Changing meds for OCD..and a good new doc

[johan]

OK, I give. You were writing your last post while I was writing mine. You responded to most of mine already.

 

Now that you've brought AD/HD, seratonin, and hormones into it, I'll have to go do some homework.

[moimeme]

And therefore acceptable

 

You do understand I'm not saying anything is 'acceptable'. It just is and has to be contended with.

 

I can't understand anyone who wouldn't feel that way under the circumstances, or who could live with it.

 

Well there you go. But why not? If you *know* that she actually can't stop it and that she would if she could and that it's not a choice on her part to do it, why can't you get your feelings to adjust accordingly.?

 

Without question, Thinkalot would stop the behaviour if she could. Bunnyboy knows it - but it still gets to him.

 

This is the conundrum I was never able to solve. Cognitive theory says we should be able to reason our way out of feelings. This is why cognitive theory only works so well. It definitely can help some people to change certain thoughts but other types of thoughts - maybe the ones most strongly connected to deep emotion? - steadfastly resist change.

[johan]

You do understand I'm not saying anything is 'acceptable'. It just is and has to be contended with.

You do understand that you're accepting it. You aren't calling for change or any sort of self-control on his part. I am. I'm saying if he views it as unacceptable, then it's within his power to reject it, as hard as that may be.

 

If you *know* that she actually can't stop it and that she would if she could and that it's not a choice on her part to do it, why can't you get your feelings to adjust accordingly.?

I'm not saying he should change his feelings. That isn't completely out of the question, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying he should change his response. I know some level of anger and frustration will be there no matter what. But he has a choice how to express them, and he should choose with an eye toward his long term plans with Thinkalot and/or his self-respect.

[meanon]

Thinkalot, the plan to double the dose is a good one. If the Doctor told you that you could do this yourself before seeing her then do it now, it takes a while for the dose change to work. You have YEARS to sort out the sex drive problem . First things first..... being healthy and getting married! You may be able to come off the meds completely one day. I know others who skip doses rather than having permanently low dose to get around this problem. You have options.

 

originally posted by Johan:

We're arguing two different things here. One: is it understandable how he feels and why he responds like he does. Two: Is it acceptable to respond like that (regardless of the circumstances).

 

That's a really useful distinction, for both of you. Make sure he understands it. Many years ago I lived with someone who does not generally have an anger management problem but became very aggressive at times when they couldn't cope.

 

once you start to give in to the anger, it comes too easily after that. And too much of that kind of anger can kill love.

 

Also very true, Johan. Once you cross that line it gets easier and easier every time - becomes almost inevitable in fact. Yes it's understandable but it must become an explicit rule in your relationship that it can not happen. Make yourself leave if it does, Thinkalot. Just leave the house if that's where you are. Disengage.

 

I'm sorry you're so low, Thinkalot. Things will be very different when you are well and there's no reason you shouldn't stay well. You'll have that happy ending

[Thinkalot]

Thank you everyone for the kind words, and helpful analysis.

[moimeme]

You do understand that you're accepting it.

 

Sorry, but you're wrong.

 

You aren't calling for change or any sort of self-control on his part.

 

Wrong again. I'm talking about one specific situation in which he attempts to do just that and cannot because he gets cornered. Next time you find you can't take it any longer at your gfs and go to leave, picture yourself prevented from leaving. The normal and proper response, when someone finds himself extremely angry, is to exit the situation. If he is physically prevented from doing so, he has lost his last coping mechanism.

 

BTW, preventing someone from leaving a place when he wants to is actually considered a form of abuse. If he was doing that to her, everyone would be up in arms. I think gender often colours peoples' responses to these situations.

 

I am. I'm saying if he views it as unacceptable, then it's within his power to reject it, as hard as that may be.

 

Tell you what. You live with your gf for two years and then come back and explain how you managed to do what the vast majority of partners of these people have immense difficulty doing, no matter how much they wish to. In fact, write a book because so far nobody has figured out the solution to this situation.

 

If I had had the good sense to follow my strongest interests and gone into psych, I'd be researching it right now.

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by johan

I'm not saying he should change his feelings. That isn't completely out of the question, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying he should change his response. I know some level of anger and frustration will be there no matter what. But he has a choice how to express them, and he should choose with an eye toward his long term plans with Thinkalot and/or his self-respect.

Amen Johan. Thanks.

 

And as Thinkalot (and others) have tried to point out, this behavior does not occur only when he is cornered and cannot leave. He does it on the phone and at other times as well. Cursing and name-calling is not okay. Let's call a spade a spade and stop blaming Thinkalot for all of it.

