Wife left- Third Time 18 Years I'm OK

[revitup]

Update,today(12/19/2012) STBXWW is pushing even harder for me to spend the night,have dinner together and watch a movie, when I go there this Friday to pick up our DD14 for her holiday break.

 

STBXWW is using all of her charm.This is not a hard decision like it once would have been.

 

That being said,I am beating around the bush about it all. I have tried to get her to just come out of town 30 minutes at least.She asks "don't you want to see me and have a good night with dinner and a movie?".I simply make excuses and try to keep it from happening.

 

I hate not being direct and to the point,I am justifying my actions by thinking that I might cause the STBXWW to backout of the visit for the holidays with my DD14.I can't risk that.

 

My STBXWW hasn't once called and wanted to talk about our relationship or how I am doing.Not once has she called "just to call".Not once has she spoken about why she left,nor what her plans are.

 

I will not stay the night and go backwards emotionally.I have worked hard to overcome this hurt.

 

I sure hope I am right on this one.

[revitup]

Friday Dec 21 2012.

 

I leave for the five hour ride to pick up my little DD14.I am a little anxious as the ride begins and thinking of all of the possible snares which the STBXWW has set for me.

 

I get there and meet the STBXWW and DD14 outside of a fast food restaurant.We small talk and load her things into my car as I load the remainder of the STBXWW's clothes into hers.Five minutes max.

 

All goes well and I am getting into my car to bring my little girl home to North Carolina for our holiday visit.As I am getting into my car,the STBXWW says "I don't get a hug?".I give her a hug,actually I just let her hug me.She was wearing some tank top thing (it's freezing btw) that had her boobies hanging all over the place and she looked like a hooker.

 

I notice that my DD14 has a lip piercing now!!!!!This is not in my plan.I say nothing except that I wish this didn't happen.

 

Well we get away and on to I 95 for the five hour ride back to NC.After only ten minutes my little DD14 says "Daddy I have to tell you something that will hurt you,mommy said not to,but I have to tell you even though it will hurt you Daddy".

 

DD14 then relays a chain of events that are the worst things any person could ever imagine.

 

My DD14 then starts telling me....41 yr old STBXWW is,

 

1. never at home,STBXWW comes home at 4:30 am - 6:30 am.

 

2. using C/L to pick up guys.Lots of guys!

 

3.showing DD14 the pictures and asking her opinion.

 

4.showing DD14 these men's nude sexual pics sent by text messages to STBXWW.

 

5.is going to bars and clubs everyday,even picking up men, women and couples,to go out behind dumpsters in the parking lot and have sex.

 

6.is going to fly to Atlanta to meet a man she met on C/L who "wants someone to spoil"?

 

7.is telling my DD14 that it's ok to smoke pot,as long as she keeps the line of communication open!

 

8.is embarrassing our DD14 by making crude and sexual comments about any men she sees any where.Even my DD14's new guidance counselor!

 

9.is behaving as a teenager.

 

10.is drinking and driving with my DD14 in the car.

 

11.is always carrying beer and alcohol in the trunk of her car.

 

12.is dating the stranger who went out to the dumpster with the other woman and had sex withy them both.(he dates several ladies according to DD14).

 

13.is always looking into the mirror and asking my DD14 how her rear end and her boobs are looking.

 

14.is having flings with several men in the community in order to get phones,money,drinks and anything else she wants.

 

15.is meeting men from C/L at Wally world and doesn't even know their names.

 

16.has left my DD14 alone at the new house she rented last week,even though the rented basement (rented to someone else) at the house, was broken into and robbed by masked men this week!!!Twice!!!

 

17.is always out with a "group of suspicious women"who look like hookers.

 

18.never pays DD14 any attention at all anymore.

 

19.constantly trashes and lies about me!DD14 is smarter than that.

 

20.is making up lies about everything she talks about involving our relationship.

 

21.said in front of my DD14 and several relatives (before she went wayward)"nothing good came from our 18 yr relationship,nothing!"Which hurt my DD14 and the others as well.

 

22.neglects all medical appointments for my DD14.Simply "forgets".

 

23.plays any man she can for attention,even bragging that 53 men in only one day, have "wanted her" on C/L!!To my DD14.And showing DD14.

 

24.wants to be "friends" with my DD14.

 

25.says that I am always stalking her?(5 hours away?)

 

Well there is much more and you will see a pattern emerging quickly here.How a woman goes from a decent person to this in only a few months,is a mystery to me.

 

Now for the punch line......

 

DD14 tells me that she needs a parent,not a friend.She says she wants to tell me the worst thing!!!

 

My DD14 breaks my heart at this time (wow that lip piercing ain't so bad at this point!).She tells me that she has went from an honor student to DEPRESSION.

