only person in an A who plans on continuing in the A. He explained himself quite well in his original thread.

[woinlove]

It appeared to me that his wife didn't know about it, and if she doesn't and he plans on continuing the affair, this is a horrible way to treat someone.

 

I agree but Sauron disagrees. I often try to argue with WS or with AP that they should move toward a more honest and authentic position. I don't argue with Sauron because he does not want to change. This is a lifestyle choice for him that he has maintained for years, sometimes more than one OW at a time, and he feels both he and his W are better off financially than if she were to find out and choose to divorce him and that financial advantage matters to him. On the topic of this thread, Sauron isn't avoidant, he likes the double (or triple or whatever) lifestyle that he has.

Sauron - obviously, jump in if I have anything wrong.

[sleepie]

I don't want to hurt anyone, but frankly as a woman who is craving another woman's husband right now (not saying it's right), I wouldn't care. The man that I think I want has told me he "loves his wife, but he loves his dog too..."," that she doesn't satisfy him sexually", "they don't have sex enough", blah, blah. Most of that could be lies, ok. I think it depends on the length of the affair too. If the affair has been lengthy and he cares about his AP, I can see a MM telling his AP this info about his wife. When there is an affair, there are three people in the marriage as unfortunate as it is. That is just how it goes.

 

This thread is long and I just got around to reading the whole thing, so forgive me for bringing up a post that's a couple of pages old.

 

But I agree with this. If the affair is lengthy, and if the MM/MW truly cares/loves his OP, then yes... personal crap is gonna come out in conversation. xMOM shared many personal things with me--things he said he never told anyone else (maybe... maybe not) and things that he said later he should've have never told me about his W (definitely true). I shared less, as I am reticent by nature unless I am anonymous (I am a coward and I still honored my H and our secrets.). But overall, I agree. Personal crap about BSs and intimate details about marriages will come out if the A is based on love and trust (which few As are, admittedly). Or if the MM/MW is, in my words, a "over-sharer."

 

Abortions are so personal. So private. I can understand why any woman would want to KILL her WS for sharing those details with an AP. But as sad and hard as it is to swallow, some MM do just that. They share all kinds of things that the BS would be furious to know that he shared. That, too, is part of the betrayal. To have your private, personal, information--the thing you shared only with the person you loved the most--laid out for someone else to see must be the most heart-breaking thing ever.

 

That said, AR, you seem to be getting a lot of flack here that I'm not sure you deserve. You certainly come across as rational, reasonable, and capable. I do agree that you might be kidding yourself a bit--I think you may be more emotionally invested in this man and the outcome of his D than you admit to yourself--but I also think that's understandable. I think, as OW, we tend to delude ourselves in general, in a way that even time cannot change (i.e. I think xMOM actually loved me, but I am probably so wrong). And I think that your overall logical and seemingly detached approach will serve you well in the end, no matter what the outcome.

[2sunny]

It's not AR's fault that her MM told her private info---> to which she should understand that he will also share HER private info with others too.

 

It was only a matter of pointing out HIS lack of respect, boundaries and integrity... This is part of who he is - a man leith no honor... But that should have been obvious to begin with...

[AnotherRound]

It's not AR's fault that her MM told her private info---> to which she should understand that he will also share HER private info with others too.

 

It was only a matter of pointing out HIS lack of respect, boundaries and integrity... This is part of who he is - a man leith no honor... But that should have been obvious to begin with...

 

I agree. He might share my info. He definitely would share my info he and I were to get together, break up, and he moves on.

 

I think the whole thing here is, I really don't care. I know that some don't believe that, but I am not a super private person. I share a lot about myself with people that I am close with. I truly have nothing that is off limits to talk about with those I trust and care about. And with people that I'm not intimate, or in a serious relationship, I'm still pretty open.

 

I'm not saying I give details and such upon meeting someone. I exhibit good boundaries with this with those people. But, honestly, there is nothing that he could tell someone that I wouldn't tell them myself.

 

I see that it could be very hurtful if he cheated on me and was telling THAT person my info. But it would only be hurtful to me that he was sharing anything with her at all... the info would be irrelevant. It would be the act of him connecting emotionally with someone else in the way that he and I have that would hurt. I could care less if the other person knew about my abuse, my quirks, my personal information, etc. We all have different boundaries regarding different things. This is one thing that I have very "soft" boundaries with, bc it just doesn't bother me.

