Men talking about women

[joystickd]

It doesn't matter. That's just what women are likely to think half the time - as we glean from this thread, and asking them to change that is like.......well, asking us NOT to think about them sexually. It's just not gonna happen.

 

Either way, I will eliminate that part of the problem by dating a woman who doesn't have a problem with how much I like her body - that's my solution anyway. Because nobody can tell me that I would diminish her other qualities when I know that I wouldn't - liking her body won't change that.

 

I have mastered the art of being able to see a woman's entire body and remember it within 1 second. So I can eliminate the ogling problem . Works every time.

 

And like Imajerk, I would be a little put out if I wasn't admired for things other than what I "provide". It would be an unlikely problem for me I feel, but still, he made a good point. That's like women's way of "objectifying" us .

 

Although, I think we lost the point of this thread, which was basically men "talking" about women's bodies, not for admiring them. I am tempted to refrain from it altogether to be honest - I can't be arsed to hear complaints about it. And I'm not one to restrict it to things like strip clubs etc. That's not me really. That's not my channel. I'll save it for my own private writing.

Strip clubs lol. I went to one once and a stripper was on stage for 15 min with a gigantic t-shirt on and me being drunk started chanting take off your tee. I'm in Fayetteville at the time a few miles from Ft. Bragg so there were soldiers there that started chanting it too. I guess she was a first timer because she ran back off stage to the back. I never seen someone move that fast in heel except for hookers.

[ThaWholigan]

I understand but what I was kept trying to say for so long was two things

1. Women maybe not all play a role in this they enable the behavior

2. To get a man to initially have any interest in you he has to be attracted to the physical part of you.

 

It doesn't ignore the other attributes you have because once he is interested and I mean truly interested then he will fall in love with the total package. On some level I see it truly as wanting to change men to be more like women and men are not wired that way. I know for me I'm cool with and have accepted things positive and negative about women. I just want the same on the women's side. They can run their mouth until they are blue in the face but it won't change the fact that the arguments they have come across as such and other women see that. If they want it that way then they should walk around wearing a damn burka http://scm-l3.technorati.com/10/08/24/16829/burka.jpg

 

I'm not asking anyone to accept being groped any bad behavior. I'm just saying there is an enabler and a person doing the bad behavior. You can't just blame one and not blame the other.

 

Then it makes no sense to totally negate the fact that a man can't go around see your other attributes. If you want you can walk around with your achievements but initially it takes physical attraction and you can't change the game now. That is just something you have to accept.

 

Then I got pissed when I said you can only control how you react to situation got taken to be me saying accept bad behavior. I in no way meant it that way. Comprehension is needed bad.

I understand you completely. I think we've crossed over into a different debate though, which is the entire premise of men's physical attraction - which isn't necessarily the issue, but maybe the driving force behind it. The issue is "talking" about that physical attraction - particularly in a way that (for reasons disclosed, and any other reason) makes women uncomfortable. This displeases me as my own ramblings on female beauty goes unappreciated and gets boxed in, but I understand it and I'll accept that.

 

It's not the physical attraction itself - but the expression of that physical attraction that is requested to be moderated, or at least concentrated and directed "appropriately".

[ThaWholigan]

Strip clubs lol. I went to one once and a stripper was on stage for 15 min with a gigantic t-shirt on and me being drunk started chanting take off your tee. I'm in Fayetteville at the time a few miles from Ft. Bragg so there were soldiers there that started chanting it too. I guess she was a first timer because she ran back off stage to the back. I never seen someone move that fast in heel except for hookers.

I went to a strip club once too. It was nasty. I never went back. Bad experience.

[joystickd]

I went to a strip club once too. It was nasty. I never went back. Bad experience.

That experience was years ago. I was crazy as hell back then. I remember stripper coming up asking for a lap dance and I would say " Hey go over there those guys look like tricks!". Later on I learned messing with them like that was the best way to get laid by a stripper.

[veggirl]

Okay, I read the first 17 pgs and then skipped to the last one, so I apologize if I missed things.

 

That being said, I agree mostly with Ver. I think she is making a lot of valid points, and I wonder if people dismiss her opinion sometimes because of her "rep" on this board.

 

Coming from the perspective of a woman who is not terribly insecure about my body / looks and gets complimented on such regularly....I do have a problem with the way men talk about and mostly TO women. I am not ugly or fat or whatever, I am tall, slim, and get called pretty/cute/hot by men.

 

I don't really take it as a compliment anymore. In fact, unless I personally KNOW you, it basically annoys me.