 

My DD14 tells me that she has "cut herself " 75 times on her arms and 253 times on her legs.I am in tears now but hold the emotions inside and let her speak.(we still have three hours to get home at this point).

 

She cut the word "FAILURE" into her little leg.I am shattered and still stay cool.I do not know how.I am literally in deep shock at this point.

 

DD14 tells me that STBXWW has known about this behavior for months and has done nothing to get her some help.Instead the STBXWW says "you are ruining yourself and if you do not stop,I will take your phone away!" I am P.O.'ed now,but hold it.

 

My DD14 says "Dad,I didn't realize how much I needed structure and boundaries,until I had been around mom alone".She then says "mom just wants to be my friend in order to never loose me to you". DD14 then says " I know you love me Dad,you give me stability and boundaries and that's what I need".She tells me that she wants to be checked out (my suggestion).

 

DD14 says her mother didn't care enough about her to have her checked out and dismissed her concerns.DD14 says that she knows why I am about to do what I ask her (hospital visit and exam).She says that it shows that I love her.I cry.

 

Well I don't even hesitate,we head straight for the Hospital in Fay,NC.If I were to have came home,I see this STBXWW blaming me somehow.We get in at 3am and I don't leave until 11am on Sat Dec 22 2012.I am in shock at this point and crying as they take my DD14 into a "secure" exam room.My heart is broken in little pieces as the staff is searching her and removing all sharp objects from the exam room.I feel like I may have made a mistake at this point.It could be that they would "commit" my daughter.

 

It all goes very well however,and the Psych Docs come in and tell me this,"you have a brave little girl,she was doing these things due to the extreme stress placed on her by her mother.She was courageous in telling you about these things and the cutting".She isn't to blame,my STBXWW is the one causing this to happen.

 

They say the cutting was "a cry for help" and her mother didn't care.They say that DD14 was in need of someone to listen and that was me.This was very hard.

 

DD14 has always been a great student,all honors classes.She is way ahead of her age in her ability to reason.She tells me that her sister (21) is just as bad as her mother,smoking pot and partying all night.She lets me know that she (DD14) is more responsible than her sister and her mother.

 

The thing is that this has backfired on the STBXWW.The Dr's had already called the S.C. Child Protective Services and scheduled an investigation for this week.They told me that under no circumstances is my little girl to return to her mother.

 

My DD14 says that she does not want to go back to her mother.She says that STBXWW and her sister had told her not to stay here with me after the two week Christmas vacation.I know they knew I would find out about these things going on and as a result would never return DD14 to that environment.

 

My STBXWW was a wonderful and loving person,a great wife and mother....in the beginning.She is not the same person now and I can't believe the person she has developed into at this point.It is none of my business anymore.I will not even consider ever going into a friendship with her,somehow,I knew this would be the case from the start.I prepared myself and now it is just business.

 

Now,I have taken all steps to ensure her safety and her health care.Scheduling Psych Dr and follow ups.I have also retained council,alerted authorities and planned ahead for the upcoming week's drama.

 

My LS friends,the cheaters always lie and deceive us,we have to be aware of the fact that they are always scheming and that we have to plan appropriately.

 

Like so many here,I didn't want to think there was another man in the picture,but I accepted it from the beginning.Turns out I was wrong....there are several dozen men!!!!!

 

Anyway,it's important for me to write.It helps me to be calm.I have had 8 hrs sleep after the 42 hrs of torture.I just want you to know that we all have the same problems,and we can all choose the reaction we have to those problems.

 

Bottomline.....This was a BLESSING!!!I have saved thousands in atty fees and have been vindicated at the same time.

 

I have my daughter!!!!!!

 

REVITUP

[dreamingoftigers]

My God!

 

I have to run but I wanted to write a quick response.

 

Thank goodness you are getting her out of there!

 

You are a great Dad!

[revitup]

Dreamin' Thank you for the support.

 

It's actually worse than I have put in this post so far.I will think of a way to put it all on here today.

 

I am still in a numb state.It seems like a dream.

[revitup]

There are some great things happening around me and my DD14 this week.

 

My daughter's friend says "your dad seems cooler now"!

My daughter says "everything seems slower and clearer around us"!

I am feeling the most serenity I have personally felt in many,many years.A peaceful and calm feeling.

 

We are no longer "walking on eggshells" and as a result,it makes everything feel better.This STBXWW has had a depressing effect on myself and my daughter for years without me really seeing it for what it was.That's over for good.

 

Gunny was right about me before I really knew it,I wasn't going.....I was already gone!!!!!

 

The best Christmas gift ever is getting my DD14 back!!!!

The second best....getting myself back.

[Mystery2Me]

Congratulations Revitup!! Thank you for sharing your good news with us, it's wonderful to see that good things are still possible.

[Justtiredofit]

REVITUP...YOU ARE MY HERO!

