Men talking about women

[xxoo]

Just listen to a group of women talking about their boyfriend's and husband's penises.

 

I believe the frequency with which this happens is FAR overestimated. There may be some groups of women (likely younger women) who do this, but it is far from common among married women.

 

Men talking about women's bodies is far more common, although I would hope that married men don't discuss their wives' bodies with their friends in a crude way

[LittlePrince]

I believe the frequency with which this happens is FAR overestimated. There may be some groups of women (likely younger women) who do this, but it is far from common among married women.

 

Men talking about women's bodies is far more common, although I would hope that married men don't discuss their wives' bodies with their friends in a crude way

Everyone talks.

[xxoo]

Everyone talks.

 

Apparently not to me

 

I'm about 40, and have had several groups of married female friends over the years (different areas, different jobs, etc). The only time penis size ever comes up is when we talk sex--often about sex issues--and sometimes a woman will comment that "he's pretty big" when explaining a problem they are having.

 

I've heard much more from single girls, but not from married women.

 

I've heard a lot more from guys--and I'm not even another guy!

[oaks]

So what is the solution? Do we stop talking about or acknowledging a woman's body just to appease?

 

Sounds like a ridiculous question.

 

To the extent that it's a "problem" in need of a "solution" (and I'll pretend to accept that premise for a moment) then the solution is for men to develop better communications skills so that we find ways to discuss the other positive attributes of women. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Or we could just talk about it when there's no wimmins within earshot.

[xxoo]

To the extent that it's a "problem" in need of a "solution" (and I'll pretend to accept that premise for a moment) then the solution is for men to develop better communications skills so that we find ways to discuss the other positive attributes of women. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Or we could just talk about it when there's no wimmins within earshot.

 

How much do you talk, when in a relationship? Do you describe parts of her body hidden by clothing to other men?

 

Can you give some examples?

 

Or is this more of a casual dating thing, or talking about women you see but are not dating?

 

Explain!

[oaks]

How much do you talk, when in a relationship? Do you describe parts of her body hidden by clothing to other men?

 

Personally, no I don't do that at all. I don't recall any of my friends telling me about their girlfriends' body parts either.

 

 

Or is this more of a casual dating thing, or talking about women you see but are not dating?

 

Explain!

 

When single, if I'm with a group of male friends in a bar, I'm sure there might be conversations relating to the physical characteristics of an attractive stranger that we can all turn to stare at admire. I'm not particularly an instigator of those 'conversations', but I'm sure I've joined in... perhaps to agree or disagree with an assessment about the desirability or attractiveness of the woman.

[LittlePrince]

How much do you talk, when in a relationship? Do you describe parts of her body hidden by clothing to other men?

 

Can you give some examples?

 

Or is this more of a casual dating thing, or talking about women you see but are not dating?

 

Explain!

What? No good soaps on my dear?

[xxoo]

Personally, no I don't do that at all. I don't recall any of my friends telling me about their girlfriends' body parts either.

 

Relieved!

 

 

When single, if I'm with a group of male friends in a bar, I'm sure there might be conversations relating to the physical characteristics of an attractive stranger that we can all turn to stare at admire. I'm not particularly an instigator of those 'conversations', but I'm sure I've joined in... perhaps to agree or disagree with an assessment about the desirability or attractiveness of the woman.

 

Women do that, too

[ally_batucan]

am i the only woman reading here or what??

[verhrzn]

What if you're a man or woman with a low intelligence image...or a low humor image...or a low kindness image...?

 

Would it be wrong to praise the value of these attributes in a woman...? What if you were not particularly smart, funny, or kind...? Physical attributes are no different from any other attribute of a person. Someone's always going to get hurt by something...

 

I'd say that's different for multiple reasons.

 

1) If you are lacking in, let's call them "personality" traits, these can be improved. I am not naturally very intelligent, but I can come off as smart because I've spent my life reading everything I can get my hands on. You can learn to be smart, you can learn to be funny or kind, without too much fuss.