 

How come when I go to the gas station, I will wait in my car til the man next to me has already walked in? How come I cringe when 2 men come into my work and I have to assist them?

 

If men's comments were so innocuous they wouldn't be so noticed. If I got a random "how are you...good...well you LOOK good!" would it bother me? I don't think so, but at this point it's basically expected and I dread it. I dread STRANGERS, random men I am NOT interacting with commenting on my appearance. Fk sometimes I think "I'm dressed too well, my face and hair look too good today" to want to get out of the damn car to get some coffee at the gas station in the morning before work because I know some dude will comment.

 

It's freaking gross.

 

I agree with V, if you're gonna think it at least have the fking decency not to say it. Have some tact, some decorum. This is one thing a man will never understand. I'm sure all men think they would love it if random women were telling them how good they look.

 

YES it makes me wonder if that's all I am to them. It makes me wonder if that's all they care about.

 

Men comment on looks TOO MUCH. On an internet forum, it's different but it does make me think "damn how is he irl?" would he be one of those fkers at the gas station yelling things at me? would he be one of those dudes that comes into my work place and yaps about how I look, or stares as I walk?

 

It is unsettling to say the least. I don't need strange men commenting on how I look. I feel uncomfortable a lot, because I know it's coming. I am freaking "regular cute", not a super model, not gorgeous, and it happens all.the.time.

 

A boyfriend telling me I look sexy, awesome. A stranger telling me the same thing, gross.

 

Never in my life have I yelled out to a man that he is hot or whatever.

 

The fked up thing is that I think a lot of young women perpetuate this damn cycle, because at 21 yrs old you might be flattered and feel validated by the dudes at college yelling out how nice your as.s looks. It's a jacked cycle and tbh I think it is futile to try to explain to men, I don't think they will ever get it and I don't think they CAN get it unless they are ever the ones sitting in their car waiting for the girls to leave so they don't have to get hollered at.

 

Overhearing men talk like this is just as disgusting. So if you must discuss with your buddies, do so quietly please?

Edited September 22, 2012 by veggirl

[joystickd]

I understand you completely. I think we've crossed over into a different debate though, which is the entire premise of men's physical attraction - which isn't necessarily the issue, but maybe the driving force behind it. The issue is "talking" about that physical attraction - particularly in a way that (for reasons disclosed, and any other reason) makes women uncomfortable. This displeases me as my own ramblings on female beauty goes unappreciated and gets boxed in, but I understand it and I'll accept that.

 

It's not the physical attraction itself - but the expression of that physical attraction that is requested to be moderated, or at least concentrated and directed "appropriately".

To women like verhrzn and DY I am an *******. I guess because I am unapologetically male. I am just not willing to be ashamed of my desires or feel guilt because of what I do. Like some of the "bitter" buys sh*t on me because I don't feel bad about banging married women. I say at least I'm getting my dick wet and getting a nut. Women only feel uncomfortable if its someone they are not attracted in. For example my name Joystick came because I showed a coworker while I worked at wal mart a picture of my penis. I lost my virginity to her which lead to a crazy set of events that still have an effect on how I see women, but that is another story. Now if she was not interested she would have wasted no time in saying I harassed her. That is the thing about talking about women in that way. On some level they want that type of thing but with someone they are interested in. Men would be surprised the things they could do once a woman has an initial interest in them that would be unwanted if they were not interesting. That the thing for me. If these women saw a man across the room for example and he approached them and got to them emotionally this whole how men talk about women would be forgotten. They wouldn't give a damn about him not caring about their other attributes.

[A O]

No one wants to be treated as an object. I do online dating, and I understand that (besides a good first email), my education level, "what I do" (i.e., solid income), and even what I look like is what will get me the date. But I want to be seen as more than that, and most any other guy who actually has experience would say the same thing. If a woman approached me from say online and said that she was looking for an educated man with a good income and that from my profile I qualify, I would not write her back. Even if I was attracted to her. I'd feel too much like an object. This would hold if you replaced the adjectives "educated" and "with a good income" with "handsome" or "with a great body".

You’ve listed qualities that you think may appeal to people. That’s typical dating behavior. I’d say you’ve objectified yourself by assuming that those who are attracted to your qualities are after those and those alone. Same problem often happens when it comes to female beauty. Women dress to attract and men sure are attracted but some women assume that this attraction extends no further than the feminine form. Biggest problem in this whole shebang (as pointed out in the OP) is the assumptions made. Thankfully, this situation, these assumptions are usually dispelled "if" added information is sought.