 

You are in the SAME exact situation I am in, except we are approaching 20 years together, and 19 years marriage. And my wife asked me to leave after I pushed her for a definitive answer.

 

She was texting one of my best friends, and still had "an attraction" to him. So I left and then told him ALL about it. He was livid. Said when she texted him, he only gave her spiritual advice about how to keep her marriage. She texted him that she was humiliated that I told him al that. He responded that she used him as a pawn in a game that he wants no part of, and to please leave him alone.

 

She texted angry texts to me about how I made all this up, etc. I told her with all the lies and manipulation, I wanted nothing more to do with her.

 

Well, on Christmas Eve, I sent a text saying that people said we should be separated for a while b4 we pull the trigger (divorce petition has been put on hold for over a year, 60 day waiting period is passed, so when she signs the agreement, the divorce will be final in 4-5 days). So I figured with that, we should wait until the dust settles to be prudent about 19 years, and would she be up for that? No response. MISTAKE, I know I broke my own NC!

 

Then yesterday when there was no response, I told her that I would not move forward with the divorce papers b/c of what people have said, but if she wanted to she was free to do so. SECOND BIG MISTAKE!

 

So I'm thinking now, (because you have inspired me REVITUP), that I should drive to her mother's house tonight and deliver the papers. And then just text her that I tried to do what others have said, but I just can't , please sign the papers and return the to my attorney asap. Thank you.

 

Thoughts?

[revitup]

I was (still am) married for 18 yrs,19 together as well as you.Not for long though (NC has 1yr separation).

 

My brother,I am happy to inspire you.You can bet that the X you are dealing with has no intention of being honest at all.At least mine wasn't and hasn't been.

 

I am finding out new information by the minute.It's painful but necessary for my daughter to get it all out as well my own healing.Some people will try and get you to believe you are the one who is "crazy"....don't bite,unless you are crazy!

 

I would (if it were me) get the papers signed immediately.If she loved you she wouldn't leave you.They will rationalize away all responsibility on their parts.That's OK,just do your own thing.

 

Don't be afraid to have a life and an opinion.You and all of us here are either made stronger by this thing or we fall apart.It's just that simple.

 

My DD14 says I am so different now,that I am calmer and more decisive.More cool!This is wonderful.I say this to give you hope of a better future.It isn't a pipe dream.I am better now than I have been in many,many years.The only thing I really think about as to our "relationship",is why I chose her in the first place.We are total opposites in all aspects.I no longer recognize my wife.

 

Just know there is a way.You just have to believe in you!Your X doesn't want you to see things for yourself if she is like mine.She just wants to use the love and affection you have for your family ,as the very weapon to be deployed against you.

 

 

 

The 180's and NC are the only way to get your mind back and it is... YOUR mind.Make her pay rent if she wants to be in your mind any longer.She has to earn the right to be in your mind now!

 

You will be stronger and more decisive once you find your plan and COMMITT to it! Commitment is like the bacon and egg breakfast....the chicken was involved but the pig was committed!

 

Bottom line....make a decision using all that you know and stick with it.

 

HAPPY "NEW" YEAR:)

 

REVITUP

[Justtiredofit]

Thank you so much Rev! I did deliver the papers last night. I felt empowered when I did so.

 

My only regret is that last week, I told her bc of her behavior, lying, continual lying after she was busted, etc, I wanted nothing more to do with her. She then said "Fine, then get rid of all my pics that you have of me. I know you kept them when you were running after that other woman." I became angry and told her that I got rid of them a long time ago, and that I wouldn't touch her now if she were the last woman on this earth. She said "You are so ugly to me...."

 

I really did not mean to say that, it was the opposite of how I truly feel. But I said it to make her think she could no longer have me (she seems to respond really well when she thinks she can't have me). She has always tried to get her stepfather's attention who has done nothing but reject her for 32 years. So I'm using this same approach. I know.....manipulation. But then again, so is 180 in a sense (sorta).

 

Is this false guilt I am feeling? Or did I say something that may have permanently damaged us?

[revitup]

I made some slips along the way as well,we all make mistakes.There is no real way to know whether it matters until the end. I don't know your particular situation.I will look up your posts.

 

It's ok to make mistakes (not talking about cheating etc).

 

Do not fall into the guilt trap.Now,on the other hand, if you are guilty of something.... that isn't guilt,it's conviction.

 

Just having a plan to do something,anything,was somehow empowering to me.

 

As far as the 180's and NC,you shouldn't use them to manipulate your wife.It's not a game.The 180's and the NC rules are to help YOU!You need to get your head straight,not manipulate your wife or anyone else.

 

What is your goal?You can't make someone love or trust you.You simply have to be your best and let that show to those around you.Don't think that the end is going to be the way you think it should be.