 

I do get what everyone is saying, and understand why they find it personally horrible (as in, they would be livid if it was their information being shared). I totally understand that. And I get that he may (even probably will) tell my information, but that truly doesn't bother me. My exH has surely shared personal things about me with his new wife, it would be impossible almost not to. And I get that it's different in that I was the AP, not the new spouse. I get all of that.

 

The only other point I would like to make here is that the info he shared with me, about her abortions, was his information too. She had several abortions while she was married to him (and prior to marriage as she thought premarital sex was wrong), and he was involved in that decision as her partner. The ones prior to him were not his business to share, but I think he was trying to assure me that he had not "forced" her to have abortions, but that they had agreed to them as they wanted to remain childless (well, until she didn't want to remain childless anymore and then refused to have an abortion, despite his expressing he did not want more children).

 

So, I get it. I'm not denying that what anyone is saying is probably true about him sharing my personal information. It just wouldn't bother me.

[AnotherRound]

It's not AR's fault that her MM told her private info---> to which she should understand that he will also share HER private info with others too.

 

It was only a matter of pointing out HIS lack of respect, boundaries and integrity... This is part of who he is - a man leith no honor... But that should have been obvious to begin with...

 

I'm not sure that you can conclude, from this or anything that I've said, that he is a "man with no honor". He didn't honor his marriage certificate, that is only one aspect of his life. I don't agree that this "sums him up" or proves that he has "no honor". If he was one dimensional, maybe... but he's a much more complicated picture than that because he is human.

 

I really wish that you could consider that we are ALL a mixture of things, good and bad. And negating anything positive that someone has simply bc YOU deem them without honor based on one thing that they have done, is to me, self righteous and delusional.

 

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. I'm going to assume that this is your opinion, as you cannot know this as fact. And I'm also going to assume that you are not attempting to jab at me, and give you the benefit of the doubt with the "should have been obvious" comment.

 

Thanks for the responses, but please try to stay on topic. Thanks.

Edited September 19, 2012 by AnotherRound

[2sunny]

I pointed out HIS behavior - so no, that wasn't a jab at you at all.

 

To stay on topic - you've stated that the settlement should be happening soon. Will that make the D final at that time?

 

FWIW - are you still considering staying away for him when his D is final? I ask because I think it IS really important that he understands himself - without being with any woman.

 

I can say that after being in a M for 20 years - I really helped me to understand who and what I was as an INDIVIDUAL person after I divorced. It confused me to find out about me on my own - I had no idea what that looked like since I had spent half of my life with another man.

 

What I love and know about me isn't what I knew about me when I divorced. It took time to figure out what I was about being on my own.

 

I don't rely on anyone else for my happiness. That is up to me.

 

I'm also not afraid to be on my own.

 

He may need time to heal and grow before considering anything/anyone new.

 

I'm concerned if you step in soon he may not be offering you his healthiest self.

 

I don't see any reason to rush things - since you've waited your whole life for someone like him- it shouldn't be difficult to wait a year or so longer to find out what he's really like.

[AnotherRound]

I pointed out HIS behavior - so no, that wasn't a jab at you at all.

 

To stay on topic - you've stated that the settlement should be happening soon. Will that make the D final at that time?

 

FWIW - are you still considering staying away for him when his D is final? I ask because I think it IS really important that he understands himself - without being with any woman.

 

I can say that after being in a M for 20 years - I really helped me to understand who and what I was as an INDIVIDUAL person after I divorced. It confused me to find out about me on my own - I had no idea what that looked like since I had spent half of my life with another man.

 

What I love and know about me isn't what I knew about me when I divorced. It took time to figure out what I was about being on my own.

 

I don't rely on anyone else for my happiness. That is up to me.

 

I'm also not afraid to be on my own.

 

He may need time to heal and grow before considering anything/anyone new.

 

I'm concerned if you step in soon he may not be offering you his healthiest self.

 

I don't see any reason to rush things - since you've waited your whole life for someone like him- it shouldn't be difficult to wait a year or so longer to find out what he's really like.

 

Okay, fair enough. Sorry for being defensive, I'm a bit exhausted right now and should probably be sleeping instead of posting anyway - that's my issue, not yours.

 

I agree with everything that you said, and yes, I still plan on giving it time before we do anything if the divorce is finalized.

 

Yes, the settlement is apparently to avoid a trial. If they can agree on the division of the assets, then they can just sign the settlement paper work, and it's a done deal. His attorney has written up a possible settlement, and they were meeting yesterday (were supposed to, but he thought it could be moved back bc his stbxw's attorney wanted to have a proposed settlement to present too). If they both agree on one of the settlements, or can come up with an agreed one between them, then the attorneys will write it up. And once they sign, the divorce is done. ExMM does not want to go to trial, and he believes that his stbxw doesn't either.

