Men talking about women

[joystickd]

I just vomited a little in my mouth. You are not “unapologetically male”. Although I have no doubt you enjoy seeing yourself that way. What you are actually “unapologetic” about has nothing to do with masculinity and everything to do with self entitlement. A self entitlement you, and something I have seen in other men, believe is your right to talk about women anyway you please simply because women make you horny.

 

Talking about the other gender differently also has nothing to do with being male. Showing respect to people has nothing to do with specifically being male or being “unapologetic” about it. Listening to women and what they take issue with when they get discussed by guys has nothing to do with trying to take away your masculinity. So you need stop with the “I am male, hear me roar, I’m so cool in my anti-PCness” bull crap, nonsense, horse poo, rat vomit, racoon squawking ways.

 

The fact that you are attracted to women, the fact that you may be attracted to certain women has nothing to do what we are discussing here. What is being discussed here is how men choose to talk about women either with women or with men. I don’t understand why some guys thing they deserve a free pass to talk about women any way that pleases them simply under the justification that women make you horny.

 

No one is asking you to apologize for being male anymore then men are asking women to apologize for being women when a man talks about things that women do that he feels are disrespectful to him. So get off the the “I don’t apologize for my boner” choo choo train.

 

Further, no one asked you to be ashamed of your desires or feel guilty for them. All that a few women here are doing is asking men to be aware of how they choose to talk about women and what they choose to focus on.

You want to control

[Disenchantedly Yours]

and some just like the attention and its not about how they grew up. Yes it is that simple

 

Sometimes sure, some women just like the attention. But in real life, nothing is ever that simple. People usually do the things they do because of deeper psychological reasons. Heck, even a lot of women in porn have a disproportionately large history of abuse and or neglect which led them to an attention seeking industry.

 

While I acknowledge that some women just like the attention, I think that more women then not objectify themselves because they grew up in an environment that placed a lot of value on their looks and this is how they judge themselves too. This goes so bone deep for women that I don't think men really understand. Even in homes where parents did their best to combat popular pop culture messages. There are a lot of women out there with lots of different body types that all struggle with the same issue. Their bodies. It isn't that way because have such a healthy attitude and environment concerning women's bodies.

 

I personally do hope that the conversation about women's bodies change. For women and for men. I pay attention to how my own mother talks about her body and I know I have picked up some of her habits regarding that. I see the struggle she has and I see the struggle a lot of women I know have. I think women need to be more mindful of the way they talk about themselves and I think men need to be more mindful of how they also talk about women. But the topic was specifically about how men talk about women's bodies and I don't think it's healthy or good when men disect and talk about women like they are more of a collection of body parts then an actual person.

[joystickd]

Sometimes sure, some women just like the attention. But in real life, nothing is ever that simple. People usually do the things they do because of deeper psychological reasons. Heck, even a lot of women in porn have a disproportionately large history of abuse and or neglect which led them to an attention seeking industry.

 

While I acknowledge that some women just like the attention, I think that more women then not objectify themselves because they grew up in an environment that placed a lot of value on their looks and this is how they judge themselves too. This goes so bone deep for women that I don't think men really understand. Even in homes where parents did their best to combat popular pop culture messages. There are a lot of women out there with lots of different body types that all struggle with the same issue. Their bodies. It isn't that way because have such a healthy attitude and environment concerning women's bodies.

 

I personally do hope that the conversation about women's bodies change. For women and for men. I pay attention to how my own mother talks about her body and I know I have picked up some of her habits regarding that. I see the struggle she has and I see the struggle a lot of women I know have. I think women need to be more mindful of the way they talk about themselves and I think men need to be more mindful of how they also talk about women. But the topic was specifically about how men talk about women's bodies and I don't think it's healthy or good when men disect and talk about women like they are more of a collection of body parts then an actual person.

How do you and Verhzn know that when men talk about parts in terms of what they like they are not thinking of them as a person? Are you inside their mind?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

You want to control

 

How do I want to control? Because I think men should be aware of how they choose to talk about women? Whether they are in female company or not?

 

I actually believe that is what you want to do. Because you don't believe women should have a say in how they are talked about. And you do it on the idea that because you are male and because you get horny, it should be okay to talk about women anyway that pleases you. You are unapologetically male after all right? Hence, you don't have to be responsible about how you talk about women because your a red blooded male. Unfortunetly, this line of thinking has nothing to do with true masculinity or even sexuality and pervades a level of selfishness that goes beyond either. The reality is your issue has nothing to do with being male. It has to do with you not wanting to take responsibility for how you decide to talk about others because you believe your sex drives overides everything else. And you expect others to make allowences for your sex drive as well because you simply don't want to be responsible for it if it. You're a red blooded male right? You should be able to do and say whatever you want in the name of that right? Because that's what matters most. Your desire and lust. Not how you choose to talk about or treat other people.