 

Secondly, we're talking about OCD here, not AD/HD, aren't we? I'm confused as to how this subject got injected into the thread.

 

I know many people who live with or are married to people with bipolar disorder, another mental illness. They do not curse at, call nasty names or push and shove their spouses. It is not a given with people who are "caregivers" (someone else's word) to sick people. It is not the norm. It is NOT okay or justified. Period.

[Thinkalot]

HI all...I've taken the day off work today, as I just feel so run down....so in a sense, I have run away, just for the day!

 

Just curious, after reading all the responses here...what is the next step??

 

Obviously, I take steps to ensure I control MY behaviour better, and make sure I do not ever chase, or corner him. I fix up my meds. I remind myself of all the things I have learnt, as ways to control my thoughts, or impulses to go on, and try and ensure I do those things. I assure my love I understand how hard this is for him, and that I love him, and want to make life easier for him. I try to actually make life easier for him. I try to not worry about the situation with my mum, or interfere and try and 'fix' the relationship between him and mum (very hard...as he is so angry about it now, and she is hoping things will be OK...so I really do want him to try and forgive a bit ...and her to forgive, etc)

 

What else? Bunnyboy was away last night for work...he has not seen this thread yet, although he will want to have a look at it. When I see him face to face, do we discuss both my behaviour AND his?? What do I suggest re his behaviour? Anything at all? Do I mention the times he swears/name calls without trying to disengage? The times when he gets so frustrated with me so quickly, that within a few sentences he's calling me an idiot, or worse? On those occassions I often point out that he's swearig, or name calling, and at the time, he justifies it, saying "well, you are going on, and deliberately not understanding me, so what do you expect??" He won't listen to me, as I am already not worth listening to in his eyes at that point in time. I also can't stand him getting so angry about mum, that he calls her names. She may not be perfect, but she isn't an ogre either, and she is still my mother.

Now, as moi has pointed out, a person can simmer just under boiling point, whichlatelt he has been. But I ask again, do I mention that, and his swearing etc, and discuss some ways we might be able to reduce that? ie, that he actually tries to register me pointing out when it's happening, and if he can't stop, leave or hang up (I obviously have to let him do so).

 

moi, I'd be most interested to hear your views on this one, considering your viewpoints, and understanding of what it can feel like to be on his side of the fence. I'd also like to hear from the others who have been chatting here.

 

I don't want to stuff up in my approach when I do see him and we sit down to talk...but neither do i want to short change myself I guess.

 

Thanks so much everyone. Your support and words mean a lot.

[gaia]

Hi Thinkalot. Haven't been around for a while, but was asking after you the other day and meanon put me onto this thread.

 

Firstly, I can understand the frustration about the sexual problems, but I think you have to make a tough decision about current priorities. As your doctor said, OCD often does need higher doses of medication to control it. I don't know what your current meds are ( life would be easier if the names weren't different in every country!) but I was (am) on Lustral/Zoloft/sertraline and needed 200mg ( the maximum dose) to get on top of the illness in the early stages. Whatever it is you're on, my suspicion is that half a tablet is probably woefully sub-therapeutic. Look on the box - is there another name - more scientific sounding. If I knew what it was, I might know what kind of dose you're taking. I really think your priority has to be getting the obsessing under control.

 

There's a lot of discussion about who is "to blame". I don't think either of you are. Maybe you shouldn't pursue him round the house when he needs space, but you are driven by a need for absolute certainty that's so hard to fight. Believe me, I know. Unfortunately, BB's response is exactly the opposite of what you need. It just makes you even more unsure. On the other hand, I can understand BB's reaction. I like moi's analogy of the thermometer - I'm sure that's how he feels. OK, so he shouldn't react as he does, but he is pushed to the edge too.

 

The situation has developed into a vicious circle and the only way to deal with it is to break the cycle somewhere. The most obvious thing is to stop the obsessing with medication. If you get onto a decent therapeutic dose, it can actually stop the thoughts completely. Apparently, it doesn't for everyone, but it did for me and a lot of others I know.

 

As for the lack of sex drive/anorgasmia, I would be inclined to tell BB that your first concern is to get the OCD under control and that this might affect your sex life for a while. Most men get upset about a partner's lack of interest because they think it somehow reflects on them. He may be more understanding if he knows it's just a common side-effect of meds. In the long term, who knows. the pharmaceutical industry may well come up with an effective treatment that doesn't blast the receptors that control sex drive. There are already anti-depressants that don't do this (and still work on serotonin) but I don't think they are proven to be of benefit in OCD yet. Also, a year or two of not obsessing breaks the habit and if you have CBT during this time you may well be able to get off meds or at least reduce them to a small dose.