 

Physical attributes, on the other hand, are rather set in stone. Yes, you could be fatter or skinnier, but you can't change the fundamental shape of your body. I could lose weight, but it wouldn't change the shape of my nose, or the overall shape of my body (my skeleton is what is responsible for my "curves"... rib cage and hip bones, specifically.) Without expensive and drastic surgery, you're mostly stuck with what you have.

 

2) Society still strongly connects a woman's value with how she looks. It's all right if a woman is stupid, or mean, or boring, so long as she is hot. (It'd be BETTER if she was smart AND hot, but it's okay if she's dumb and hot.) It's slowly, agonizingly slowly, changing, but we aren't there yet. So when guys discuss "personality" attributes, they aren't necessarily assessing a woman's value. But when a woman's attractiveness is being rated, in a way a guy is assigning her value as a human being in this society.

 

3) What people consider smart or funny or kind are rather widely different. Some people will think I'm dumb because I can't fix a car, while some others think I'm smart because I like chess. Personality values are a lot more variety... most people don't really agree on what is "funny" or "smart."

 

With looks, however, there is still a very narrow range of what is considered "hot" when it comes to women's bodies. (Skinny but with curves.) Like I said, I have yet to see any guy drooling over the fat girl with no boobs (or butt.) Even on this site, the pictures guys post of "hot" women all look relatively the same. There just isn't the amount of diversity in what men appear to like. (If this is in error, then maybe men with different tastes should speak up a little bit more. I know men who love Big women exist, but I have yet to see any guy on this forum cop to being one.)

[MrCastle]

You could just save your glowing remarks about women's bodies for private conversations with friends, or for the woman you're with. When men talk about women's bodies in such a public way, even if their hearts are in the right place, there's a certain... objectifying going on. Literally, the women's bodies become objects. Something to be looked at, something to be consumed. It is not a happy thing to feel like you are an object. Like your worth is somehow tied up in the thing you reside in.

 

Yes, you talk about other things you like. But you need to realize context.... tat culture still places so, so, SO much emphasis on women's value being tied to women's looks. You may mean your comments in a light-hearted, appreciative way, but they are occurring in a culture that treats physical attractiveness as paramount in a woman.

 

Speaking personally, I also feel very saddened when guys on here go on and on about what they like physically, because I could never ever match it. While guys' tastes MAY be somewhat individual, certain body types are still prized over others. So when you hear men go on and on and ON about how gorgeous this specific body type is, it really gets into women's brains and implants notions of inferiority. The implication being that, if you are not this body type, you are not beautiful. (I have yet to see or hear any male going on and on about how short fat women with tiny boobs are so hot.)

 

My question is, why do you NEED to talk about women's physique? Why is it necessary to discuss it in such a way? It seems to go beyond "hm I like this" into.... well, drolly territory. Why does your need to discuss women's bodies override women's need to not hear their bodies being judged?

 

Save it. Both sexes do this.

 

"I'm sorry I just like tall men. Nothing personal against shorter men I just feel more feminine when I date a taller guy"

 

"I'm sorry but penis size does matter somewhat. Nothing personal against smaller guys but it's true"

 

"I like guys to have muscles. No offense to skinny guys but I just want to feel protected when I'm with a man"

 

For all this talk about men objectifying women, I see a hell of a lot. more threads on here made by men questioning their height, their ethnicity, their muscle mass etc than I do women questioning their bodies as a reason for lack of dating success.

 

Men are more visual by nature and that's not going to change. We're never going to reach a point where men agree to not stare at a woman's body or comment on it. There is a right and wrong way of doing this. Whenever I've complimented a woman, it's been greeted with a smile, a blush, and a sincere thank you. I don't plan on changing my routine.

 

I think the real issue is not when women are complimented, but when they hear other women get complimented in front of them. Let's be real here. No woman is gonna get offended if a man said "hey, you've got great legs!" but overhear a man say "whoa look at the legs on her!" about another woman and you say to yourself "psssh, all men are pigs. they only care about looks"

 

Everyone wants to be admired. Everyone wants to be complimented. Whether on their body or otherwise. It's when they hear comments about other people that jealousy and insecurity strike.

