Men talking about women

[verhrzn]

Solely in your opinion. Stop trying to universalize your preferences just so you can avoid getting YOUR feelings hurt.

 

And exactly why is it called for, in your opinion? Do you think the girl in question would enjoy finding out that a guy she went on a date with told a bunch of strangers that she was fat but had a nice rack?

[Janesays]

You have to admit, there are women who get that type of negative attention and women who don't. I know countless women who have never been physically harrassed on the street. I'm not talking about children being molested by sickos (a miniscule minority of men), but grown women who are constantly getting men in their cars stopping for them to yell things or touch them, there is something giving off a vibe for that since most women do NOT get that type of exagerrated attention.

 

I will concede that some women get more unwanted attention than others and I may be one of them. But, unlike you, I know EXACTLY why I'm getting it and it's not because of some 'vibe' I give off. (Unless, of course, you think I'm capable of giving off this 'vibe' in childhood or when I'm SLEEPING, for the love of God!)

 

In fact, I've already told you why:

 

1. I'm small. I'm very visually easy to overpower. Coming in at a whooping 5 foot tall and able to wear children's sized shoes, I appear more easily dominated. Even a guy who is 5'5 and 140lbs knows he can take me in a fight. Heck, I've been towered by CHILDREN.

 

2. I have large D-cup breasts, a very curvy butt, and a tiny waist. It is a stereo-typically over sexualized body. Which is why I constantly have to 'dress down.' You know how you can see a woman with smaller breasts and straighter hips walking down the street wearing a tank top and think, "There's a woman walking down the street wearing a tank top. Must be hot outside." Well, it can be 99 degrees and if *I* walk down the street wearing a tank top, I look like a freaking porn star.

 

It was worse when I was ALSO blonde.

 

And I just really want to stress this because you are still subtly insinuating that women like me must be 'asking for it' which is so freaking dead wrong it makes me sick to my stomach:

 

I cannot help what I look like. I cannot change my body type. I would if I could, but I CAN'T. And just because I look this way DOES NOT MEAN I LIKE being sexually assaulted. It's DNA, nothing more. Not a 'signal' or a 'vibe' that I'd like to be treated like meat for you to gorge yourself on.

[Janesays]

"There were parts about her that were beautiful, but I wasn't attracted to the whole package."

 

I think if he would have said it this way, I don't think there's a woman on this board who would have taken issue with it. In fact, I think there's a few who would have been impressed with the immaturity and respect he had shown this woman and would have walked away from that thread thinking that the OP was a pretty cool guy.

[TheBigQuestion]

And exactly why is it called for, in your opinion? Do you think the girl in question would enjoy finding out that a guy she went on a date with told a bunch of strangers that she was fat but had a nice rack?

 

No, chances are she wouldn't like that. But that's why he didn't share his thoughts with her. That brings us back to square one. You're taking offense to a hypothetical scenario that you created rather than what ACTUALLY happened.

 

I don't think it was "called for" or "uncalled for." He chose terminology that offends your excessively frail psyche to describe a contrast between physical features she possessed that he liked and disliked.

[TheBigQuestion]

And furthermore, I have no doubt in my mind that some of the women I've been on dates with have talked about me to others. I'm sure that included both positive AND disparaging assessments, depending on the date. I don't really pay any mind to it, because it's something I have no control over and cannot prove one way or the other. Why would/should the woman in question pay any mind to it?

[verhrzn]

No, chances are she wouldn't like that. But that's why he didn't share his thoughts with her. That brings us back to square one. You're taking offense to a hypothetical scenario that you created rather than what ACTUALLY happened.

 

I don't think it was "called for" or "uncalled for." He chose terminology that offends your excessively frail psyche to describe a contrast between physical features she possessed that he liked and disliked.

 

There are other girls on this board who also took offense to it. Do we ALL have frail psyches? Or is perhaps that we just preferred that men talked about women in a more respectful way? Is it just that we wish men had the manners to stop treating women as cattle, as pieces of meat, as "racks" and "asses."

 

If he wouldn't say that sort of thing to her face, why would he say it to a bunch of strangers on the Internet? If he would say it to her face, how do you think it would effect her, being told she's fat but has a nice rack? This is an offense way to describe someone, to their face or behind their back.

 

All I ask is for tack, decorum, and some level of respect when discussing women's bodies in mixed company.

[ThaWholigan]

And furthermore, I have no doubt in my mind that some of the women I've been on dates with have talked about me to others. I'm sure that included both positive AND disparaging assessments, depending on the date. I don't really pay any mind to it, because it's something I have no control over and cannot prove one way or the other.

 

I am also equally certain of the same things regarding girls I have "tried" to date - or even the girl I have eventually slept with. Hell, she made fun of me while I was having sex with her!