[ThaWholigan]

How do you and Verhzn know that when men talk about parts in terms of what they like they are not thinking of them as a person? Are you inside their mind?

As Verhrzn said, they aren't mind-readers - but that is what they assume when they hear us talk in such a way. It's not really our fault or theirs that they see it that way, so obviously there's a bridge to cross.

[Janesays]

How do you and Verhzn know that when men talk about parts in terms of what they like they are not thinking of them as a person? Are you inside their mind?

 

No, we're not. WHICH IS MY ENTIRE POINT!!! You may very well appreciate and respect women for more than just their tits/ass/legs, etc. But WE, as women, would never know it based on how some of you express your "admiration."

 

I never said you can't say and think what you want. I only urge you and others to consider that the way you come across to us is piggish, rude, and immature. If that's what you're going for, great. Have fun getting your "nut." But if it's not, you may want to consider changing your oh so unapologetically male communication style.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Janesays

[joystickd]

How do I want to control? Because I think men should be aware of how they choose to talk about women? Whether they are in female company or not?

 

I actually believe that is what you want to do. Because you don't believe women should have a say in how they are talked about. And you do it on the idea that because you are male and because you get horny, it should be okay to talk about women anyway that pleases you. You are unapologetically male after all right? Hence, you don't have to be responsible about how you talk about women because your a red blooded male. Unfortunetly, this line of thinking has nothing to do with true masculinity or even sexuality and pervades a level of selfishness that goes beyond either. The reality is your issue has nothing to do with being male. It has to do with you not wanting to take responsibility for how you decide to talk about others because you believe your sex drives overides everything else. And you expect others to make allowences for your sex drive as well because you simply don't want to be responsible for it if it. You're a red blooded male right? You should be able to do and say whatever you want in the name of that right? Because that's what matters most. Your desire and lust. Not how you choose to talk about or treat other people.

I talk how I want to talk. I take responsibility for my actions. If you want to control what people say then maybe you should be a censor. All you can control in this life is YOU. Asking someone to monitor what they say is a form of control. You are asking them to even briefly change their beliefs and values to be in sync with what you believe. What makes you an authority on what should and should not be said? Go "laminate" on that.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

How do you and Verhzn know that when men talk about parts in terms of what they like they are not thinking of them as a person? Are you inside their mind?

 

Systematically separating a person from their body parts is the nature of objectifying them. Hence, not seeing them as a person.

 

Like I said earlier. Growing up, there was no shortage of men or boys to make comments about my body, or other female's bodies, either positive or negative. Those positive and negative comments set clear boundaries about just how a man or boy thought about you and your worth depending on the quality of what he perceived your body to be. Pretty popular girls got treated like gold, the fat over weight girl got made fun of. You see men display this behavior even into adulthood sometimes. Treating the women they consider hot with more kindness then they would treat a more plain woman. I bet even a few guys reading my post now know exactly what I am talking about and maybe can even think back to a time when they did the same thing.

 

Personally, I think it's crappy of you first trying to make it seem like objectification is okay because men are men and get horny and now your trying to argue that men don't objectfy women at all when they talk about their body parts.

 

Women don't complain about objectification because it's something they are making up in their heads. The women here that take issue with how women are talked about aren't just doing it because they are trying to be difficult or make men feel bad. they are doing it because they don't like the way women get talked about and feel objectified for it.

[joystickd]

No, we're not. WHICH IS MY ENTIRE POINT!!! You may very well appreciate and respect women for more than just their tits/ass/legs, etc. But WE, as women, would never know it based on how some of you express your "admiration."

 

I never said you can't say and think what you want. I only urge you and others to consider that the way you come across to us is piggish, rude, and immature. If that's what you're going for, great. Have fun getting your "nut." But if it's not, you may want to consider changing your oh so unapologetically male communication style.

Honestly right now all I want is a nut and the thing is there are plenty of women that like my direct approach. I'm not into all the small talk and euphemisms. I'm not a beat around the bush person.

[TheBigQuestion]

I would contribute more to this thread, but I guess that I, like most guys in this thread who disagree with verhrzn and her lackey, am too much of a misogynistic, rape-condoning f*cker-a**hole-bully. I fear I too will eventually stoop as low as to engage in direct ad hominem attacks and rickety slippery-slope arguments against those who see something differently than me. After all, calling someone a f*cker-a**hole-bully is totally not the type of crass, vulgar, inconsiderate, and hurtful behavior that I'm pleading for men to stop engaging in with my LS novella. While I'm at it, maybe I can question the intelligence and maturity of my opponents my own boorish behavior

[joystickd]

Systematically separating a person from their body parts is the nature of objectifying them. Hence, not seeing them as a person.