 

At this point, exMM has agreed to give up the house to her, and acquiesced on many other things. The last time I spoke to him, he was at the point where he was just "done" with it all. He was so frustrated with trying to discuss anything with her and her refusing (as she has done the entire marriage, according to him) that he just wanted to "get it over with at this point, so we can all just move on."

 

My guess is that unless the stbxw has some huge change of heart suddenly, that they will be divorced by the end of the year. Apparently, the state can take up to 90 days to finalize once they sign the paper work, but after signing the paper work, they can't "take it back" or back out. So, he could possibly be married for another 90 days after they agree on a settlement (or go to trial if they can't).

 

I would like to wait at least a year. I don't know if he will agree to that though in that he feels like he is "too old" to wait. He made a comment about his "good health slipping away" and that he doesn't want to waste it "waiting". Not that he meant that in regards to me, just in general. So, I'm guessing he isn't going to want to wait for very long, if at all. And, if that happens, not sure what I would do.

 

Like I said in another post, I am going back and forth. Some days I think that I would really like to give it a try with him. We do have a great connection, on so many levels. But other days, I think that I just want to be done with the whole thing. Tbh, I'm kind of hoping that they make decisions that don't require me to make any decisions. Simply bc I just don't want to have to make them. I know that's lazy, I know it's cowardly, but it really would be easier if they just stayed together and I didn't have to think about it anymore or ever again.

[2sunny]

I left wondering - with all the nice and wonderful men in the world - why are you leaving yourself at the mercy of him/his decision?

[AnotherRound]

I left wondering - with all the nice and wonderful men in the world - why are you leaving yourself at the mercy of him/his decision?

 

Oh, I'm not! I am dating still, have another date this coming weekend with a new guy that I have met. And just had a date with a wonderful guy that I've dated a bit over the past 6 months or so maybe? So, it's not dependent on him. But I know, that if they do not reconcile, he will show up at my door, and I WILL have to make some kind of decision. Take some kind of action. I'm really just hoping to avoid that, as it would be the easiest for me in reality.

 

So, right now, I'm just worrying mostly. Worrying about what may happen. If I felt like they would reconcile, and make it, it would be different. I wouldn't be thinking about it at all bc it wouldn't affect my life at all. But, if they divorce... then, he WILL show up here, he's already proven that by contacting me after a year and a half of not being in a relationship with me (in fact, having another relationship entirely!). It's that decision I dread right now. Having to choose whether or not to give a man that I love a chance in my life, openly. If I didn't love him, I could just wash my hands of it and say, nope. But that's the complication. I DO love him, and I believe that he loves me.

 

7 years is a LONG time to be with someone, regardless of the fact that the relationship was an A. There is love there, and connection, and history. And we have been through a lot together, as a couple. We have shared a lot together, as a couple. And the ONLY reason I ended it was bc it was an A. So, I basically walked away from a man that I love, that I connect with, that I wouldn't have ever walked away from in any other circumstance. So, if he's not married anymore - I'm not sure how I'm supposed to just walk away from that. Or, if I should. That's my struggle.

[2sunny]

Oh, I'm not! I am dating still, have another date this coming weekend with a new guy that I have met. And just had a date with a wonderful guy that I've dated a bit over the past 6 months or so maybe? So, it's not dependent on him. But I know, that if they do not reconcile, he will show up at my door, and I WILL have to make some kind of decision. Take some kind of action. I'm really just hoping to avoid that, as it would be the easiest for me in reality.

 

So, right now, I'm just worrying mostly. Worrying about what may happen. If I felt like they would reconcile, and make it, it would be different. I wouldn't be thinking about it at all bc it wouldn't affect my life at all. But, if they divorce... then, he WILL show up here, he's already proven that by contacting me after a year and a half of not being in a relationship with me (in fact, having another relationship entirely!). It's that decision I dread right now. Having to choose whether or not to give a man that I love a chance in my life, openly. If I didn't love him, I could just wash my hands of it and say, nope. But that's the complication. I DO love him, and I believe that he loves me.

 

7 years is a LONG time to be with someone, regardless of the fact that the relationship was an A. There is love there, and connection, and history. And we have been through a lot together, as a couple. We have shared a lot together, as a couple. And the ONLY reason I ended it was bc it was an A. So, I basically walked away from a man that I love, that I connect with, that I wouldn't have ever walked away from in any other circumstance. So, if he's not married anymore - I'm not sure how I'm supposed to just walk away from that. Or, if I should. That's my struggle.