 

So yes, as men we want to think of ourselves as winners on the one hand. We take pride in "what we do" and even what we can afford. But on the other hand, we fantasize on some level about a woman who would still be into us even if we lost our jobs and our money, because she is into us because of us. We don't want to be thought of as an ATM, at least, those of us with any self-respect.

Slight tweak. I know many men who have lost everything. Their biggest problem is in still being able to value themselves as much as wanting validation from elsewhere. Its in still believing that they have something to offer rather than wondering whether someone else will appreciate what you have to offer. That's a small but powerful difference.

[TheBigQuestion]

Okay, I read the first 17 pgs and then skipped to the last one, so I apologize if I missed things.

 

That being said, I agree mostly with Ver. I think she is making a lot of valid points, and I wonder if people dismiss her opinion sometimes because of her "rep" on this board.

 

Coming from the perspective of a woman who is not terribly insecure about my body / looks and gets complimented on such regularly....I do have a problem with the way men talk about and mostly TO women. I am not ugly or fat or whatever, I am tall, slim, and get called pretty/cute/hot by men.

 

I don't really take it as a compliment anymore. In fact, unless I personally KNOW you, it basically annoys me.

 

How come when I go to the gas station, I will wait in my car til the man next to me has already walked in? How come I cringe when 2 men come into my work and I have to assist them?

 

If men's comments were so innocuous they wouldn't be so noticed. If I got a random "how are you...good...well you LOOK good!" would it bother me? I don't think so, but at this point it's basically expected and I dread it. I dread STRANGERS, random men I am NOT interacting with commenting on my appearance. Fk sometimes I think "I'm dressed too well, my face and hair look too good today" to want to get out of the damn car to get some coffee at the gas station in the morning before work because I know some dude will comment.

 

It's freaking gross.

 

I agree with V, if you're gonna think it at least have the fking decency not to say it. Have some tact, some decorum. This is one thing a man will never understand. I'm sure all men think they would love it if random women were telling them how good they look.

 

YES it makes me wonder if that's all I am to them. It makes me wonder if that's all they care about.

 

Men comment on looks TOO MUCH. On an internet forum, it's different but it does make me think "damn how is he irl?" would he be one of those fkers at the gas station yelling things at me? would he be one of those dudes that comes into my work place and yaps about how I look, or stares as I walk?

 

It is unsettling to say the least. I don't need strange men commenting on how I look. I feel uncomfortable a lot, because I know it's coming. I am freaking "regular cute", not a super model, not gorgeous, and it happens all.the.time.

 

A boyfriend telling me I look sexy, awesome. A stranger telling me the same thing, gross.

 

Never in my life have I yelled out to a man that he is hot or whatever.

 

The fked up thing is that I think a lot of young women perpetuate this damn cycle, because at 21 yrs old you might be flattered and feel validated by the dudes at college yelling out how nice your as.s looks. It's a jacked cycle and tbh I think it is futile to try to explain to men, I don't think they will ever get it and I don't think they CAN get it unless they are ever the ones sitting in their car waiting for the girls to leave so they don't have to get hollered at.

 

Overhearing men talk like this is just as disgusting. So if you must discuss with your buddies, do so quietly please?

 

Honestly, a lot of what this thread was originally about was lost in its 22+ page length. There isn't a single male poster on this board who advocated street harassment or tactlessly telling women how great their ass looks in the workplace, and so forth, which is what you seem to be complaining about. I understand why you would feel uncomfortable in the situations you describe, but there are plenty of women who, if the compliment received isn't vulgar or crass, actually would find it far more flattering than you do. Several female posters have said as much in this very thread. And if you still wonder, that because men are traditionally more outspoken about their sexual interest, if that is all they care about, then you obviously do not know men very well. Finally, if men become even more reserved and timid about expressing interest in women than they are at present, I highly doubt our viability as a race.

 

The reason people are taking issue with what V says is because she's taking issue with posts and threads written on LS about body types and bodily features that men prefer. She is doing this despite the fact that there are plenty of threads here about penis size, male body types, height preferences, etc. Whenever a male poster expresses offense to feels hurt about any of these topics being discussed, they are usually dismissed or ridiculed. These types of posts she makes are, like I said in a previous post, just sour grapes. She doesn't perceive herself as falling into the category of what society deems attractive, so she wants to shout down any discussion men have where any of those ideals are identified as being desirable.