 

It's OK to plan....just don't plan the outcome.

 

You can do this!

 

REVITUP

[bpdr]

 

Well we get away and on to I 95 for the five hour ride back to NC.After only ten minutes my little DD14 says "Daddy I have to tell you something that will hurt you,mommy said not to,but I have to tell you even though it will hurt you Daddy".

 

 

This would have did it for me...my gosh what the hell is going on with your STBXW?? Revitup this is horrible news. Worse than I thought - as it really sounds like she has gone off the deep end. What is your plan to extract your child from this situation?

[dreamingoftigers]

This would have did it for me...my gosh what the hell is going on with your STBXW?? Revitup this is horrible news. Worse than I thought - as it really sounds like she has gone off the deep end. What is your plan to extract your child from this situation?

 

She's extracted from it.

[revitup]

Bpder,I have the DD14 and she is not going back.The STBXWW doesn't know ...yet!

 

The Dr's won't allow it and the law has sent a Child Protective Services investigation to the STBXWW's house.It will get bad then.

 

I just read Soon2Bx and Downtown's reply and I am amazed at the accuracy of the list of BPD symptoms,they all and I mean all match my STBXWW.

 

Wow this site is good.

Thank you all.

REVITUP

[Gunny376]

Bpder,I have the DD14 and she is not going back.The STBXWW doesn't know ...yet!

 

The Dr's won't allow it and the law has sent a Child Protective Services investigation to the STBXWW's house.It will get bad then.

 

I just read Soon2Bx and Downtown's reply and I am amazed at the accuracy of the list of BPD symptoms,they all and I mean all match my STBXWW.

 

Wow this site is good.

Thank you all.

REVITUP

 

Just to give you a little added assurance on the DD14 staying with you?

 

1. She's 14 and of the age that pretty much any judge in the country is going to take what she has to stay and what her preferences are into consideration. Especially after she tells them about the STBXW and what's been going on, the Dr's testomony, the outcome of CPS investigation.

 

2. Women are awarded custody 90% of the time primarly because men don't pursue primary custody! But in the 10% of the times that men do pursue custody of the children? They're awarded it 90% of the time.

 

You've got a good handle on things Revitup! Now its time to get up! Get the get that "Get Down Feeling!" and "Keep On Getting It On!" Time for you the DD14 to get out there and live life to its fullest and rub a little sunshine on yur' faces! OOOoooooooraaaahhhhh! GET SOME!~~~~~

[Downtown]

I just read Soon2Bx and Downtown's reply and I am amazed at the accuracy of the list of BPD symptoms....

Rev, I'm glad to hear that you found the BPD information useful. Of course, you won't be able to diagnose your W's issues. Only professionals can do that. You nonetheless will be able to spot the red flags (i.e., strong BPD traits that are occurring) if you take time to learn what behaviors to look for. There is nothing subtle about traits such as temper tantrums, rapid flips between adoring and devaluing you, verbal abuse, inability to trust, always being "The Victim," and lack of impulse control.

Her mother allowing numerous men into their bed (they shared one bed when my wife was 7-8 yrs old)having sex with them in front of my wife as a child.Or that those men sexually abused her at the time.Which they did.

Most abused children do not develop BPD but such abuse GREATLY raises the risk of doing so -- especially when the child has been sexually abused at a young age. Moreover, 70% of BPDers report that they were abused or abandoned (or had an emotionally unavailable mother) in childhood.

various boyfriends who abused her in her late teens by having her strip,escort and sell her body for the crack cocaine

Studies indicate that 60 to 80% of strippers were sexual abused in childhood and that 55% of strippers have full-blown BPD. See (pub. 1999) If pornography made us healthy, we would be healthy by now :: Catholic News Agency.

My W said she wasn't going to take her meds anymore.

Meds are useful for treating bipolar disorder because it is caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. With BPD, however, meds won't make even a dent because the disorder arises from damage to the emotional core in early childhood. Although it is common for meds to be prescribed to BPDers, these meds are intended to treat only the associated anxiety or depression -- not the BPD traits themselves.

The Dr told me to look up "projection."

Rev, BPDers typically experienced a childhood trauma that froze their emotional development at the level of a four year old. They therefore rely, for ego defense, on the primitive defenses available to a young child. These include projection, magical thinking, lying, denial, black-white thinking, and temper tantrums. The two defenses they rely most heavily on are projection and black-white thinking.

She is charming and loving when she is not "manic."

I have not seen any descriptions of mania in your threads. As I explained in Michael's thread (i.e., ZxExD's thread), mania is a sign of bipolar, not BPD. But, if you are sure you are seeing mania, your W could have strong traits of both BPD and bipolar. About a fourth of BPDers also suffer from bipolar-1 disorder. See Table 2 at Prevalence, Correlates, Disability, and Comorbidity of DSM-IV Borderline Personality Disorder: Results from the Wave 2 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions.