[oaks]

am i the only woman reading here or what??

 

Wait! Who let you in here?

[TheBigQuestion]

2) Society still strongly connects a woman's value with how she looks. It's all right if a woman is stupid, or mean, or boring, so long as she is hot. (It'd be BETTER if she was smart AND hot, but it's okay if she's dumb and hot.) It's slowly, agonizingly slowly, changing, but we aren't there yet. So when guys discuss "personality" attributes, they aren't necessarily assessing a woman's value. But when a woman's attractiveness is being rated, in a way a guy is assigning her value as a human being in this society.

 

 

With looks, however, there is still a very narrow range of what is considered "hot" when it comes to women's bodies. (Skinny but with curves.) Like I said, I have yet to see any guy drooling over the fat girl with no boobs (or butt.) Even on this site, the pictures guys post of "hot" women all look relatively the same. There just isn't the amount of diversity in what men appear to like. (If this is in error, then maybe men with different tastes should speak up a little bit more. I know men who love Big women exist, but I have yet to see any guy on this forum cop to being one.)

 

Stupid, mean, and/or boring women who are "hot" are not really dating material for most guys though, and I think that should count for something in your overall assessment. If you've ever watched How I Met Your Mother, recall the "Woo girls" episode during which physically attractive, bar-hopping women who get drunk and yell "WOOOOO!" a lot are mocked by the main characters. One segment includes what the characters think each "WOOOOO!" actually means. A subtitle to one such exclamation is "I've never been on a second date!" Truth, right there.

 

It's still considered socially embarrassing for a guy to publicly profess his preference for out-of-shape women. However, just visit the BBW section of any streaming porn site. Check the ratings and the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of hits that the videos have. That should help in you reconsidering your assessment about what preferences men have for women's bodies. With that said, I don't know exactly why you or anyone else are so fixated on what men like physically. Not every woman who posts here is some bombshell, yet most don't seem to care that men might have certain preferences. Just like most male posters couldn't give two sh*ts about height, even if they themselves are on the shorter side.

[Lonely Ronin]

I don't know exactly why you or anyone else are so fixated on what men like physically. Not every woman who posts here is some bombshell, yet most don't seem to care that men might have certain preferences.

 

It's called low self worth!

[Lonely Ronin]

The only time penis size ever comes up is when we talk sex--often about sex issues--and sometimes a woman will comment that "he's pretty big" when explaining a problem they are having.

 

I've heard much more from single girls, but not from married women.

 

lol, you brought up the one thing imo women (maybe just single), do a lot more than men.

 

You all talk about your sex life a lot more than guys do. It also seems like you go into great detail as well. On numerous occasions I have been completely dumbfounded my how many details a woman's girl friends not about her sex life.

[ThaWholigan]

lol, you brought up the one thing imo women (maybe just single), do a lot more than men.

 

You all talk about your sex life a lot more than guys do. It also seems like you go into great detail as well. On numerous occasions I have been completely dumbfounded my how many details a woman's girl friends not about her sex life.

It depends on the details. Women notice the exact minute details, whereas men will just be like "yeah fam, I f*cked her out still, made dat booty clap" - if they say anything at all. A lot of guys leave out details because they get made fun of for certain things i.e. it's not cool amongst my peers to give cunnilingus so nobody admits to it. Girls however will let the cat out the bag, so if it reaches your friends.....you will NEVER hear the end of it .

[verhrzn]

Stupid, mean, and/or boring women who are "hot" are not really dating material for most guys though, and I think that should count for something in your overall assessment. If you've ever watched How I Met Your Mother, recall the "Woo girls" episode during which physically attractive, bar-hopping women who get drunk and yell "WOOOOO!" a lot are mocked by the main characters. One segment includes what the characters think each "WOOOOO!" actually means. A subtitle to one such exclamation is "I've never been on a second date!" Truth, right there.