Edited September 22, 2012 by TheBigQuestion

[A O]

I agree with V, if you're gonna think it at least have the fking decency not to say it. Have some tact, some decorum. This is one thing a man will never understand. I'm sure all men think they would love it if random women were telling them how good they look.

Well, why bother with tact and decorum if you're just going to be pissed anyway. Nonetheless, best anyone can hope for is that people do interact in a respectful manner. If what they say still annoys well so be it.

 

You're right though, men don't understand women buy hey, same goes the other way. More understanding of "both sides may, just may alleviate some of the issues here.

[ThaWholigan]

I wonder what would happen if men simply stopped talking about women's physical beauty altogether......

[joystickd]

I wonder what would happen if men simply stopped talking about women's physical beauty altogether......

Women would complain that men didn't tell them they were beautiful. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

[ThaWholigan]

Women would complain that men didn't tell them they were beautiful. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.

My thoughts exactly.

[SteveC80]

I understand no women wanting street harassment but freaking out over any physical compliment? thats a little much,im sorry but thats the first thing everyone notices.I cant tell what an awesome smart interesting person you are before i talk to you

 

Also dont be fooled a big part of it is WHOS DOING THE COMPLIMENTING,if a women is attracted to you it increases the chances of her finding it charming rather then creepy

 

Me and my buddy back in the day did an experiment,he was short fat and bald and i at the time was in my physical peak and i guess conventionally good looking

 

We both said the same things to the same women and when he would say some of the stuff hed almost get smacked had women getthe bouncer to throw him out of the club where id get laughs blushes and the women flirting back

[ThaWholigan]

My thoughts exactly.

It's like A O said. Why bother with tact and decorum - it seems as though it's a crapshoot to get a positive response. May as well not do it at all. Just trying to figure out when to do it, how to do it etc. It seems unnecessary to me - I'm not exactly a sleazy person, how much more do I need to tone it down?

 

Better off just not doing it full stop.

[veggirl]

Honestly, a lot of what this thread was originally about was lost in its 22+ page length. There isn't a single male poster on this board who advocated street harassment or tactlessly telling women how great their ass looks in the workplace, and so forth, which is what you seem to be complaining about.

 

No, I do know that no one has advocated that, but the thing is the idea that it's cool to casually and regularly discuss women as nothing but their body / looks is why it escalates to feeling cool with saying things to strangers. It's just obnoxious, thanks to all the dudes who DO comment publicly, we know so many of you are thinking it.

 

I understand why you would feel uncomfortable in the situations you describe, but there are plenty of women who, if the compliment received isn't vulgar or crass, actually would find it far more flattering than you do.

 

I know. I'm not sure how I feel about that tbh. I know lots of women or girls would like to be told those things by strangers.

 

The reason people are taking issue with what V says is because she's taking issue with posts and threads written on LS about body types and bodily features that men prefer. She is doing this despite the fact that there are plenty of threads here about penis size, male body types, height preferences, etc.

 

Ahh. Fair enough. I end up defending dudes in height threads actually I truly do empathize with guys who feel s.hitty cause they are not tall enough or not rich enough or whatnot. That doesn't mean I can't empathize with women on this end as well

[ThaWholigan]

I understand no women wanting street harassment but freaking out over any physical compliment? thats a little much,im sorry but thats the first thing everyone notices.I cant tell what an awesome smart interesting person you are before i talk to you

 

Also dont be fooled a big part of it is WHOS DOING THE COMPLIMENTING,if a women is attracted to you it increases the chances of her finding it charming rather then creepy

 

Me and my buddy back in the day did an experiment,he was short fat and bald and i at the time was in my physical peak and i guess conventionally good looking

 

We both said the same things to the same women and when he would say some of the stuff hed almost get smacked had women getthe bouncer to throw him out of the club where id get laughs blushes and the women flirting back

Just because you're short and fat, doesn't mean you can't develop charisma. My guess is he didn't have it.

[veggirl]

It's like A O said. Why bother with tact and decorum - it seems as though it's a crapshoot to get a positive response. May as well not do it at all. Just trying to figure out when to do it, how to do it etc. It seems unnecessary to me - I'm not exactly a sleazy person, how much more do I need to tone it down?

 

Better off just not doing it full stop.

 

Well, you and Steve make a point with this idea. It is a crapshoot. If the girl finds you (general) attractive, she will probably welcome the compliment, regardless of its delivery.

 

I get the man thought on this, I guess, maybe it's all in the delivery. There is a way to do it that comes off as flattering and a way that comes off as creepy and gross. Maybe that's the problem.