She had a spell on me or something.

No, no, no. She has no power over you, Rev, so you cannot blame all this on her. The toxic marriage is not something that SHE has been doing to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH were doing to each other. If you were the average normal guy, you would have enjoyed the intensely passionate courtship period for about 6 months, you would have spent an additional 6 to 12 months trying to restore those honeymoon conditions after the tantrums started, and then YOU WOULD HAVE WALKED. That's what normal guys do.

 

What excessive caregivers like you and me do, however, is to keep trying to figure out what WE are doing wrong so we can restore our wives to those loving people we saw at the beginning. BIG MISTAKE -- a mistake we both made for about 15 years.

 

Ironically, an online therapist once said that, after treating numerous BPDers, he noticed that relationships with a BPDer typically last either 18 months or 15 years. They last 18 months, he explained, when the Non-BPDer ("Non") has strong personal boundaries. The Non enjoys the 6 month honeymoon period of mirroring and then is willing to spend up to a year trying to reestablish the honeymoon conditions. Then he bails.

 

The relationship lasts 15 years, he explains, when the Non has strong codependency traits and thus has low personal boundaries. Such a Non typically never bails. Instead, the BPDer leaves him because, as the years go by, she becomes increasingly resentful of his inability to make her happy or fix her. Also, she may become increasingly fearful of abandonment.

 

This explanation struck a strong chord with me because my relationship lasted 15 years, at which time my wife left me. By "left me," I mean she had me arrested on a trumped up charge ("brutalizing her") and filed a restraining order barring me from my own home for a year and a half (when the divorce was finalized).

What I know is that after several different MCs and therapists and my own Psych Doc... it's very hard to explain to any Dr or professional what it is you're going through. My W is a pro at manipulation and persuasion.

Rev, if your W has strong BPD traits, MC likely will be a total waste of time unless she has had several years of weekly therapy to address issues that go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. Yet, even in the unlikely event she does therapy, the therapists generally do not tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder being treated. Hence, for anyone married to an abusive angry spouse, relying on HER psychologist to give you a diagnosis likely will be a disastrous course of action. I say this for four reasons.

 

First, psychologists may never witness the BPD traits. Because BPDers generally are excellent actors, it is a cakewalk for them to hide their BPD traits during a 50-minute session held only once a week. It therefore may take a psychiatrist years to see the dysfunctional behaviors you see all week long -- and it is highly unlikely a BPDer will remain in therapy that long (in the unlikely event you persuade her to even start).

 

Second, even assuming that the psych has sufficient time to identify a BPDer's disorder, it is unlikely that the psych will ever tell you. Therapists are loath to tell a BPDer -- much less tell her spouse -- the true diagnosis. Because BPDers have fragile egos, giving her the name of her disorder almost certainly will result in her immediately quitting therapy.

 

Third, in the very unlikely event she stays in therapy, telling her the name of her disorder may cause her behavior to become WORSE, not better. Because BPDers have a fragile, unstable sense of who they are, they are often looking to other people for cues on how to behave. The danger of disclosing the disorder name, then, is that it will give the patient a new identity as "the BPDer." The result is that a patient who had been exhibiting 5 or 6 BPD traits may suddenly start exhibiting 8 or 9.

 

A fourth reason is that therapists know that listing the diagnosis as "BPD" almost certainly means insurance companies will refuse to cover it. It therefore is common for the "diagnosis" to be listed, instead, as one of the side effects or comorbid disorders, such as depression, bipolar, anxiety, PTSD, or adult ADHD -- all of which are covered by insurance.

No secret to therapists. This withholding of information is no secret in the psychiatric community and has been discussed in academic articles for decades. See, e.g., the classic 1992 Dartmouth Medical School article at The Beginning of Wisdom Is Never Calling a Patient a Borderline; or, The Clinical Management of Immature Defenses in the Treatment of Individuals With Personality Disorders -- VAILLANT 1 (2): 117 -- Journal of Psychotherapy Practice and Research. More recently (May 2009), the Columbia Univ. College of Phys. & Surgeons devoted a workshop to this very issue, i.e., when to withhold and when to disclose the BPD diagnosis. See http://www.borderlinepersonalitydiso...sure_Hersh.pdf.

 

No secret to attorneys. Likewise, this withholding of BPD information is no secret to the family-law attorneys who specialize in divorces and spousal abuse. One such firm -- located in Calif and NV -- explains on its website why there is little chance of being able to use a BPD diagnosis in the divorce proceedings against a very abusive spouse. This article, by trial lawyer Joel Douglas, states:

"Often mental health care clinicians in completing their DSM list of differential diagnoses will “defer” or simply leave an Axis II diagnostic impression blank, irrespective of whether a personality disorder exists."