 

Like I said earlier. Growing up, there was no shortage of men or boys to make comments about my body, or other female's bodies, either positive or negative. Those positive and negative comments set clear boundaries about just how a man or boy thought about you and your worth depending on the quality of what he perceived your body to be. Pretty popular girls got treated like gold, the fat over weight girl got made fun of. You see men display this behavior even into adulthood sometimes. Treating the women they consider hot with more kindness then they would treat a more plain woman. I bet even a few guys reading my post now know exactly what I am talking about and maybe can even think back to a time when they did the same thing.

 

Personally, I think it's crappy of you first trying to make it seem like objectification is okay because men are men and get horny and now your trying to argue that men don't objectfy women at all when they talk about their body parts.

 

Women don't complain about objectification because it's something they are making up in their heads. The women here that take issue with how women are talked about aren't just doing it because they are trying to be difficult or make men feel bad. they are doing it because they don't like the way women get talked about and feel objectified for it.

We all get judged on something. You have to learn to accept it. No one is going to say everything all G-rated for you. That is not how the world works.

[Janesays]

Honestly right now all I want is a nut and the thing is there are plenty of women that like my direct approach. I'm not into all the small talk and euphemisms. I'm not a beat around the bush person.

 

Well, go for it buddy. I'm sure there are no shortage of s!uts who will help you "get your dick wet."

 

So classy. So masculine. A true alpha male, here.

[joystickd]

Well, go for it buddy. I'm sure there are no shortage of s!uts who will help you "get your dick wet."

 

So classy. So masculine. A true alpha male, here.

Oh the comments but I'm immature.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I talk how I want to talk. I take responsibility for my actions. If you want to control what people say then maybe you should be a censor. All you can control in this life is YOU. Asking someone to monitor what they say is a form of control. You are asking them to even briefly change their beliefs and values to be in sync with what you believe. What makes you an authority on what should and should not be said? Go "laminate" on that.

 

When will you learn that no matter how many times you use "laminate" to mock me, it ineffectively only makes you look petty. Is there a reason you feel the need to make the discussion personal? Isn't there a way we can disagree without you always having to reduce yourself to petty shots? I am asking for your own benefit. You're the one that is displaying yourself poorly, not me. Even if you think your repeat mockery makes me look foolish, it simply doesn't.

 

I have actually said nothing about me personally controlling anyone. I HAVE made comments about people being more self aware about the conversations they hold and how they choose to talk about others. Perhaps demanding that others accept whatever you feel like saying is also a form of control.

 

If you don't agree with what I say, no problem. I never claimed to be of higher authority then anyone else. However, I am not the only woman that sees issue with how men choose to talk about women. If you don't like what those women have to say, then I guess this thread isn't for you.

[joystickd]

Well, go for it buddy. I'm sure there are no shortage of s!uts who will help you "get your dick wet."

 

So classy. So masculine. A true alpha male, here.

Most of them are far from sluts lol. Funny how if I call a woman a slut on here I would get jumped of for slut shaming but I call out the DYV brigade for attempting to shame men I get hell for it. Pure craziness some of the bitter women these days.

[TheBigQuestion]

Well, go for it buddy. I'm sure there are no shortage of s!uts who will help you "get your dick wet."

 

So classy. So masculine. A true alpha male, here.

 

So now we're denigrating people who prefer a straightforward approach to casual sex?

 

Can't wait till the mods clean up this part of the thread.

[joystickd]

When will you learn that no matter how many times you use "laminate" to mock me, it ineffectively only makes you look petty. Is there a reason you feel the need to make the discussion personal? Isn't there a way we can disagree without you always having to reduce yourself to petty shots? I am asking for your own benefit. You're the one that is displaying yourself poorly, not me. Even if you think your repeat mockery makes me look foolish, it simply doesn't.

 

I have actually said nothing about me personally controlling anyone. I HAVE made comments about people being more self aware about the conversations they hold and how they choose to talk about others. Perhaps demanding that others accept whatever you feel like saying is also a form of control.

 

If you don't agree with what I say, no problem. I never claimed to be of higher authority then anyone else. However, I am not the only woman that sees issue with how men choose to talk about women. If you don't like what those women have to say, then I guess this thread isn't for you.