[verhrzn]

And furthermore, I have no doubt in my mind that some of the women I've been on dates with have talked about me to others. I'm sure that included both positive AND disparaging assessments, depending on the date. I don't really pay any mind to it, because it's something I have no control over and cannot prove one way or the other. Why would/should the woman in question pay any mind to it?

 

It's the WAY she is being described that matters! It is not that she IS being described, but that she is being described primarily by her appearance and body parts, and moreover, her body parts are being discussed in a less-than-tactful way.

 

Like I said, why did he not just say that he found some parts of her attractive but didn't feel chemistry overall? That is a mature and respectful way of stating the exact same sentiment. Why was it necessary to describe her weight? Or her chest??

[oaks]

Like I said, why did he not just say that he found some parts of her attractive but didn't feel chemistry overall? That is a mature and respectful way of stating the exact same sentiment. Why was it necessary to describe her weight? Or her chest??

 

Was this in the context of having previously posted that she didn't have any full-body photos? Describing her physical appearance from the shoulders down did seem to be relevant, perhaps even appropriate, in those circumstances.

[verhrzn]

Was this in the context of having previously posted that she didn't have any full-body photos? Describing her physical appearance from the shoulders down did seem to be relevant, perhaps even appropriate, in those circumstances.

 

Fine, I will give you he could discuss her weight. But why her chest?? Why was it necessary for him to include, and to describe by saying "rack"? It's a crass word to describe something that didn't need to be mentioned.

[joystickd]

It's the WAY she is being described that matters! It is not that she IS being described, but that she is being described primarily by her appearance and body parts, and moreover, her body parts are being discussed in a less-than-tactful way.

 

Like I said, why did he not just say that he found some parts of her attractive but didn't feel chemistry overall? That is a mature and respectful way of stating the exact same sentiment. Why was it necessary to describe her weight? Or her chest??

 

We all talk about things differently. It was a dealbreaker for him and he was stating his opinion. Maturity and respect is a subjective thing. You have to accept that people say things you dont like. Its a part of life.

[ThaWholigan]

Was this in the context of having previously posted that she didn't have any full-body photos? Describing her physical appearance from the shoulders down did seem to be relevant, perhaps even appropriate, in those circumstances.

Of course, he would have had to water it down to simply "she was not what I expected" or something similarly tactful and less offensive. Ambiguous, but safe I suppose. The kind of safe language that may endear you initially - but becomes gormless and middle-of-the-road in other scenarios.

[Woggle]

I am truly sorry about women here who have experienced sexual assault and harassment. I would never in a million years condone a man treating a woman that way. I just feel there is a difference between that and healthy sexuality that is perfectly natural between men and women.

 

No woman wants to be objectified in the manner describes in those posts but if I am dating a woman and I show no sexual interest by the 2nd or 3rd dates chances are I will get friendzoned.

[joystickd]

Fine, I will give you he could discuss her weight. But why her chest?? Why was it necessary for him to include, and to describe by saying "rack"? It's a crass word to describe something that didn't need to be mentioned.

 

It was the term he was used to saying. Whats the harm in that? Imagine saying she had nice mammary glands.

[ThaWholigan]

It was the term he was used to saying. Whats the harm in that? Imagine saying she had nice mammary glands.

It was desired that he completely disregard the idea of mentioning her chest, obviously.

[joystickd]

Of course, he would have had to water it down to simply "she was not what I expected" or something similarly tactful and less offensive. Ambiguous, but safe I suppose. The kind of safe language that may endear you initially - but becomes gormless and middle-of-the-road in other scenarios.

 

If he said it that way the women on here would have wanted specifics. He just saved himself a lot of time

[verhrzn]

Of course, he would have had to water it down to simply "she was not what I expected" or something similarly tactful and less offensive. Ambiguous, but safe I suppose. The kind of safe language that may endear you initially - but becomes gormless and middle-of-the-road in other scenarios.

 

"Middle of the road," otherwise known as "polite" and "respectful." Describing your date's body to a board full of strangers by saying she has a "nice rack" would, I doubt, ever be confused as polite, or nice.

 

Ya know, guys are always complaining about girls giving milquetoast answers about why they won't date them, or why there is no "chemistry." Female posters tell them over and over again that the girl was being polite, trying not to rock the boat or give offense. I think most guys WOULD be offended if a girl straight out said "Oh God, you smelled disgusting" or "I knew your penis would be microscopic." I suppose this is just the situation in reverse.

 

Of course, if I ever said any of those things, I'd be labeled a b*tch. A man saying disrespectful things about his female date is, apparently, just "being honest."