Douglas gives four reasons as to why "many psychotherapists are loathe to list Axis II personality disorders." See full article at Bonne Bridges, Mueller, O'Keefe & Nichols - Do You Know Someone Like This: The Borderline Personality Disorder.

[revitup]

Downtown,You are right on the money.I really think she is BPD and has instances of bi-polar in the mix.

 

Anyway,today STBXWW was investigated by Child Protective Services in her home 5 hours away.My DD14 and I both were hit with phone calls from her,my DD14 had two.The calls were enlightening.STBXWW called DD14 a liar.

 

First of all,she was acting as if she is still the victim.She and her 22 yr old daughter who I adopted at age 4 were on a rampage as the CPS folks left her place.The DD22 actually turned on her little DD14 sister in emails and on me in emails and voice mails.Using profanity and vulgar slaps in her little sister's face.My DD14 was both angry and hurt at the same time.

 

STBXWW actually told DD14 that she will have to move from her larger rental into a smaller palce because of this.So what?

 

When the STBXWW told my DD14 that I had caused all of this and that she would take the DD14 for help if she would come home (she had three opportunities with the DD14 asking STBXWW to get her some help but ignored the DD14)our DD14 said this,

 

"mom,you have promised and promised to get me help.....dad actually took me to get help"!!!!

 

DD14 told her mom that she isn't going back and that STBXWW has no time to even help her anyway!

 

STBXWW sent this text to our DD14 "I wish you the best,I love you sweetheart" This sounds as though STBXWW knew DD14 was not coming back and she doesn't want her in the way of her "new life" .

 

Downtown as I now look at it from the BPD side ,I see that there really weren't that many manic episodes,except when she uses alcohol.She hasn't drank in 18 yrs,until now! She (before I met her ) would drink to blackout occurred and would have sex with anyone while blackout was in effect according to her.I wonder if she really was in a blackout or just didn't want to remember.

 

You are right about the co-dependence thing,I wanted to have a victory so bad (family) that I lost myself in the "fixing" and actually became a zero at times.I knew better but just kept up the charade.I feel stupid about that but it is what it is.

 

You are right about the need of BPDr's to have someone fix them and soothe them.STBXWW would ask me to "just lay down with me and hold me for a while,that will make me feel ok""just hold me".This could be at 9:30 am when I was outside and working on something important,yet she was laying around and wanted me to do the same.Usually I di just that and felt like an idiot when it didn't work anyway...at least not for long.

 

She is also now taking up beer drinking and shooting pool?This is what her "new man" does on Monday nights and STBXWW is going to start playing on Tuesday nights?Taking up hobbies of others just as you say.She also has taken up hobbies and activities of women she meets and becomes "friends" with over time.She will buy lots of stuff to be involved in a new hobby and then it just sits around until it is forgotten when a new hobby takes it's place.

 

I will post more later but had to get this out of my head tonight.

 

Also my DD14 is doing excellent!She is angry some and hurt some,but she is secure in her decision to be here.SHe told me that she could never get better there with her mom.

 

I am proud of her and constantly

reaffirming the fact she is not to blame for this junk.

 

This is going to be a great year for us.

 

I am so proud of my daughter and the insight she has at 14 yrs old.

Edited January 1, 2013 by revitup
paragraphs jumped

[Gunny376]

This is going to be a great year for us.

 

Looks to me the two of you have already got a 'jump-start' on not just a new year, but a new beginning ~ a new life! Not everyone gets a new lease on life. Hang onto it Son, make every second count!

 

Live your life each and every day such that when your born your crying, and everyone else is smiling and laughing! And when you die everyone you've ever known is crying, but the undertaker comes to them and says:

 

"We've tried and tried, but no matter what we do? We just can't get that grin like a mule that's been eating briars out of a briar patch off his face! :eek: :eek:

 

Happy New Year Rev ~ may God bless you and the DD14 and all of your and yours!

[Downtown]

Downtown,You are right on the money.I really think she is BPD

Rev, please keep in mind that I never said she "is BPD" or "has BPD." Only a professional can make such a determination and, as I explained, it is very unlikely a professional would reveal such a diagnosis to her or you.

 

Hence, when I use the term "BPDer," I define it to mean "a person having strong BPD traits, regardless of whether they are above or below the diagnostic threshold." Even when those traits fall well short of the diagnostic criteria for having the full-blown disorder, they can be strong enough to destroy a marriage and make your life miserable. I believe you are fully capable of spotting strong BPD traits (i.e., the red flags) because there is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and black-white thinking.

 

In any event, I'm glad to hear that your 14 year old D is doing so well and is choosing to live with you. Yes, it sure sounds like you have much to be thankful for in the new year!