 

I've had a friend very close to me over the years- who I was very connected with.

 

When he D and wanted to date me - I found it hard to date him since he had so much work to do to get in a healthy mindset.

 

He was a dear friend - but I'm much better off in retrospect - to not have been involved physically with him in the past 6-7 years. He's been a train wreck after his D ended.

 

Glad I kept my distance after agonizing over that decision. He blames everyone but himself. He thinks of no one but himself.

[Sauron]

Just realized you asked me a question here! Lol

 

Yes, exMM met my only sibling once (all of my family live in other states). He and I have spent time with mutual friends, and my best friend, who is my surrogate family

 

We live in a very small town, and made every effort to not flaunt our relationship around town as his wife and child live here too. His wife was aware of me, and my relationship with him. I don't think she was ever happy about it, but it didn't seem to bother her in that she never wanted to discuss it or confront it or try to interfere. I guess that's mainly why I didn't feel as bad as I could have, in that, she could have ended it with very few words to me, and I did give her chances to do so, and she chose not to. So, seemed to me, everyone was okay with it. I was probably the least okay with it, and he was probably the most okay with it, with his wife somewhere in the middle of us.

 

I never thought about wanting him full time, I'm pretty independent. But I don't really like sharing my SO. I guess it didn't bother me as much in this situation, if at all, bc I knew I was getting the best of him in many ways, in ways that they did not share. We both met very different needs for him, and although it wasn't ideal, it was ok... for 7 years.

 

Like I said, I am very interested in hearing more of your perspective.

 

 

I will be glad to answer resaonable questions:

 

1. My OW does not want a husband, she had 2 and they were catastrophes. She wants a lover and comapnionship. We have an agreement that when either one of us want to end it, there will be no drama, no fights, some sadness and then we move on.

 

2. I have built several businesses that include lots of assets, employees, customers etc. Getting a divorce would wreck havoc on many other peoples lives besides mine and my wife's. I stay for many reasons but this is a big one.

 

3. My OW, in the begining was very explicit, she never wants me to leave my current situation for her and will never ask me too. I told her that if that ever did happen, I would never get married to her or anyone. She is perfectly fine with that.

 

4. I also provide for OW finacially. I mean she is my mistress and I feel that I owe her that.

 

5. I take care of my wife. She has a life style she would not otherwise have and she is happy, more so because we don't fight about sex or much of anything anymore.

 

6. As I have mentioned, I have what was reffered to here as an OOW, but I only see her several times a year.

 

Regarding conflict avoidant, or passive agressive, there is no conflict with me. As I have posted here many times we are all settled into a realtionship groove. It was a bit difficult the first few years, but I am very adaptable. I ended up here out of an intellectual curiosity about the psychology of being the OW from a google search.

[Sauron]

Sauron...you're just going to keep on cheating behind your wife's back?? I cannot believe this. You need to make a choice. Where is your integrity?

 

 

I did make a choice. I choose to have a wife, an OW and once in a while a OOW, that is my choice.

[Sauron]

What about your wife's choice? Why don't you give her a choice and tell her what you're up to? Are you using a condom with these other women? Or are you bringing home every disease under the sun home to your poor wife?

 

She is not poor. I have never had an STD, I get tested regualrly. My wife is free to leave whenever she wants and we have had the conversation. I have told her numerous times over the marriage if she can't give me what I want I will find it elsewhere, and did. She has responsibility for my A just like all BS have some responsbility. If you don't think so, you are all in denial.

[2sunny]

She is not poor. I have never had an STD, I get tested regualrly. My wife is free to leave whenever she wants and we have had the conversation. I have told her numerous times over the marriage if she can't give me what I want I will find it elsewhere, and did. She has responsibility for my A just like all BS have some responsbility. If you don't think so, you are all in denial.

 

But have you specifically told your wife you have other women? Have you admitted up front to HER that you cheat?

[2sunny]

I would be left wondering IF that OW really cared or if she was just getting paid to be available emotionally to you and paid to have sex.

[Sauron]

I would be left wondering IF that OW really cared or if she was just getting paid to be available emotionally to you and paid to have sex.

 

What difference does that make, I will tell you what it makes to me, it makes none to me. We all have our motivation. It works for us. You are thinking ALL or nothing like the majority of you do.