verhrzn Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 You do but how many before you tear men like this apart? Well you can't fix all the a**holes in the world. There are women a**holes. There are male a**holes. Being a jerk is not a gender-specific thing. But why make other women suffer for the sins of some stranger? I am sitting here telling you it hurts me when men objectify women. I have shown sympathy for men, including you, on this board. So in this instance, why are you not showing me sympathy back? To punish me because some women before me ripped apart some other guy? Do you know see how twisted that is? Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Heard at a recent dinner party: 'You know, your husband married you for your blue eyes and your boobs' This from the brother of the lady, who's been married to my best friend for nearly 30 years, and right in front of her. Some men have no decorum whatsoever. I'm sure his wife of two months, with equally spectacular boobs, was pleased. /sarcasm. There's a time and a place for everything. Perhaps it's 'normal' to talk about women like that but I most assuredly did not talk about my exW that way to other men, as I feel it's disrespectful to someone I loved. YMMV. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Come on, I'm being serious now. Empathy and understanding can grow out of walking a mile in someone's shoes. Really think about it... what could someone do to violate your boundaries? How bout this... you discover that someone installed a program on your computer that allowed them to turn on your webcam without you realizing. They then took video of you naked (wandering around in front of your computer) and uploaded it to a porn site. They then added your address next to it. How would you feel? Safe? If you still feel safe, why? Is it a feeling that you'd be able to take someone out if they tried anything? I wouldn't feel violated by that - embarrassed maybe, I wouldn't want my mum to see it. I would probably wouldn't even bother to find out who it was, I would just reboot my computer so they couldn't make anymore vids. It would have to take serious physical violence towards me to feel violated if I'm perfectly honest. I can understand why somebody would feel violated by something akin to the objectification describe to a very large extent, enough that I can be sensitive about it. I may question why they would feel violated by it, but I can understand it. However I don't think I would feel violated if the same thing happened to me - unless, like I said, it was a serious physical assault that I couldn't prevent for whatever reason. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Well you can't fix all the a**holes in the world. There are women a**holes. There are male a**holes. Being a jerk is not a gender-specific thing. But why make other women suffer for the sins of some stranger? I am sitting here telling you it hurts me when men objectify women. I have shown sympathy for men, including you, on this board. So in this instance, why are you not showing me sympathy back? To punish me because some women before me ripped apart some other guy? Do you know see how twisted that is? I have been made to pay for the actions of other men as well. The gender war sucks. What can I say? Link to post Share on other sites
verhrzn Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I distinctly remember Somedude hitting on you here, being kind and understanding with you, and I'll bet my first born that he's messaged you privately with interest. So what happened? You probably didn't want it. And now you're going to make an excuse in order to twist it around and make it his fault. I really hate the Rocky Balboa speeches people give to those down on their luck, but you are the cause of your own misfortune. I should be flattered that he'd hit on anything with a pulse, which I happen to possess? That he deigned to lower his standards to consider a chubby girl after publicly condemning them? That he was so desperate he'd hit on a stranger halfway across the country who matched absolutely none of his exalted physical criteria? Gee, I just can't wonder why I wasn't that interested... Link to post Share on other sites
verhrzn Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I have been made to pay for the actions of other men as well. The gender war sucks. What can I say? We are not the gender war. I have not made you pay for any "male" sins. How about you extend me the same courtesy? How about instead of making every thread a gender war, you remember we are all individuals... and I am sitting here saying, this hurts me. Do I not deserve your sympathy, just because I am a woman? Then how are you any better than the people you criticize? Link to post Share on other sites
TheBigQuestion Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Heard at a recent dinner party: 'You know, your husband married you for your blue eyes and your boobs' This from the brother of the lady, who's been married to my best friend for nearly 30 years, and right in front of her. Some men have no decorum whatsoever. I'm sure his wife of two months, with equally spectacular boobs, was pleased. /sarcasm. There's a time and a place for everything. Perhaps it's 'normal' to talk about women like that but I most assuredly did not talk about my exW that way to other men, as I feel it's disrespectful to someone I loved. YMMV. I agree. I do think it's rather tactless to make comments like this one in mixed company among old friends, etc. The internet is not like your dinner party, however, and that's why I fail to comprehend the extreme butthurt that sometimes occurs when men talk about what they like physically. There ARE threads here where women have been asked to describe their physical ideals, and the women's answers were usually quite a bit more detailed. With men it's usually just like "boooobs, maaaan." Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 We are not the gender war. I have not made you pay for any "male" sins. How about you extend me the same courtesy? How about instead of making every thread a gender war, you remember we are all individuals... and I am sitting here saying, this hurts me. Do I not deserve your sympathy, just because I am a woman? Then how are you any better than the people you criticize? I am just sick of being hated for my gender. You see that I try so hard not to let it get to me but I sometimes just can't take it anymore. I agree with you that nobody should be treated like that and I wish the world were different but it won't change anytime soon. Neither gender is going to be the first one to extend the olive branch. I have empathy for you because you have never treated men that way but many women who complain about objectification are hypocrites. Link to post Share on other sites