 

Maybe the reason we girls get upset is because men seem to have an entitled belief that they are allowed to say whatever they want, whenever they want.... but we women mustn't rock the boat, mustn't give offense, must be nice and pleasant and not a b*tch. So maybe we're just jealous that we would suffer more social punishment than you for equally speaking our minds.

[oaks]

Fine, I will give you he could discuss her weight. But why her chest?? Why was it necessary for him to include, and to describe by saying "rack"? It's a crass word to describe something that didn't need to be mentioned.

 

So it's okay for him to discuss her weight, which I think he didn't like, but not her breasts, which I think he did like? I thought he was speaking in a complimentary way about her breasts.

 

Or is it just the language he used that you don't like?

[verhrzn]

If he said it that way the women on here would have wanted specifics. He just saved himself a lot of time

 

And people yell at me for coming up with hypotheticals. Him mentioning her weight was reason enough, which I already agreed was relevant to the thread. He didn't need to mention her chest, since he had already said why he didn't find her attractive.

[xxoo]

So it's okay for him to discuss her weight, which I think he didn't like, but not her breasts, which I think he did like? I thought he was speaking in a complimentary way about her breasts.

 

Or is it just the language he used that you don't like?

 

I took it that way, too. I thought he was trying to figure out if he was attracted enough to continue dating her--pointing out that there was some attraction.

[verhrzn]

So it's okay for him to discuss her weight, which I think he didn't like, but not her breasts, which I think he did like? I thought he was speaking in a complimentary way about her breasts.

 

Or is it just the language he used that you don't like?

 

The language and the "dissection" of her body is the part I don't personally care for. If he had said "she's overweight, but her overall figure is pretty nice" that's a subtle way of referencing her curves without carving her up like a turkey. The use of "rack" is what really got under my skin, and the unnecessary mention of it.

[ThaWholigan]

"Middle of the road," otherwise known as "polite" and "respectful." Describing your date's body to a board full of strangers by saying she has a "nice rack" would, I doubt, ever be confused as polite, or nice.

 

Yeah, as a normally polite and respectful person, it DOES come across as "middle of the road" and too ambiguous, of which I have been accused of being guilty of more than once.

Ya know, guys are always complaining about girls giving milquetoast answers about why they won't date them, or why there is no "chemistry." Female posters tell them over and over again that the girl was being polite, trying not to rock the boat or give offense. I think most guys WOULD be offended if a girl straight out said "Oh God, you smelled disgusting" or "I knew your penis would be microscopic." I suppose this is just the situation in reverse.

 

The difference being that he never said those things to her, he wasn't even that offensive. Like I said, I understand those being upset he used the word "rack" to describe her chest (who uses the word rack still ), but that is not really an accurate comparison. An accurate comparison would be a female poster coming here and saying that she went out with a guy, and he was nice enough, but he stank, or something similarly deemed derogatory as the "rack" comment.

 

Of course, if I ever said any of those things, I'd be labeled a b*tch. A man saying disrespectful things about his female date is, apparently, just "being honest."

 

The dynamic can be misconstrued by both genders. I wouldn't half step with either response from either gender. I can't vouch for others however.

 

Maybe the reason we girls get upset is because men seem to have an entitled belief that they are allowed to say whatever they want, whenever they want.... but we women mustn't rock the boat, mustn't give offense, must be nice and pleasant and not a b*tch. So maybe we're just jealous that we would suffer more social punishment than you for equally speaking our minds.

 

I wouldn't know about that, at least I haven't seen much punishment from women speaking their minds about things that offend them. Women seem to be very apt at defending themselves verbally here anyway.

[joystickd]

I defend crude talk because i can be crude. Its what Im used to. You got to be aware that that everyone is not going to use proper terms

[oaks]

"Middle of the road," otherwise known as "polite" and "respectful." Describing your date's body to a board full of strangers by saying she has a "nice rack" would, I doubt, ever be confused as polite, or nice.

 

Ya know, guys are always complaining about girls giving milquetoast answers about why they won't date them, or why there is no "chemistry." Female posters tell them over and over again that the girl was being polite, trying not to rock the boat or give offense. I think most guys WOULD be offended if a girl straight out said "Oh God, you smelled disgusting" or "I knew your penis would be microscopic." I suppose this is just the situation in reverse.

 

Of course, if I ever said any of those things, I'd be labeled a b*tch. A man saying disrespectful things about his female date is, apparently, just "being honest."

 

Maybe, but on this point the poster was talking about a part of her physical appearance that he did like - her nice rack - not a part that he didn't like your example of a microscopic penis. I can see plenty of reasons for bland or neutral or tasteful language in rejections, but that's not what we're talking about here... he wasn't talking to her, and he liked her nice rack. erm, I mean breasts, obviously. not rack.

[Els]

My observation has been that most women don't think the exact same way as DY does.