[revitup]

Downtown,I get the no-diagnosis thing.I have talked at length with my psych doc (I am ADHD and see her every month-for many years, for Ritalin prescription )and she has told me the same thing you are as to the "diagnosis" thing.It seems that docs in general just want to be vague about everything involving the BPDer/bipolar thing.

 

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter if she is bipolar,BPD or neither one,the fact is ,she is TOXIC and hurtful to those who have actually cared for her and loved her ,while at the same time being nice to those who want to use her and who have used her before.Her behavior toward our DD14 is shocking,at no time would I have thought she would have turned on her like she now has done.

 

It helps me when I read your observations and real life findings.This is an eye opener for me.I am not reading them with the purpose of "fixing her".I am reading them because my questions had became "why did I pick her,why did I stay in this,what weakness did I have that made me stay"?

 

Now, I simply want to know how to get my weakness's to the surface and work on them.The co-dependency fault is a big one for me.I want to make sure that it is dealt with.I also believe that I had fallen into a semi-depressed state maybe and didn't even know it.I had became indecisive and wanted to please her at any cost.It was similar to the "Stockholm" syndrome in many ways I believe.

 

What do you believe happened to you as a result of your own experience?How did you overcome the changes in your personality if there were changes?

What should I look out for next in my and my daughter's recovery from this?

I believe this will make me more aware and stronger but could cause me to not trust people as I once did.

 

I believe she can heal one day, but she must hit her bottom and it's up to her as to what that bottom might be.I know she is the only one who can "fix" her.I have no intention of being in that process personally or dwelling on it.I no longer ask myself what did I do wrong to cause this,just how can I be a better man and overcome my faults in character.There is no way we would ever be together again,I can't see me trusting her again in any way at all.

 

My total focus today is the healing process for my DD14 and our future as a family,just DD14 and myself.I know the STBXWW will always be in the picture,it will be a challenge to all of us.I have no intention of cutting her out of our daughter's life as her mother.It's just that I will not allow her to get into our heads or to be alone with our DD14 without supervision.

 

I truly appreciate your insight and the way you tell it straight.Beating around the bushes isn't my thing.It works best for me when people tell it to me hard and fast.This is why I enjoy Gunny's posts so much,he is in your face good at putting it to you.

 

Thank you again for your help,it feels good to know that I am not alone,even though I hate it happened to any of us.

 

REVITUP

[Downtown]

It seems that docs in general just want to be vague about everything involving the BPDer/bipolar thing.

Generally, the therapists' withholding of information is limited to PDs, especially BPD. One reason is that insurance companies usually refuse to cover PD treatments but will cover those for the Axis-1 disorders like bipolar, depression, anxiety, and PTSD -- all of which usually can be treated quite successfully with medication. PDs, however, cannot be treated with meds. The result is that, if your W has bipolar disorder, the doctors likely will be very forthcoming in telling her about it and prescribing meds.

Her behavior toward our DD14 is shocking,at no time would I have thought she would have turned on her like she now has done.

If your W has strong BPD traits, that "turning on" her own D is not surprising. Typically, high functioning BPDers do quite well with young children because those kids are so fully reliant on them that they pose no threat to the BPDer's fear of abandonment. Also, the young children have an immature sense of self and, thus, do not create the type of intimacy that triggers the mother's fear of engulfment.

 

When the children reach puberty, however, a high functioning BPDer parent usually has great difficulty because the children are starting to think for themselves and challenging her authority. Indeed, teenagers can be difficult for even normal adults to handle -- and it is more so for adults having strong fears of abandonment and intimacy.

What do you believe happened to you as a result of your own experience?

Well, I learned a lot from it and eventually emerged far stronger than I had been before. Yet, I paid such a high price for that knowledge that I don't believe it was worth all the pain. This is why I try to point younger people to the online resources that will enable them to avoid going down the same path I took.

How did you overcome the changes in your personality if there were changes?

There were no changes in my personality that I know of. Also, I never had the crazy feeling -- so common among the partners of BPDers -- that I was losing my sanity. I knew from the beginning that my exW was behaving irrationally but, for several years, I mistakenly thought she had bipolar-1 like my foster son does. Moreover, I never thought I was capable of fixing her.

 

I nonetheless was under the mistaken belief that she would fix herself if I took her to the best psychologists. Because none of the psychologists would mention the BPD name, I had no idea what I was dealing with until -- when I got out of jail at the end of the marriage -- I started reading about BPD online. At that point, I realized that several of the psychologists had been speaking in code to me, using terms like "thought disorder" and "insatiable neediness" to describe her issues. Of course, I found Stop Walking on Eggshells to read like a biography of her life.

What should I look out for next in my and my daughter's recovery from this?