 

It's still considered socially embarrassing for a guy to publicly profess his preference for out-of-shape women. However, just visit the BBW section of any streaming porn site. Check the ratings and the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of hits that the videos have. That should help in you reconsidering your assessment about what preferences men have for women's bodies. With that said, I don't know exactly why you or anyone else are so fixated on what men like physically. Not every woman who posts here is some bombshell, yet most don't seem to care that men might have certain preferences. Just like most male posters couldn't give two sh*ts about height, even if they themselves are on the shorter side.

 

Not saying dumb/hot women are the male epitome of perfection. More that she is considered, socially, to have more "value" than a smart/ugly woman. And I'm discussing value on a social level, not necessarily an individual level.

 

Like your example of men who love big beautiful women but feel socially ashamed for admitting it. Why do they feel shame about it? Because of the narrow definition of what men are "supposed to" be attracted to. Which is reinforced by the way men talk about women's bodies.... by discussing the very narrow definition of beauty. Of course men exist who like women outside that range.... they should speak up more! If men want women to believe they have a greater diversity in the things they find attractive, then they should speak up, not expect women to read their minds.

 

Yeah, most women on here might not care that men have preferences. I don't care about sports team. Does that mean that any discussion and analysis of sports is stupid, because I don't like it? Some women don't care, but some women do. ThaWhalogian started this thread to get opinions, and I am giving mine. If you consider the discussion stupid, why are you here?

[joystickd]

Not saying dumb/hot women are the male epitome of perfection. More that she is considered, socially, to have more "value" than a smart/ugly woman. And I'm discussing value on a social level, not necessarily an individual level.

 

Like your example of men who love big beautiful women but feel socially ashamed for admitting it. Why do they feel shame about it? Because of the narrow definition of what men are "supposed to" be attracted to. Which is reinforced by the way men talk about women's bodies.... by discussing the very narrow definition of beauty. Of course men exist who like women outside that range.... they should speak up more! If men want women to believe they have a greater diversity in the things they find attractive, then they should speak up, not expect women to read their minds.

 

Yeah, most women on here might not care that men have preferences. I don't care about sports team. Does that mean that any discussion and analysis of sports is stupid, because I don't like it? Some women don't care, but some women do. ThaWhalogian started this thread to get opinions, and I am giving mine. If you consider the discussion stupid, why are you here?

It's not shame but more about how their friends will react to them. Men can be harsh picking on each other about something like that. Then there is a societal thing where people are judgmental and will look crazy at things like that. Like me I will say I have diverse taste in women. I will say what I like and it don't really matter who doesn't like it. I have a sister and she is harsher judge on the women I have talked to. She is saying I'm downgrading and gets on TV and points to women saying I should date someone like that. I say do you see something like that around here.

[ThaWholigan]

It's not shame but more about how their friends will react to them. Men can be harsh picking on each other about something like that. Then there is a societal thing where people are judgmental and will look crazy at things like that. Like me I will say I have diverse taste in women. I will say what I like and it don't really matter who doesn't like it. I have a sister and she is harsher judge on the women I have talked to. She is saying I'm downgrading and gets on TV and points to women saying I should date someone like that. I say do you see something like that around here.

I've often been vocal about the fact that I like big girls too, and it always goes unnoticed . Girls like Ashley Graham, Italia Blue, even that girl from Road Trip who died last year (RIP). Same with Samantha Anderson, Crystal Clear etc.

[TheBigQuestion]

Save it. Both sexes do this.

 

"I'm sorry I just like tall men. Nothing personal against shorter men I just feel more feminine when I date a taller guy"

 

"I'm sorry but penis size does matter somewhat. Nothing personal against smaller guys but it's true"

 

"I like guys to have muscles. No offense to skinny guys but I just want to feel protected when I'm with a man"

 

For all this talk about men objectifying women, I see a hell of a lot. more threads on here made by men questioning their height, their ethnicity, their muscle mass etc than I do women questioning their bodies as a reason for lack of dating success.

 

Men are more visual by nature and that's not going to change. We're never going to reach a point where men agree to not stare at a woman's body or comment on it. There is a right and wrong way of doing this. Whenever I've complimented a woman, it's been greeted with a smile, a blush, and a sincere thank you. I don't plan on changing my routine.