verhrzn Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I wouldn't feel violated by that - embarrassed maybe, I wouldn't want my mum to see it. I would probably wouldn't even bother to find out who it was, I would just reboot my computer so they couldn't make anymore vids. It would have to take serious physical violence towards me to feel violated if I'm perfectly honest. I can understand why somebody would feel violated by something akin to the objectification describe to a very large extent, enough that I can be sensitive about it. I may question why they would feel violated by it, but I can understand it. However I don't think I would feel violated if the same thing happened to me - unless, like I said, it was a serious physical assault that I couldn't prevent for whatever reason. I think "couldn't prevent" is the key phrase. A lot of women can't prevent the objectification. It makes them feel powerless. If they object to it, they are bitches/sluts/dykes. A lot of women feel they don't have control over their own bodies... And in a way, we don't, when men are taking pictures of us unaware and uploading them onto sites just for their own selfish gratification. I've seen people who get pissed at the idea that the government has installed cameras at stop lights. Feels it violates their privacy. Kind of a similar idea... the only way women could avoid being photographed is by not being in public at all. That's a very powerless feeling. And it also returns to that thread of violence. Someone is already using your body in a way you did not consent to.... for sexual gratification. Who isn't to say they wouldn't take it a step further and cross more boundaries? If a guy crosses one boundary, why not the next? And since women are physically weaker, we'd have a harder time fending off an attacker. I would strongly suggest reading "The Gift of Fear." When men talk about women's bodies in public, a lot of guys are (inadvertently, we hope) tapping into issues of security and boundaries and control, as well as self-esteem and personal value. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Heard at a recent dinner party: 'You know, your husband married you for your blue eyes and your boobs' This from the brother of the lady, who's been married to my best friend for nearly 30 years, and right in front of her. Some men have no decorum whatsoever. I'm sure his wife of two months, with equally spectacular boobs, was pleased. /sarcasm. There's a time and a place for everything. Perhaps it's 'normal' to talk about women like that but I most assuredly did not talk about my exW that way to other men, as I feel it's disrespectful to someone I loved. YMMV. I think that is definitely an example of extremely tactless behavior. It really depends on the manner, as was pointed out earlier in the thread. I think I will just stop talking about it to be honest - trying to straddle the thin line between acceptable and objectification will be a long battle. I will cede this one. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
verhrzn Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I am just sick of being hated for my gender. You see that I try so hard not to let it get to me but I sometimes just can't take it anymore. I agree with you that nobody should be treated like that and I wish the world were different but it won't change anytime soon. Neither gender is going to be the first one to extend the olive branch. I have empathy for you because you have never treated men that way but many women who complain about objectification are hypocrites. I AM FREAKING EXTENDED THE OLIVE BRANCH. I am. ME. Showing sympathy. Thus.... extending the olive branch. Either have the self-awareness to show me the same courtesy, or kindly GTFO of threads where you can offer nothing except a continuation of the gender war. You are making me responsible for other people hating your gender, when I have done nothing wrong. You are no better than the people you criticize, and you are merely extending the gender war you claim to hate. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I AM FREAKING EXTENDED THE OLIVE BRANCH. I am. ME. Showing sympathy. Thus.... extending the olive branch. Either have the self-awareness to show me the same courtesy, or kindly GTFO of threads where you can offer nothing except a continuation of the gender war. You are making me responsible for other people hating your gender, when I have done nothing wrong. You are no better than the people you criticize, and you are merely extending the gender war you claim to hate. I accept the olive branch from you individually. I will agree to stop objectifying women if they agree to show us the same courtesy. This vicious cycle will never end without both genders putting an end to it. Link to post Share on other sites