[TheBigQuestion]

It's like A O said. Why bother with tact and decorum - it seems as though it's a crapshoot to get a positive response. May as well not do it at all. Just trying to figure out when to do it, how to do it etc. It seems unnecessary to me - I'm not exactly a sleazy person, how much more do I need to tone it down?

 

Better off just not doing it full stop.

 

Live life how you see fit. Although you should use common sense, going through life constantly wringing your hands over who you are going to offend or upset is absolutely pointless. I know how to act in public; I was raised to have good manners. But you know what? If someone on the internet is going to tell me that I can't post about what body types I find attractive, on the very remote chance that I might offend some woman with a poor self-image, I'm going to tell that someone to go suck eggs.

[SteveC80]

Just because you're short and fat, doesn't mean you can't develop charisma. My guess is he didn't have it.

 

Hes actually a standup comic

 

Sorry breh women are probably more shallow then men from what i seen.The things i got away with and had married women do over the years i dont have much faith in many females these days.

[ThaWholigan]

Live life how you see fit. Although you should use common sense, going through life constantly wringing your hands over who you are going to offend or upset is absolutely pointless. I know how to act in public; I was raised to have good manners. But you know what? If someone on the internet is going to tell me that I can't post about what body types I find attractive, on the very remote chance that I might offend some woman with a poor self-image, I'm going to tell that someone to go suck eggs.

I've never been much of a compliments person in public anyway - this has just made my mind up really.

[joystickd]

Live life how you see fit. Although you should use common sense, going through life constantly wringing your hands over who you are going to offend or upset is absolutely pointless. I know how to act in public; I was raised to have good manners. But you know what? If someone on the internet is going to tell me that I can't post about what body types I find attractive, on the very remote chance that I might offend some woman with a poor self-image, I'm going to tell that someone to go suck eggs.

Some of those women need to come to a rural area and have a guy tell them damn girl you got some big ol milkjugs or they got a big ol ass. Its funnier to hear it from country folk when they talk about women. A lot of them are just brutally honest. You kind of get that tough skin you have to.

[ThaWholigan]

Hes actually a standup comic

 

Sorry breh women are probably more shallow then men from what i seen.The things i got away with and had married women do over the years i dont have much faith in many females these days.

Then why do I know so many "ugly" dudes who don't have these problems? I must live in upside-down land. I'm probably the more "objectively tall & decent looking" one and I'm the one who didn't get laid (until recently). I guess that ties in with me worrying too much about what women think about my sexual attraction to them.

 

Which makes quite a funny observation. Women don't want men to talk about them sexually - but the ones who don't end up like me - late bloomers losing their virginity in their mid 20s . It's a contradiction in my opinion.

 

Nah, I still have faith (I'm an optimist, I always do). But I still think this is one of those little issues that is just going to annoy me continuously .

Edited September 22, 2012 by ThaWholigan

[joystickd]

Then why do I know so many "ugly" dudes who don't have these problems? I must live in upside-down land. I'm probably the more "objectively tall & decent looking" one and I'm the one who didn't get laid (until recently). I guess that ties in with me worrying too much about what women think about my sexual attraction to them.

 

Which makes quite a funny observation. Women don't want men to talk about them sexually - but the ones who don't end up like me - late bloomers losing their virginity in their mid 20s . It's a contradiction in my opinion.

 

Nah, I still have faith (I'm an optimist, I always do). But I still think this is one of those little issues that is just going to annoy me continuously .

I agree because once I stopped caring I got laid regularly. The thing that sucks for me about that is they were all married or have a boyfriend

[ThaWholigan]

I agree because once I stopped caring I got laid regularly. The thing that sucks for me about that is they were all married or have a boyfriend

I stopped caring too - ended up losing my V! I talked non-stop about her body too!

 

I've gone full bloody circle! Trial and error I guess. I will be talking about your bodies after all - MUAHAHAHAHAHA

 

I kid - well, not really, but still - I do have "tact and decorum" .......

 

Good night everyone

Edited September 22, 2012 by ThaWholigan

[joystickd]

I stopped caring too - ended up losing my V! I talked non-stop about her body too!

 

I've gone full bloody circle! Trial and error I guess. I will be talking about your bodies after all - MUAHAHAHAHAHA

 

I kid - well, not really, but still - I do have "tact and decorum" .......

 

Good night everyone

I'm a country boy tact and decorum to most around here that sounds like something you put in the living room.