 

Finally, don't think badly of yourself for needing them. I think of mine now as like HRT. It's a chemical deficiency which I correct with tablets. I know that this is the real me. I'm no psycho!

 

Please email me if you want to talk about it. I'd love to hear from you again.

 

All the best. I'm thinking of you.

[Thinkalot]

Thank so much gaia for responding. The meds I am on: fluvoxamine maleate 100mg tablets (so I am taking 50mg a day at present).

I will email you soon...actually can you PM me your email again? (in case I've lost it).

[moimeme]

What do I suggest re his behaviour? Anything at all?

 

Nope. The best way to deal with problems is to let the other person make the suggestions. Wouldn't you rather be the one to come up with ways you can change than have him tell you? Offer suggestions as part of the discussion but let him make whatever suggestions he needs to and love them all. One of your other compulsions is to make everything perfect but you can't make him perfect. That's his job, with your support.

 

He is not going to be rid of this buildup of stress today, tomorrow, or next week. The solution to this problem is to get those stress levels down and keep them down. He, despite what people seem to think, didn't create it or cause it and he's no more able to just make it all go away than you are to just make the OCD go away.

 

If you want a gross example, think of a healing wound that keeps getting ripped open over and over. You have to give it some time to heal without being re-wounded. You have to somehow quit adding extra stresses on top of the ones he has - and I mean 'you' plural. That means zero questions, and no chasing. If you have to restrict calls and visits with your mother to zero for two or three weeks, do it. You are now in emergency mode. Which means the life of the relationship is threatened so extreme measures have to be taken.

 

Maybe you should give up a couple of these trips so he won't have to work so hard for the money. Between you, you have to come up with a solution to the stress. And if part of it is you upping your meds, which the others seem to think may help a great deal, then go for it. And, if need be, one of you get out of the house for a couple of weeks.

 

As for the other remarks:

 

Let's call a spade a spade and stop blaming Thinkalot for all of it.

 

I'm not. You, typically, deliberately misunderstand me. I don't appreciate it. Thinkalot, you know that's not the case. And I don't know what 'spade' you are trying to call, but if he has not had any anger problems before, that there's no 'spade' to call, here.

 

Secondly, we're talking about OCD here, not AD/HD, aren't we? I'm confused as to how this subject got injected into the thread.

 

Go read all the threads on this. You've missed a lot.

[Thinkalot]

HI Merry. Thank you. I'll follow that advice.

 

Just got off the phone to my mother. Not pleasant. During our conversation, I told her my fiance knew some of the things she had said, and was upset and angry about it. I told her this, hopinig she would realise, and pull back a bit, and also because BunnyBoy said if I didn't say something soon, he would. And that would NOT be pretty. Mum was upset with me, for making it into a bigger deal, and causing more tension, and for talking about some of what she said with my fiance. She said I've made things uncomfortable. It really is not my fault however. She wants peace, however her actions can make that quite difficult. Anyway, tiime to let it lie now, and hope for the best. If it means having a bit more distance, so be it. Also time to make sure doesn't have to keep hearing anything about it. I realise that. If I can accept things as they are, and not push them to be friends, and not push either one of them to change, it may just be easier on me, and easier all round. Mum may be hurt and upset underneath, but that is not my problem to fix. Heck, I'm hurt and upset underneath too, but she isn't fixing that for me!

 

Having this day off work is giving me a chance to catch up on some housework, and think. And rest.

 

Re the meds...I have been taking only a 1/4 of the dose gaia said she was originally taking. Could be part of the problem.

 

My aim now: be calm, shut up, get control of the OCD, and try and provide my love with a nice place to come home to.

[Thinkalot]

My love just had a huge bunch of flowers delivered to our home for me!!! To cheer ME up...what a sweetie

[moimeme]

 

This is why I personally would be crushed if you two broke up!

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by moimeme

As for the other remarks:

 

Let's call a spade a spade and stop blaming Thinkalot for all of it.

 

I'm not. You, typically, deliberately misunderstand me. I don't appreciate it.

First of all, please don't address me in a personally attacking way. I do not "deliberately misunderstand" you. I simply disagree. Sorry if you don't appreciate that.

 

Furthermore, this is not about you and me, it's about Thinkalot and her fiance. Please remember that.