My understanding is that, if the BPD traits had been passed on to your D, you would have started seeing them big time by now. Indeed, even if your D is perfectly normal, there still is a good chance of her exhibiting strong BPD traits for several years. It is so common for teens to behave like BPDers -- due to the hormone changes -- that therapists usually refuse to diagnose BPD in anyone under age 18.

I believe this will make me more aware and stronger but could cause me to not trust people as I once did.

After breaking free from my toxic 15 year marriage, I had no desire to date for two years. Even then, I started very slowly and cautiously. It therefore takes time to heal from the experience.

I believe she can heal one day, but she must hit her bottom and it's up to her as to what that bottom might be.

Sadly, if she is a high functioning BPDer, that outcome is very unlikely.

I can't see me trusting her again in any way at all.

When a person is incapable of trust you, you can never trust her because she can turn on you at any time. Until she learns how to trust herself, she will be incapable of trusting others for any extended period of time.

[revitup]

Downtown,thank you for your candidness.I knew before I asked on some of the questions.It was the same way with the STBXWW's mother and also is very apparent in her biological 22 yr old daughter whom I had won custody of when she was 4 yrs old.I don't recognize her behavior now either.She started her strange behavior at age 12.

 

My DD14 is extremely polite and well mannered.There has been no signs of any behavior as in her sister and mother thank God.We are bonding quickly and she is very happy to be home.Her attitude is that she needs to heal and can only do so away from her mom.As sad as that may be,she is right.I only wish that I had been as insightful at her age.

 

Thank you again for the new information.It empowers me just knowing some facts.

 

Happy New Year

 

REVITUP

[Mystery2Me]

Congrats Rev!

 

Warms my heart to know that 2013 finds you and DD14 moving forward and healing. DD14 is amazing, showing such courage to reach out for help and demanding her right to happiness. You must be super proud of such a wonderful young lady.

 

Also exciting to read about your moving forward to a healthier life.

 

Enjoy it all~Mystery:)

[revitup]

Mystery2Me,Thank you so much.This has been the best New Year that I have ever had.

 

Last night after we returned from the movies and said our prayers, my DD14 went to bed.I then went into the bathroom and found the following written on the bathroom mirror with soap....."I love you Daddy Bear"!!!

 

I have to say that finding this was one of the most heartwarming and affirming moments I personally have ever experienced.It made me feel that I truly am a good dad.

 

Thank you again for all of your encouragement.

 

REVITUP

[revitup]

Update 1/2/2013

 

STBXWW just called and left vm.She then answers when I call her back.STBXWW says that she has been on C/L but didn't see anyone,then I ask her about "muscles" who she didn't even know his name.She admits to meeting him from C/L.

 

She says she isn't going to put up any battle at all for custody of my DD14!!!

None at all!She also says she is a good mom,this woman is in fantasy land.She actually sees nothing wrong with anything she has done to hurt our DD14.

 

STBXWW simply says everyone is lying about her,that she is doing great.The woman has no emotion whatsoever in her voice.She has no empathy for the people she has hurt.It is as though there is simply a shell of a person with nobody in it.There is no sense of remorse over losing her DD14 or her family as it once was.

 

I don't know who she is at this point.The woman I once knew has checked completely out of this lady's body.There is no soul in the woman.

 

I told her that I once admired one quality about her,her honesty.I told her that the honesty is now gone.She lies about anything and everything at this point.

 

STBXWW says that she knows that I took out custody papers and no contact orders and restraining orders and planned this in advance...none of which is true.I did file at the U Care center (free) but told them to hold the orders until we could figure this all out.Paperwork would kick in at the first instance of inappropriate contact by STBXWW.

 

She had once did a no contact on me (2 yrs ago when she left the 2nd time) and it hurt me so badly to not be able to call my daughter.So this time I did not put the STBXWW through that same pain.

 

Today I will enroll my daughter in High School here so that she starts Friday.DD14 is so excited and feels safe to be here.

 

My life began again yesterday.My family is myself and my daughter.That's just fine with me.It's actually easier and less stressful for my DD14 and myself,being alone.

 

I ahve been working with my daughter on the 5 stages of grief,just briefly.Today I am working on where she is in that process.Tomorrow we go to the Psychologist for my DD14 who is also mine.We will both go to therapy starting tomorrow.

 

Let the healing begin!

 

REVITUP

[Downtown]

Rev, that's wonderful news -- about your STBXW not challenging your having full custody. It also is good that your DD14 is wanting to live with you. At that age, the courts usually allow the child to live with whichever parent she wants. And, as a practical matter, the child is in control even if the court chooses badly. A 14 year old child that doesn't want to live with one parent can make life such a living hell with that parent that the mother will want to send her to her dad's home.

 

Just the same, it would be prudent to get the legalities settled promptly. Unstable people can change their minds in ten seconds and flip 180 degrees.