verhrzn Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I accept the olive branch from you individually. I will agree to stop objectifying women if they agree to show us the same courtesy. This vicious cycle will never end without both genders putting an end to it. Ugh. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth!" "Oh good, then everyone in the world will be blind and toothless." You are part of your gender. I've done my part for my gender. Are you going to do your part for your gender? Because "a gender" is never going to stop unless the INDIVIDUALS decide to stop. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Ugh. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth!" "Oh good, then everyone in the world will be blind and toothless." You are part of your gender. I've done my part for my gender. Are you going to do your part for your gender? Because "a gender" is never going to stop unless the INDIVIDUALS decide to stop. I try to but sometimes I can't resist the urge to get in a few shots for my gender. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 I try to but sometimes I can't resist the urge to get in a few shots for my gender. Get in a few shots? What are you talking about? This isn't a "gender war" thread. I'm asking a genuine question. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Get in a few shots? What are you talking about? This isn't a "gender war" thread. I'm asking a genuine question. When I see constant misandry I sometimes figure two can play at that game. I probably just see it where there isn't any though. There are days when I feel like a picture of a woman is giving me the evil eye. Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 When I see constant misandry I sometimes figure two can play at that game. I probably just see it where there isn't any though. There are days when I feel like a picture of a woman is giving me the evil eye. This isn't misandry. I haven't seen it in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 This isn't misandry. I haven't seen it in this thread. I know it isn't but it feels like it. The other day I was in a store and there was a picture of a woman looking happy and I felt like she was laughing at me. Yes I know how ridiculous that sounds. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 When I see constant misandry I sometimes figure two can play at that game. I probably just see it where there isn't any though. There are days when I feel like a picture of a woman is giving me the evil eye. I have seen passionate responses in this thread but no misandry . It's a heated discussion, but it's not a gender war. You have to try to leave your emotions at the door in threads like these - nobody's out to get you, or men. It's simply about women's physique, and appropriate ways to appreciate them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ThaWholigan Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 I agree. I do think it's rather tactless to make comments like this one in mixed company among old friends, etc. The internet is not like your dinner party, however, and that's why I fail to comprehend the extreme butthurt that sometimes occurs when men talk about what they like physically. There ARE threads here where women have been asked to describe their physical ideals, and the women's answers were usually quite a bit more detailed. With men it's usually just like "boooobs, maaaan." See, I like to be detailed, but typically I refrain from vulgarity when describing women. But to me, it's more than just a girl's physique on it's own. It's the expression of that physique, the mannerisms, posture, movement, language. That all contributes greatly rather than just the body type. And all those other things are an intrinsic insight into who that woman is - if only a small one. That's the kind of detail I like focusing on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AD1980 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 ... Except I've given TONS of sympathy. Every thread I see bemoaning how women lust after tall men, I jump in to say I LOVE short men. I LOVE nerds. I love introverts and dorky-looking fellows. I was duly ignored. I showed tons of sympathy towards Somedude.... until he said that women like me, fat women, don't count as human beings. What am I to make of that? oh come on v it has nothing to do with you or how you look.. Just like you get down when the majority of men in those threads say how they prefer what you claim youre not short men arent gonna feel overly desired just because 1 out of 50 women in a thread said they dont mind short men Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Show me an example on this forum, within the last few days, of something that is equivalent to the "Butt and Boobs" thread. Or a female poster who constantly linked photos of hot guys, ala TrainofAngels. In fairness, that poster (or his sock puppet) probably posts more pictures of "hot" guys than girls. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Get in a few shots? What are you talking about? This isn't a "gender war" thread. I'm asking a genuine question. Sadly, it seems that every thread that Woggle posts in becomes a "gender war" thread. He is a gender warmonger. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
USMCHokie Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 This may not be a coffee shop, but it is still a public place. We should still have respect for other people's feelings, especially since a lot of people who come here do so in pain or conflict. Let's say you're a woman with low body image. What if you're a man or woman with a low intelligence image...or a low humor image...or a low kindness image...? Would it be wrong to praise the value of these attributes in a woman...? What if you were not particularly smart, funny, or kind...? Physical attributes are no different from any other attribute of a person. Someone's always going to get hurt by something... 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Sorry for derailing this thread. I am just pissed off about things right now. Mods can feel free to delete those posts. Link to post Share on other sites
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