 

100% spot on. The majority of threads about insecurity over physical appearance seem to be posted by men, and primarily concern their height, ethnicity, not being sufficiently "ripped," and so forth.

[verhrzn]

100% spot on. The majority of threads about insecurity over physical appearance seem to be posted by men, and primarily concern their height, ethnicity, not being sufficiently "ripped," and so forth.

 

So because women kinda do it, men should get to do it?? And he completely invalidated his point about how women do it equally, by saying that "men are more visual and that isn't going to change." So, women do it equally, except men are wired to discuss women's bodies like pieces of meat??

 

And yes, guys post tons of questions about their looks.... but that's because they THINK it's their problem, not because it's actually their problem. I've read a lot of those threads, and no woman ever directly tells these guys they are ugly because they aren't muscular/have small penises/whatever. The guys' insecurity with their looks is all wrapped up in what THEY think women want, not what women ACTUALLY want.

 

Compare that to men stating, quite clearly, that THIS is what they want (no fatties, perky boobs, skinny but not too muscular, etc.) Women don't have to ask if it's their looks, because they already know it is. By the time they reach their early 20's, a lot of women have just embraced the idea that they are being judged on their looks. They don't have to ask, they know.

[TheBigQuestion]

So because women kinda do it, men should get to do it?? And he completely invalidated his point about how women do it equally, by saying that "men are more visual and that isn't going to change." So, women do it equally, except men are wired to discuss women's bodies like pieces of meat??

 

And yes, guys post tons of questions about their looks.... but that's because they THINK it's their problem, not because it's actually their problem. I've read a lot of those threads, and no woman ever directly tells these guys they are ugly because they aren't muscular/have small penises/whatever. The guys' insecurity with their looks is all wrapped up in what THEY think women want, not what women ACTUALLY want.

 

Compare that to men stating, quite clearly, that THIS is what they want (no fatties, perky boobs, skinny but not too muscular, etc.) Women don't have to ask if it's their looks, because they already know it is. By the time they reach their early 20's, a lot of women have just embraced the idea that they are being judged on their looks. They don't have to ask, they know.

 

So you really don't think men are automatically disqualified by a significant portion of women for being short, out of shape, having a "weird face," bad hair, and so forth? I can assure you, for many men out there, these ARE actual problems. They might not be their only problems, but these are NOT imaginary issues.

[oaks]

100% spot on. The majority of threads about insecurity over physical appearance seem to be posted by men, and primarily concern their height, ethnicity, not being sufficiently "ripped," and so forth.

 

Last night I got told I was too tall. Oh noes! Will I be single forever?

[TheBigQuestion]

Last night I got told I was too tall. Oh noes! Will I be single forever?

 

Yes. Don't you know that being outside the usual range of the opposite sex's preferences dooms you to permanent celibacy?

[joystickd]

So because women kinda do it, men should get to do it?? And he completely invalidated his point about how women do it equally, by saying that "men are more visual and that isn't going to change." So, women do it equally, except men are wired to discuss women's bodies like pieces of meat??

 

And yes, guys post tons of questions about their looks.... but that's because they THINK it's their problem, not because it's actually their problem. I've read a lot of those threads, and no woman ever directly tells these guys they are ugly because they aren't muscular/have small penises/whatever. The guys' insecurity with their looks is all wrapped up in what THEY think women want, not what women ACTUALLY want.

 

Compare that to men stating, quite clearly, that THIS is what they want (no fatties, perky boobs, skinny but not too muscular, etc.) Women don't have to ask if it's their looks, because they already know it is. By the time they reach their early 20's, a lot of women have just embraced the idea that they are being judged on their looks. They don't have to ask, they know.

It's more conformity than being wired. When it comes to some men if you are not into certain type of women then it their sexual orientation gets questioned. My dad once suggested I talk to a woman that was a social worker. I refused and his response was she is a light skinned black woman. I knew her and went to high school with her. He asked me was I gay and at the time all I could say was that she was black so I refused to date her. I just prefer not to date black women in this area I live. The thing is as a man when you have preferences that are different than the perceived norm then you come into question.