 

And I don't know what 'spade' you are trying to call, but if he has not had any anger problems before, that there's no 'spade' to call, here.

The spade I'm referring to is his abusive behavior. Making excuses for him doesn't help anyone. Go back to posts from December, 2003, and you will see that his "anger problems" were very apparent then also. It's not something new.

 

Secondly, we're talking about OCD here, not AD/HD, aren't we? I'm confused as to how this subject got injected into the thread.

 

Go read all the threads on this. You've missed a lot.

I don't believe I have time to go back and read every single thread on this forum. Who knows what you're referring to exactly. I know that Thinkalot has been diagnosed with OCD, not AD/HD. I also know that you tend to interject AD/HD into threads every time you get a chance. In this case, it is not relevant. That was my point.

 

Thinkalot, I'm sure the flowers made your day. I'm happy for you. I hope you feel better soon.

[Thinkalot]

Thanks ladyangel...they did actually.

 

If I may also say, you are quite right in saying there were anger problems last year...we nearly broke up just before xmas actually...that was just before I started treatment, and my fiance was at breaking point then also. Not making excuses, and saying it's right, or good...just describing the context.

[moimeme]

That's just it - it *is* a longstanding situation. If it was new, it'd be easier to deal with.

 

I also know that you tend to interject AD/HD into threads every time you get a chance. In this case, it is not relevant. That was my point.

 

Four percent of everyone has it - that's as much as the numbers who are depressed, according to some physicians. That is a LOT of people.

 

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=219012#post219012

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=219038#post219038

 

Of course, if you prefer, we could go back to thinking that all mental disorders are just wrong thinking and the fault of the sufferer and so offer no help whatsoever. Me, I figure if there's a solvable problem, then it's a real good idea to find it and solve it. That ought not be so radical.

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by moimeme Thinkalot's partner doesn't lose it until she disregards his requests to leave him alone and foils his attempts to leave the scene. That is the critical piece here.

It seems that every time one of your points is proven wrong, such as this one, you just move on to another. Hmmm

 

I also know that you tend to interject AD/HD into threads every time you get a chance. In this case, it is not relevant. That was my point.

Four percent of everyone has it - that's as much as the numbers who are depressed, according to some physicians. That is a LOT of people.

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=219012#post219012

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=219038#post219038

Now you're reaching. I've read those. I still don't see anywhere, since Thinkalot has been posting, where she's said she has been diagnosed by her doctor and is being treated for AD/HD. She has been diagnosed and is being treated for OCD, which is the topic of THIS thread.

 

 

Of course, if you prefer, we could go back to thinking that all mental disorders are just wrong thinking and the fault of the sufferer and so offer no help whatsoever. Me, I figure if there's a solvable problem, then it's a real good idea to find it and solve it. That ought not be so radical.

I haven't a clue who or what you're talking about at this point. If you will go back and read all my previous posts (as you tend to demand others do), you will see that is not my way of thinking at all. I'm all for diagnosing and treating mental disorders. Medications improve lives a lot. So does therapy. So does an understanding and supportive partner.

 

What I'm NOT for is putting the blame for everything wrong in a relationship squarely on the shoulders of the person with a disorder, to the exclusion of looking at yourself and your problems and working on solving them as well.

[Thinkalot]

Thinkalot waves white flag

 

Truce ladies, I can see the points you are BOTH making.

[ladyangel]

Thanks Thinkalot. Keep us posted on the new medication. I hope it works for you (and your sex life).

[Thinkalot]

Me too!! Will do

[meanon]

Thinkalot, have you finished the CBT? I was thinking about the difficulty you have in giving some space when arguing. It's the need for certainty and resolution. As it's so common with this condition, there are specific techniques they suggest. Did you cover it before? If not, it's worth asking for a referral for some more CBT.

[Thinkalot]

I have finished the CBT yes...but have been wondering if I need a refresher of some of the techniques I was given...

 

I know what I am supposed to do...but perhaps a reminder would not go astray

 

A close friend is a counsellor, and I had a long chat with her the other night, which also helped calm me back down, also in relation to issues with mum

[meanon]

That's great . More CBT may help if you haven't needed to use the techniques for a while or because you have never had the benefit of the full therapeutic dose combined with CBT. It's worth thinking about once the meds have settled again.

[sinkerswim]

thats good to hear you are feeling beter.

I have OCD big time and it led to my fiance leaving me.

 

My psychiatrist put me on a very high dose of zoloft. For the depression AND OCD.

Im also on a couple other things to deal with my depresssion and racing thoughts.