You are the master of petty shots. You just hate when you get hit with what you dish out to everyone that challenges you. < How you currently feel right now right?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I would contribute more to this thread, but I guess that I, like most guys in this thread who disagree with verhrzn and her lackey, am too much of a misogynistic, rape-condoning f*cker-a**hole-bully. I fear I too will eventually stoop as low as to engage in direct ad hominem attacks and rickety slippery-slope arguments against those who see something differently than me. After all, calling someone a f*cker-a**hole-bully is totally not the type of crass, vulgar, inconsiderate, and hurtful behavior that I'm pleading for men to stop engaging in with my LS novella. While I'm at it, maybe I can question the intelligence and maturity of my opponents my own boorish behavior

 

Verhrzn and her lackey.......I hope you are not refering to me as Verhrzn's "lackey". Especially since I am the one that orginally started this conversation because I believe Wholigan did it in response to my comments made in another post completely seperate and not at all connected to Verhrzn's beliefs. You should know me better by now that I am no one's "lackey". You should also know better then then use sour name calling to described posters.

 

I also never said that men where rapists and was not part of that conversation at all.

 

Why is it so hurtful when women ask men to pay attention to what they say about women's bodies?

[ThaWholigan]

Verhrzn and her lackey.......I hope you are not refering to me as Verhrzn's "lackey". Especially since I am the one that orginally started this conversation because I believe Wholigan did it in response to my comments made in another post completely seperate and not at all connected to Verhrzn's beliefs. You should know me better by now that I am no one's "lackey". You should also know better then then use sour name calling to described posters.

 

I also never said that men where rapists and was not part of that conversation at all.

 

Why is it so hurtful when women ask men to pay attention to what they say about women's bodies?

That wasn't the hurtful part.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

We all get judged on something. You have to learn to accept it. No one is going to say everything all G-rated for you. That is not how the world works.

 

No. I don't need to learn to accept anything I don't want to accept in my life. I never said everything needs to be G-rated for me or that I thought that for the rest of my life, everything was going to be peaches and cream. I know how the world works. And I know that it also doesn't mean that just because you want to say something and talk about people a certain way, that means I have to accept it or lay down and take it. You are of course, free to say what you want. And I am of course, free to discuss the merits or lack of merits of it.

[joystickd]

Verhrzn and her lackey.......I hope you are not refering to me as Verhrzn's "lackey". Especially since I am the one that orginally started this conversation because I believe Wholigan did it in response to my comments made in another post completely seperate and not at all connected to Verhrzn's beliefs. You should know me better by now that I am no one's "lackey". You should also know better then then use sour name calling to described posters.

 

I also never said that men where rapists and was not part of that conversation at all.

 

Why is it so hurtful when women ask men to pay attention to what they say about women's bodies?

Men like women's bodies. I mean if you take issue with it because men hardly ever complement you then don't take it out on everyone else.

^

That was an actual petty shot there.

[joystickd]

No. I don't need to learn to accept anything I don't want to accept in my life. I never said everything needs to be G-rated for me or that I thought that for the rest of my life, everything was going to be peaches and cream. I know how the world works. And I know that it also doesn't mean that just because you want to say something and talk about people a certain way, that means I have to accept it or lay down and take it. You are of course, free to say what you want. And I am of course, free to discuss the merits or lack of merits of it.

Well perfect the are of discussing it then and not ask men to change habits for your own personal benefit or insecurity.

[TheBigQuestion]

Verhrzn and her lackey.......I hope you are not refering to me as Verhrzn's "lackey". Especially since I am the one that orginally started this conversation because I believe Wholigan did it in response to my comments made in another post completely seperate and not at all connected to Verhrzn's beliefs. You should know me better by now that I am no one's "lackey". You should also know better then then use sour name calling to described posters.

 

I also never said that men where rapists and was not part of that conversation at all.

 

Why is it so hurtful when women ask men to pay attention to what they say about women's bodies?

 

Sure I called you a lackey. Big whoop. "Lackey" isn't an insult. The type of nonsense being spewed earlier in this thread was, however.

 

You two are cut from the same cloth: the female version of the LS beta male troupe. You hold views that I could see myself supporting to some extent or another, but the dogmatic attitude you take to expressing them destroys your message for everyone but those equally as disillusioned as you.

[joystickd]

Verhrzn and her lackey.......I hope you are not refering to me as Verhrzn's "lackey". Especially since I am the one that orginally started this conversation because I believe Wholigan did it in response to my comments made in another post completely seperate and not at all connected to Verhrzn's beliefs. You should know me better by now that I am no one's "lackey". You should also know better then then use sour name calling to described posters.

 

I also never said that men where rapists and was not part of that conversation at all.

 

Why is it so hurtful when women ask men to pay attention to what they say about women's bodies?

The social programming of women often leaves many men confused and frustrated - Los Angeles Men's Dating Advice | Examiner.com

 

This rings true for men.

[TheBigQuestion]

You used the word 'denigrating' incorrectly. I was clearly mocking him, not denigrating him. You might want to brush up on your vocab.*

 

 

*PS: That's not denigrating either. That is using sarcasm to subtly imply that you're not very bright.

 

Mocking can be a form of denigration.

 

I see you too have transitioned from being reasonable to insulting other posters. Sad, really.